Self esteem, social anxiety, patterns of my parents and my future.

[Alamut]

Oh hai guys Long time lurker finally "manning up" to speak, or better yet, to ask someone for advice or even help. I'm 30 years old guy from Europe, not married, no kids, but in a long term stable relationship. I work, I make enough money and still I have the Void, it's been haunting me for quite some time now, and it's hard to actually pinpoint when it all started, but if anyone here is interested in guiding me, helping or giving me some advice, engaging in conversation and help me figure this one out - I would be endlessly thankful for it.

 

The reason I even found this place and lurked was naturally due to Stef's videos, I watched them and they made me think about my ways and I would say they made me grow in that psychological sense, if that's even the right term.

 

Anyhow, where do I begin. I guess the best thing is to start at home. Parents, well they are quite a pair. Without going into details, they're split, but live in the same house. They don't do anything married couple does, except occasionally chat or couple of time a year eat lunch together. My father uses his part (floor) of the house (it's somewhat big so I guess space isn't a problem) and he spends most of his time there, on the computer, playing games, watching movies, photos, etc. He has brothers that he rarely goes visiting, also for most of my life I noticed that he has on-off relations with his close relatives and even brothers, so at one point he might be talking to one of his brothers, and then they feud, and so on. I can't remember when was the last time they come over for a dinner.

 

My mom lives on another floor, downstairs, and she runs her own business. Up until couple of years ago, my father helped her with that business but he doesn't anymore. She also spends her days browsing the internet, reading books, she has good relationship with her sisters so she visits them a lot.

 

Enter - me. When I was in high school that was when I first started noticing how bad the relationship between them is. They would fight often, of course I would watch, my sister would watch it, then we were invited to "discuss" those fights and I remember some days where we would sit with them at the table pontificating who said what and what tone did he use and who occused someone of something for literally hours and hours and hours. I do remember feeling drained and exhausted after those "sessions". They were common.

 

In high school, I moved from the house and lived in a rented apartment with roommates, close to school. On fridays, either mom or dad would come to pick me up and take me home. Every ride home consisted of complaining about either "her" or "him", depends on who got to pick me up. They had a serious crisis around that time, and literally inches from divorce and they flaked out. They decided it would be better to just sleep on separate floors of the house. As far as I know, none of them ever had any relationships outside the marriage, even if their marriage is nothing but formal now.

 

When I finished my high school, I decided I won't go to any college. I didn't  feel like going to college. My parents were ok with it, and all they said was that I would need to find a job. So I did. I worked in a small business that my buddy was running. I use the term buddy very loosely. Looking back, he was a manipulative scumbag, but at that point I guess I needed a friend outside the house so I was very motivated to prove myself to him. He probably smelled how stupid and naive I was and hired me for peanuts. I didn't care, as long as I had money to fill my car up couple of times a month. Looking back, he was pretty obviously manipulative but on a low level. Despite the low level manipulation, I was still playing along because I think I was more damaged goods back then than I am now.

 

He would sweet talk me into working overtime and promised me "a cut" from some job he just negotiated, and then he would blame me for being either late or not delivering perfect material, hence not getting the cut. One time I overheard a neighbor, completely accidentaly, talking about job that he used the company from my buddy (where I worked, doh) and how much he got charged for that project. I was listening how much money my "buddy" got from my overtime work. And I didn't get none of it. But the other day, I was getting ridiculed in front of his buddies that visited the offices how lazy I am and how much time I waste on doing things that clients don't accept. He didn't know I overheard the client talking different story.

 

I worked there for 3 years. LOL. So after those 3 years I got offered another job. It was another sociopath, albeit much more succesful ($$$) than my buddy. This one had flashy cars and flashy businessess. He told me I'm he's #1 guy, how I'm the nicest person from all the people he worked with, how he'll make me rich etc etc. We went out together, he would buy me drinks, introduced me to bunch of people etc. But when it got to money, he would either give me absolutely horrible chump change, or I would get the standard - I will promote you to everyone I know, I'll tell them you did this. It took me 2 years to cut that person out of my life.

 

At one point I decided to detach myself from the world, I just isolated myself. My phone was off, I just stayed in my room most of the time, computers, internet, movies...day after day. Eventually I would think and ponder about my direction and where am I heading in life.

 

I said to myself I need to drastically change my life and I had that thought in my mind for weeks, along with weird and almost tangible sense of infinite motivation, I can't describe it. I was just starting going out with my GF, we were couple of months in the relationship. So I told her - what if I move to your city - instead of wasting time looking for job here. Because I was out of work when we met, forgot to say that. And flat broke, and by flat I mean flat. Gas money was luxury.

 

Anyway, I made the move. Borrowed some change from my dad (you could buy 2 pair of Nike's with that money) and went to her city. Found a job after couple of days and it turned out to be...great paying job. But the boss, when the work relation ended, 3 years later, proved to be a scam artist. But that's not the point, it might be my luck or something. But money was coming in regularly and the work was good for my own experience and career, so fuck it.

 

As I mentioned, the boss was a scam artist and got his business shutdown and he decided that he will flee the city. Sorry if this sounds like a movie, but that's the shortest scoop of those events I can manage to write. Either way, as soon as I heard that, I panicked. My low self esteem relapsed and I told my GF - I just lost my job, let's move in to my parents house until we get back on feet.

 

Why did I say this, I don't know - this is why I started this thread, obviously I need help but I'm not comfortable going to my neighborhood therapists, I'm way too insecure to show my real face in front of someone and give him my intimacy. Sorry. So back to the story, we moved back to my parents house. We stayed there for 6 months and it turned from my feeling optimistic for some reason (could be some false "I'm home, no more paying rent" financial relief) to complete bizzaro. We stayed in my room, which is on the same floor of the house my mom is using. That relation didn't go well, it deteriorated quickly, old arguments from old fights arose to the surface in a week.

 

Don't want to go into much detail, let me just say that for those 6 months, my GF and me ate lunch in my room and basically never went in the living room, and my mom didn't speak with my GF for one whole month. It's really...just lame and sad. So, lets fast forward things, I decided we can't tolerate that anymore, we moved to another apartment, the owner was kind enough to give us 3 months "free" when she heard our sappy story, in those 3 months I found a job...

 

That job was kinda important and whoever's reading to this point, this is an imporant paragraph here. It was a big company, for the first time in my life I was surrounded by 100+ workers, big offices, hallways etc. I never worked in that kind of environment in my life before. What was obvious to me is that I can't stand half of those people there. I coulnd't stand the daily chit chat from half of them. I was confused to see grown people acting so childish. Here I was, 30 years old, probably one of the youngest guys there, and everyone else was just...so...silly. The topics they would talk about, their outlook on things in life, it was just strange to me and I counldn't hide it.

 

That was always my problem, in any social environment. I never was able to hide what I feel about people, either by being condescending or just body language...I can't explain it, but I know I was being rude, but I couldn't help it, and I still can't.

 

I had good realtionships with couple of people in the company, I think the common trait of them was that they were - smart and normal. They had interesting topics, cool attitude and so on. Maybe I'm a snob in a way, but I was cool with them because they really seemed interesting people, the kind I would like to have around myself. The ones I didn't like, I didn't bother to even be decent to them, I acted like they werent there.

 

At one point, after couple of months, I got sick of the whole process. I quit and found a better job. At this point, I'm making the most money I ever made in my life, and by far. And now that I finally  reached the "I just hope I start making good money and all my problems oughta be solved" level, I realize money isn't happiness. But it's a great thing, but it isn't a universal solution.

 

Without stressing about money, something that haunted my throughout my 20s, I started thinking about friends. I have none. For example, if I decided to marry tomorrow, I literally don't know who my best man would be. That's sad. But I need to figure out how to fix it. I'm constantly worried about my appearance. I'm not the best looking guy, since I put on 40 pounds from my high school, and I struggle to cut it. I think I'm an emotional eater.

 

I'm a mess and I need guidance, advice, whatever will work. Hope to get someone that can relate to some of these things and exchange ideas. Till next time...thanks.

[TheSchoolofAthens]

Thank you for sharing your story! It isn't an easy thing to do. I would first like to say that I am sorry for your situation as a child. Parents that don't get along can be absolute hell, and the way they would bring their kids into the arguments must have been a series of truly traumatic experiences.

You also mentioned that you were lonely throughout your 20s, which I can totally relate to since I just turned 20 and I am friendless. If I got married - I just broke up with my girlfriend - I wouldn't have a best man either. Systems of support are very important to have, so I'm happy we all have this community! I imagine your childhood has played a big role in your feelings of self worth, which would explain why you struggle to lose weight even though you are consciously aware of your gains. It is good that you understand that you are an emotional eater. I am no expert, but perhaps your childhood which consisted of your parents tearing into your emotional bond and causing all sorts of conflict in the household, as well as your emotions within you internally, really did a lot of damage. I imagine it isn't easy to talk about your emotions or connect with people, correct me if I'm wrong but combining your childhood with your loneliness in your 20s, you probably didn't get a lot of examples of effective communication. This is why you feel like a snob and have social anxiety at work, I'd be willing to bet. I had an internship at the Charles Koch Institute and I was surrounded by libertarian-republicans and "limited government" types of people who I completely disagreed with, but I had to communicate civilly and effectively. I can understand why you might not have the best communication skills right now - again, just by understanding your history - but the good thing is that, of course, that is something that can be worked on!

I plan on seeing a therapist soon, and I have my insecurities as well. I will NOT have a male therapist because it would make me very uncomfortable as I had a stronger emotional connection with my mom, and I feel as if a female therapist will be much easier to talk to as a male therapist would seem too much like a father figure that I didn't have and it would be stressful and depressing - I just wouldn't connect with a male the same way when opening up like that, unless it was someone like Stefan who I trust from simply watching his videos. But with your situation, you seem too nervous to even have someone in the same town know that you go to therapy (the therapist herself.)

She/he legally can't disclose information about you and I know that at least in America, when you first contact a therapist you leave a confidential voice mail that goes straight to the machine. Your privacy is of key importance! A therapist is not their to judge you for being in therapy, no more than a basketball coach will judge you for wanting to play basketball! 1) They see dollar signs so they welcome your business, and more importantly 2) They want your business, and that means they have to be effective and helpful if they want to keep your business until you reasonably don't need it any longer. In other words, it is exciting that there are therapists around locally that can help you!

I think that finding a professional that you will feel comfortable with to open up with will be a liberating experience. You definitely have a lot to talk about, and whether you've realized it or not, you've identified a/the potential major root: childhood. You are on the path to self knowledge! That is something to be very proud of! I am happy that you wrote this post!

My advice, again, is to seek a professional who is an expert in the field. I also recommend reading Nathaniel Branden. Specifically, I recommend reading "The Six Pillars of Self Esteem" as that is what I am reading right now and it is just phenomenal and insightful.

I hope this has helped!

[Alamut]

Thanks for your advice, appreciate it.

 

As for therapist, let me get that out of the way first. My father, mother and my mothers father are all incredibly stubborn people, and by some accident, it rubbed on me as well haha. So with that being said, my pride, or vanity, or whatever, insecurity, cannot allow me to walk into someones office and start spilling my private beans. I know there are million reasons to do it, I know none of the therapists care about me per se, but that's also one of my gripes. They see me as a customer, hence they will try to either milk me for my money or deal with me in the most efficient way. None of those 2 angles sound like help to me, it's help to them, to their bank account. I don't believe in paying for empathy.

 

I believe that's what I need. Someone to read my story, give me a striaght answer, maybe give some advice, experience, or point out things that I said that could be the root of my problems. Whoever does it on a free message board to a complete stranger must have some noble motivation to do it, not just bank account motivation. Sorry for the rant

 

Anyway, you mentioned childhood being the problem. I believe it could be, seems perfectly logical. Kids are naive, not accustomed to the eternal dynamics of deceit, bait, maim and switchery that goes on in the adult world =) and they need guidance, role models. My parents certainly didn't look at it that way. But I understand them, I really do. They got tangled up in a bad relationship, they didn't have the solution for it, or they didn't have the guts to go thru with the solution (separation) and so they ended up staying together in the same house but speaking to each other 2 times a week.

 

And kids got in the middle of it. My sister was on my mothers "good list" and no matter how much I tried to act "Swiss", I always ended up labeled on the fathers side". My mom often would call me by my last name, probably to amplify the "team father" rhetoric. I won't go into details of the conflicts, they were regular and ranged from cringe worthy to tear inducing. I won't recollect them since I don't see the point, other than just pointing out that they happened.

 

What baffled me then and still baffles me now is our dynamic when we're separated. Dig this;

 

When I first moved out of the house, for high school years, I felt my mother expressed nicer emotions towards me, while father was somewhat distant. But when I moved back after high school, I could talk with my father for hours (in his section of the house lol) but conversations with my mom would always steer into arguments. Always. It's the exact same situation with my sister. When I'm home, we can get in a fight over literally nothing, in a minute. She's the type to start an argument, will all of her upset emotions showing, over someone leaving the doors open. Or TV being too loud. But when I'm away, she sends messages, we talk on the phone like we're the movie version of brother and sister. I don't get it.

 

Like I noted in my thread title, I fear of those family traits showing up in my own life...I fear of becoming like them. They say you eventually turn into things you run away from the most. I hope that's not true. But when I'm arguing with my GF, I get the feeling that I'm talking too much and that reminds me of the arguments from my childhood.

I always try to bring a point across and I don't know when to stop. People hate this. I didn't notice this only in real life, I noticed it online as well. I can't hold my tongue on certain issues, I can't hold back with comments about things I find opposite of my beliefs, and I come off as an arrogant twat probably most of the time. Which can be traced back to my number of friends, which is in sub 5 numbers.

 

Hence patterns. My father also has no friends. He is argumentative a lot. I watched him arguing with his own father (he was 80 something) to a point he yelled him out of the house (!). I watched my father arguing with my mothers sister and yelling her out of the house also. And then when he talks about it he says he's sorry for it and he doesn't intend to be like that, but he just can't hold back saying it in such loud and borderline harsh manner.

 

I don't know what to do with that problem. How to fix, mitigate etc.

[Alamut]

Part 2 of my confessions

 

I would like to title this Fear of / and Responsibility

 

Even in high-school, the amount of arguments I watched, over-heard or attended between my parents was staggering, frequent, up to a point I knew basically each of their spiels. I knew what my mom will shout about, and I knew what my father will shout about. The circlejerk was depressing, boring, upsetting, all of those things, but it was also unfortunately frequent. So back in those years I started thinking about what were they saying. I guess I tried to play Switzerland even back then, trying to stay neutral.

 

I understood both of their arguments. My mom would yell at my father how he's stagnant, how he's not employed (he earned money doing odd jobs), how the house they live still isn't finished because he starts working on something and moves to something else and then to something else and then to something elser than that lol. She was always pointing out how much of her money she invested there. This was the part of the argument where my father would snap (naturally) and start defending the "money" argument, talking about "marriage" and "50/50" and blah blah, doesn't matter.

 

But what stuck with me is how many times my mother said the world "responsibility" to him. To a point I kind of hate hearing it today.

 

Although, come to think of it, in a way, she was right in that regard. The house is still unfinished, half of it looks like storage, and my father actually volunteered (yes, free of charge) for some "friends" when they mentioned that they were redecorating their house. I seen it happen multiple times in my life. Picture this; my father stumbles on some acquaintance, chats with him, the guy mentions something about "redoing the house" or whatever. My father offers to help, because he really is handy man sort of guy, and then he starts working, spends weeks going there, eventually they get in the fight and then my dad says to me when I ask him about it - oh that guy's a total jackass, an idiot.

 

I can't even number how many similar situations like this happened.

 

I connected this to my pattern in the 20's when I started working on my own. I couldn't do 2 things - say "no" to someone asking me for my services (computer repair) and I also couldn't charge "too much" because I had guilty conscience about it, so I always lowballed myself to the max.

 

Did I skip from task to task in my life? Hell yes. Hobby to hobby. Not THAT many times, but I did. That could be either good or a bad thing, can't say yet, but I certainly didn't have discipline.

 

And now I have this fear. Now that my money situation is better than ever. I realized money won't solve my problems. When I was flat broke - I told myself that it will. But it won't. With money that I have now, I have literally every and all means to start something that was always my dream and desire.

 

I can not think of one excuse for doing it - well, except this block of text and my inner mental games. The only thing that stings me, the only trace of jealousy in me, isn't evoked by money. I have friends who are few years older than me driving exotic sportscars. I don't know if anyone believes me but I really ain't jealous of them, at all, one bit. The only thing I feel when I go to their garage is - I would love to play with toys like this one day. But there's just one thing that stings me. Doesn't matter what it is, I don't want to put any specifics. What's important is that I have the means now and I'm still not doing it.

 

I can hear my mom yelling that damn "responsibility" spiel to my father. Or my mother saying that I'm just like him. It's horrific. Is it a curse that can't be broken? Why can't I just do it?

 

For me to go thru with that "thing" would mean that I would need to put myself out there. It can not be avoided in my "dream" scenario. And I can't see myself being subjected, I'm too frail. I have insecurities, about my looks (thinning hair, yes) and weight (I'm going to the gym regularly now) and I get the feeling people would go at me because of my inability (picked that up at home) to keep anything to myself when it comes to negative things. For example, I can't stand people with leftists way of thinking and looking at the world. Not only they seem stupid, but they also frustrate me and I know I wouldn't be able to refrain to at least lunging some smug mean insult towards their way.

 

Am I coping more reasons to avoid my dream from realizing? Or am I honestly concerned about these things?

 

I can't tell. LOL.