My problem with immigrants: tolerating intolerance( includes article)

[laowai]

Hi everyone!

 

Ok so here is my issue! 

 

Recently I was walking around my local shopping center and noticed all the small businesses such as the local bakery and newsagent are run by minorities and I only see minorities working there.

 

Meanwhile when I go to the larger local run businesses I see people from all different walks of life working there.

 

This got me thinking about the current immigration situation in Europe. And I thought to myself, why do immigrants who come to western countries act in a parasitic way towards their adopted countries instead of living in symbiosis with them?

 

They expect everyone to spend a lot of time and money on them; yet when it comes to them giving back to the community they do very little.

 

I am annoyed that I am refused work at these types of businesses based on my race- and I wonder if they simply are not intelligent enough to think in a way that is not racially centrist. Sometimes I think they are all reading from the same book.

 

To demonstrate my point, when you look at my country Australia you will see we are the most diverse country in the region; and are anything but racist. Yet, our asian neighbors engage in the trendy pastime of calling us the 'racist nation' and never bother looking at why they have such xenophobic policies themselves. The truth is most countries outside the west impose their own 'white only policy' and exist as homogeneous nazi like states. 

 

I also wish Stefan would stop mentioning Japan in the same breath as Germany. If anything these two countries show the differences between the west and the rest. Japan has changed little since WW2, in terms of how it views the outside world. It has refused to sign peace treaties over silly territorial disputes. It prefers to keep tensions with Russia going and puts the safety of it's nation behind a few small islands. To me this outright disregard to engage in peace shows how Japan has no regrets for it's war past and no genuine desire for peace; or it would not risk it's nation's future safety like that.

 

Also the people of Japan demonstrate extreme racism to outsiders; and it's common to see whole seats vacated by Japanese people if a foreigner is sitting on a train; despite the train being crowded. I believe the conditions are still the same within Japan that lead it to go to war in the first place and could lead to future wars. Another double standard I am tired of is how westerners are held up to litmus tests that nobody else is. For example Hitler was condemned after the war and denounced. While Hirohito was allowed to wiggle out and evade prosecution, living to a ripe old age and celebrated as a national hero with a lavish funeral ceremony costing tens of millions of dollars.

 

Don't forget Japan is the nation that preferred to automate its car industry and give jobs to robots rather than have migrants fill those jobs. I don't care what anyone says; choosing machines over people is not a sign of a developed and accepting mind.  http://satwcomic.com/robots

 

When you look at Germany and Japan pales by comparison. Germany has actively tried to change it's internal culture and be more welcoming to outsiders and has owned up to it's past. 

 

Anyway the following article is a must read for anyone investigating the context of the refugee crisis in Europe from the wider perspective of non western countries and their immigration policies.

 

I am just someone who is sick and tired of double standards and tolerating intolerance from migrants.

 

http://www.woroni.com.au/comment/if-australia-is-racist-what-does-that-make-japan-and-south-korea/

 

Notice my name- laowai- is a derogatory term used by the Chinese to refer to outsiders. I only use it because I am sick and tired of hearing it every time I go to my local Chinese restaurant. Ok rant over.

[Alan C.]

I don't care what anyone says; choosing machines over people is not a sign of a developed and accepting mind.

 

You think society would be better off we returned to the good old days when people harvested crops by hand instead of using industrial farm equipment, and dug holes and trenches with pickaxes and shovels instead of using excavators?

[laowai]

Most crops are still harvested by hand, especially fruits; and many developing countries still use pickaxes and shovels. It's only in the 'west' that automation exists to any widespread extent. So from that perspective I don't really understand your point. 

 

I'm talking about industrial automation in factories- jobs that cater to people living in cities and which generate substantial employment across economies. 

 

But I am not saying we should go back to the stone ages. All I am doing is pointing out the intentions behind the technology; that's all.

 

I am just putting it in perspective; I just think it was an odd choice for a country with one of the most controversial race records in recent history. Wasn't the whole point of us defeating Japan so we could make them stop acting in this discriminatory manner?

 

I mean, no matter how much you try and pretty it up, it's still a very bad look to automate your entire car industry when you could have offered those jobs and the economic prosperity that comes with them to people in your immediate region who were negatively affected by your countries recent war actions. The selfishness they demonstrated is simply incredible, and kind of proves my point about resterners- they are only in it for themselves. Just my two cents. 

[neeeel]

Wasn't the whole point of us defeating Japan so we could make them stop acting in this discriminatory manner?

 

 

 

No

[laowai]

I can't believe this. Why is hate so trendy. I don't hate anyone. Why do others have to hate me?

[Torero]

Hi everyone!

 

Ok so here is my issue! 

 

Recently I was walking around my local shopping center and noticed all the small businesses such as the local bakery and newsagent are run by minorities and I only see minorities working there.

 

Meanwhile when I go to the larger local run businesses I see people from all different walks of life working there.

 

This got me thinking about the current immigration situation in Europe. And I thought to myself, why do immigrants who come to western countries act in a parasitic way towards their adopted countries instead of living in symbiosis with them?

 

They expect everyone to spend a lot of time and money on them; yet when it comes to them giving back to the community they do very little.

 

I am annoyed that I am refused work at these types of businesses based on my race-

 

Hi Laowai,

 

I recently visited Europe again and the same appeared to me. I've lived there for the most part of my life, and got used to these minority-dominated (so becoming majority) neighbourhoods first hand. But now, it was very apparent in Barcelona. There all the waiters (!) were suddenly Chinese. That was not the case 10 years ago...

 

The point is; there's no need nor reason to get frustrated and annoyed about it.

 

Immigrants brought in by huge governments (and nothing can top Europe in (semi-)governmental structures...) are not parasites. They may have come unvoluntarily or voluntarily and want to stay in the richest countries of Europe (state debt not taken into the equation...) but does that make them parasites?

 

They choose to migrate.

They do not choose to be pampered; that's given to them. They essentially are victims of this huggie industry of "social" workers in European countries. They are their livestock.

 

It's no surprise that the governments of Eastern European countries, despite having profited from vast EU-funds divided by the European "Union" nightmare project, are not willing to accept (many) refugees. They have much less of the huggie industry, the biggest statist industry in terms of money and especially manpower, present than Northwestern European EU countries like Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, etc. Less room to keep statists "working"...

 

The money given to these refugees and "refugees" and accepted by them, the bizarre inequality in rights and obligations with the autochtonous population they got confronted with, is not something they chose. They got these "Unchosen Positive Obligations" (just listening to the podcast) against their asking for it.

 

You cannot call them parasites then. Parasitical behaviour comes from choice, not against it.

 

The people who start small businesses are even less of parasites; they generally have a freer market (including opening hours) than bigger, more traditional businesses.

 

If you do not succeed in finding a job, you need to shape one yourself. List your qualities and look for what best fits you. If you are good at what you do, no migrant, person of other race (or any other senseless label to hide behind and claim racism ) will push you away from the job market.

 

If you stay at home waiting for them to provide you a job, you may find a job at a fancy fair, showing the longest beard of all-time...

[dsayers]

They expect everyone to spend a lot of time and money on them

 

I think you have the chronology backwards. The places they are moving to have an established track record or stealing from the productive to give some to the non-productive. This incentivized people in that same nation to be less productive AND for people on the outside to go there for "free" stuff. It's adaptive to try and achieve your goals with maximum efficiency. The problem is in the initiation of the use of force in the name of the State that has to take place in order for people to accurately anticipate going there to be a path of less resistance for them.

 

 

I don't care what anyone says; choosing machines over people is not a sign of a developed and accepting mind.

 

Is starting a thought with "I don't care what anyone says" a sign of an accepting mind? For that matter, if this is one of your values, then why did you use a computer and the internet to share this idea instead of hand writing it and snail mailing it to be published by a newspaper or magazine?

 

If I were you, I would look into why I demonize efficiency even though my every effort from a biological standpoint is about maximizing efficiency.

[laowai]

Oh seriously. It's about the notion behind the technology, not the technology it'self. I am questioning things and providing an alternative commentary as I see it. Sheesh. It's obvious you have never lost your job to a machine or had to worry too much about being out of work. Save me the psychoanalysis. What's with this place, your all so busy trying to one up one another intellectually you are completely unable to hold a discussion without resorting to personal jibes and staying on topic.

[dsayers]

I am questioning things

 

Just not your own capacity for error as a human being. When confronted with the fact that you're contradicting yourself, you get upset with the person pointing it out instead of the people responsible for leading you to competing beliefs and/or not providing for you the capability of recognizing this or addressing it in a healthy fashion.

 

It's obvious you have never lost your job to a machine or had to worry too much about being out of work.

 

How do you know? My ability to identify that "efficiency is bad" contradicts "efficiency is good" is not a reflection on my job history. In what way does your lashing out identify how what I posted was false?

[laowai]

Do you ever actually listen to yourself. Your unbearably condescending. And now I see why the whole system is a mess; economic students such as yourself running the bogus financial systems that dictate how the world works. Cutting out the human element. "Efficiency" poo hoo. We are doomed. Goodbye I give up trying discuss real  issues here. Your the type of people who fall in love with ideas, not people; and who end up dying alone surrounded by your precious books. Good luck with that. Moving on. Bye.

[MagnumPI]

Do you ever actually listen to yourself. Your unbearably condescending. And now I see why the whole system is a mess; economic students such as yourself running the bogus financial systems that dictate how the world works. Cutting out the human element. "Efficiency" poo hoo. We are doomed. Goodbye I give up trying discuss real  issues here. Your the type of people who fall in love with ideas, not people; and who end up dying alone surrounded by your precious books. Good luck with that. Moving on. Bye.

Hey, these robots... Who designs, engineers, build, installs, commissions, programs them? And their support systems, whether it be conveyors, cooling systems for data centers, pneumatics, energy consumption metering, sterilizing/cleaning, then all the same pieces... For the sterilization equipment. Then you got pharmaceuticals and physically small produced goods that can't be reasonable made at all by human hands. Or Amazon distribution centers and logistics, so you can get your vintage candy and neat-o pool cue in 4 days with free shipping?

 

It's not that anyone here(except you) is cutting out the human element. It's that they're more advanced than to worry about the few people still performing un-skilled, manual labor that is only a few steps away from complete automation anyway(and should be) in that the goods produced will now be cheaper for all. And if there's a learning curve while society realizes that the state is hindering advancement while the parasites melt away from their own apathy, so be it. You don't get to hold back technology & innovation because you got laid off from the potato chip plant.

[laowai]

Hey, these robots... Who designs, engineers, build, installs, commissions, programs them? And their support systems, whether it be conveyors, cooling systems for data centers, pneumatics, energy consumption metering, sterilizing/cleaning, then all the same pieces... For the sterilization equipment. Then you got pharmaceuticals and physically small produced goods that can't be reasonable made at all by human hands. Or Amazon distribution centers and logistics, so you can get your vintage candy and neat-o pool cue in 4 days with free shipping?

 

It's not that anyone here(except you) is cutting out the human element. It's that they're more advanced than to worry about the few people still performing un-skilled, manual labor that is only a few steps away from complete automation anyway(and should be) in that the goods produced will now be cheaper for all. And if there's a learning curve while society realizes that the state is hindering advancement while the parasites melt away from their own apathy, so be it. You don't get to hold back technology & innovation because you got laid off from the potato chip plant.

 

Potato chip plant....so the majority of the worlds workers, who have not got University degrees, are just seen as obsolete, out of date and irrelevant. Great. You won't come to that same conclusion when all the jobs higher up the ladder are taken by immigrants who exclude others. Don't know if you noticed by many many men in the west are not completing education, and our Universities are swamped with internationals. It is obvious that in the future many of our higher paid jobs will be taken by immigrants. It's so easy to dismiss a notion when you think it's irrelevant. 

 

Robots are highly inefficient, and when they mess up they destroy large amounts of product. For example CD polishing software, if it has a bug, can destroy thousands of CD's in a very short time. Would this happen with people, no. 

 

They probably employ a handful of Engineers to undertake those tasks of maintaining the robots. You all seem to be unable to comprehend that I am not talking about taking away automation altogether, and I agree automation works better in some instances; but at the time when Japan automated it's car industry was when everyone else was still making them mostly by hand. It just seems unusual they would do that, but listening to all the economic people on this forum I can now see how you would grapple with my notion of providing people with jobs at the expense of 'efficiency'.

 

Complicated products are mostly still assembled by people, robots really only make simple parts which are assembled by people later. Look at an iphone factory assembly line- it's all manned by people, not robots.

 

I don't know why I'm being subjected to a personal attack about my job status. Sure I am looking for a part time job while I undertake University. And I am actually doing an Engineering degree myself and have an interest in robotics- which is why I am all the more concerned with the way things are going.

 

I was going to switch over to Economics, as Engineering is incredibly dull, but now I see that would be a mistake also. Maybe I will just go do an arts degree and work as a 'potato' factory worker. 

[dsayers]

Hang on, you don't get to just repeat yourself as if valid counterpoints haven't been made without demonstrating in what ways they're flawed.

 

It is obvious that in the future many of our higher paid jobs will be taken by immigrants.

 

If you think only certain people should be hired, then only hire those people. In fact, in your opening post, you looked down your nose at people who were doing just that. It's none of your concern who OTHERS hire.

 

Robots are highly inefficient

 

Then where's the problem? If you don't care for people being displaced by automation, and automation is highly inefficient, then those using it will be put out of business by those who only use people, just like you want.

 

You all seem to be unable to comprehend

 

"I am questioning things and providing an alternative commentary as I see it. Sheesh. Save me the psychoanalysis. You are completely unable to hold a discussion without resorting to personal jibes and staying on topic." It seems you cannot help but put forth standards for other people and exempt yourself.

 

Japan automated it's car industry was when everyone else was still making them mostly by hand. It just seems unusual they would do that

 

laowai is instantly transmitting his ideas to a global audience via the internet when options of taking longer to record and transmit to a smaller audience are available. It just seems unusual that he would do that. Do you use a horse drawn carriage to travel more than a couple miles? Am I evil because when I wanted to clean my floors earlier, I grabbed a broom instead of picking up every speck by hand? Did you toss your food into the over or a microwave or did you grab some flint and tinder after gathering a bunch of kindling? You cannot claim efficiency is bewildering or problematic when since birth, your every impulse has been to do things with greater efficiency... still.

[laowai]

So somehow cherry picking is going to make your arguments valid.

 

I already said I had no problem with automation or technology, why do you come back trying to discredit my notions by comparing technologies that are computer based and those that are not.

 

I am merely pointing out Japan imposing xenophobic policies after it's WW2 history; something it again appears to be doing with it's 'robot evolution' And I then wonder if the spirit of multiculturalism that the west so readily embraces why are we accepting these double standards. If Australia tried doing something similar we would be labelled 'the racist nation'.

 

Yeah your right I don't give a damn who hires who; it doesn't bother me one bit that I can't get a job because the local Pakistani manager will only hire other south asians or the local bakery will only hire people of Chinese descent. Nope doesn't affect me one bit.

 

I am merely pointing out an observation; crucify me for it if you want. What do I care.

[dsayers]

So somehow cherry picking is going to make your arguments valid.

 

1) Not showing where they fall apart certainly does nothing towards proving them to be invalid. 2) "cherry picking" is manipulative language. You're arbitrarily saying that unless I respond to everything you say or nothing you say, you can just ignore the truth in whatever is said. That I am not free to choose what to respond to and what not to. 3) The entirety of my contributions in this thread have been to demonstrate where you either contradict yourself or put forth a standard for others and exempt yourself. If you'd like to me to respond to more or less, then provide more/less honest, rational ideas.

 

I am merely pointing out Japan imposing xenophobic policies

 

If you say to me that Japan automated its auto industry when others were building by hand, to me it looks like you're talking about automation vs not (you know, the only variable that YOU included). I don't get that you're trying to talk about policies or xenophobia. Frankly, I don't get how somebody can look at an industry increasing their efficiency (natural process, happens every day) and presume it is the result of national policy.

 

the local bakery will only hire people of Chinese descent. Nope doesn't affect me one bit.

 

So what you're saying is that if you were an accomplished baker, who brought them an item that they didn't already sell, that was so good that your friends and family were willing to pay you to make more of, and knew how to make it on a larger scale, they'd turn you away because of your ethnicity? If you could provide that much value to them and they would turn you away, then that shouldn't be a place you'd want to work for because they clearly cannot run a business effectively.

 

crucify me for it if you want. What do I care.

 

Actually all of what I've done is ask you to account for your own claims and/or clarify your own communications. Could it be that the Chinese bakery won't hire you because you lack good communication skills? That you become hostile in the face of correction? That you experience contempt for them as an "outsider" based on the color of their skin? I picked up on that in your opening post when you said "walks of life" when you meant ethnicity. The tragedy here is that you might very well be the victim of discrimination. When you contradict yourself habitually and lash out at anybody pointing this out or seeking clarifications, you lower your credibility.

 

Also, skip the not caring shtick. At the very least, you are demonstrating that you care enough to try and convince others you do not care. Maybe it was modeled for you that caring (like efficiency) is inherently bad.

[AncapFTW]

Wasn't the whole point of us defeating Japan so we could make them stop acting in this discriminatory manner?

You MIGHT be able to say that about the American civil war if you accept the explanation that it was about slavery (which it wasn't) but WWII and the attacks on Japan were because they were attacking the US and were allied with our enemies.  In fact, the only reason the US was even in WWII was because of Japan.  Before Pearl Harbor we weren't in the war, after it we joined quickly.

[laowai]

It's pretty obvious there is only one reason why someone would react in such an antagonizing manner regarding a thread about race. You all do really read from the same script. 

 

When did I say I experience contempt for anyone based on the colour of their skin. Stop putting words in my mouth. I see you do this all the time with other people on here- inferring things that are the product of your mind, and not of the OP's original intention.

 

I said I am sick and tired of tolerating intolerance. Double standards do nothing to engender a feeling of mutual respect. I feel frustration, not contempt. Xenophobic migration policies are not existing in a vacuum.

 

From your spelling I can see your in the US. Well good luck with that. Don't come crying to the internet when you come across this phenomenon.

 

 

[laowai]

Ugh I just came across this

 

http://www.hebaamin.com/arabian-street-artists-bomb-homeland-why-we-hacked-an-award-winning-series/

 

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkish-police-seize-islamic-state-coin-makers-1871252304

 

"...both of them are prophets of Islam and for that reason I will respect them both...." such a bigoted hypocrite trying to push his discrimination under the guise of understanding.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=om-a-qoI5qU

 

The west has gone to the dogs; I honestly don't give a damn about the future anymore or wasting my time on politics anymore. White people are the dumbest race- we could have had it all yet gave it away. We don't deserve to inherit the future.

 

Why did my last post get two -ve votes? Seriously we can use FACTS & SCIENCE to discredit multiculturalism; it's not racist or discriminatory- it's reality. The FACT every non western country is homogeneous or that every minority run small business is homogeneous is proof of where the real racism and discrimination lies.

 

Don't come crying to me when you wake up after realizing you no longer feel like your free. I am sick and tired of these immigrants sucking the life out of everything with every word they take. Yes I will tolerate intolerance because I am a better person than they could ever hope to be. At least I know I can be happy in life without having to judge others or gain my sense of self worth from looking down on others like they do with their snobby little insular communities.  Bye.

[laowai]

Food for thought: Feminism and Islam