An emperical proof against white privilege?

[kerou]

This is something I've been giving a lot of thought to in relation to my own race and identification

 

People say white privilege exists in the sense that being white, identifying as white or looking white gives special treatment of a higher quality to that individual.

 

However, if we take an empirical look at difference case studies where the choice of race is present, we find a very different story.

 

Biracial people have a choice as to what they are identified as. In my own case, I am half Asian (Chinese) and half white (French), as such I have the ability to identify as either Asian or White. However, I always choose identify as Asian. We see the same thing with other types of biracial people (half black, half white; half hispanic, half white); consistently, these biracial people always choose the minority side to identify as (which theoretically is the oppressed and less privileged side)

 

If white privilege existed, wouldn't it be in everyone's rational self interest to identify as white and to tote the white side up as their main identification in hopes of some off hand privilege?

 

This is not case in the majority of biracial people. And the reason why is that the minority side or culture offers a lot more benefits.

 

In my own case, I tend to identify as Asian because it offers me a lot more. I am able to have better conversations with people, people assume I am highly intelligent and have a level of competency, it gives me a certain authority on things like race issues, etc.

Part of this may be that I look very Asian for a biracial person, however my brother, who is also biracial, looks very White yet still chooses to identify as Asian when given the choice for similar reasons as outlined above.

 

Any thoughts on this? Could this be used a sound argument against self hating white people as a proof to nonexistence of white privilege?

[fractional slacker]

'White privilege' does not exist. It is a social construct. It is used by socialists AKA commies to inflict guilt on whites so that they willingly give up resources. 'White privilege' is an attempt to use Neuro-Linguistic Programming and alter reality. 

[Tyne]

That is an interesting point that I hadn't considered, but very true. I myself am half white half black/Native American and of identifying as racially mixed isn't an option, I default to identifying as black, even thou my skin is white. I was raised by my black mother, and identify with pride with the cultural legacy of her side of the family, but my white family members have contributed significantly to society as well, but get little recognition and certainly not for being white.

 

In elementary school, during the standardize testing, I marked that I was African American every time, even before I heard that I'd be scored more favorably for doing so (not sure if there's any validity to that statement. I think my father might have told me that; he is a middle school teacher in a predominantly black neighborhood.) I found out I'd have access to grants for college and have a better chance at getting hired for identifying as black.... So, at what point has looking white served me? Maybe with police interactions, but who could be certain. I'm a pretty cute chick, so I think that might trump all racial privilege I might have.

[NotDarkYet]

You are the only person who others are legally REQUIRED to discriminate against.   

 

Proof:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class

 

In the eyes of the law, white males are the lowest form of life.

 

Welcome to privilege.

[kerou]

'White privilege' does not exist. It is a social construct. It is used by socialists AKA commies to inflict guilt on whites so that they willingly give up resources. 'White privilege' is an attempt to use Neuro-Linguistic Programming and alter reality. 

I know it doesn't exist. I put this argument forward as an empirical proof that can be used in discussions to disprove white privileged to the common person.

It's similar to the wage gap empirical argument; "If women are always underpaid, why don't business men just hire all women and save 30 cents on every dollar?"

 

That is an interesting point that I hadn't considered, but very true. I myself am half white half black/Native American and of identifying as racially mixed isn't an option, I default to identifying as black, even thou my skin is white. I was raised by my black mother, and identify with pride with the cultural legacy of her side of the family, but my white family members have contributed significantly to society as well, but get little recognition and certainly not for being white.

 

In elementary school, during the standardize testing, I marked that I was African American every time, even before I heard that I'd be scored more favorably for doing so (not sure if there's any validity to that statement. I think my father might have told me that; he is a middle school teacher in a predominantly black neighborhood.) I found out I'd have access to grants for college and have a better chance at getting hired for identifying as black.... So, at what point has looking white served me? Maybe with police interactions, but who could be certain. I'm a pretty cute chick, so I think that might trump all racial privilege I might have.

And it's important to note that society and the general public will always identify you as a minority as well.

It's really hard for me to find any time where being white or identifying as white would have ever benefited me either.

[doc911]

Great point Kerou! Hadn't thought of that.

[things make sense]

I don't mean to go all SJW on fdr, but I think there is something to be said w/r to culture playing into privilege.

And I'm only speaking in generalities here. When I say Asians are more privileged in certain aspects of life, or when I say Whites are more privileged in certain aspects, I don't mean ALL Asians nor ALL Whites.

Certainly the western freedom culture has made many positive impacts to whites in general (lets forget about current wave of feminism and all that for a second). Whites are in general, live in much more civilized environment and are more privileged compared to say blacks who live in Africa who still worship witch doctors and other nonsense. Here, we can objectively point out to a trend that may  be used as evidence for the claim that Whites are more privileged than other race in certain aspects.

Another example is with the Asians who make higher salary than whites or blacks here in the US. This, I would argue is the result of Asian culture normalizing stricter parenting. (Oh god, I actually just used the word "normalize" in this context...I swear I'm not a femnazi). Anyway as a result, Asians study much harder and get higher paying jobs. You can then make an objective claim that Asians have some form of income privilege because they were born into this culture and grew up with these environmental influences.

 

Thus, the statement "'White privilege' does not exist." is wrong because not everyone is equal and some people are more privileged than others. If we look at the big picture, surely we can make generalities to extract some useful information out of them right? Do you remember Stef's example of the tall chinese person being the exception to the majority of short chinese people?

 

Yeah, come at be bros.   

[Donnadogsoth]

This is something I've been giving a lot of thought to in relation to my own race and identification

 

People say white privilege exists in the sense that being white, identifying as white or looking white gives special treatment of a higher quality to that individual.

 

However, if we take an empirical look at difference case studies where the choice of race is present, we find a very different story.

 

Biracial people have a choice as to what they are identified as. In my own case, I am half Asian (Chinese) and half white (French), as such I have the ability to identify as either Asian or White. However, I always choose identify as Asian. We see the same thing with other types of biracial people (half black, half white; half hispanic, half white); consistently, these biracial people always choose the minority side to identify as (which theoretically is the oppressed and less privileged side)

 

If white privilege existed, wouldn't it be in everyone's rational self interest to identify as white and to tote the white side up as their main identification in hopes of some off hand privilege?

 

This is not case in the majority of biracial people. And the reason why is that the minority side or culture offers a lot more benefits.

 

In my own case, I tend to identify as Asian because it offers me a lot more. I am able to have better conversations with people, people assume I am highly intelligent and have a level of competency, it gives me a certain authority on things like race issues, etc.

Part of this may be that I look very Asian for a biracial person, however my brother, who is also biracial, looks very White yet still chooses to identify as Asian when given the choice for similar reasons as outlined above.

 

Any thoughts on this? Could this be used a sound argument against self hating white people as a proof to nonexistence of white privilege?

 

I've gotten the impression over the years that non-whites are "cooler" than whites.  Black culture was all the rage when I finished high school, and my friends would imitate their dress, mannerisms, attitudes (hate the police), drugs (marijuana), and speech while listening to "cool" black rap music that encouraged the degradation of women including specifically white women ("freakazoid mutazoid white cave bitch").  So identifying as non-white, it seems, offered a benefit of "coolness" that counteracted the "white privilege" and led whites to want to escape said privilege.

 

Do you find Asian culture to be cooler than white culture?  White culture is evil/racist/ungood just by virtue of being white, after all.

[BaylorPRSer]

'White privilege' does not exist. It is a social construct. It is used by socialists AKA commies to inflict guilt on whites so that they willingly give up resources. 'White privilege' is an attempt to use Neuro-Linguistic Programming and alter reality. 

This is a pretty basic question, but I want to make sure I've got a good handle on this:  How do you or anyone else who wants to chime in define 'social construct'?  Is it anything that does not exist outside of the human mind?  This would include mathematics, morality, white privilege, property rights, etc.

[ProfessionalTeabagger]

This is definitely a blow agianst the concept of white privilege but that's all. The problem with the concept, like many concepts, is that you can't disprove them. Things like white privilege, racist, misogynist, sexist, etc are claims designed to get  people to capitulate to leftist demands or unsound arguments.  You just have to ask your self what would actually disprove something like white privilege?

There's nothing. 

[Mister Mister]

If someone says "you're soooo white" is that meant as a compliment or an insult in our culture?

[Donnadogsoth]

It used to be a Southern compliment to, in response to something creditable someone just said or did, to say, "That's white of ya'."

[fractional slacker]

This is a pretty basic question, but I want to make sure I've got a good handle on this:  How do you or anyone else who wants to chime in define 'social construct'?  Is it anything that does not exist outside of the human mind?  This would include mathematics, morality, white privilege, property rights, etc.

Good question. My take is social construct is a subset of the category of concepts. Social constructs deal specifically with concepts concerning human relations from one individual to another to any combination up to and including "society."

Social constructs are sometimes true ie more likely true than not true, and conversely sometimes false. Since social constructs are not based on an objective standard, they are subject to bias, bigotry and prejudice.  Social constructs are based in culture as opposed to philosophy.

I don't know if any of that makes sense. Let me know what you think.

[BaylorPRSer]

Good question. My take is social construct is a subset of the category of concepts. Social constructs deal specifically with concepts concerning human relations from one individual to another to any combination up to and including "society."

Social constructs are sometimes true ie more likely true than not true, and conversely sometimes false. Since social constructs are not based on an objective standard, they are subject to bias, bigotry and prejudice.  Social constructs are based in culture as opposed to philosophy.

I don't know if any of that makes sense. Let me know what you think.

"Social constructs deal specifically with concepts concerning human relations from one individual to another to any combination up to and including "society.""

 

So if we stopped here, then out of the list I gave, mathematics would be out, but property rights, white privilege would be in.

 

"Since social constructs are not based on an objective standard, they are subject to bias, bigotry and prejudice.  Social constructs are based in culture as opposed to philosophy."

 

Once we get here we would remove morality and property rights.  Am I getting it?  White privilege, thin privilege, the state ... I feel like we should mention one that most people here don't think is stupid because you said sometimes they can be true ...

[neeeel]

While I think that "white privilege" is a misleading term, is it not true that, in a country that has a "white" identity, identified as being predominantly white, that whites will prefer the company of, and employ more , people of the same race and/or culture as them, with the same belief sytems, common memes, and similar values?. When you are looking for someone to enter your life in some capacity or other, you would prefer someone of your "in group". you will likely have suspicion and dislike of the out group? Especially the more different and foreign they are? 

 

I would guess the same is true in black identified countries. 

 

You hear about studies where exactly the same CVs were used, but one with a white sounding name, and one with a foreign sounding name, and the white CVs got interviews, but the foreign ones didnt. 

 

So, isnt it likely that some sort of in group preference exists? I am not saying that its good or bad, just whether it exists.

 

Perhaps that is not what people mean by "white privilege", I dont know

[kerou]

You hear about studies where exactly the same CVs were used, but one with a white sounding name, and one with a foreign sounding name, and the white CVs got interviews, but the foreign ones didnt. 

 

 

I actually read that study a while back ago.

The way they did it was completely bogus. They would send these cookie cutter and very stale statements with the CV's.

If you were an employer reading one of the Cover Letters, it's so vague it almost seems like a scam of some sort. Put that with a weird looking name and you have something sounding like a Nigerian Prince wanting to give you money.

 

I recommend looking up that study up and seeing how ridiculously half assed their attempts at fake CV's were.