Swearing and Profanity

[MysterionMuffles]

Is it important for children not to swear. If so why or why not? Should they not be allowed to expirement with language and profane words, provided that they don't use them to demean other kids. I mean, there are a ton of so many other words and phrases that can hurt more than mere swear words, but what do you guys think?

[Mothra]

It's all about context. I personally don't care if my daughter uses swear words, as long as she doesn't use them to attack me or anyone else. I'd much rather hear "I hate doing fucking homework" than "fuck you." But then, I would not want her to attack anyone using ANY language, so it's not so much about the cussing as the intent.

 

I think swearing among friends builds camaraderie and indicates you are comfortable with each other. I think most kids do this naturally as they experiment with language.There's also the cathartic element when you accidentally injure yourself or make some horrible mistake. I read somewhere that cussing after that has a biochemical effect by decreasing stress hormones.

 

To me, swear words are just words. And ultimately all words are just sound waves and carry no moral value on their own. Context.

[FireMinstrel]

My high school was the same way.  They had a problem if you were cursing someone out to attack them, but if you were just kidding around, or say you dropped your textbook by accident and swore in frustration, no teacher was going to give you detention or whatever(actually, they didn't have detentions there, but that's beside the point).

[Mister Mister]

Personally I don't give a fucking rats ass about any of this bullshit, god damnit.

 

Sorry, I had to .  No I don't think it is a problem in principle.  "curse words" are the original politically correct heresies.   When I was a kid, maybe 4 or 5, my father washed out my mouth with soap because I kept saying "fuck".  WTF??!!!  It would really seem mad to a space alien, wouldn't it?  I didn't really get that it was a "bad word", I was just amused that it got such a reaction out of my parents.  It's almost like people give these words power, they put the part of themselves containing revulsion, and self-hatred.  I think it's not insignifcant that they tend to be words that deal with sexual or excretory body parts or acts: fuck, dick, ass, shit, and so on, parts of life which are common to everyone, yet we keep private from most people.

I think all that's required with kids is to be honest, at the appropriate ages.  Mommy and Daddy sometimes use these words, for emotional impact, but in certain contexts people they will make people uncomfortable, even angry.  Also an over-reliance on swearing can be a crutch for a poor vocabulary.

Nigger faggot cunt.  Wow, that's really satisfying

[A4E]

God is watching. Listen to authorities and the scripted stream media. Without a government, who will x as ineffective as they do today? My country is the best. Children only learn when you teach them a lesson. Did you see the match yesterday? The past is the past, you need to forgive.

 

Sorry for swearing.

[brucethecollie]

I've been conducting an experiment of sorts with my dear children.  I cuss about once a day (when stubbing a toe or something)....my husband, never, because he personally doesn't like it and isn't in the habit of it, while I think it colors my day (lol, i dunno).  And our kids are 6.  They hear me sometimes.  They know the words.  They seem to get how they are used.  I have told them that they are allowed to say what they want but that there are natural consequences to things.  For example, if they cuss, someone around them may be very upset by it and that person may call them out on it or just not want to be around them or share their resources with them.  Perhaps an opportunity may be lost because of cussing around someone who doesn't like it.  (They already know it's not kind to insult someone so it's not an issue of intent for us but about understanding how others might react to those words)  

 

In the last year, I've heard my son say the F and D word once or twice and my daughter covered her ears and said, "I don't like that word!" And we never said anything to him except to be aware that others may have a similar response.  I think that because it seems inconvenient at times and because he isn't in the least bit of trouble with his parents when cussing, that the appeal just isn't really there.  This may change, but I have found it interesting to see how many things aren't a big deal to kids when adults don't freak out over them.  Kids respond very well to calm logic.  But of course, we are only at age 6 so I will keep you posted LOL.

[Diki]

Great topic! Brucethecollie - be sure to keep us posted on how it's going!

 

When my mother was visiting last year she told me off in front of my kids becuase my 4-year-old son and I were trying to figure out who had farted. "We don't use that word" she said, "We say 'pop off'"

[Kurtis]

 

 

I have found it interesting to see how many things aren't a big deal to kids when adults don't freak out over them.  Kids respond very well to calm logic. 

 

Reading your post reminded me of a subject covered in the "Unschooling Life" podcast, which was about "Spoiling" kids.

 

The results that were discussed were that when things were forbidden or restricted (bedtime, icecream, screen time etc etc) then kids would crave these things and given the opportunity of choice, would binge to excess.  However, if the freedom to choose was maintained then kids would naturally end up self regulating to healthy sustainable levels.

 

If swearing is discussed openly and not forbidden or punished, then it makes sense to me that kids would only use those words when appropriate for the situation (much as a mindful adult would).

 

http://unschoolingsupport.com/spoiling/

[A4E]

Mirroring other people and wearing the culture you are born into is the rule. There is no reason to be upset that a child has learned new words, any more than being upset that the child learned to walk.

 

If it becomes frequent, then I'd just tell the child that people will find it harder to understand him/her. If someone wants to go through life swearing, then that is their choice. If it is directed at other people on the other hand, it becomes harmful and have to be addressed.

[brucethecollie]

Reading your post reminded me of a subject covered in the "Unschooling Life" podcast, which was about "Spoiling" kids.

 

The results that were discussed were that when things were forbidden or restricted (bedtime, icecream, screen time etc etc) then kids would crave these things and given the opportunity of choice, would binge to excess.  However, if the freedom to choose was maintained then kids would naturally end up self regulating to healthy sustainable levels.

 

If swearing is discussed openly and not forbidden or punished, then it makes sense to me that kids would only use those words when appropriate for the situation (much as a mindful adult would).

 

http://unschoolingsupport.com/spoiling/

 

Reading your post reminded me of a subject covered in the "Unschooling Life" podcast, which was about "Spoiling" kids.

 

The results that were discussed were that when things were forbidden or restricted (bedtime, icecream, screen time etc etc) then kids would crave these things and given the opportunity of choice, would binge to excess.  However, if the freedom to choose was maintained then kids would naturally end up self regulating to healthy sustainable levels.

 

If swearing is discussed openly and not forbidden or punished, then it makes sense to me that kids would only use those words when appropriate for the situation (much as a mindful adult would).

 

http://unschoolingsupport.com/spoiling/

 

Reading your post reminded me of a subject covered in the "Unschooling Life" podcast, which was about "Spoiling" kids.

 

The results that were discussed were that when things were forbidden or restricted (bedtime, icecream, screen time etc etc) then kids would crave these things and given the opportunity of choice, would binge to excess.  However, if the freedom to choose was maintained then kids would naturally end up self regulating to healthy sustainable levels.

 

If swearing is discussed openly and not forbidden or punished, then it makes sense to me that kids would only use those words when appropriate for the situation (much as a mindful adult would).

 

http://unschoolingsupport.com/spoiling/

Thanks for sharing!  I really appreciate reading more on this topic.  I started doing that with my kids because I remember doing what was forbidden of me when I was a kid.  I wondered if it was just me but it's just human nature.  We are all rebels lol

[Will Torbald]

I've been conducting an experiment of sorts with my dear children.  I cuss about once a day (when stubbing a toe or something)....my husband, never, because he personally doesn't like it and isn't in the habit of it, while I think it colors my day (lol, i dunno).  And our kids are 6.  They hear me sometimes.  They know the words.  They seem to get how they are used.  I have told them that they are allowed to say what they want but that there are natural consequences to things.  For example, if they cuss, someone around them may be very upset by it and that person may call them out on it or just not want to be around them or share their resources with them.  Perhaps an opportunity may be lost because of cussing around someone who doesn't like it.  (They already know it's not kind to insult someone so it's not an issue of intent for us but about understanding how others might react to those words)  

 

In the last year, I've heard my son say the F and D word once or twice and my daughter covered her ears and said, "I don't like that word!" And we never said anything to him except to be aware that others may have a similar response.  I think that because it seems inconvenient at times and because he isn't in the least bit of trouble with his parents when cussing, that the appeal just isn't really there.  This may change, but I have found it interesting to see how many things aren't a big deal to kids when adults don't freak out over them.  Kids respond very well to calm logic.  But of course, we are only at age 6 so I will keep you posted LOL.

 

What catches my attention is that while you were reasonable with your son, you didn't ask your daughter anything either. Do you think it is right for her to learn that she can control what other people say around her? To teach her that it is good by default that she has to cover her ears and tell people to shut up because she doesn't like a word? It sounds like what is happening with college campuses censoring speech over safe spaces and trigger warnings. I'm not a parent, and you can just blast me out if you think I am being intrusive. It's just my opinion on it. Why would she learn that "certain words are bad" or that "she doesn't like it". How does she know? Is she just repeating some fear mongering taught in school? Was she traumatized by those words before? It just seems like the origin of major problems with freedom of expression in adults having their origins on PC kids.

[brucethecollie]

What catches my attention is that while you were reasonable with your son, you didn't ask your daughter anything either. Do you think it is right for her to learn that she can control what other people say around her? To teach her that it is good by default that she has to cover her ears and tell people to shut up because she doesn't like a word? It sounds like what is happening with college campuses censoring speech over safe spaces and trigger warnings. I'm not a parent, and you can just blast me out if you think I am being intrusive. It's just my opinion on it. Why would she learn that "certain words are bad" or that "she doesn't like it". How does she know? Is she just repeating some fear mongering taught in school? Was she traumatized by those words before? It just seems like the origin of major problems with freedom of expression in adults having their origins on PC kids.

No worries-that's a great thing for you to bring up as it's SO important.  I didn't mention what I say to her-I absolutely agree with you.  Recently, because of time spent with others in playgrounds and such (not school since we don't send the kids to school), she has the idea that those words are "bad".  My husband and I are constantly reiterating to her that they are just words and that yes, other people are offended by hearing them but she has the power to choose whether she is offended or not.  I think she is starting to understand what we mean.  She said "damn it!" yesterday about one of her motors not connecting properly to a toy she was putting together and she looked up and said, "oh sorry..."  I said, "sorry for what?" And she said, "I'm not sure..." So then we discussed again, how other people choose to be offended by words that aren't even aimed at them and that we don't have to be that way.  She seemed relieved and I think her previous reactions to her brother were just mirrored responses based on what others in society do.  Kids tend to try on things they see other kids doing and saying.  It's frustrating for me to raise children in a place where people are so PC-without any principles or reason behind them but I think that with patience and constant communication I've been able to get through to my kids about things. It's not easy for them to feel so different from others but in the end I think they seem relieved to see the world in a way based in reality.

 

My kids tend to get along really well and people ask what we do to make that happen.  Aside from modelling behavior, my husband and I don't fall into doling out the traditional "don't bother your sister!" to our son because we teach her that if she doesn't like something he is doing then it's not his problem, it's something she can handle herself by removing herself from the situation or accepting it.  In other words, it's not his responsibility to not annoy her, it's her responsibility to choose whether she wants to play with him or not, or maybe negotiate how the "rules" of the game will be, or to let him know what she doesn't like and then respect whether he wants to accommodate her or not, but not to blame him for her discomfort or to try and get me to enforce a different behavior.  Of course, we say the same to him as well.  When they aren't around other kids they are generally respectful, great with communicating, but I do notice that about once a month, some other ideas are introduced when they spend time around other kids.  It's a constant struggle.  Reason wins in the end, I think.  It helps us to discuss everything they want to discuss because we get to hash out these topics and then we observe them making conscientious decisions that show their wheels are turning.  

 

The other day a woman at a playground asked a group of kids to please stop yelling.  She sounded pretty rude.  All the kids rolled their eyes and my daughter said, "but we are outside, why can't we be loud?"  The woman went to sit down without saying anything.  My daughter ran up to me and said, "Do I have to be quiet?"  I said, "No."  My daughter went over to the woman and said, "Why do you want us to be quiet?"  The woman said she had a terrible headache.  My daughter told all the kids that the woman had a headache and then they all made up a fun game about being stealthy throughout the playground pretending they were spies and the game naturally involved whispering.  To me, that was an example for my kids about how you don't expect others to do things for you but that humans will generally care about one another and without coercion and aggression, we can all be pretty happy and peaceful with one another-especially if we attempt to communicate.  

 

I just got back from a 4 day conference in which everything was so carefully PC, I thought I was going to explode lol.  Each night everyone would gather at the bar, PC crap would go out the window and we FINALLY started brainstorming, communicating, and having a great time with each other and even had some healthy debates.  The few that couldn't handle it missed out on the fun and the opportunity.  Nothing makes me happier than having real straightforward conversation with other humans.  Which is why I appreciate what you had to say.  Not only does it give me a chance to address it but it also helps keep my focus and intent strong as to why I want to keep communicating about these truths with my kids.  Now if anyone has any ideas about how to talk about outside influences with kids I'm also listening!  I find that they ask a lot of questions about the "majority". I think kids ask themselves "if so many think this way, then maybe they are right?"  I find that constantly addressing that is challenging. Of course, actions speak louder than words.  

 

I'm sorry this was so wordy. I just bought a book about how to be more concise lol

[Will Torbald]

I'm sorry this was so wordy. I just bought a book about how to be more concise lol

 

I thought it was very concise actually. There's a lot of content, but the content itself is on point and easy to read. It's great to know that your kids are maturing really well, and the stories were fun too. At this point it is more than peaceful parenting, but fully philsophical parenting. Kids will always tend to herd a little with the majority as an instinctive measure. It's just much more efficient to sense changes in the crowd for protection in nature, and things like that. What's important is to nurture their discretion as they age to grow out of the basic instinct into higher critical thinking.

[brucethecollie]

I thought it was very concise actually. There's a lot of content, but the content itself is on point and easy to read. It's great to know that your kids are maturing really well, and the stories were fun too. At this point it is more than peaceful parenting, but fully philsophical parenting. Kids will always tend to herd a little with the majority as an instinctive measure. It's just much more efficient to sense changes in the crowd for protection in nature, and things like that. What's important is to nurture their discretion as they age to grow out of the basic instinct into higher critical thinking.

Thank you  And what you said- "nurture their discretion as they age to grow out of the basic instinct into higher critical thinking" is excellently worded!  A great line for parental guidance.

[MysterionMuffles]

The other day a woman at a playground asked a group of kids to please stop yelling.  She sounded pretty rude.  All the kids rolled their eyes and my daughter said, "but we are outside, why can't we be loud?"  The woman went to sit down without saying anything.  My daughter ran up to me and said, "Do I have to be quiet?"  I said, "No."  My daughter went over to the woman and said, "Why do you want us to be quiet?"  The woman said she had a terrible headache.  My daughter told all the kids that the woman had a headache and then they all made up a fun game about being stealthy throughout the playground pretending they were spies and the game naturally involved whispering.  To me, that was an example for my kids about how you don't expect others to do things for you but that humans will generally care about one another and without coercion and aggression, we can all be pretty happy and peaceful with one another-especially if we attempt to communicate.  

 

 

That!

 

..........

 

Wow! Just epic win!

[Donnadogsoth]

Children merit a protective bubble shielding them from the aggressive, coarse, cynical, and crass realities of the adult world.  Coarse language is part of this crassness.  They should be shielded from sex, violence, and coarse language to a degree that will allow them to develop sensitive sensitivities towards their world and the people, creatures, and things inhabiting it.  That some dribs and drabs of adult oppressiveness will make it through is to be expected, but this does not negate the principle, any more than the odd bee-sting negates the principle of wariness around bees.