utopian Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Not so long ago a relative of mine passed away, and me and my sister got our part of the inheritance. I do have a cousin, however, that was supposed to get his part, but his dad has the power to withhold the inheritance from him until he sees fit for my cousin to receive it. My cousin obviously wants it, but my uncle won't give it to him. The will is kinda vague on how willing my dead relative was in consideration of just handing the money to my cousin. So that is what I am wondering here, should my uncle be holding my cousin's inheritance from him? My cousin is not the most responsible guy, sure, but my uncle is not the most reasonable guy either. I have offered my cousin some financial advice if he ever wants it, and I am not sure how truly interested in it he is. My uncle argues my cousin is going to go blow all the money, and that my cousin needs to prove he can make it on his own before he gets the inheritance. While that seems somewhat valid, I never really liked my uncle that much, and I could see him holding my cousin's inheritance from my cousin just to control him, which would certainly be unjust. There is some validity to the idea that my cousin might be irresponsible with the money, and blow it all. Mistakes can happen to anyone, however, and I think everyone needs to go through some failures to learn their own life lessons. But, even if my cousin WAS going to blow all that money, shouldn't that be his right? I mean, it's his inheritance, who is to tell him he can't go blow it? I don't think that is what is going to happen, I think he is gonna spend a chunk of it stupidly and then be good with most of it. But if he wanted to take it all and blow it, who has the right to tell him otherwise? What do you anarchists (and other philosophers) think of this situation, and what would you tell my cousin and his dad?
DaVinci Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 It sounds like a control issue to me to be holding back the money. If the dad thinks his son (your cousin, right?) isn't responsible, then it seems reasonable to give him a chance to prove otherwise. Do A, B, and C responsible things and you get the money. Even then, the kid might just be doing the things to get the money, which is just more reason to believe it is a control issue and that it should not be withheld from him at all. If the money was left to him then give it to him, and if he blows it on lollipops and trading cards then whatever.
Sabras Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Unless your relative who passed away specifically mentioned that your cousin should not get the money until he proved himself then your uncle should not be withholding the money from him. You say that your uncle isn't exactly a reasonable guy - how sure are you that he will not spend the money himself? On the other hand, if your cousin is self destructive, then I think it could be reasonable in certain cases to withhold money from such person for their own good. You wouldn't give money to a drug addict, not because you don't think they deserve it, but because you know that they will self-destruct. Those are just my thoughts of course. My heartfelt condolences.
Kaz Lokuciewski Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 How old is he. My kids don't get there money from the trust until they're 25 in the paper, and even then under the supervision of trusted others who see they are not using it to spend on luxuries outside their pay grade.
utopian Posted October 2, 2015 Author Posted October 2, 2015 My cousin is 22. He knows how to be responsible (I'm pretty sure anyway) he's just kinda lazy. Kinda like my uncle. He seems like a lonely old guy, especially after he got divorced a while ago. Not very friendly and does not have many friends. He doesnt really go out much. I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that my uncle is just holding the money to be like "stick around and deal with me or you don't get your money" although he would never admit it. I don't think he would spend my cousin's inheritance. That would piss all of us off. I myself am confused about this. I am a very lucky guy who has always had comfortable grandparents and great grandparents happy to spoil me and leave me stuff. I was comfortable and spoiled, but also lucky enough to be interested in economics and such. I did not have to work hard, and now I see I missed more than just developing a work ethic. I was never out and about with coworkers making friends and learning social things. I work at a low end job right now because I find it fulfilling, and I am seeing what I missed. I think, if my cousin were to get his money, he might go through the same thing, but never realize anything. I don't know... I don't know what to make of it, my uncle is not the best guy to be holding it either.
st434u Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 What is stated in the will about when your cousin gets the money? Does it say that your uncle gets to decide when he gets it? The will is really all that matters. 1
utopian Posted October 3, 2015 Author Posted October 3, 2015 I have not read it myself. It was a while ago that it was read to my dad, and he says that the money was intended for us (my dad and uncle got theirs) but that they can prevent us from getting it until we think we are ready for it. Honestly it might not even be in our parents hands, it may still be held by the court or whatever.
Kaz Lokuciewski Posted October 7, 2015 Posted October 7, 2015 My cousin is 22. He knows how to be responsible (I'm pretty sure anyway) he's just kinda lazy. Kinda like my uncle. He seems like a lonely old guy, especially after he got divorced a while ago. Not very friendly and does not have many friends. He doesnt really go out much. I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that my uncle is just holding the money to be like "stick around and deal with me or you don't get your money" although he would never admit it. I don't think he would spend my cousin's inheritance. That would piss all of us off. I myself am confused about this. I am a very lucky guy who has always had comfortable grandparents and great grandparents happy to spoil me and leave me stuff. I was comfortable and spoiled, but also lucky enough to be interested in economics and such. I did not have to work hard, and now I see I missed more than just developing a work ethic. I was never out and about with coworkers making friends and learning social things. I work at a low end job right now because I find it fulfilling, and I am seeing what I missed. I think, if my cousin were to get his money, he might go through the same thing, but never realize anything. I don't know... I don't know what to make of it, my uncle is not the best guy to be holding it either. My rule is..help those who help themselves. Few inheritances are intended for a person to get a bad habit. Think they are cleverer than they are. It's to subsidize the theft that a mortgage is and provide opportunity for self investment. If you give a 22 year old who lacks ambition $100,000 you CAN set them up to miss out on drive and learning that would have earned them so much more, both emotionally AND in income. With my kids I expect them to be in a career and building a family...then, when they need the 3 bed house..they can have 10% and pay 1% interest on the 90% to the trust..so that their kids can also have a cheap mortgage and so on.
Taiga Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Utopian, I am new here, if my novel below isn't what is within FDR as normal, I am posting within probationary terms. I do not know what the standards are here yet. I won't be posting such long commentary.. this you ask though is relevant to what is right now, on my mind. Your written, your questions are intriguing. Your relationship with your own self. This I do believe is what is what is poking you. Your cousin, did he have a relationship with the person who passed on? if so what and how was it? if you know, if not, have you asked? You spoke of yourself having active relationships with your grands and great grandparents. When a person passes on and leaves their will, their written intent of who and what is to be divided, it boils down to the relationship ~with the person who passed and their chosen receiver. Not the relationships of who was on the list of receivers. This where it's ambiguous as it was your dad recalling what was in the will. Memory is not always what was on paper, yet what was interpreted upon the moment of the subject matter " conversation" Money left is a curious reward to some. Money received by inheritance can be riddled with emotional reactions. The amount is no meaning. It's that it's what is was dedicated to be passed on from another. This person who had to die in order for this will to be granted. Yesterday, myself, same topic. All of my grandparents have passed away. My paternal grandfather, he died before I was born. My paternal grandmother and I did not have a bond. My maternal grandparents were there. My grandpa was very engaged in my childhood, my life. My grandma I loved her dearly. She worked all the time. She died when I was 12, cancer. I wasn't able to know her, her work was her life. Her to run and operate my grandparents general store. She her time was centered around her customers. She chose this. My maternal grandparents were educated, independent. They owned and operated their shared business, a General store which their home was on the same property of land. They both up before sunrise and sleeping by 10, 11, as their business open 7 days a week. My grandpa too had over 30 acres of land, he bought, my grandparents both farmed. By the time I came along, it was 23 acres of his land required maintenance, mowing etc. He did not hire persons to help him. He did all of the maintenance himself. He would have it no other way. He woke up every morning with the presence of: I am alive and I am free. He was. He who answered to his self. This to some would be a frightening existence. To be this free, to be the boss, middle man and employee all in one person. He to earn his way up the ladder rather quickly in his youth. He hired as a management position within automotive manufacturing 1920's. Once he saw what was behind the curtain, how the uppers thought of, treated the line workers, he got out. He defected. He took his earnings and bought land, he, my grandma to farm it. The house barely a shack, he built upon it, a home he created for his wife and one child at the time. He conjoined himself with other farmers in the community, they to arrive at the barter and trade system benefited not only them, yet the future community to become as well. He to remember his own brothers, his own sisters who were not afforded the same. The option to leave the dirty filthy manufacturing plant, he to know many died due to the lack of fresh air, the environment, the stress, the ogars over them, produce more, they earning barely a living wage, these men to be fathers, husbands, men working to exist. I from childhood to my teens. I followed him around from the time I recall being 4 yrs old. I was his shadow, his student, his sponge. I wanted to see everything, I wanted to learn everything, he with great joy and passion shared his knowledge, his skills, not with everyone. He did so with me, as I was one day to be his legacy. He was a wood worker, carpenter, farmer. He loved nature. He respected nature, wildlife. He was at his best when he wasn't expected to be who people thought he was to be. He had a grand personality, he shared it with very few. He was fire, he was bold, he though wasn't one to join in within groups. He rather to have one on one discussions with his male friends, they sharing an ice cold beer, after a long day. Or on a hot afternoon, the store to be .. of few customers. My grandpa was my mentor, he was who told me since I can remember, do not ever quit. Never quit. He always to say this. He was in my teen years: he was my best friend He died in 1985, I was 19, his death devastated me. No one was him in my life. He born in 1906, he born into poverty within the age of manufacturing: just beginning He a young boy to go out each morning, he to look for any work, for him to give his earnings to his parents. He did go to school. He did graduate H.S. He spoke 4,5 languages. Two fluent, one being English. This became his in, this was with his hunger, his tenacity, he was chosen hired later on. He was able to speak, write and translate languages of the immigrants who were applying for hire. His parents came to the US in the late 1890's from Hungary. They his teachers, his mentors. He went from jack of many trades to a young man wearing a suit, he to be the HR mgr of who was hired for labor, line workers within one of the most globally known American car makers today. He grew up in the melting pot of Del Ray, a suburb of Detroit. He wanted to be who his parents willed him to be, a better person. Not a better off person. I myself am right now short on funds. I yesterday within my belongings pulled out his Pocket Watches he left to me, he in his will. I have 6 of them. My plan was to take one to a local jeweler, for appraisal, a generic one. 4 are generic, 2 are not. He called me Butch, his nickname for me. He would say Butch, those watches, if they aid you, do what you need to do. He would say this, yes of the 4, the other two he would be quiet about. The 2 that his initials are engraved, I will not part with. This would be unspoken, myself to know, who he was, and how I am. It's not the monetary value of the watches (one way or other) Utopian, it's his and I our relationship, our trust that was between us. These watches, his personal two, are a symbol of his youth, his hard work, his journey. He later in his life, my grandparents, they to have my mother, her siblings had no children. He wasn't present in the lives of his children's childhood. He was working sun up to sun down. He to admit this, he not proud of it either. I am grateful to be his grandchild. My own mother cannot appreciate my stating this. She becomes angered. She is extremely reactionary in the negative, if I was ever to speak of my memories, of him and I. He wasn't there in her childhood. I today do not speak with her. We are estranged. I am blessed beyond words of his living, his giving, his time, his quality time he invested himself into my childhood. My parents were not there, they were working. My brother by choice had zero relationship with our grandpa. My grandmother gave him everything. Any and every whim my brother had, she bought him whatever he wanted. He would write lists. He not to lift a finger to aid either of my grandparents within their business, their land. He watched their TV, he to be in the house, not ever outside. He the only boy, he was her prince. I was in retrospect my grandpa's " boy" he always wished for, he had and he lost. His only son died at birth. My grandpa saw within me I do believe his own self. This his from when I was born, we were connected his felt. I was his shadow, he loved me. He loved me in a way no one has ever loved me, and all I had to do was be " myself" - no magic. He disliked persons who " put on" shined on, to make up for their own " untapped" within themselves. They to use fakery for their own short term gains. These people not his people. He is greatly missed. Your Uncle, what is his relationship with you? What is your fathers' relationship with you? This may be where your answers are. You to find what you're truly seeking. I do not believe you are inquisitive upon your 22 yr old cousin not receiving this money. I do believe this is all stemming from you questioning your own mortality. How you are perceived and or how you judge your own self worth, you comparing your own self to the men in your family. Your family tree. You are at a time in your life that clarity is on the verge of " why you are who you are" today. You are listening to your inner voice, and it's asking .. questions you've come to find, " yes why or not why" ..of the men / persons before you. May it be you see within your 22 yr old cousin, he is you, not so long ago. You today are asking your own self " what am I worth" .. You're appliance being Nature's law, human nature, as we do have a tendency to repeat the wrongs, if one isn't to challenge the road path not yet taken. ~ my post is way long, I will curb myself next time. Be Well ~Taiga
utopian Posted October 10, 2015 Author Posted October 10, 2015 Your Uncle, what is his relationship with you? What is your fathers' relationship with you? This may be where your answers are. You to find what you're truly seeking. I do not believe you are inquisitive upon your 22 yr old cousin not receiving this money. I do believe this is all stemming from you questioning your own mortality. How you are perceived and or how you judge your own self worth, you comparing your own self to the men in your family. Your family tree. You are at a time in your life that clarity is on the verge of " why you are who you are" today. I never liked my uncle. He's shady and two faced. He always puts his best face forward, as long as there is a benefit involved, but he will never actually come through for you. My dad is dependable, but more of the controlling statist kind of guy. Both my father and uncle like to be the ones controlling other people, even when they should not be. There is an element of myself in this scenario, to be sure. I was very lucky to have lots given to me when I was younger, especially silver, which performed very well during the recession. While everyone else was suffering, I was alone in an apartment with all the resources I wanted playing video games until they sucked the 20s out of me. I am still comfortable, but I realize now that I should have been building social skills, work ethic and a resume this whole time. The money messed up reality for me. And yet, despite this, I am very much aligned with the more anarchist idea that no one should be controlling anything that was meant for you/yours, and if it's going to mess you up, it's going to mess you up. You have to depend on your own internal judgement and values to see you through, and no one should be controlling you. I myself was wise enough to see what happened to me, and I am doing just fine and building myself now. I can't say that is what would happen to my cousin, however, and I do believe in more like a guided allowance, at least. To deny the inheritance to my cousin completely is to allow a threat of control that my uncle does not deserve.
dsayers Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 I do have a cousin, however, that was supposed to get his part, but his dad has the power to withhold the inheritance from him until he sees fit for my cousin to receive it. My cousin is 22. If your cousin is of age, how is it that his father has the power to withhold inheritance from him? Can't really answer whether he has the right to or not until we know what the will say. You could still talk to all parties involved to try and encourage him to hand over the inheritance. Do you know how many other family members would join you in such an effort?
utopian Posted October 11, 2015 Author Posted October 11, 2015 It's gonna take some significant time to get to what the will actually says. There's a big hassle involved I would rather not go in depth into. What I am trying to get at, is the more philosophical answer to this problem, that I myself am not sure I could answer. The question of whether a legal adult (perhaps regardless of mental age) should get an inheritance that might skew his life experience, or if his father, who may be corrupt, should have the power to say "do this or you don't get your money" forever until the end of time perpetually leading the kid on and benefiting from it.
dsayers Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 One of the ways property is meaningful is exclusivity. You cannot just use my car without my consent because then I cannot use it. My car is my property, which means I can dispose of it however I see fit. If I cease to exist, then my property becomes the property of whomever I chose, so long as I make this known ahead of time. It sounds as if the deceased in this case had made it clear who gets his property, whether it's your cousin or your uncle. "that might skew his life experience" is not a standard. For starters, it is vague. Secondly, it implies that person A can know what is better for person B than person B does. Which can only be true in the parent-child relationship. Children are capable of being able to make their own age-appropriate mistakes as early as 5. In every way, everywhere, 22 year old is not a child. Even if the person was mentally retarded, this was the decision of the deceased. I would like to think that no attorney would include a vague clause such as the uncle is the custodian of the cousin's inheritance with no specific terms. If however I'm wrong, then the uncle isn't engaging in immorality, he's just being a dick. At which point, the people near to all this should try and persuade him to pass on the inheritance and stand by their values in the event that he doesn't.
st434u Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 . ~ my post is way long, I will curb myself next time. Be Well ~Taiga Thanks for the story Taiga. I really enjoyed reading it.
utopian Posted October 13, 2015 Author Posted October 13, 2015 Thanks Dsayers, that was a quality answer, I would rep you if I could.
Taiga Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Utopian, I hope your cousin is able to take charge of this situation. You have options, he has a choice. He needs to make a choice. It's difficult when " family" contains they " are " who is to take " your choice away" using fear, using mongering, if he were to " stand up" - no waiver, put it out as ultimatum, what would they do? This is not about money greed, he whining, - it's bottom line is " they are stripping him from his right of choice" as this was " another persons" gift to him, for him, with the intent of " to be used" as he sees fit: hopefully to enhance his life, to better him. Money and family " shouldn't be this hard" as it was " willed" written, signed. The wish of this person not to be altered, after the fact .. by others " who too gained SUM" from this person.. it's a lot trite. I wish him self empowerment. Say what he means and mean what he says: Stand his ground. Thank You st434u
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