I feel betrayed by my best friend and a girl

[OtherOtie]

This is going to be a long story, so let me start at the beginning. Obviously this is all from my perspective, but I'm going to try to outline the events as objectively as I can.

 

Two months ago, I started hanging out and talking to this girl we'll call Beth. I went to the beach with her, I went over her house, and we had a lot of close phone conversations. We were physically intimate in some ways (kissing, touching, holding hands, etc.) and highly flirtatious with one another. No sex or major intimacy because I did not want to engage in any of that at the time, though she did. I think it's fair to say that the trajectory of our relationship was "getting close." We both expressed interest in each other.

 

Somewhere along that trajectory, I introduced her to my best friend. We all play League of Legends, so that's how they met. This was fine for a while. But maybe after a week or so of that, my friend came to me and said that he thinks Beth and he might be flirting with each other, and wanted to know if that's okay. My response was that I did not think it was okay because I perceived it as a major conflict of interest and a threat to our friendship. I wanted us both to cut off all ties with her.

 

Then she convinced us not to cut her off, because she essentially manipulated me into thinking she wasn't flirting with him and that it was all a big misunderstanding. Note that I was not upset that she was flirting with another guy, as we were not exclusive and she was under no obligation to refrain from that. My issue was that she was flirting with my best friend while she was getting close to me and that this was a terrible and inconsiderate idea.

 

Any way, she convinced us not to cut it off with her, so things continued. I advised my friend that neither of us should pursue her, since we both had feelings for her and it would create resentment somewhere along the line.

 

Now there's one thing about this girl that should be known: she's a very, very good manipulator. As I said, she convinced me that the thing with my best friend was a misunderstanding. She would also have conversations with my friend in which she convinced him that she was never flirtatious with me or that she had no feelings for me. This was an obvious lie because she would admit to me many times that she did have feelings for me. Yet whenever my friend inquired about it, she would downplay that reality. Essentially, she seemed to be trying to flirt with both of us simultaneously and get away with it.

 

Another thing about this girl is that she feels that I rejected her. This is partially true. We have had conversations about the prospect of dating, and I basically expressed to her that while I did want to date her and am open to the possibility of it, it probably wouldn't be a good idea in the long run because we have conflicting values and world views. She took this as "I don't want her" -- which isn't true.

 

Now there's a sort of climax coming up. One day, my friend and her had an apparently long conversation where she convinced him that it was okay for them to get close to each other. I was told about this, and again I expressed that it was a bad idea and that it would foster resentment between us. My friend eventually agreed and cut it off with her. She then called me and she and I had a long conversation about what to do about this love triangle situation. In this conversation, several things were established: (1) she and I both have interest in each other, but she felt rejected (2) she was flirting with me in this very conversation and was being overtly sexual and (3) she wasn't going to talk to my best friend anymore.

 

The next day, my friend was feeling very depressed because he had cut it off with her. I did not think this was such a good idea because I didn't want him to be depressed. I wanted the situation to be diffused all around because I saw it as a huge conflict of interest. So he started talking to her again, but the idea was he would avoid to have any intimate conversations (I committed to this as well). Maybe the next day or so, he went over her house and had a "magical" night with her. And then it was decided that they would pursue a relationship with each other.

 

When I expressed to my friend that I felt terribly hurt and betrayed by all of this, he basically told me that he's sorry that I feel that way but he feels very happy and wants to see this to the end. I gave him many good reasons why he is making a terrible decision, such as that this girl is manipulative and has lied to both of us continuously and knowingly put herself in between a best friendship. I told him that the "magic" he experiences with her is something I've experienced with her several times over the course of knowing her. And I asked him how he could be content with this when the girl was trying to have this sort of relationship with two best friends. I found it gross. He apparently did not.

 

I've known my friend for 10+ years and we have been very close over that decade. I feel betrayed and I am a bit jealous and resentful of the whole situation, and he went through with this knowing all of that. I do not know what I should do or how I should feel. I don't know if my feelings are warranted or not. I don't know if I should end my friendship with him out of principle. I just don't know.

 

All I know is that I feel angry, sad, alone, and betrayed, and I feel that his decision to pursue a relationship with this girl will be the downfall of our friendship, because I will always see him as the person who sold out his closest friendship for a girl who he only just met. And not just any girl, but the girl I was getting close to even before he came into the picture.

Please help.

[st434u]

He obviously is no friend of yours.

 

She's clearly not a good person either.

 

I know you must feel terrible right now, and I'm sorry for that, but in the long scheme of things, you should probably thank her for showing you that this person who you thought was a wonderful friend of 10+ years, was anything but. Imagine how much more it could've ended up costing you to figure this out, if you trusted him completely.

[Wuzzums]

You made a very long post and nowhere do you say anything as to why you're "interested" in her. Sounds to me like both of you are confusing sexual attraction with "interest". If this is the case, are you sure you're feeling betrayed and not just jealous?

 

I don't know if I should end my friendship with him out of principle. I just don't know.

 

 

But what's principle? You just basically told him that if he goes for her you'll feel resentment towards him. Would he have felt the same way if you were the one that slept with her?

[jason_]

Hi OOtie,

I'm sorry to hear about this situation and I feel your pain. From experience, I advise you that the acuteness with which you're feeling it will subside.

From what you've stated in your post, I think you handled the 'love triangle' in a mature fashion. In retrospect -- which is often the only way in which we can tell what's best with sorts of things -- you probably should have dissolved in your mind any possibility of getting involved with this woman once you realized her lack of concern for your's and your friend's long time relationship.

I'd guess that there was a part of you holding on to this possibility and it is at the source of the emotional trauma apparent in your post. Of course, also the weight of a 10+ year friendship. What else is apparent to me, is that you are an intelligent person, and if it were not for the emotion involved it would be easier to see what to do in this situation.

I think it's good that you reached out to others because of this, but you have the most intimate knowledge of the characters involved, and you are the best qualified to know how to handle it. Figuring from your profile page I'm 9 years your senior. I have dealt with betrayal (real and perceived) by 'friends.' I hope I can help.

As a member of this community, I will assume that you are keen on self reflection. I'm guessing that you have noticed there are certain realizations that one (if paying attention in life) has simply as a byproduct of living longer. For example, one can see the payoff from time and energy invested in projects they worked on when younger, and more generally, the eventual consequences of one's decisions.

So, I think it's important to ask yourself what can you reasonably expect from a person who you were up front with and open to and they disregarded your feelings? What could be the consequences of keeping that person close? Remember the saying, "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." There was something about you that prompted you to give up what you wanted (namely 'Beth', or at least say that you would) in order to maintain the friendship. Evidently, this quality is not pronounced in your friend.

It's really a shame that he does not share reverence for your long standing friendship, but you're still young and you have time to build relationships with others. Although it is harder to get close to people as adults, you are also hopefully wiser and better able to discern whom to confide in anf whom not to.

Whether or not you keep this person in your life, it appears that recent events have proved to defining of your friendship. However you proceed, it is unreasonable to expect you could trust him whenever women are involved.

Best of luck and feel free to let us know how it goes.

[luxfelix]

With regards to lakona's last point:

 

It's important to reach a sense of closure. 

 

It may or may not be the case where you continue your relationship in the future, and/or for brief periods at a time (that's between you and them); though, since your 10+ years, you've undoubtedly grown, and if your best friend has not, then your decision to maintain that relationship, to the title and benefits of "best friend" mind you, is one of self-sacrifice.

[A4E]

Something does not add up for me. Maybe I just got lost dunno.

 

You already established that this girl is very manipulative, and you realized what hell that can bring with it in the future, and also you had conflicting world views, so you are hopefully not interested in her any more.

 

Your friend, in spite of warnings, wants to pursue her. That is his choice.

 

Why do you still care? The girl is most definitely going to try to cut you off your friend anyway.

 

 

Look at the bright side. You can make a movie about it.

[stMarkus]

The fact that you don´t recognize she´s a whore is probably the most important thing for me in your story.

 

Avoiding whores begins with recognizing whores.

 

What does your mother think of her?. What would she think of her?

 

Lot´s of people fuck whores but it´s not a good idea if one wants to have self-esteem.

 

Regarding your friend.... I mean step 1, 2 and 3 are already incredibly hard to deal with so I'd begin with them.

[J. D. Stembal]

 

This is going to be a long story, so let me start at the beginning. Obviously this is all from my perspective, but I'm going to try to outline the events as objectively as I can.

 

Two months ago, I started hanging out and talking to this girl we'll call Beth. I went to the beach with her, I went over her house, and we had a lot of close phone conversations. We were physically intimate in some ways (kissing, touching, holding hands, etc.) and highly flirtatious with one another. No sex or major intimacy because I did not want to engage in any of that at the time, though she did. I think it's fair to say that the trajectory of our relationship was "getting close." We both expressed interest in each other.

 

Somewhere along that trajectory, I introduced her to my best friend. We all play League of Legends, so that's how they met. This was fine for a while. But maybe after a week or so of that, my friend came to me and said that he thinks Beth and he might be flirting with each other, and wanted to know if that's okay. My response was that I did not think it was okay because I perceived it as a major conflict of interest and a threat to our friendship. I wanted us both to cut off all ties with her.

 

Then she convinced us not to cut her off, because she essentially manipulated me into thinking she wasn't flirting with him and that it was all a big misunderstanding. Note that I was not upset that she was flirting with another guy, as we were not exclusive and she was under no obligation to refrain from that. My issue was that she was flirting with my best friend while she was getting close to me and that this was a terrible and inconsiderate idea.

 

Any way, she convinced us not to cut it off with her, so things continued. I advised my friend that neither of us should pursue her, since we both had feelings for her and it would create resentment somewhere along the line.

 

Now there's one thing about this girl that should be known: she's a very, very good manipulator. As I said, she convinced me that the thing with my best friend was a misunderstanding. She would also have conversations with my friend in which she convinced him that she was never flirtatious with me or that she had no feelings for me. This was an obvious lie because she would admit to me many times that she did have feelings for me. Yet whenever my friend inquired about it, she would downplay that reality. Essentially, she seemed to be trying to flirt with both of us simultaneously and get away with it.

 

Another thing about this girl is that she feels that I rejected her. This is partially true. We have had conversations about the prospect of dating, and I basically expressed to her that while I did want to date her and am open to the possibility of it, it probably wouldn't be a good idea in the long run because we have conflicting values and world views. She took this as "I don't want her" -- which isn't true.

 

Now there's a sort of climax coming up. One day, my friend and her had an apparently long conversation where she convinced him that it was okay for them to get close to each other. I was told about this, and again I expressed that it was a bad idea and that it would foster resentment between us. My friend eventually agreed and cut it off with her. She then called me and she and I had a long conversation about what to do about this love triangle situation. In this conversation, several things were established: (1) she and I both have interest in each other, but she felt rejected (2) she was flirting with me in this very conversation and was being overtly sexual and (3) she wasn't going to talk to my best friend anymore.

 

The next day, my friend was feeling very depressed because he had cut it off with her. I did not think this was such a good idea because I didn't want him to be depressed. I wanted the situation to be diffused all around because I saw it as a huge conflict of interest. So he started talking to her again, but the idea was he would avoid to have any intimate conversations (I committed to this as well). Maybe the next day or so, he went over her house and had a "magical" night with her. And then it was decided that they would pursue a relationship with each other.

 

When I expressed to my friend that I felt terribly hurt and betrayed by all of this, he basically told me that he's sorry that I feel that way but he feels very happy and wants to see this to the end. I gave him many good reasons why he is making a terrible decision, such as that this girl is manipulative and has lied to both of us continuously and knowingly put herself in between a best friendship. I told him that the "magic" he experiences with her is something I've experienced with her several times over the course of knowing her. And I asked him how he could be content with this when the girl was trying to have this sort of relationship with two best friends. I found it gross. He apparently did not.

 

I've known my friend for 10+ years and we have been very close over that decade. I feel betrayed and I am a bit jealous and resentful of the whole situation, and he went through with this knowing all of that. I do not know what I should do or how I should feel. I don't know if my feelings are warranted or not. I don't know if I should end my friendship with him out of principle. I just don't know.

 

All I know is that I feel angry, sad, alone, and betrayed, and I feel that his decision to pursue a relationship with this girl will be the downfall of our friendship, because I will always see him as the person who sold out his closest friendship for a girl who he only just met. And not just any girl, but the girl I was getting close to even before he came into the picture.

Please help.

 

 

Otie, I believe I know how you are feeling right now. I feel badly that this situation happened to you. It's happened to me a couple times before when I was a lot younger than I am now.

 

Men are expected to deliver the goods when women ask. If she was all over you and you wished to take it slowly, she's going to hypergamize and move to the next closest and most attractive option, your friend. This is human or animal nature, otherwise known as Briffault's Law.

 

My advice - which I have not followed until recently - is to look for a woman that has more patience and virtue. Women are constantly trying to rush sex and intimacy, but they talk as though it's the men that push hard for it. You may not be likely to find a woman in your age group, so you must also have some patience and virtue if that is what you are seeking.

 

You also do not have to seek perfection, as in another Ancap woman. Remember that you are the man, and she simply has the eggs that you want. I get the sense that many of the single women who gravitate toward the liberty and voluntary movement are desperate for male attention and are putting on a front for hypergamy's sake, hence why there is such a low percentage of women around these forums.

 

If your friend is not willing to speak with you further about it, allow him to make his own mistakes. It sounds as if this woman could be trouble in the long run, and the magic your friend experienced will not bring him long term happiness. Her tits and ass are likely going to start sagging some day soon unless she eats well and takes care of herself!

 

As an aside, I don't speak with anyone I knew when I was 13, but that's not to suggest that you shouldn't, just that people move, change and grow.

 

Please take a look at what your needs are and re-examine the relationship with your best friend. I find that it is very helpful to make a Pro/Con list to analyze other people, especially woman to which I am attracted, but you can make lists for anything in life.

[AccuTron]

Everything you discuss is a tangle of emotional feelings, which are the foe of rational thought.  Feelings are about feeling good, ultimately.  So do things that feel good.  Outdoor hikes, a vigorous physical sport, a food treat.  Talk to total strangers at a cafe or mall about your thoughts, which will give you not just insights, but the feeling of connecting to larger humanity, as opposed to focusing on your friend.  Your inner kitty cat will tend to drift to the purr-zone, and the other stuff has the opportunity to shrink back into perspective.

[J. D. Stembal]

Everything you discuss is a tangle of emotional feelings, which are the foe of rational thought.  Feelings are about feeling good, ultimately.  So do things that feel good.  Outdoor hikes, a vigorous physical sport, a food treat.  Talk to total strangers at a cafe or mall about your thoughts, which will give you not just insights, but the feeling of connecting to larger humanity, as opposed to focusing on your friend.  Your inner kitty cat will tend to drift to the purr-zone, and the other stuff has the opportunity to shrink back into perspective.

 

I've been doing this a lot recently, picking conversations with friendly people in public. My inner kitty cat has fleas.

[OtherOtie]

You made a very long post and nowhere do you say anything as to why you're "interested" in her. Sounds to me like both of you are confusing sexual attraction with "interest". If this is the case, are you sure you're feeling betrayed and not just jealous?

 

 

But what's principle? You just basically told him that if he goes for her you'll feel resentment towards him. Would he have felt the same way if you were the one that slept with her?

 

For me the interest was sexual attraction, yes. I am not sure if he would have felt the same way. I assumed he would have. 

 

 

Something does not add up for me. Maybe I just got lost dunno.

 

You already established that this girl is very manipulative, and you realized what hell that can bring with it in the future, and also you had conflicting world views, so you are hopefully not interested in her any more.

 

Your friend, in spite of warnings, wants to pursue her. That is his choice.

 

Why do you still care? The girl is most definitely going to try to cut you off your friend anyway.

 

 

Look at the bright side. You can make a movie about it.

 

It's difficult for me to figure out why I still care. I think there are two things at play: (1) I am still young and even though I recognize that she's not a good person, my surface level feelings have still fallen for her and so even while I rationally rejected her, my hormones did not (2) I care because my friend seemed to disregard my feelings with his actions and was willing to jeopardize our friendship for an infatuation. 

 

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice and sympathy. I guess the only thing to do really is let this heal and learn from the situation.

[Quadrewple]

 

 

"Two months ago, I started hanging out and talking to this girl we'll call Beth.  We were physically intimate in some ways"

 

In hindsight, do you regret becoming intimate with her in the first place?  Clearly you regret the aftermath of this entire situation - I think it's important to point out that the choice to be intimate with her was the first choice which led to a chain of events which led to you feeling betrayed.  This doesn't mean you couldn't have handled the situation after that point better or the other two people couldn't have made more considerate decisions - only that this initial decision was the only one in which you had virtually 100% control of how things played out (you could've broken contact with her at any time before becoming physically intimate in any way).  What started out as a simple decision led you into a highly complex situation where you had to depend on 2 other people making decisions which did not hurt you, and which they both failed at doing.  I bring all this up to remind you to be conscious about when you're giving your power away to others, so that you never give away power to the wrong people and end up feeling the way you do right now.

 

"No sex or major intimacy because I did not want to engage in any of that at the time, though she did. I think it's fair to say that the trajectory of our relationship was "getting close." We both expressed interest in each other."

 

It seems that you two must have had a conversation wherein you expressed differing desires for how you two would spend your time together, or such conversations were avoided or not fleshed out.  Those of us who have traumatic histories unfortunately need to be even more careful than everyone else when it comes to differences in relationships in order to make sure we do not end up being exploited, as we had to bond with people who were diametrically opposed to our best interests.  Once it had been established that both of you wanted different things, I think that would have been a good time for you to distance yourself from her and talk over the situation with someone you trusted - a therapist or a wiser, hopefully older, trustworthy friend, or at the very LEAST journal about the entire situation yourself as objectively as you could.  You haven't said, but my guess is that she was the one who was doing most of the pursuing and initiating of contact at a time when it was probably in your best interest to slow down.

 

If she wanted to sleep with you and you didn't want to sleep with her (reasons aside), what would the reason for continued contact with her (at least outside of League of Legends) be?

 

In your post, you never gave any background about why you wanted to become intimate with her in the first place, which I think is a problem if it's any indication of how important you think it is to avoiding situation like this in the future.  I would argue if you only analyzed one decision in this situation, this would be the most important one to think over BY FAR.  As we both know, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  As Stef has said before, self-knowledge is about slowing down.  It is often especially important to slow down when others are pressuring you to speed up.  If a car salesman kept trying to rush you into buying when you already said you weren't ready, wouldn't that be a red flag that believed they had far more to gain than you from that transaction?  The same principle applies to sex and friendships as well.  How long after it was established that you two wanted different things did she meet your friend?  Was it her idea to meet him or yours?

[NumberSix]

Don't be too hard on your friend, he is young, immature, and letting his penis do the thinking. You don't have any claim to her and she would have gone with someone else eventually. I can understand the hurt feelings, but she isn't your girlfriend and therefore you can have no expectations of her. You can't reject her and tell anyone else she is off limits. It seems selfish that you don’t want to have sex with her but don’t want anyone else to have sex with her either.

[st434u]

It seems selfish that you don’t want to have sex with her but don’t want anyone else to have sex with her either.

 

That's not what he said. Not even close.

[OtherOtie]

 

 

In hindsight, do you regret becoming intimate with her in the first place?

 

I do, very much. I learned a very valuable lesson, which is that what I thought of as an innocuous association eventually came back to cause me a great deal of distress. 

 

 

 

If she wanted to sleep with you and you didn't want to sleep with her (reasons aside), what would the reason for continued contact with her (at least outside of League of Legends) be?

 

I was having fun with her in very shallow ways. I enjoyed the physical contact we did have, and enjoyed our mutual flirtation even though I knew it was not a good idea to pursue anything serious with her. What I see in hindsight is that it wasn't worth it, and that there is no such thing as harmless flirtation. Next time when I identify a girl like this I will not indulge in that sort of thing, because of the grief that it has caused me. 

 

 

 

How long after it was established that you two wanted different things did she meet your friend?  Was it her idea to meet him or yours?

 

I believe she met him prior to us establishing that... but her flirting with him started not long after we established it. I believe it was my idea but I did not imagine either of them would do such a thing. 

[green banana]

This is human or animal nature, otherwise known as Briffault's Law.

 

There is no such law known to biology. It's a construct that sprung out of MRA / MGTOW blogs.