Games to play with kids

[Hamish]

I'm new to FDR (as of March) and peaceful parenting. I wasn't into spanking, but let myself get shouty when I was frustrated.

 

Stef often talks about the games and conversations he has with his daughter. One he mentioned was the objective/subjective game. My kids enjoy this (they're 7 and 9) but I'd love to get ideas from others about games to help them develop their logic, critical thinking and ethics.

 

I'm really loving learning philosophy, but I'm struggling to find ways to bring it into every day conversations with my kids.

[neeeel]

Almost anything that you play with your kids will help you to get to know them better, and they to know you. As stef says, getting down, on your hands and knees, getting dirty. So games of imagination, with toy animals, cars, dolls, etc. role playing games,( which can also involve the toy figures), also more active games, such as hide and seek, tag, just running around, being silly, wrestling, climbing, jumping. Board games and computer games can also be just as good.

 

What is it about philosophy that you are wanting to bring into every day conversations with kids? I am not sure you can get them to learn it, unless you are already using it. I mean, if you are thinking logically, expressing your thoughts and feelings rationally, then they will pick up on that. If you are being irrational, or worked up, or un-peaceful, but are trying to teach your kids to be peaceful and rational, then, I dont think that will work. 

 

So, by playing, interacting, talking with your kids, you will automatically be telling them everything you believe or know about the world. without explicitly explaining,, you will be telling them exactly how much you value them, and what values you hold. 

 

 

I guess what I am saying is, how developed are YOUR logic, critical thinking, and ethics?

[kathryn]

I've heard of one game to play with kids at the dinner table called high/low, where you ask them what was the high of their day and what was the low. Addressing the lows is supposed to be especially useful. If something bothered them during the day you can ask why and explore what happened and what they could do differently next time. Thinking about highs and lows can also help them to be more aware of their preferences. It takes a lot of agency as a kid to say, "I like this" or "I don't like this." Plus, it's a fun way to review the day and see what's going on with them.

 

Here's a link to the podcast Stef did with his daughter Izzy. They play the "Bad Philosophy Game," where they sing silly contradictory statements back and forth. It's one of my favorite things of all time.  http://www.fdrpodcasts.com/#/2634/the-bad-philosophy-show-sunday-call-in-show-february-23rd-2014

 

And here's a link to a call in about general concepts of teaching children critical thinking. It's very similar to what neeeel says above. https://board.freedomainradio.com/files/file/222-teaching-children-critical-thinking/

 

Keep in mind, if you haven't been doing these things with the kids from an early age you might get some resistance from them on playing games. Not that you shouldn't try, but I would follow their lead and ask them if they want to play beforehand. My ex is a former teacher, and he used to get really pushy about games with my niece and nephew. After we hung out with the kids, he would often be bitter the whole drive home if they didn't want to play or seemed "unappreciative" of his efforts. He wasn't listening to their feedback at all. 

[Hamish]

Thanks for your time and thoughts everyone.

 

Neeeel: I play with both of them quite often. After school and on weekends. I feel like I have a strong relationship with them both, although this is something that I feel I need to work more on as well.

 

I guess what I want to help give them the tools from the start that it has taken me this many years to discover. I want to give them the tools to avoid all the mistakes I could have avoided if I had discovered self knowledge and philosophy earlier and it feels like exercising their logical thinking on a regular basis

 

kathryn: Yes I heard the bad philosophy game early on when I started listening to fdr. Thanks for the high/low game idea. We have tried something similar before, it was more about identifying what went well in the day. But this is a good idea, I will try it out again, thanks.

 

Mellomama: Talking about movies and tv shows we watch is great. Thats a great idea and I should do it more often than I do. Do you do this after the movie or during?

 

Which post about "converting" his wife to philosophy are you talking about? I'm going through the same struggle with very little success so far.

[utopian]

You absolutely, positively, HAVE to play the game "Monopoly" with your kids. I can remember the first time I played with my family, up unto the point where everyone had all the properties. Once we reached that point, we discussed how then to win the game, and I realized exactly what a "monopoly" meant. It meant this vicious game of wheeling and dealing in order to economically destroy your opponents and eventually control all the properties. Not unlike real life.

 

I remember being a child of 7 or so, reaching this point of the game, and stating "but that's mean!" I understood at that moment exactly what was going on. I was still too young and naive to understand its real life applications. I am glad, however, I eventually put the two together.

[Hamish]

I should mention, one of the games my kids enjoy is just looking up words in the dictionary and trying to guess their meaning. I came up with this when listening to a school sucks podcast episode. In it, Brett was talking about breaking down a word for one of his students - I think it was the word autobiographical. I thought it might be fun to try getting my kids more aware of this. Plus I figure it'd help expand their vocabulary which is always helpful...

 

@utopian - thanks, that is indeed true. I've only played it with them once I think. Its such a slow game that they both lost interest before much happened. But perhaps its time to try again.

[neeeel]

In a take on your dictionary game, my family used to play this game, where one person would find a word in the dictionary that no one knew the meaning of, and everyone else had to make up a definition, making it sound plausible and "dictionary like". Everyone would write down their definition, the chooser would write down the real definition, and then read them all out ( including the real one). Everyone ( other than the chooser) then votes for the definition they think is real. If you choose the right definition, you get a point. If you choose a made up definition, the person who made up the definition gets a point. Then the dictionary passes to the next person, and they choose a word, and so on

 

We played it from when I was 6 or 7 i think, maybe a bit older, up until teens. when you are 6-7 you are probably not going to come up with good sounding definitions though.

[Jer]

In a take on your dictionary game, my family used to play this game, where one person would find a word in the dictionary that no one knew the meaning of, and everyone else had to make up a definition, making it sound plausible and "dictionary like". Everyone would write down their definition, the chooser would write down the real definition, and then read them all out ( including the real one). Everyone ( other than the chooser) then votes for the definition they think is real. If you choose the right definition, you get a point. If you choose a made up definition, the person who made up the definition gets a point. Then the dictionary passes to the next person, and they choose a word, and so on

 

We played it from when I was 6 or 7 i think, maybe a bit older, up until teens. when you are 6-7 you are probably not going to come up with good sounding definitions though.

I did the same when I was younger and now have the commercial version called Scattergories

 

$10 on amazon, use the FDR affiliate link

[Hamish]

@mellomama - great post, thanks for all those recommendations. I have a few of those games already. Big fan of carcasonne - we do play it. Its still a little tough because my 7 year old daughter doesn't quite get the strategy involved yet. But they enjoy the building aspect so in that respect its quite fun. And we play the Catan card game. I have the board game too, but have yet to play it, so perhaps this weekend I'll give it a shot.

 

@neeeel - that sounds like a great way to expand on the game, thanks.

 

@Jer - thanks for the heads up, I'll definitely look into it. I quite enjoy word games, although I'm not terribly good at them. I'm terrible at scrabble which is strange as I think I have quite a good vocabulary.

[Tyne]

Some games that involve simple math that I absolutely adored are a kid (and I hate math) are:

Mile Borne- a French card game where you race other players by adding up mile cards.

Dix Mille (aka Farkle)- all you need is six dice and a score sheet. The goal is to be the first to score 10.000.

Cribbage- I can't tell you how useful that game was for me as a child for learning addition.

i can't remember the name of this next one, but I remember the rules. Its so simple. I've taught it to lots of other kids to pass the time. Its always a lot of fun. All you need is twenty little pebbles or Cheerios or whatever is small enough to fit in your hand in a bunch of ten. Each person starts with ten pebbles. One player presents a closed hand with any amount of pebbles in it from none to all; the other player has to guess how many he has. If the number guessed is less than or more than the actual amount in the closed hand, the guesser must 'pay' the player the difference in pebbles. (i.e. If I guess 3 and the hand has 5, I pay 2. If I guess 3 and the hand has 2, I pay 1.) If he guesses exactly the right number, the player must hand over the hidden pebbles to the guesser. They take turns until one player has all the pebbles.

 

SET is a really fun thinking game, too, with lots of concentration to find the hidden patterns before the other players.

[Kurtis]

 

Settlers of Catan - BEST! Classic. Strategic, competitive and yet cooperative. It involves acquiring control of resources and utilizing them to build towns, cities and ports. Good for ages 8+ I think, and stimulating enough for adults. Groups of 3+, many opportunities to expand and grow the experience. Highly recommend. I own the family edition.

 

Carcassonne is similar in terms of using resources to develop cities, but I don't own it and have only played a few times.

 

 

+1 for Settlers and Carcassonne!

 

I do not yet have kids, but I wonder if any parents here have experimented with games of the style of charades or pictionary? 

[Kurtis]

Cranium Cadoo is another game we've enjoyed lately. It includes both pictionary and charades, as well as some cooperative and competitive elements, even making things with clay!

 

Thanks!  I forgot about Cranium

I also wonder what peoples thoughts are on video gaming with children?  

 

When I was a child, video games were an escape from reality and from my parents; that pattern continued for a while into my adult life.

However, the video games themselves were not the source of these negative aspects.

 

I no longer play video games, mostly due to the opportunity costs involved with sinking that time into them.  And yet, I could see playing again with future children.  Especially games that are good for complex problem solving, strategy, teamwork, hand/eye coordination etc.

 

Of course, all within the context of a healthy environment (just as with any other activity).

 

With the exponential growth of technology, the advances in areas such as virtual, or augmented, reality will be nothing short of mind blowing.  How cool would it be to take your kids on a VR tour of the human body at the cellular level, and then out into the cosmos to explore the macro universe?

[shirgall]

I'm going to have to stick up for role-playing games here, too, as they can get children interested in an unfolding narrative, life decisions, etc, let alone instilling empathy by wearing a lot of different people's shoes. Bonus points for funny voices, colorful miniatures and maps, and a game master that spends more time on the story than rolling the dice.

[Kurtis]

I'm going to have to stick up for role-playing games here, too, as they can get children interested in an unfolding narrative, life decisions, etc, let alone instilling empathy by wearing a lot of different people's shoes. Bonus points for funny voices, colorful miniatures and maps, and a game master that spends more time on the story than rolling the dice.

 

Great idea   

 

I like how as a family activity it can involve so many creative aspects, such as story telling, acting, imagination, art and design etc etc.   

[Hamish]

Charades is definitely a fun one. We've been doing that a lot of late and its a lot of fun.

 

Regarding video games... I don't have a solid opinion on that one yet. I let both my kids play, but we agree on a set timeframe (which works well most of the time). They've been through a few phases of games they like, although currently they've been in the minecraft phase for quite some time.

 

Although recently my son has been getting into "scratch" which is a neat little graphical programming environment for kids. My daughter is interested too, but she's still a little young to grok the logic.

 

For christmas, we're going to try out a wii console. Not sure whether this is a good idea or not - but I've made the promise so its too late to back out now!

[Diki]

A spontaneous game developed between me and my son recently where we try to name all the animals that must have been on Noah's ark (I'm not sure why, but he talks about that story a lot). It starts off with my son coming to me and saying "Noah must have had 2 Rhinos" (for example) and we then take turns to name pairs of animals, every so often I ask him to guess how big the ark must be at this point - this is the part he really likes because he gets to use his imagination - "The size of my school", "The size of a jumbo jet", "The size of the moon" etc.

[tasmlab]

I taught my 7 and 10 year old to play poker.  We bet money (change) and they/we have a blast.

 

I homeschool, so we get a little math in during the game.

 

The Wii U is superb.  Go for it.

[AccuTron]

On Steam, there is a game called UberStrike.   Point One, go sign up, it's free.  

 

A few years ago, it was FB's #1 game.  Players from over 60 countries.

 

Created about 2006 by a small independent company, a first person shooter designed for youngsters, so no gore, blood, heads flying, or gnarly zombies (except for one zombie costume).  No goals, achievement levels, or plot.  No creature avatars except players.  Just reflexes and cunning, pure skill.  Excellent gameplay.  Forums noted for good mind and heart.  

 

Somewhere in the last couple of years, being FB's number one, they did a game upgrade which included a major laundry list of bug fixes and new features.  Alas, one bug was introduced:  

You couldn't enter a game.  

 

You'd click on a game, and go prepare veggies for dinner.  If it let you in, you'd click on a team, and go fix rice.  You might then be able to play with dinner, but if a game glitch meant leaving the game, start over.

 

Pretty disastrous, hey?  That would kill outright many ventures.

The attendance only dropped by about half.  

There were millions of players worldwide who would make dinner or paint the bathroom waiting to get into a game.  

That is devotion.

Come see why we are devoted.  (No mercy, your learning curve will be thunderous.  Yet very nice people.)

 

 

I'm also making this pitch for this reason:  

 

The browser-based game fixed that bug after months(!), and was slowly recovering, then a swarm of game play hackers hit.  It became difficult to play, attendance plummeted, which made it impossible.  (The company CMUNE is stretched trying to keep up with new games for other platforms.)

 

Then the switch to Steam.  The hacker problem dropped dramatically.  They still show up, they are reported.  It's minor, and there are other games to join.  But the attendance is low.  So I'm asking anyone here who thinks they have WASD skills to test them to the limit, and tell your friends.

 

For children of all ages.

 

Thank you.

[kathryn]

According to The Secrets of Happy Families just going over the day with your kids, either at the dinner table or as you tuck them into bed, has huge benefits. Doing a quick review and asking, "What did we do today?" can improve memory and foster a sense of self.

 

And according to research on attachment styles one of the markers of security in children and young adults is the ability to talk about their relationship with their parents coherently. (I found that information in Attached.) I think having practice comfortably talking about day to day activities would improve a child's security as well. That's one of the big things that is accomplished in therapy, the ability to confidently discuss personal issues and know how you feel about them. 

 

Not exactly a game, but games like rose and torn or high/low could facilitate that kind of bonding. 

I taught my 7 and 10 year old to play poker.  We bet money (change) and they/we have a blast.

 

I homeschool, so we get a little math in during the game.

 

The Wii U is superb.  Go for it.

 

I love that you play poker with your kids! Poker requires a lot of skills like how to read people, making quick decisions, being cool under pressure, and even how to be charismatic. Very useful qualities to have in the job market. Plus there's the math too.

[coffeebean81387]

One thing that I like to do with my daughter is cover Latin roots with her. I'll pick some words and we'll break them apart and I'll see if she can guess the meaning of bigger words based on their roots.  Ex. "Transport" Trans meaning across and port meaning to carry. I covered this one in the car and related it to how the car is transporting us. The car is "carrying" us "across" a bridge. I found it useful and fun when I learned it and hope that it helps her have a stronger grasp of language and an easier time in school.

[kathryn]

In "Confessions of an Anti-Feminist," Stef mentions a game he plays with his daughter called "Chase the Brain" where they track back where their thoughts came from. He mentions it at around timestamp 9:30.   

 

"Oh you were thinking of this truck, well what were you thinking of before that? And you go back until you can't remember. Whoever can remember back the farthest [wins the game.] That teaches self-knowledge. Where do my thoughts come from?" 

 

 

 

[regevdl]

I've heard of one game to play with kids at the dinner table called high/low, where you ask them what was the high of their day and what was the low. Addressing the lows is supposed to be especially useful. If something bothered them during the day you can ask why and explore what happened and what they could do differently next time. Thinking about highs and lows can also help them to be more aware of their preferences. It takes a lot of agency as a kid to say, "I like this" or "I don't like this." Plus, it's a fun way to review the day and see what's going on with them.

 

Here's a link to the podcast Stef did with his daughter Izzy. They play the "Bad Philosophy Game," where they sing silly contradictory statements back and forth. It's one of my favorite things of all time.  http://www.fdrpodcasts.com/#/2634/the-bad-philosophy-show-sunday-call-in-show-february-23rd-2014

 

And here's a link to a call in about general concepts of teaching children critical thinking. It's very similar to what neeeel says above. https://board.freedomainradio.com/files/file/222-teaching-children-critical-thinking/

 

Keep in mind, if you haven't been doing these things with the kids from an early age you might get some resistance from them on playing games. Not that you shouldn't try, but I would follow their lead and ask them if they want to play beforehand. My ex is a former teacher, and he used to get really pushy about games with my niece and nephew. After we hung out with the kids, he would often be bitter the whole drive home if they didn't want to play or seemed "unappreciative" of his efforts. He wasn't listening to their feedback at all. 

 

I do the 'high and low' at the dinner table.  We love it.  Another thing I noticed I did and realized it came from imprinting on my parents and adults around me growing up is drilling the child with questions and thinking that is a conversation.  How was your day?  Who did you play with?  What did you do? etc.  

 

I catch myself doing it from time to time so I have to be diligent with myself.  instead I may ask, 'how was your day' and listen to their response.  If they don't elaborate beyond 'good' or 'ok' or 'i don't know'.  lol  Then I say, " would you like to hear about my day?"  And then if they agree I share a story about somethign that happened or a thought that I had just to get the ball rolling.  I found this is a more natural way to talk to any human being, oif course but for some reason, most adults (and I was guilty of it) we tend to not speak with way with kids but rather pepper them with questions trying to elicit a conversation that way and it usually shuts kids down which frustrates the parents.  

 

Also, when we do the 'high and low' at dinner, sometimes the kids don't have much to say...but at least it gets them thinking.  Then, my hubby and I will lay down with them before bed.  No TV, no electronics, etc and either talk, sing or tell stories or just sit quietly.  Many times, this is when their memories of the day will come up and they will share. 

 

So, also keep reasonable expectations when using these games and tools.  

[kathryn]

I do the 'high and low' at the dinner table.  We love it.  Another thing I noticed I did and realized it came from imprinting on my parents and adults around me growing up is drilling the child with questions and thinking that is a conversation.  How was your day?  Who did you play with?  What did you do? etc.  

 

I catch myself doing it from time to time so I have to be diligent with myself.  instead I may ask, 'how was your day' and listen to their response.  If they don't elaborate beyond 'good' or 'ok' or 'i don't know'.  lol  Then I say, " would you like to hear about my day?"  And then if they agree I share a story about somethign that happened or a thought that I had just to get the ball rolling.  I found this is a more natural way to talk to any human being, oif course but for some reason, most adults (and I was guilty of it) we tend to not speak with way with kids but rather pepper them with questions trying to elicit a conversation that way and it usually shuts kids down which frustrates the parents.  

 

Also, when we do the 'high and low' at dinner, sometimes the kids don't have much to say...but at least it gets them thinking.  Then, my hubby and I will lay down with them before bed.  No TV, no electronics, etc and either talk, sing or tell stories or just sit quietly.  Many times, this is when their memories of the day will come up and they will share. 

 

So, also keep reasonable expectations when using these games and tools.  

 

I love this. Never forcing the kids to share, only modeling good communication skills. Really beautiful. 

 

Keeping expectations in mind is so important. Frustration usually arises when reality doesn't align with expectations. It could also help to remember the purpose of tools and games, which is to increase happiness and connection with your child. The priority isn't the game the game itself, but the end result - fun and engagement. 

 

You sound like an awesome parent! Thanks for sharing! 

[Lotus Flowery]

I'm loving thins. I am so glad to have a community of peaceful parents with whom to share ideas, it's just priceless! 

 

Going to check out the podcasts, thanks for posting, Kathryn and others.

[Libertyblues]

Hey there everyone!

 

I'm browsing a bit to find parenting tips for fathers of 2 year old sons and I was just wondering, why isn't there a fdr-wiki? I did a search and couldn't find anything on that..especially as a dad I wish a had a step-through program by age I could follow as my sons gets older. A sorted place for tips on things like games, activities, routines, exercise, dangers, health, things to look out for, diet, kindergarten, school, and work or training etc..