Why men find thinner women attractive

[brucethecollie]

Unhealthy gut flora are the likely culprit. Did you read Brain Maker? Genetic determinism, in the large majority, is a myth. Genetics and family history may predispose a patient to obesity or another illness, but at the end of the day, a person only gets obese, has a coronary blockage, or falls ill to cancer due to sub-optimal nutrition and health.

 

It would be nice if we could get a Health & Wellness subforum, but my efforts so far have been unsuccessful.

 

 

I believe you are correct about gut flora being the culprit.  I'm midway through Brain Maker and loving it!  It's true that a person gets obese and all that follows, but it's something we see a whole lot sooner in other groups.  The same way IQ seems to be passed through ethnic groups genetically and environmentally, so does predisposition to certain physical ailments.

 

Maybe we if keep talking health and wellness, the subforum will be created lol

 

 

 

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure what you mean or why this would be. Everyone has a similar level of access to this information. I beat many over the head with it and they still go on living unhealthy lifestyles because they have an emotional attachment to obesity and sloth, much like the ethical vegans in this community.

 

 

Wheat has been a main staple of European people for a long time and people from other places like Africa and Latin America have more recently been introduced to it.  I have a few doctors who believe that the predisposition to say, diabetes and hypertension stems from this.  There are others like William Wolcott and Dr. Mercola who believe it as well. My ancestors ate a lot of fruits, vegetables, beans, and corn.  Growing up I ate wheat as a staple grain in the US and I quickly developed insulin resistance and high cholesterol and high blood pressure (as an active teenager!) whereas many people eat this way and they don't suffer these effects for many many more years.  It's hard to maintain your health when the hits come so much earlier, particularly when you are still a kid who doesn't have control over your diet.  Interestingly, I started eating like my ancestors (minus the corn because of the sugar it contains) (I happen to know where my ancestors are from) and my high blood pressure, cholesterol, triglycerides, and weight all dropped dramatically!  My doctors were stunned. There is an epidemic of diabetes among very young people in the ethnic groups I mentioned because they have less of the evolutionary response for wheat and even refined oils.  Many can't even handle dairy.  Couple this with more poverty in these groups and the effects are disastrous.  I've been trying to help others see the light.  If you are from one of these groups, even your kids need to have more carefully selected diets. Other kids seem to get away with the standard american diet through childhood but these kids have much less ability to handle that diet before health falls away.  Everyone in my family who has moved to the US has learned this the hard way it seems.  No pasta for us. I have italian friends who are 91 and 96 who eat pasta every day! How does that work for them?

 

 

With a healthy metabolism, it does not matter how active you are in the moment. They body partitions fuel for the cells and mitochondria as needed.

 

What do you define as exercise, and what do you do daily? I have followed a ketogenic diet for over a year, and I have no problems performing physical work on an empty stomach. Some days I don't eat much of anything. Saturday, I'm going to start a week long fast to celebrate the change in season.

 

This is where you and I differ, but I am extremely insulin sensitive, meaning that if I eat 2.5 kilograms of bananas my body wants to go do something with the resulting glucose that is being processed by the liver and sent to my skeletal muscles. Nutritional behavior drives activity levels, and then there's a feedback loop in the other direction. If you have just completed a savage workout during the day, chances are that the body will want copious amounts of energy later.

 

We need to stop looking at health as calories in/calories out, and begin to see the body as a living system of organisms and organic molecules working together in concert.

 

Check out Gary Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories or Why We Get Fat if you have not already. These books have a permanent place in my home library.

 

I love Gary Taubes! He too, is in my library.  I tried a ketogenic diet (which is very hard with my disease because with what I have, blood sugar fluctuations happen extremely quickly (due to something as simple as excitement or a headache) and coupled with ketones leads to ketoacidosis, which leads to death rather quickly.  So not that I cannot do it, it's very challenging on a minute by minute basis.  It also created some poor blood test results, which could be due to the lack of foods ideal for my metabolic type since I also had low energy eating that way (I gave it four months-maybe that wasn't enough time).  I think it's very good for many people though.  Nevertheless I avoid grains and sugar and eat as close to a ketogenic diet as I can.  If people just went halfway they'd see some major results.  In fact, I give books to health coaching clients and Gary Taubes is usually one of the authors I make sure to give out.  Plus, he posts his test results online-I wish other health promoters did that.  I know I do.

 

 

I am so glad that you are not deceased! You seem like a great mother and role model for your children. I would love to chat with you some day soon.

 

I wake up every day pain and stress free, excited to meet the world. I don't need a medical professional to tell me what to do to obtain health.

 

I am so confident in what I'm doing that I don't have health insurance. If it were possible to get coverage only for accidents and injuries while not paying into Obamacare largess, I would do it. Living in Colorado, I am far more likely to fracture a bone or lacerate myself on a sharp rock than develop any metabolic diseases.

 

I am the picture of perfect health. How's that for a healthy attitude?

 

 

Thanks so much.  You are doing fantastic and it's inspiring.  It would be great to get health insurance for accidents-many people like you would jump right into that.  My husband is like you, thrives on a ketogenic diet and is fit and he too would appreciate that option.  He has only been to the doctor a few times in his whole life-for smashing his finger with a tool and for 2 other work related accidents.  The money that could have been saved! Arghh!

[J. D. Stembal]

 

Wheat has been a main staple of European people for a long time and people from other places like Africa and Latin America have more recently been introduced to it.  I have a few doctors who believe that the predisposition to say, diabetes and hypertension stems from this.  There are others like William Wolcott and Dr. Mercola who believe it as well. My ancestors ate a lot of fruits, vegetables, beans, and corn.  Growing up I ate wheat as a staple grain in the US and I quickly developed insulin resistance and high cholesterol and high blood pressure (as an active teenager!) whereas many people eat this way and they don't suffer these effects for many many more years.  It's hard to maintain your health when the hits come so much earlier, particularly when you are still a kid who doesn't have control over your diet.  Interestingly, I started eating like my ancestors (minus the corn because of the sugar it contains) (I happen to know where my ancestors are from) and my high blood pressure, cholesterol, triglycerides, and weight all dropped dramatically!  My doctors were stunned. There is an epidemic of diabetes among very young people in the ethnic groups I mentioned because they have less of the evolutionary response for wheat and even refined oils.  Many can't even handle dairy.  Couple this with more poverty in these groups and the effects are disastrous.  I've been trying to help others see the light.  If you are from one of these groups, even your kids need to have more carefully selected diets. Other kids seem to get away with the standard american diet through childhood but these kids have much less ability to handle that diet before health falls away.  Everyone in my family who has moved to the US has learned this the hard way it seems.  No pasta for us. I have italian friends who are 91 and 96 who eat pasta every day! How does that work for them?

 

...

 

I love Gary Taubes! He too, is in my library.  I tried a ketogenic diet (which is very hard with my disease because with what I have, blood sugar fluctuations happen extremely quickly (due to something as simple as excitement or a headache) and coupled with ketones leads to ketoacidosis, which leads to death rather quickly.  So not that I cannot do it, it's very challenging on a minute by minute basis.  It also created some poor blood test results, which could be due to the lack of foods ideal for my metabolic type since I also had low energy eating that way (I gave it four months-maybe that wasn't enough time).  I think it's very good for many people though.  Nevertheless I avoid grains and sugar and eat as close to a ketogenic diet as I can.  If people just went halfway they'd see some major results.  In fact, I give books to health coaching clients and Gary Taubes is usually one of the authors I make sure to give out.  Plus, he posts his test results online-I wish other health promoters did that.  I know I do.

 

...

 

Thanks so much.  You are doing fantastic and it's inspiring.  It would be great to get health insurance for accidents-many people like you would jump right into that.  My husband is like you, thrives on a ketogenic diet and is fit and he too would appreciate that option.  He has only been to the doctor a few times in his whole life-for smashing his finger with a tool and for 2 other work related accidents.  The money that could have been saved! Arghh!

 

I so very much would like to speak with you about diabetes and ask a lot of questions regarding metabolic disorders and health coaching, if you do not mind, of course. Please give me a call some time. My phone number is 847-219-1105.

 

Pizza, pasta, and breads were staples for me until I was 33. I have never had a diabetic condition, but I can tell that eating a lot of pasta or pizza gives me diarrhea in a matter of a day or two. This is evidence enough that my body cannot handle wheat.

 

My ancestors are reportedly from all over Europe - United Kingdom, Italy, and former Yugoslavia. Even so, decades of exposure to semi-dwarf wheat, through food and alcohol sources, have ravaged my body and gut bacteria. Probiotics are a must in my diet in order to heal and stabilize any lingering imbalances, but I'm trying to find cheaper ways to source natural health foods (i.e. fermenting them at home).

 

While people from Asia, North and South America may have a more extreme sensitivity to wheat products, it is very clear to me that even if your ancestors hailed from Europe, eating modern wheat products is unhealthy for any human being.

 

Put another way, there is little to no white privilege for eating wheat.

 

P.S. I successfully derailed another thread!

[shirgall]

Derailed or not, did you really mean to post your phone number?

[AncapFTW]

I dated a woman who went to crossfit three times a week for over a year, and she had an exceedingly high sex drive. She raped me when I started refusing sex.

1) So, exercise can turn you into a rapist?  Sounds like a good reason to NOT work out too much.

 

2) I know it may sound like I'm attacking you, but have you concidered that maybe your additude towards sex is the result of this trama?

 

http://www.researchconsultation.com/InformationArticlesonMentalHealthProblems_05.asp

 

• In support of these findings, Schwartz (1993) reported that some victims exhibit Sexual Compulsivity as a primary symptom of PTSD.  These victims are hypersexual and experience bingeing and addiction to sex.  Schwartz explains that during the course of development, children who have been sexually abused view the compulsive event as natural sexual behavior.  During adulthood, these people are compelled to reenact these behaviors and find them pleasurable but are also ashamed of them.  These victims also experience an endorphin release (resulting in a "high") due to the flashbacks that occur when practicing these behaviors, thus perpetuating the addiction.

I just thought of it because when my parents were foster parents there was a 15 year old girl who, because she was molested, kept trying to seduce her 30-something foster father.  It got so bad that they had to move her to a different home.

[jgib]

I always find this an interesting topic. My weight has always been a challenge for me.

 

Active in sports from a young age. Mainly ran track in high school and played BB in college. Very active after college and a competetive equestrian my whole life. Still I have never been what is considered thin. No wheat for me, I am intolerant, preservatives can give me head aches so little to no processed foods. Whole foods make me feel best so that is what I try to base all my meals around.....

 

I have a thyroid issue that seems to be genetic as all the women in my family have it. As the years progress it is more of a challenge to keep my weight at what I am comfortable with, which would not be considered thin by many standards.

 

I am healthy, active but not thin.....I think many things need to be taken into consideration when considering health.

 

Now attraction, I believe, is very much in the eye of the beholder. I find someone much more attractive when I get to know them.....or not as, sometimes is the case.

[Guest Gee]

Apologies for the combo breaker, but has this been proposed?

 

Thin = Self control.

Self control = Denial of short term desire for long term gain.

Denial of short term desire for long term gain = Higher chance of fidelity.

Higher chance of fidelity = Lower parental uncertainty.

Lower parental certainty = more attractive.

[jgib]

Apologies for the combo breaker, but has this been proposed?

 

Thin = Self control.

Self control = Denial of short term desire for long term gain.

Denial of short term desire for long term gain = Higher chance of fidelity.

Higher chance of fidelity = Lower parental uncertainty.

Lower parental certainty = more attractive.

This made me smile. Most of the thin, attractive women I have know definitely don't seem to follow this at all.

[AccuTron]

 

... inflammatory vegetable oils, grains, and sugars. ...

Since a year ago, I've lost a few waistline inches and all surplus fat due to simply cutting out some foods. (Exercise was moderate or even lessened; I've come to believe that weight loss and exercise are not strongly correlated unless it's pretty extensive.)

 

Over time, I became much more aware, that those foods listed above will make me ill.  Yucky feeling overall, possibly gastric distress.  I find myself much less eager for grains.

[jgib]

"Check out Gary Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories or Why We Get Fat if you have not already. These books have a permanent place in my home library."

 

I plan on looking for these books and also looking into improving my gut flora.....I do it for my horses why not for me?

[AccuTron]

" much like the ethical vegans in this community."

 

 

I don't understand the meaning here.

[ra86]

Fitness and health are one and the same, actually. You cannot have one without the other, at least not for very long. That's one of the myths that I am attempting to dispel here.

 

I'm following the definition implied in the linked article. Thin simply means not fat. I can empathize with why Accutron would want to use different definitions such as curvy and blubbery (I don't see the difference between the two), as these words don't sound as mean as fat. Essentially, there is tone policing happening here.

 

I appreciate that the thread has moved on a bit since this post, but you still haven't provided evidence to substantiate this initial claim. If you could show your full (syllogistic) train of thought, that'd be appreciated. The biggest step here is defining 'fitness' clearly, so that people can be easily categorised, in a non-tautological way. (ie, Jake does Crossfit 4 days a week, but can't be said to be fit, because he just found out he has leukaemia). If you could also define health, we'll be able to see if this adds up. 

 

Then substantiate it with peer-reviewed journal articles. In particular, you'd have to demonstrate that people who fall under your definition of 'fit' (which, going by your other posts, appears to be mostly reliant on exercise) can't develop ill-health, as you'll already have defined above. 

 

As for your second statement, to say that, "thin simply means not fat", is a pretty silly thing to say, considering thin <--> fat is a continuum, with varying cut-off points, depending on which particular organisation(s)/expert(s) you reference. So your statement, while no doubt fun to say, hasn't actually progressed the conversation at all.

[J. D. Stembal]

Derailed or not, did you really mean to post your phone number?

 

It's no longer going to be active in 90 days, so why not?

I appreciate that the thread has moved on a bit since this post, but you still haven't provided evidence to substantiate this initial claim.

 

Can a person be healthy without exercise? The answer is no. I do enough reading on my own, and invite you to read the peer-reviewed journals, whatever they may be.

 

I'm amused that you use the hypothetical example of the cross-fitter who gets cancer to dismiss my thesis wholesale. It sounds very familiar to Stefan's assertion that he was simply unlucky to be stricken with lymphoma, as he characterizes himself as a healthy and active man, sometimes lifting weights during his podcasts.

 

I've got good news for everyone. Healthy people don't develop full blown cancer. The body's immune system is designed to suppress it before it is ever a problem. It's a symptom of metabolic disease, which has its roots in chronic high blood sugar levels.

 

I'd rather achieve knowledge regarding health through personal experience, and empirical observation. Check out my progress pictures from today on Facebook. Do I look unhealthy or unfit to you?

 

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009235102316

 

"Bigger, smarter, faster, stronger." - J.D. Stembal

"Check out Gary Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories or Why We Get Fat if you have not already. These books have a permanent place in my home library."

 

I plan on looking for these books and also looking into improving my gut flora.....I do it for my horses why not for me?

 

Making kombucha tea is enjoyable and worthwhile. It saved my ass.

 

 

Yogurt, kefir, sauerkraut, kimchee, pickles, and other fermented foods will help repopulate your gut with healthy bacteria. Recently, I bartered my knowledge for brewing kombucha and a SCOBY for this fermentation jar. What a deal!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheFifthApe]

I'd rather achieve knowledge regarding health through personal experience, and empirical observation. Check out my progress pictures from today on Facebook. Do I look unhealthy or unfit to you?

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009235102316

 

I thought I was the only one here with a Kombucha obsession. 

 

Interesting how you liken yourself to a pornstar's penis... (on your FB post).

 

But sure you don't really look unfit, although I don't know how fast you can run or how much you can bench press and etc.

But do you look healthy? Health is largely implicit (once you are of normal BMI), so one cannot precisely answer that question solely based on a single photo.

 

Have you heard of Furious Pete?

[J. D. Stembal]

I thought I was the only one here with a Kombucha obsession. 

 

Interesting how you liken yourself to a pornstar's penis... (on your FB post).

 

But sure you don't really look unfit, although I don't know how fast you can run or how much you can bench press and etc.

But do you look healthy? Health is largely implicit (once you are of normal BMI), so one cannot precisely answer that question solely based on a single photo.

 

Have you heard of Furious Pete?

 

Yes, he's a weightlifter, bodybuilder, and competitive eater as I understand it.

 

BMI, as it has been often stated here, is largely a useless metric for determining health outcomes. I don't intend to precisely answer that question with one photo. If you met me in person, you would see that there is something to what I am saying in this thread. You can tell a person's relative health just by examining them for a few minutes with your eyes. It's called empirical observation.

 

"Veiny like a pornstar's penis" was humor if you were confused.

 

I'd love to chat about kombucha sometime. I'm helping a new friend of mine, Jess, get into homebrewing.

 

P.S. My benchpress is unimpressive (~175 for a one rep max last I checked) and I don't usually like running (I injured my foot a month ago doing just that), but I got my Merrell Trail Gloves in today, and I want to complete the Leadville 100 next season.

[TheFifthApe]

Yes, he's a weightlifter, bodybuilder, and competitive eater as I understand it.

 

BMI, as it has been often stated here, is largely a useless metric for determining health outcomes. I don't intend to precisely answer that question with one photo. If you met me in person, you would see that there is something to what I am saying in this thread. You can tell a person's relative health just by examining them for a few minutes with your eyes. It's called empirical observation.

 

"Veiny like a pornstar's penis" was humor if you were confused.

 

I'd love to chat about kombucha sometime. I'm helping a new friend of mine, Jess, get into homebrewing.

 

By the way I agree with a lot of what you said especially with regards to wheat, but I was simply adding to the discussion, no need to be rude by implying that I am dumb. I know what empirical observation is and I wasn't confused by your humor.

 

If I never heard of Furious Pete and I saw him at my gym, I would say he looks healthy, but I would be wrong. He has been diagnosed with cancer... twice. So I disagree with health being purely observational and prefer measurements such as blood tests, MRI scans, and etc.

 

BMI measurements lacks integrity because it can be over-generalized (bodybuilders are overweight), but it is not 100% useless because it can help spot things like being underweight.

 

I do have one question about homebrewing Kombucha if you don't mind. Does it taste better than the organic ones they sell at Wholefoods? If so, I'm sold!

[J. D. Stembal]

By the way I agree with a lot of what you said especially with regards to wheat, but I was simply adding to the discussion, no need to be rude by implying that I am dumb. I know what empirical observation is and I wasn't confused by your humor.

 

Please explain further how I managed to accidentally offend thee.

 

If I never heard of Furious Pete and I saw him at my gym, I would say he looks healthy, but I would be wrong. He has been diagnosed with cancer... twice. So I disagree with health being purely observational and prefer measurements such as blood tests, MRI scans, and etc.

 

I mentioned that he was a competitive eater, and before this he was anorexic. He likely eats like a garbage disposal now that he is a bodybuilder, meaning any processed piece of inflammatory food he can get his hot hands on. Cancer is not a surprising diagnosis.

 

 

I have no issue with bodybuilding, but I endeavor to eat clean, which simply means low-inflammatory, high-fat foods. I don't always succeed in sticking to the path, but at least I am mindful of how my body reacts to the products that I consume.

 

I keep a log of everything I eat, bowel movements, sleep, blood glucose and ketones, and my exercise. I used to keep track of it on Facebook, but then I realized that it was way too much data, and no one gives a shit but me.

 

 

I do have one question about homebrewing Kombucha if you don't mind. Does it taste better than the organic ones they sell at Wholefoods? If so, I'm sold!

 

Store-bought kombucha must be pasteurized per FDA/USDA regulations, and therefore, lacks pro-biotic value unless the bugs are added in later, but then why spend the money of a beverage that may or may not be efficacious to drink? Also, most kombuchas on the shelf are way too sweet for my tastes. I enjoy the sourness and complex flavors of my own brews, plus I get to add in whichever herbs I desire to help my metabolism - licorice root, orange peel, ginger root, ginseng, ashwagandha, and many others are currently in my stable of naturopathic herbal remedies.

 

Kombucha will taste as interesting as your imagination allows.

 

I could go into further detail about all of this, but it would well and truly derail the thread, and we can't have that!

 

 

[rosencrantz]

I am pretty sceptical of any claims that blame one specific food or diet for the formation of cancer. Even if there was a valid claim it would be buried among thousands of bogus studies. It's easy to produce studies that show that your choice of diet is the best one while others inevitably lead to an early and gruesome death. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2012/11/27/ajcn.112.047142.abstract

[J. D. Stembal]

I am pretty sceptical of any claims that blame one specific food or diet for the formation of cancer. Even if there was a valid claim it would be buried among thousands of bogus studies. It's easy to produce studies that show that your choice of diet is the best one while others inevitably lead to an early and gruesome death. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2012/11/27/ajcn.112.047142.abstract

 

Skepticism is a great quality to have!

 

I've found that talking to the elderly and observing what health problems they have, if any, and asking a lot of questions corroborates the current science that supports health.

 

There is not any specific food to blame for the formation of cancer. It's a byproduct of chronic inflammation.

 

Cancer is a symptom of metabolic disorder, meaning that a person with a healthy metabolism would have an immune system that suppresses (kills) cells that show signs of damaged mitochondria before they start fermenting instead of respiring.

 

If you would like to know more about metabolic disorder, Google the search topic "Syndrome X" or "Metabolic Disorder".

 

Universally, this disorder is caused by chronic systemic inflammation which is associated with high average blood glucose levels. Fat people show signs of inflammation and are suffering from metabolic disease. Eating excess carbohydrates leads to higher blood glucose levels. This should be very obvious and clear by now, and this information is not buried by "bogus studies". Everyone knows that being fat is unhealthy in the long term, but now we know why that is.

 

Here's a related video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEmSgoem6UYt=11:00

[rosencrantz]

Cancer is a symptom of metabolic disorder, meaning that a person with a healthy metabolism would have an immune system that suppresses (kills) cells that show signs of damaged mitochondria before they start fermenting instead of respiring.

 

How would you test this hypothesis and make it mono-factoral?

[J. D. Stembal]

How would you test this hypothesis and make it mono-factoral?

 

How would you test it?

 

I test my hypothesis by trying different behaviors and seeing how they work for me. You know, Bro-science.

 

As an aside, there has never been a government-funded clinical trial on the link between metabolic disease, obesity, and cancer because they defund the trials before any conclusion can be reached regarding cancer.

 

See here: http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/obesity/obesity-fact-sheet#q13

 

However, observational studies indicate the weight loss (read: body fat loss) correlates with lower rates of cancer.

[rosencrantz]

How would you test it?

 

 

I would pick a lot of rats, form cohorts and feed each cohort a different diet, and then do an epidemiology.

 

I test my hypothesis by trying different behaviors and seeing how they work for me. You know, Bro-science.

 

In this case Bro-science = best science.

 

As an aside, there has never been a government-funded clinical trial on the link between metabolic disease, obesity, and cancer because they defund the trials before any conclusion can be reached regarding cancer.

 

 That makes sense. People who die in the 60s have only paid into the system while getting little back. Profit for the government. Keep the livestock alive to pay taxes and when they become unproductive make sure they die.

[ra86]

Can a person be healthy without exercise? The answer is no. I do enough reading on my own, and invite you to read the peer-reviewed journals, whatever they may be.

 

I'm amused that you use the hypothetical example of the cross-fitter who gets cancer to dismiss my thesis wholesale. It sounds very familiar to Stefan's assertion that he was simply unlucky to be stricken with lymphoma, as he characterizes himself as a healthy and active man, sometimes lifting weights during his podcasts.

 

I've got good news for everyone. Healthy people don't develop full blown cancer. The body's immune system is designed to suppress it before it is ever a problem. It's a symptom of metabolic disease, which has its roots in chronic high blood sugar levels.

 

I'd rather achieve knowledge regarding health through personal experience, and empirical observation. Check out my progress pictures from today on Facebook. Do I look unhealthy or unfit to you?

 

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009235102316

 

"Bigger, smarter, faster, stronger." - J.D. Stembal

 

 

 

You're being intentionally evasive. You made a really simple statement, which I'm asking you to substantiate: Fitness and health are one and the same, actually.

 

This is a philosophy forum, where people should be willing to show their working. If you don't want to substantiate your claims with something more valuable than anecdote, then you can't expect anybody else to believe you, and the following question should absolutely be ringing in your ears: how do I know what I know?

 

As somebody who's very health-conscious, and has been involved in crossfit, a couple of endurance events, martial arts, olympic lifting, (very) basic acrobatics, yoga, rugby, etc. over the years, I agree that what I define as 'fitness' promotes vitality in life, and massively increased function. Does that mean that the fact that I don't have any medical complaints proves that my own training and diet means I can't get cancer? No, that would be unscientific.

 

Further, you still haven't defined 'healthy' and 'fit', as requested (and required, if we're to evaluate your claim), so answering your final questions is pretty meaningless. But since you asked:

 

I can't see any symptoms of ill-health from looking at your body, as somebody with zero medical training (beyond first aid). But obviously, people with a similar physique to yours have died from cancer, and any other number of serious conditions. So I don't think that's a relevant question.

 

Do you look fit? You haven't defined fit. I have my own standards for fitness for men, which I think demonstrate a decent level of athletic ability and preparedness, such as minimum 2x bodyweight back squat and deadlift for 5, at least bodyweight power clean > front squat > OHP (separate movements for the OHP, but thruster is still a decent standard, as it shows integrated movement, which is probably more valuable than strength). While size does not equal strength, and I'm not trying to be judgemental here, but I haven't met many people with your build who can perform these. I'm guessing you're around 70-75kg? So that would be 140-150kg backsquat and deadlift for 5. I'm also a big fan of a strong core being an indication of some athletic performance, so L-hangs for 60+s, German hangs for some shoulder mobility, etc. 

 

Cardio is obviously much harder to estimate, short of measuring VO2 max. And then what good is a solid VO2 max without mobility and the requisite neurological training to perform at some level? That's why I tend to have standards based on function, as that's what fitness is for me. As a crossfitter, I presume you have quite similar standards. In terms of your own fitness, I obviously can't estimate your cardio at all from looking at you.

[J. D. Stembal]

Getting back to the original topic. Why haven't these fat wives been divorced yet?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDN2kwSVKXk

[shirgall]

Getting back to the original topic. Why haven't these fat wives been divorced yet?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDN2kwSVKXk

 

Commitments are to more than just aesthetics... http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/through-thick-and-thin.html

[AccuTron]

Getting back to the original topic. Why haven't these fat wives been divorced yet?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDN2kwSVKXk

Oh, oh, an easy question for these forums:  Why aren't they divorced?--GUNS OF THE STATE!!!

[AccuTron]

Commitments are to more than just aesthetics... http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/through-thick-and-thin.html

 

I know a guy who married a good looking and apparently civil-tongued female.  After THE GUNS OF THE STATE made it official, she eats like a pregnant lumberjack nonstop, and is now easily over 300lb.  And with a sharp tongue.  

 

It's not "just" aesthetics.  Health is trashed.  A middle finger is given to the husband overall (is it fun being seen together in public with "the hog"?).  Snacks matter more than the marriage or the husband's happiness, not to mention her own health -- and who's gonna be responsible for shoving her fat thighs on and off the potty when she can't walk anymore?  A guy makes a commitment to one person, then she changes into a drastically different person.  That's shredding the contract.  That's buying land in Florida, then finding it's underwater.

[shirgall]

I know a guy who married a good looking and apparently civil-tongued female.  After THE GUNS OF THE STATE made it official, she eats like a pregnant lumberjack nonstop, and is now easily over 300lb.  And with a sharp tongue.  

 

It's not "just" aesthetics.  Health is trashed.  A middle finger is given to the husband overall (is it fun being seen together in public with "the hog"?).  Snacks matter more than the marriage or the husband's happiness, not to mention her own health -- and who's gonna be responsible for shoving her fat thighs on and off the potty when she can't walk anymore?  A guy makes a commitment to one person, then she changes into a drastically different person.  That's shredding the contract.  That's buying land in Florida, then finding it's underwater.

 

You can never expect a person not to change, but you should know a lot about them before you marry them. I made no contract with my wife about personal appearance.

[J. D. Stembal]

Commitments are to more than just aesthetics... http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/through-thick-and-thin.html

 

Health is more than mere aesthetics. If a woman marries a man, and lets herself go, weighing twice as much as on her wedding day, that's a breach of her commitments to honor, love and cherish her partner. Breach of contract means the bond is null and void, at least, that's how it would work in a free and voluntary society.

 

In the instance of this show, the husbands were also dumpy-looking as well, but I can guarantee if one of them started lifting weights, the wife would panic and run interference to get him to stop, sensing the obvious threat to her complacence.

[J. D. Stembal]

You're being intentionally evasive. You made a really simple statement, which I'm asking you to substantiate: Fitness and health are one and the same, actually.

 

This is a philosophy forum, where people should be willing to show their working. If you don't want to substantiate your claims with something more valuable than anecdote, then you can't expect anybody else to believe you, and the following question should absolutely be ringing in your ears: how do I know what I know?

 

As somebody who's very health-conscious, and has been involved in crossfit, a couple of endurance events, martial arts, olympic lifting, (very) basic acrobatics, yoga, rugby, etc. over the years, I agree that what I define as 'fitness' promotes vitality in life, and massively increased function. Does that mean that the fact that I don't have any medical complaints proves that my own training and diet means I can't get cancer? No, that would be unscientific.

 

Further, you still haven't defined 'healthy' and 'fit', as requested (and required, if we're to evaluate your claim), so answering your final questions is pretty meaningless. But since you asked:

 

I can't see any symptoms of ill-health from looking at your body, as somebody with zero medical training (beyond first aid). But obviously, people with a similar physique to yours have died from cancer, and any other number of serious conditions. So I don't think that's a relevant question.

 

Do you look fit? You haven't defined fit. I have my own standards for fitness for men, which I think demonstrate a decent level of athletic ability and preparedness, such as minimum 2x bodyweight back squat and deadlift for 5, at least bodyweight power clean > front squat > OHP (separate movements for the OHP, but thruster is still a decent standard, as it shows integrated movement, which is probably more valuable than strength). While size does not equal strength, and I'm not trying to be judgemental here, but I haven't met many people with your build who can perform these. I'm guessing you're around 70-75kg? So that would be 140-150kg backsquat and deadlift for 5. I'm also a big fan of a strong core being an indication of some athletic performance, so L-hangs for 60+s, German hangs for some shoulder mobility, etc. 

 

Cardio is obviously much harder to estimate, short of measuring VO2 max. And then what good is a solid VO2 max without mobility and the requisite neurological training to perform at some level? That's why I tend to have standards based on function, as that's what fitness is for me. As a crossfitter, I presume you have quite similar standards. In terms of your own fitness, I obviously can't estimate your cardio at all from looking at you.

 

Thanks for the tips, coach. Where should I send the cheque?

 

P.S. I know a (hypothetical) buff dude who got cancer is not a valid argument, nor is creating a straw man, or arguing by adjective (evasive, unscientific). As you said, this is a philosophy forum, so please try again.

[ra86]

Thanks for the tips, coach. Where should I send the cheque?

 

P.S. I know a (hypothetical) buff dude who got cancer is not a valid argument, nor is creating a straw man, or arguing by adjective (evasive, unscientific). As you said, this is a philosophy forum, so please try again.

 

OK, if you're ignoring all of the points I made, then let's dive right back to the core point: your as-yet unsubstantiated claim.

 

"Fitness and health are one and the same, actually."

 

Define your terms, explain your working, and provide evidence to support your conclusion. 

[J. D. Stembal]

OK, if you're ignoring all of the points I made, then let's dive right back to the core point: your as-yet unsubstantiated claim.

 

"Fitness and health are one and the same, actually."

 

Define your terms, explain your working, and provide evidence to support your conclusion. 

 

Try reading the whole thread first, or some of the many other health topics that I've posted in on here. Why should I explain myself to an anonymous person on the internet with three posts to his name?

 

Why should I waste my time explaining myself to you when you have not bothered to quote me in context?

[ra86]

Try reading the whole thread first, or some of the many other health topics that I've posted in on here. Why should I explain myself to an anonymous person on the internet with three posts to his name?

 

Why should I waste my time explaining myself to you when you have not bothered to quote me in context?

 

I've read the whole thread; you haven't once provided any non-anecdotal evidence for this claim.

 

You're obviously under no obligation to explain anything to me, nor anybody else who challenges anything that you say. But until you do, your claim is unsubstantiated. It's odd to me that instead of choosing to share your knowledge on this subject, you're choosing to shut down and reject the question. You're more than happy to talk at length about this topic, until you're being asked for actual evidence.

[cager]

Graham, on 28 Sept 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

Apologies for the combo breaker, but has this been proposed?
 
Thin = Self control.
Self control = Denial of short term desire for long term gain.
Denial of short term desire for long term gain = Higher chance of fidelity.
Higher chance of fidelity = Lower parental uncertainty.
Lower parental certainty = more attractive.

This made me smile. Most of the thin, attractive women I have know definitely don't seem to follow this at all.

 

In my experience in high school and middle school, the girls who got pregnant were almost always fatter or less attractive. I can't recall the most beautiful and sought after girls ever getting pregnant. Does anyone else's experience back this up?

[brucethecollie]

 

Graham, on 28 Sept 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

 

In my experience in high school and middle school, the girls who got pregnant were almost always fatter or less attractive. I can't recall the most beautiful and sought after girls ever getting pregnant. Does anyone else's experience back this up?

 

That was what I witnessed in high school, too. 

[MagnumPI]

 

Graham, on 28 Sept 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

 

In my experience in high school and middle school, the girls who got pregnant were almost always fatter or less attractive. I can't recall the most beautiful and sought after girls ever getting pregnant. Does anyone else's experience back this up?

 

It was mixed where I was. Some were hot, most were fat minorities. I think it has more to do with 'cultural makeup'. Read that as redneck and country hoes are hot, but not bright or anything else at all, really.

 

What else is apparently common in white people states/towns/etc. is good looking women, with fat stupid guys. I know it as true from my experience, but I've been told it's common elsewhere, to an even greater degree, in the south and midwest.

 

I don't see it as much in big cities. It's usually very effeminate men. But the point is, small towns, good looking, stupid women without any semblance of proper upbringing. However poverty is not necessarily a part of it. There are some niche redneck type jobs that don't require a good deal of intelligence. So, lots of princesses who want a little "mini-me" like their retarded hoe-roes on TV, have a support group and plenty of idiots waiting in the wings to be Mr. Paycheck for the rest of their lives.