Do you think ABA therapy for autism is abusive?

[iuliuspro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEoW5rfNXM4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWscK_Lb1W8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLBLnNxzftM

Above you have 3 links, first is an autistic woman talking about her experience as a teen with ABA therapy for autism, second it's a mother training her child obedience and third is an ABA session I found on youtube.

 

What do you think?

Is it ok what is going on in this therapy sessions?

 

As an architect I am designing a therapy center for autistic children and this space must contain a space for this kind of therapy. I am starting to be uncomfortable placing such a space in this project even though is mandatory.

 

All responses are useful but if someone on this forum has autism and went under ABA therapy, I would like to here your opinion on this!
 

[neeeel]

My first response to the 3rd video was "yuk". How annoying to have some woman constantly bombarding you with things, talking at you all the time, not giving you peace until you comply with her wishes. 

I couldnt even watch the whole of the 2nd video, the whole thing of compliance training says it all. Why does she want him to pick up a piece of paper, and put a banana back in the kitchen? All that stuff about being able to sit still in school. I hated how she stood there with a bowl of treats, and the man kept demanding one every few seconds.

 

I dont know a lot about autism, or how often autistic people die or get injured through their own actions ( eg walking out into roads), that seemed to be the main justification they gave for this type of training

 

I didnt like these videos, and felt a negative reaction towards the people in them  ( the therapist and the mother). Not that that means anything, My reaction could be more about my childhood than the videos.

[Sima]

i think if autistic people are under a lot of threat to harm themselves, then ABA is ok. 

Otherwise i  agree with the woman from 1st video: it can make them to do anything other people say. They dont have their own judgement.

2nd video:is a  "dog whisperer" thing.  

I worked shortly with 2 autistic boys, so i think i would have been better for them to stay more at home (age 3 and 6)  but they used to go to special school 4 days a week, which made them aggressive, they always used to come home screaming and crying. 

maybe If you keep them more at  home till older age (maybe 12-15) ,then AbA is not that necessary..

I remember particularly, that the boy of the age of 6 didnt talk, but i  taught him to sing that was weird and nice,he  doesnt talk, but he does sing that was Jingle bell christmas song mostly

[iuliuspro]

My first response to the 3rd video was "yuk". How annoying to have some woman constantly bombarding you with things, talking at you all the time, not giving you peace until you comply with her wishes. 

I couldnt even watch the whole of the 2nd video, the whole thing of compliance training says it all. Why does she want him to pick up a piece of paper, and put a banana back in the kitchen? All that stuff about being able to sit still in school. I hated how she stood there with a bowl of treats, and the man kept demanding one every few seconds.

 

I dont know a lot about autism, or how often autistic people die or get injured through their own actions ( eg walking out into roads), that seemed to be the main justification they gave for this type of training

 

I didnt like these videos, and felt a negative reaction towards the people in them  ( the therapist and the mother). Not that that means anything, My reaction could be more about my childhood than the videos.

In the 3rd video I thought, this woman has no concern with what this boy is thinking, feeling, what he wants and what hes problems are. If you don't know that how can you help. It seams to me that what they do there is crush the child in a state of obedience so that the parents, teachers, other people are happy, so they don't face the real issue and try to really help.

i think if autistic people are under a lot of threat to harm themselves, then ABA is ok. 

Otherwise i  agree with the woman from 1st video: it can make them to do anything other people say. They dont have their own judgement.

2nd video:is a  "dog whisperer" thing.  

I worked shortly with 2 autistic boys, so i think i would have been better for them to stay more at home (age 3 and 6)  but they used to go to special school 4 days a week, which made them aggressive, they always used to come home screaming and crying. 

maybe If you keep them more at  home till older age (maybe 12-15) ,then AbA is not that necessary..

I remember particularly, that the boy of the age of 6 didnt talk, but i  taught him to sing that was weird and nice,he  doesnt talk, but he does sing that was Jingle bell christmas song mostly

Wow that is so interesting. You say you worked with 2 children. How were they different? There were times when you couldn't reason with them and had to physically restrain them? (In the project that I am involved a specialist said they needed a space in the room where they could practically jump on top of a child and pin him down). I don't know if the situation is so sever but to me an adult jumping on a child and restraining them is terrifying and I don't think it can have a positive impact.

 

And thank you for the info! 

[neeeel]

In the 3rd video I thought, this woman has no concern with what this boy is thinking, feeling, what he wants and what hes problems are. If you don't know that how can you help. It seams to me that what they do there is crush the child in a state of obedience so that the parents, teachers, other people are happy, so they don't face the real issue and try to really help.

 

 

Yes, this. compliance, thats what it seems to be all about. Get the child to obey. Of course, this is just me looking in from the outside with no real knowledge of the situation, so I could be wrong. 

[Sima]

dear juliuspro,  those children couldnt talk, were in diapers ( at the age 3 and 6) the older learned to use the toilet at the age of 6 learning that from his older sister who is normal. The family had a big closed garden where they played a lot, so it wasnt dangerous for them there, i never had to restrict them physically, but i remember hugging them and massaging them in order to calm them down. They watched a lot tv, sometimes had fights about toys they didnt share, it was kinda ok there, in general they reminded me 2 year olds as if their mental growth has stopped at that age. I mean they were really small, so it was easy. Maybe once i had to grab him and to bring to home on my hands when he came screaming from school, but me and other woman, we were not cruel , we found it sad, that the boy was so sad. it was all about calming him down. Hope it helps.

[iuliuspro]

dear juliuspro,  those children couldnt talk, were in diapers ( at the age 3 and 6) the older learned to use the toilet at the age of 6 learning that from his older sister who is normal. The family had a big closed garden where they played a lot, so it wasnt dangerous for them there, i never had to restrict them physically, but i remember hugging them and massaging them in order to calm them down. They watched a lot tv, sometimes had fights about toys they didnt share, it was kinda ok there, in general they reminded me 2 year olds as if their mental growth has stopped at that age. I mean they were really small, so it was easy. Maybe once i had to grab him and to bring to home on my hands when he came screaming from school, but me and other woman, we were not cruel , we found it sad, that the boy was so sad. it was all about calming him down. Hope it helps.

Thank you for the insight!

[Tyr]

Of course it's abuse. It is the initiation of force and completely antithetical to peaceful parenting. The fact that an infant cannot negotiate their needs verbally only means that a parent must negotiate and acquiesce to the non-verbal cues of the child. The fact that an autistic(or otherwise impaired) child never grows out of the stage where their needs dominate the needs of the parent is NOT an excuse for the parent to use force.

Of course I have IMMENSE sympathy for parents of children who will need this level of care, but it's not the fault of the child either.

[Tyr]

i think if autistic people are under a lot of threat to harm themselves, then ABA is ok. 

Otherwise i  agree with the woman from 1st video: it can make them to do anything other people say. They dont have their own judgement.

2nd video:is a  "dog whisperer" thing.  

I worked shortly with 2 autistic boys, so i think i would have been better for them to stay more at home (age 3 and 6)  but they used to go to special school 4 days a week, which made them aggressive, they always used to come home screaming and crying. 

maybe If you keep them more at  home till older age (maybe 12-15) ,then AbA is not that necessary..

I remember particularly, that the boy of the age of 6 didnt talk, but i  taught him to sing that was weird and nice,he  doesnt talk, but he does sing that was Jingle bell christmas song mostly

Of course putting them in school made them aggressive. This is what happens to all children in public schools. All children nee individual attention from their parents, being separated from your mother at a young age and put in a school for most of the day is abuse in and of itself.

[AccuTron]

I just watched the third one.  What a punch in the gut.  From above posts, I realize there's a spectrum of considerations, but from the autistic woman in the video, it couldn't be more clear.  It is torture.  Like sitting in red ants and told not to move.  With the info from just this one video, it seems the practitioner of these things completely misses what is really going on with the child.   

 

The one with the mother seems...I skipped a few sections in the last half...like it might just be the bare bone necessity of the situation.  The man here is clearly not equivalent to the woman in the third video.

 

The one with the therapist...again I skipped portions of the last half...seemed reasonable in approach, perhaps a little too quickly paced at points, but that's my naive view, maybe not the reality.

[Stephen Jennings]

i think if autistic people are under a lot of threat to harm themselves, then ABA is ok. 

Otherwise i  agree with the woman from 1st video: it can make them to do anything other people say. They dont have their own judgement.

2nd video:is a  "dog whisperer" thing.  

I worked shortly with 2 autistic boys, so i think i would have been better for them to stay more at home (age 3 and 6)  but they used to go to special school 4 days a week, which made them aggressive, they always used to come home screaming and crying. 

maybe If you keep them more at  home till older age (maybe 12-15) ,then AbA is not that necessary..

I remember particularly, that the boy of the age of 6 didnt talk, but i  taught him to sing that was weird and nice,he  doesnt talk, but he does sing that was Jingle bell christmas song mostly

 

My boy and i have Asperger's, and in pre-school it was terrible for him.

 

We sought out the best (Ofsted) school in our area, for regular kids, this is no special school.

They began immediately with constant prompting, it was like shadowing him and reminding.

At first we were dubious, but it started to work, Jacob begin to improve, fit in, make friends.

 

He hated having a 1-1 but now loves her, In the U.K we are not as full on as that lady in the vid, but it is a diluted version.

He gets art and Lego therapy which he loves.

Jacob is high end on the spectrum, but not as high as some severely autistic children, and i am torn as to whether the condensed version would work for more high end autistic children, i cannot comment on that, i haven't lived it.

 

Now i can guarantee that my son would have been at danger to himself, because he lives in a world of his own a lot, but this therapy has made jake self aware and conscious of his behavior, he is learning actions and consequences.

But most of all he is the happiest he has been, all he (not us) wanted was to not be different.

The thought of him being kept at home till he was 12-15 would have been horrible for him, because it's not what he wanted.