john cena Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 Hi all. I recall Stefan making an argument in one of his past podcasts, claiming that government was the number one cause of death in the 20th century, excluding war. I used this in a debate today, but when I went to source it, I can't seem to find it ANYWHERE! Could someone that has recently come across that give me a link maybe? Thanks guys.
MrCapitalism Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 This looks pretty relevant. The search term I used was "democide" http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
john cena Posted September 6, 2015 Author Posted September 6, 2015 This looks pretty relevant. The search term I used was "democide" http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM I came across several articles such as that, however the exact point used to refute my argument was smallpox. "An estimated 300 million people died from smallpox in the 20th century alone. This virulent disease, which kills a third of those it infects, is known to have co-existed with human beings for thousands of years." I'm not sure if I simply misheard, or if Stefan was incorrect, or was using different numbers. 1
MrCapitalism Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 That's a good point. I wonder if what you repeated was a misquote of if that's an actual error.. and holy crap, those smallpox images on Wikipedia are horrific . I don't care if there's lead in the vaccine.. hand me a needle!
A4E Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 hand me a needle! I strongly suggest anyone still thinking that vaccines are good, or even work, to acquire information on this topic. "The main advances in combating disease over 200 years have been better food and clean drinking water. Improved sanitation, less overcrowded and better living conditions also contribute." Source. A lot of what is in these shots is criminal to inject into a person. 2 2
green banana Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 A4E is onto something. I found some articles indicating that vaccines are even more dangerous than he thinks: http://naturalnewd.com/articles/vaccines-tuna-tattoos-damage-brainshttp://naturalnewd.com/articles/depopulation-vaccines-killing-everyonehttp://naturalnewd.com/articles/vaccines-cause-child-lycanthropyhttp://naturalnewd.com/articles/pharmaceutical-study-funded-by-pharma-co 1
AccuTron Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 A4E is onto something. I found some articles indicating that vaccines are even more dangerous than he thinks: http://naturalnewd.com/articles/vaccines-tuna-tattoos-damage-brains http://naturalnewd.com/articles/depopulation-vaccines-killing-everyone http://naturalnewd.com/articles/vaccines-cause-child-lycanthropy http://naturalnewd.com/articles/pharmaceutical-study-funded-by-pharma-co Dude, that is flaky stuff. EDIT: now I see that it is humor, but part of it threw me as sounding serious. Anyway, still good info here below about mercury. Not that I trust gummint terribly much at all, (see my link in these forums (2 top medical journals claim medical research half false - Current Events - Freedomain Radio Message Board ), but this... Thimerosal and 2014-2015 Seasonal Flu Vaccines | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC-- Since 2001, no new vaccine licensed by FDA for use in children has contained thimerosal as a preservative, and all vaccines routinely recommended by CDC for children younger than 6 years of age have been thimerosal-free, or contain only trace amounts of thimerosal, except for some formulations of influenza vaccine. The most recent and rigorous scientific research does not support the argument that thimerosal-containing vaccines are harmful. CDC and FDA continually evaluate new scientific information about the safety of vaccines. Thimerosal in Vaccines Thimerosal | Concerns | Vaccine Safety | CDC Two types of mercury to which people may be exposed -- methylmercury and ethylmercury -- are very different. Methylmercury is the type of mercury found in certain kinds of fish. At high exposure levels methylmercury can be toxic to people. In the United States, federal guidelines keep as much methylmercury as possible out of the environment and food, but over a lifetime, everyone is exposed to some methylmercury. Thimerosal contains ethylmercury, which is cleared from the human body more quickly than methylmercury, and is therefore less likely to cause any harm. Thimerosal does not stay in the body a long time so it does not build up and reach harmful levels. When thimerosal enters the body, it breaks down to ethylmercury and thiosalicylate, which are readily eliminated. 1
john cena Posted September 6, 2015 Author Posted September 6, 2015 That's a good point. I wonder if what you repeated was a misquote of if that's an actual error.. and holy crap, those smallpox images on Wikipedia are horrific . I don't care if there's lead in the vaccine.. hand me a needle! I specifically remember him ranting about it... I recall him using 320 million as the number of deaths caused by government, and that it was the number one single factor. About vaccines.. There is no proof of them ever curing anything. This is pretty much all you need to know, here: http://www.thinktwice.com/Polio.pdf "Figure 5. Polio cases were predetermined to decrease when the medical definition of polio was changed " Once again, government manipulation of statistics. 2 1
Anuojat Posted September 9, 2015 Posted September 9, 2015 I specifically remember him ranting about it... I recall him using 320 million as the number of deaths caused by government, and that it was the number one single factor. About vaccines.. There is no proof of them ever curing anything. This is pretty much all you need to know, here:http://www.thinktwice.com/Polio.pdf "Figure 5. Polio cases were predetermined to decrease when the medical definition of polio was changed " Once again, government manipulation of statistics. A blog paper (not scientifically peer rewied one) about 1 type of vaccine from 5 states next to another hardly counts as evidence of ALL vaccines not curing anything. Certainly there were polio vaccine induced problem following salks first vaccine (polio vaccine induced polio) was a problem and has been concern. However as miller in the paper mentions this is mostly an issue with people with compromised immune systems (the effect being 7000 fold increase in the changes.) As much as i distrust the government i cannot just take a paper like this and "be all i need to know." A4E is onto something. I found some articles indicating that vaccines are even more dangerous than he thinks: http://naturalnewd.com/articles/vaccines-tuna-tattoos-damage-brainshttp://naturalnewd.com/articles/depopulation-vaccines-killing-everyonehttp://naturalnewd.com/articles/vaccines-cause-child-lycanthropyhttp://naturalnewd.com/articles/pharmaceutical-study-funded-by-pharma-co Naturalnews.com is one of the worst pseudoscience and misinformation site there is. I cant in good consicience let this fly by, numerious people have already pointed out the various quakeries that this site promotes and adventeries and at some point even if one doesnt have to debund everything. Its not worth pursuing because lies can be made faster than debunking them after all. Some denking and exposers to the sites other promotations: http://skeptoid.com/blog/2013/11/08/naturalnonsensenaturalnews-hyperbole-on-cancer-screening/ http://health.skepticproject.com/articles/natural-news/what-skeptics-really-believe/ http://bigthink.com/neurobonkers/who-do-you-know-who-believes-in-the-most-deadly-kind-of-pseudoscience I would also point out that naturalnews that referances as its own sources ITSELF on ore accounts than it sources actual scientific papers (papers that have been reproduced or rewiew OR which actually say waht they claim they say.) As such my main ciritism and concern is this: We here at FDR should and i think do follow reason evidence and logic and as such a site like this while containing some good advice (on herbs and few food items) and few articles refering to actual scientific papers i dont think if one wants to be philosofical and follow reason and evidence and logic should grant such a site any creditability. I hope this has been useful and should you feel or see if ive made some mistakes in my quest to debunk this sites creditability id be happy to respond.
green banana Posted September 9, 2015 Posted September 9, 2015 Naturalnews.com is one of the worst pseudoscience and misinformation site there is. I couldn't agree more with your points. If you have a look at my links you will see that they are a wellmade spoof
Anuojat Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 I couldn't agree more with your points. If you have a look at my links you will see that they are a wellmade spoof Oh thank Geezus, maybe i overreacted thinking you were taking them seriously. PS. *looks at links* yeeeeeah, hindsight about not understanding a joke/spoof is a pain :S
Mister Mister Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Government was the number one cause of NON-NATURAL death in the last century. Around 350 million,including democide in war, but I don't think that exceeds deaths by natural causes. The way I argue it is, ask a person "Has more harm been done by people breaking the law, or enforcing the law". Although sometimes I get the response that this is an unfair comparison because it leaves out all the people who would be breaking the law without the government, which kind of flabbergasts me. It's like, "yea, governments killed 350 million people, but what if they HADN'T been there to protect everyone???" 1
AccuTron Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 I found the thinktwice.com paper, reviewed or not, as very interesting. Seemed pretty solid to me. 1
Pendrokar Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 Offtopic(vaccines): About vaccines.. There is no proof of them ever curing anything. That's not their intent. I don't see anyone here pointing out the distinction between a vaccine and a cure. A vaccine is not intended to cure a disease after contracting it, rather to prevent the disease from being contracted. You do not cure a disease with a vaccine. So yes. Vaccines do not act as cures for diseases.
Carl Green Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 Hi all. I recall Stefan making an argument in one of his past podcasts, claiming that government was the number one cause of death in the 20th century, excluding war. I used this in a debate today, but when I went to source it, I can't seem to find it ANYWHERE! Could someone that has recently come across that give me a link maybe? Thanks guys. I remember hearing something similar but don't recall war being excluded.
NotDarkYet Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Perhaps we ought to separate human caused vs natural causes of death. It's not like we'd be OK with a mass murderer if you could show that some avalanche killed MORE people. 1
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