Abzo Dolba Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 I have been masturbating to porn since 10-11. Even from the day I started I felt that this is something that I should not be doing and as the years went by I went through various degrees of guilt, tolerance, willingness to stop and reasons to make me stop. I have been aware of the "nofap challenge" for a long time but I didn't give it too much credibility at the time I first heard about it. However, as the years went by I started stumbling across more and more YouTube videos of guys who were speaking about their experience with porn and how much (they thought) it destroyed their lives and all the porn "side effects". They freaked me the fuck out I must admit...but the scariest of them all is something that they call PIED (porn-induced erectile dysfunction) which is characterized by the inability to achieve erection without porn. This means that you cannot have sex with real parterres. Not even pills like Viagra work when you have PIED. NoFap community tells us this is due to porn desensitization which means that your brain reward path circuit is messed up by years and years of abusing the dopamine in your brain. The "PIED test" is the following: you have to be able to get full erection and masturbate to orgasm just with your hand and without porn, fantasy or any other sexual stumualli other than your hand. I cannot do that! I remember a couple of years ago that I would just need to grab my penis and it will go erect in a matter of seconds but now no matter how much I try to get hard just by my hand I just cannot. The only way I can masturbate and orgasm is while watching porn. I don't think this is normal... When I started watching porn just looking at a picture of boobs would make me stone hard but now, in the last few years there were times in which I could not get erect even with hardcore porn. This made me incredibly scared and concerned. The thought of not ever being able to have sex (I am a virgin) freaked me the fuck out and I decided that I must quit porn. So did I...last month I had a streak of 27 days in which I did not look at porn, masturbated (and orgasmed) or pursued any kind of sexual stimulation...I relapsed a couple of days ago and I am back to porn for various reasons. What do you think? What is your experience with porn? Do you think NoFap/YourBrainOnPorn claims are legit/sound/reasonable? Is it unhealthy not to ejaculate for a long period of time? 1
AccuTron Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 Near the end you use the word "relapse" which is negatively value loaded. The whole mindset here... which I'd claim is strongly induced from a vested-interest and just plain ditsy outside world...is that you are doing something inherently wrong or even psychically criminal. No you're not. Instead of relapse, use "went back," and see how it changes the sentence. (Actually, the word sentence is a pun here, the sentence to your alleged crime.) A male ejaculation runs the carbon out of the cylinders so to speak. It takes the male body thru a program of heart, breathing, hormonal, mental, exercise. And with porn, no worries of pregnancy, disease, or psycho-social troubles. I don't know that withholding long times is bad per se, but think about those car engine cylinders...getting a good high rev run on the engine cleans it out, not doing so lets carbon buildup. And you get to think while you doing it, think about whatever it is that is most going on inside you. Over time -- and give it time -- that's processing, if you have some wisdom also involved. You stated that from the beginning you've been haunted by guilt. Why? Outsider influence. And these outsiders are often not very wise, are they? Can you pinpoint any of these source people, and silently ask how healthy they are, should you even seriously listen to them? If you have other anxiety issues, well, there's plenty of real world reason to!! Added on is this external guilt complex, and it's an extensive complex. If there's erection anxiety, just remove the porn from your total mental equation, and see what's left -- that's where the real trouble is. And remember, there is real trouble in the world, you're not just making it up, not all of it anyway. If you have anxiety with another person in a bedroom, maybe you unconsciously sense a real, non-porn, reason, something about the person. It may not be evil, just confused. Ditch the guilt trip wholesale, consciously chose to do so, practice doing so, and study what's left over. I don't know your age, guessing late teens. During our late teens, our brains are generating neural connections like mad for a couple years or so, then enters a period of sorting them out. Actually reducing the brain cell connections. So for teen years, we tend to feel more confused and overwhelmed maybe just anyway. Give your brain a couple years of neural pruning before declaring defeat. 3 1
Abzo Dolba Posted October 4, 2015 Author Posted October 4, 2015 Near the end you use the word "relapse" which is negatively value loaded. The whole mindset here... which I'd claim is strongly induced from a vested-interest and just plain ditsy outside world...is that you are doing something inherently wrong or even psychically criminal. No you're not. Instead of relapse, use "went back," and see how it changes the sentence. (Actually, the word sentence is a pun here, the sentence to your alleged crime.) In fact I never analyzed the meaning of this word...the only reason I use it is due to the fact that it is part of the standard NoFap terminology, the only thing it means to me is "went back". I don't assign any moral or emotional value to it. Also, I am not a native speaker so I don't have a deep grasp of every word. And you get to think while you doing it, think about whatever it is that is most going on inside you. Over time -- and give it time -- that's processing, if you have some wisdom also involved. The reason I am willing to do it is because it is believed to slow down the "reboot" process because rebooters claim that by masturbating and then ejaculating my brain will use the same neurological pathway that has been conditioned to porn so this will affect my recovery. You stated that from the beginning you've been haunted by guilt. Why? Outsider influence. And these outsiders are often not very wise, are they? Can you pinpoint any of these source people, and silently ask how healthy they are, should you even seriously listen to them? Guilt is not the only one I mentioned by I will go with this one then... When I was 14-15 and a Christian a priest was shocked to hear that I masturbated to porn and was very "concerned" and he have me prayers and a lot of shit to do because this apparently is one of the greatest sins. I was very scared at that time and I tried quitting porn and M, didn't succeed and I would feel guilty and feared I will go to hell every time I did it. One year later I was an atheist and this fear and guilt vanished. If there's erection anxiety How could I be anxious at my hand? As I said a few years ago I could get erections just from my hand and I cannot. Rebooters say that if you are healthy this shouldn't be a problem. Give your brain a couple years of neural pruning before declaring defeat. Yeah sure...just wait until I hit my mid twenties and then say opps this shit is really broken... Come on man...a 19 old should not be having trouble having erections. 2
SamuelS Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 If the same things that got me going as a teenager still got me going, that'd be a bigger problem, IMO. I think (mental) desensitization, to a degree, in this area is a good thing. The idea of masturbating w only physical stimulus doesn't even sound fun... I think you've been listening to some wacky ideas.
Abzo Dolba Posted October 4, 2015 Author Posted October 4, 2015 If the same things that got me going as a teenager still got me going, that'd be a bigger problem, IMO. I think (mental) desensitization, to a degree, in this area is a good thing. The idea of masturbating w only physical stimulus doesn't even sound fun... I think you've been listening to some wacky ideas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLAQri18RcEpTV1WBNaCIevt1Bb40GwN-w&v=GXtEcQGLWW8 http://yourbrainonporn.com/ These are some of the sources that made me really question my porn usage and the possible damage it caused me.
Abzo Dolba Posted October 4, 2015 Author Posted October 4, 2015 http://yourbrainonporn.com/ I probably knew about this site long before you did. 1
Copper_Heart Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 I have been masturbating to porn since 10-11. Even from the day I started I felt that this is something that I should not be doing and as the years went by I went through various degrees of guilt, tolerance, willingness to stop and reasons to make me stop. I will try to share my experience with this topic and compare it to yours. So I will comment extensively. Same thing. I always felt like this hole of emptiness in the middle of my chest right after. I have been aware of the "nofap challenge" for a long time but I didn't give it too much credibility at the time I first heard about it. However, as the years went by I started stumbling across more and more YouTube videos of guys who were speaking about their experience with porn and how much (they thought) it destroyed their lives and all the porn "side effects". I am one of those guys, but I would argue that porn is not at fault. Alcohol and drugs where accessible, but I never did them, because I knew they were bad. I had no idea that porn was, bad and nobody told about side effects. If they did most probably would not ended like this. They freaked me the fuck out I must admit...but the scariest of them all is something that they call PIED (porn-induced erectile dysfunction) which is characterized by the inability to achieve erection without porn. This means that you cannot have sex with real parterres. Not even pills like Viagra work when you have PIED. Viagra is actually works, but just down there. When you get PIED you realize your [upper head] is just as important during love making. The "PIED test" is the following: you have to be able to get full erection and masturbate to orgasm just with your hand and without porn, fantasy or any other sexual stumualli other than your hand. I cannot do that! I remember a couple of years ago that I would just need to grab my penis and it will go erect in a matter of seconds but now no matter how much I try to get hard just by my hand I just cannot. The only way I can masturbate and orgasm is while watching porn. I don't think this is normal... When I started watching porn just looking at a picture of boobs would make me stone hard but now, in the last few years there were times in which I could not get erect even with hardcore porn. This made me incredibly scared and concerned. The thought of not ever being able to have sex (I am a virgin) freaked me the fuck out and I decided that I must quit porn. So did I...last month I had a streak of 27 days in which I did not look at porn, masturbated (and orgasmed) or pursued any kind of sexual stimulation...I relapsed a couple of days ago and I am back to porn for various reasons. The thing I most regret in my life is rushing to lose my virginity. I am a men. I was too obsessed at the time. Just got me an extra cockroach to deal with. Do you think NoFap/YourBrainOnPorn claims are legit/sound/reasonable? Yes, they are. I went as far as 150 days. You clearly felt different in a good way. Cured PIED. But I ultimately failed and could not recover ever since. The only problem is that "Once an Addict Always an Addict". Is it unhealthy not to ejaculate for a long period of time? It is ok. It just gets you when you pee, in worst case when you sleep.
Koroviev Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Honestly, and I have no research to back this up, but if you're really worried it will effect your sex life later on then you will stop. If it is not causing you issues in that area then you're probably ok. My assumption is a lot of the issues come from a lack of interest in their spouse either they're not as in love with their spouse as they're willing to or they have way to high of expectations for their love lives. Find someone you're enamored with in every way and I can't imagine you'd have any issues. For some insight into the addiction aspect I highly recommend "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts" by Dr. Gabor Mate. It really is a fantastic and truly insightful book whether you're personally dealing with addiction or not.
Copper_Heart Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 I read Dr.Gabor's book. It has great insight into addiction. I would dare to resume the solution that I found in his book as follows: To get over and addition you need to change your environment, so that it stops being depressive and dragging you back and begins to promote movement and creativity instead. Dr.Gabor presents experiment called "Rat Park", where addicted rats dropped morphine themselves when they moved from typical rat cage to a rat park. Rat park was simulating real life environment, had interesting attractions and so on. Rat had full access to morphine but stopped using it. Humans have it bit harder. 1
Koroviev Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 yeah that's part of it, and there are things you can do to change your environment. Try and figure out the times or situations you get into where you feel the need arising then avoid those situations. Find something else to distract you, go for a walk or something (unless you're masturbating in public, then you might have other problems ). Limit yourself, set a goal to only do it once a week (or I guess once a day depending..) then get really excited when you meet those goals and improve. Don't get down on yourself when you don't meet those goals, this kind of goes back to what AccuTron was talking about guilt and relapse, realize it's likely going to happen and use it as incentive to do better next time. You could even go as far as putting website blocks up with a little reminder that you have a goal you're trying to stick to. As always therapy could help as well. I wouldn't focus on the potential negative effects as those have been shown again and again to just encourage the behavior (think surgeon general's warning on cigarettes). Just some initial thoughts off the top of my head.
Kurtis Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 "Once an Addict Always an Addict". I agree with Gabor Mate's idea that addiction is rooted in trauma. Therefore, heal the trauma and you are freed from the addictive behaviours. If you focus on treating the behaviour (the symptom) your trauma will present in other behaviours. I had a history of using marijuana, food, and porn as a way to regulate my negative emotional states. These emotional states were the results of early trauma, and due to poor attachment with my mother I had poor self regulating ability. Through therapy and self work I have processed my traumas and am now able to self regulate in a healthy manner. I am now free from these chains of addictive behaviour. However, I'm still a male human and have a biological drive to inseminate as many women as possible. I use porn to satisfy this drive although it is in a healthy way, as it does not take much of my time nor does it have negative consequences on my sex life with my partner. Additionally, there is research that shows a positive correlation between ejaculation frequency and prostate health (a couple links below). Which isn't an argument for the use of porn, but it would suggest that withholding a natural bodily process is not a healthy alternative. http://www.harvardprostateknowledge.org/does-frequent-ejaculation-help-ward-off-prostate-cancer http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/844820 2
Copper_Heart Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 Additionally, there is research that shows a positive correlation between ejaculation frequency and prostate health (a couple links below). Which isn't an argument for the use of porn, but it would suggest that withholding a natural bodily process is not a healthy alternative. http://www.harvardprostateknowledge.org/does-frequent-ejaculation-help-ward-off-prostate-cancer http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/844820 I read a lot of this researches and masturbation lowers chances from 1/5000 to 1/6000. Jacking off 2 times a month or once a week is enough. Cool. Other things I want to correct is that it is not possible to "withholding a natural bodily process", it happens automatically when you pee. I also find that I am feeling much better and performing much better at every task, when I am abstaining. Yey, I am not capable of satisfying this drive without going into over-drive. I know that what you are saying is valid, but please try to understand where I am. It is like a food addiction, you can eat carbonara and donuts once in a while and be perfectly healthy, or you can be morbidly obese. I think good test for addiction would be: do you need it to survive, do you need it on the physical level? Can you abstain from it for a lengthy period of time? Is it neutral for or good for your health? Can you recommend me some books, Kurtis? Or any thing that was useful to you. It is incredibly frustrating. And I am sorry that I am being an asshole, but pain is real and I am struggling for 5 years to get over it.
Kurtis Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 I read a lot of this researches and masturbation lowers chances from 1/5000 to 1/6000. Jacking off 2 times a month or once a week is enough. Cool. Other things I want to correct is that it is not possible to "withholding a natural bodily process", it happens automatically when you pee. I also find that I am feeling much better and performing much better at every task, when I am abstaining. Yey, I am not capable of satisfying this drive without going into over-drive. I know that what you are saying, but please try to understand. It is like a food addiction, you can eat carbonara and donuts once in a while, or you can be morbidly obese. Can you recommend me some books, Kurtis? Or any thing that was useful to you. It is incredibly frustrating. And I am sorry that I am being an asshole, but pain is real and I am struggling for 5 years to get over it. As for health benefits, I had read in some of these studies that actually having orgasms created benefits by the release of certain hormones etc. However, this is merely a side point. The main issue is the struggle with addiction and related suffering. For which I'm very sorry to hear about your struggles and pain. The thing that was of most help to me was therapy. My therapist was trained in somatic experiencing which I found extremely helpful. Have you tried therapy yourself? I'm sure there are even therapists who specialize in these specific issues.
Copper_Heart Posted October 6, 2015 Posted October 6, 2015 Have you tried therapy yourself? I'm sure there are even therapists who specialize in these specific issues. That will be my next step. Sadly all therapist I had before were no good. Thanks!
Kurtis Posted October 7, 2015 Posted October 7, 2015 That will be my next step. Sadly all therapist I had before were no good. Thanks! Have you listened to Stef's podcast on how to find a good therapist? http://www.fdrpodcasts.com/#/1927/how-to-find-a-great-therapist And perhaps this post on finding a good therapist might be helpful: https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/44668-difficulty-of-finding-a-therapist-an-inquiry/?hl=%2Bhow+%2Bfind+%2Bgood+%2Btherapist#entry408611 As for the OP's comments and this thread... It has made me wonder if there might be a correlation between the male children of abusive/neglectful mothers who then grow up with porn addictions or PIED or other ED like issues. Either way, blaming porn I think is missing the point. It's like bad parents blaming video games, music, or movies for their children's issues. A more useful question than 'how much porn is unhealthy' might be what type of early childhood experience predisposes one to unhealthy sexual behaviour (and what can be done about it). Either way, a definition that I've heard and like for addiction is that: "Addiction is determined by the consequences." ie: If there is a behaviour that causes negative consequences and you can't refrain from that behaviour despite the consequences, then you have a problem. 1
Abzo Dolba Posted October 8, 2015 Author Posted October 8, 2015 Have you listened to Stef's podcast on how to find a good therapist? http://www.fdrpodcasts.com/#/1927/how-to-find-a-great-therapist And perhaps this post on finding a good therapist might be helpful: https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/44668-difficulty-of-finding-a-therapist-an-inquiry/?hl=%2Bhow+%2Bfind+%2Bgood+%2Btherapist#entry408611 As for the OP's comments and this thread... It has made me wonder if there might be a correlation between the male children of abusive/neglectful mothers who then grow up with porn addictions or PIED or other ED like issues. Either way, blaming porn I think is missing the point. It's like bad parents blaming video games, music, or movies for their children's issues. A more useful question than 'how much porn is unhealthy' might be what type of early childhood experience predisposes one to unhealthy sexual behaviour (and what can be done about it). Either way, a definition that I've heard and like for addiction is that: "Addiction is determined by the consequences." ie: If there is a behaviour that causes negative consequences and you can't refrain from that behaviour despite the consequences, then you have a problem. Have you watched any of the videos I posted above? I don't understand you saying that blaming porn for ED is missing the point...I mean the research on this topic is limited but you give me the impression that you don't even acknowledge that there have been proposed theories and explanations for how porn is affecting the brain and leads to sexual dysfunction... Watch this video please and tell me what you think.
AccuTron Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 " Other things I want to correct is that it is not possible to "withholding a natural bodily process", it happens automatically when you pee." I don't understand this sentence, would you please clarify?
dsayers Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 When I started watching porn just looking at a picture of boobs would make me stone hard but now, in the last few years there were times in which I could not get erect even with hardcore porn. There are a number of variables other than just using porn. Sex drive is strongest when it's first possible. Time passing will fade this regardless of sexual activity or how. Also, the more we're used to anything, the less interested we are in it. I think AccuTron put it best when he pointed out that the shame was from external sources. Thinking something that is harmful is harmless is bad. Thinking something that is harmless is harmful is almost as bad. Also, you can pick anything in the world and abusing it is bad. This doesn't mean "it" is inherently bad.
Abzo Dolba Posted October 9, 2015 Author Posted October 9, 2015 There are a number of variables other than just using porn. Sex drive is strongest when it's first possible. Time passing will fade this regardless of sexual activity or how. Also, the more we're used to anything, the less interested we are in it. I think AccuTron put it best when he pointed out that the shame was from external sources. Thinking something that is harmful is harmless is bad. Thinking something that is harmless is harmful is almost as bad. Also, you can pick anything in the world and abusing it is bad. This doesn't mean "it" is inherently bad. What above the claims made in the video above dsayers? Are they sound?
laowai Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Whatever you do don't feel bad about watching it, as after all we men are not responsible for the biological processes happening in our bodies that scream at us to procreate. I am not sure if it is porn or internet use in general that is responsible for the negative affects. Socializing on the internet and via social media can be incredibly unhealthy I have found.
regevdl Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 This may seem indirect, but have you heard Stefan's podcasts about R/K? I ask this because depending on the environment you were raised in, might elude to how/why you got into this. and sometimes understanding the genesis can help bring healing and solutions to the matter. It's great that you are looking and observing yourself and this situation now and are open to the discussion. From another perspective, I studied holistic health. Take it for what it is but it is believed that ejaculation is healthy in certain intervals depending on your age. When I learned this, we really didn't discuss if it was from masturbating or intercourse, etc. But (and this is from loose memory and I am ballparking it). That in your 20s, it's perfectly healthy to ejaculate everyday. It's probably best that it mostly comes from sex for various reasons (bonding with partner, more of a 'workout' , etc.but again...we didn't get into those details). In your 30s, once a week or a couple of times a week is healthy. a man in their 30s who ejaculates everyday is at more risk of a lowered immunity. 40s/50s, a few times a month...everyday too much and can weaken immunity. 60s+ once a month is suffice. everyday too much but even once/week at this age can risk a weaker immunity. I get that in your case the ejaculation is always tied to a non-human stimulis which poses other problems. I think, while you are on the path of self-awareness and have curiosity about your situation, become privvy to the R/K information and this might explain some of the why's that will help you figure out what's appropriate and healthy and what is too much. I don't know your age, but it is important if you want to find a quality mate that when you become physically intimate with her that outside stimulus is not needed. Otherwise, that may create a wedge between you and your partner. Speaking as a women who is happily married, etc, even the most confident women can feel 'threatened' if her man needs porn to have sex with her. But stay strong, try to find things from a sensual attractiveness...that doesn't mean automatic sexual arousal from these things but that 'buzz in the brain tingling' from really high quality people....becoming attracted to intelligence, good humor, etc rather than immediate visual cues. It will take time and practice. 1
Abzo Dolba Posted October 13, 2015 Author Posted October 13, 2015 Whatever you do don't feel bad about watching it, as after all we men are not responsible for the biological processes happening in our bodies that scream at us to procreate. I am not sure if it is porn or internet use in general that is responsible for the negative affects. Socializing on the internet and via social media can be incredibly unhealthy I have found. What does this have to do with PIED? I feel utter despair...so many comments and no one even bothered to watch at least a couple of minutes of that videos or address the main issue that I described in the opening post...like...what should I do to make people respond to my actual concerns? 1
Abzo Dolba Posted October 13, 2015 Author Posted October 13, 2015 This may seem indirect, but have you heard Stefan's podcasts about R/K? I ask this because depending on the environment you were raised in, might elude to how/why you got into this. and sometimes understanding the genesis can help bring healing and solutions to the matter. It's great that you are looking and observing yourself and this situation now and are open to the discussion. From another perspective, I studied holistic health. Take it for what it is but it is believed that ejaculation is healthy in certain intervals depending on your age. When I learned this, we really didn't discuss if it was from masturbating or intercourse, etc. But (and this is from loose memory and I am ballparking it). That in your 20s, it's perfectly healthy to ejaculate everyday. It's probably best that it mostly comes from sex for various reasons (bonding with partner, more of a 'workout' , etc.but again...we didn't get into those details). In your 30s, once a week or a couple of times a week is healthy. a man in their 30s who ejaculates everyday is at more risk of a lowered immunity. 40s/50s, a few times a month...everyday too much and can weaken immunity. 60s+ once a month is suffice. everyday too much but even once/week at this age can risk a weaker immunity. I get that in your case the ejaculation is always tied to a non-human stimulis which poses other problems. I think, while you are on the path of self-awareness and have curiosity about your situation, become privvy to the R/K information and this might explain some of the why's that will help you figure out what's appropriate and healthy and what is too much. I don't know your age, but it is important if you want to find a quality mate that when you become physically intimate with her that outside stimulus is not needed. Otherwise, that may create a wedge between you and your partner. Speaking as a women who is happily married, etc, even the most confident women can feel 'threatened' if her man needs porn to have sex with her. But stay strong, try to find things from a sensual attractiveness...that doesn't mean automatic sexual arousal from these things but that 'buzz in the brain tingling' from really high quality people....becoming attracted to intelligence, good humor, etc rather than immediate visual cues. It will take time and practice. please watch any of the videos i posted above and tell me what you think...the problem that i am trying to solve is PIED as i talked in my opening post.
laowai Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 I'm not sure. I read your first post again. I think your being very naive subscribing to all these notions about porn, brain reward paths and PIED etc. Sounds like scare mongering to me. A lot of those anti-porn campaigners have ulterior motives such as selling things, pushing religious or political agendas or getting social media subscribers. I mean I don't understand why you need to pass a test like that to prove your normal. The test sounds stupid. Male biology that has us needing to constantly procreate is a cruel curse; and us men try and do the best with what we have been given. From this perspective I wouldn't go over thinking your porn use and trying to work out if it is good or bad. Let's be honest, anyone born in the internet era is going to have used porn and many of us men use it on a regular basis with no problems. As a single man I see porn as a convenient way to necessitate a biological process. Yeah we all go though the guilt, anxiety and worrying about it having negative effects on us- but so far I have never experienced any of the problems you describe. Your penis doesn't exist in a vacuum. That is why they are called wet dreams, because they need the mind to function. I don't see how this 'hand only' thing can be taken seriously. When they say don't think about anything maybe they are saying concentrate on what your feeling; not thinking. If you are still having the erectile difficulties consult professional help if you feel it is needed, as sometimes this can be a sign of heart problems; although I realize that may be difficult in your situation. Personally I have never experienced this so really can't comment. I've read it's not healthy to abstain from ejaculating for too long but who knows how legitimate such claims are. Do what feels right for you. You mention your still a virgin so I think your erectile dysfunction could be due to performance anxiety and worrying too much about the effects of porn and rationalizing too much. Stress hormones also contribute to erectile dysfunction.Take up a hobby or do something to take your mind off porn and see what effect that has on you. Don't worry you will be fine. Sorry for being so clinical in my response. Hope some of this helped.
dsayers Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 What does this have to do with PIED? I feel utter despair...so many comments and no one even bothered to watch at least a couple of minutes of that videos or address the main issue that I described in the opening post...like...what should I do to make people respond to my actual concerns? My post was meant to put some of the sensationalism into perspective. To me, this responds to your concern by pointing out that most of the bad publicity is either residual religious demonizing that which is normal or people making excuses for their own decisions. That isn't to say there aren't SOME cases out there that are truly problematic. Is that you? I can't answer that. But I would hope my input helped you to arrive at the answer a little more accurately. I've watched a couple minutes of the PIED video. In what little I saw, there wasn't much integrity in methodology. First of all, "after this, therefore because of this" is a fallacy. That's not to say what came after is NOT the result of what came before, just acknowledges our capacity of making accuracy statements without all relevant data. For example, in economics, we look for the unseen costs. Stopping consumption of porn does nothing to account for how that time was spent instead. Maybe somebody puts together a model car instead. Maybe for them, seeing a model car is of greater value to them than a few orgasms. Maybe others would value that in reverse. Maybe a person has a heart condition that orgasms trigger. Maybe after climax, they smoked a cigarette, so now they're not smoking. And so on. The other flaw in methodology I noticed was lack of defining of terms. Most obviously, what is "porn"? Some people point to a child wearing a swimsuit in a Sears catalog and say it's pornographic. I've seen/heard of things categorized as porn that don't seem to me to be sexual or exhilarating at all. If you and I both claim to be over our pie addiction, you might regard my giving up pizzas as confirmation that your giving up on sugars is validated. Again, I cannot stress enough that my criticism are not meant to suggest there absolutely cannot be a problem. It's just meant to add some clarity. If somebody who is raised without rational thinking cannot defer gratification and ends up spending time watching porn instead of spending time with his family for example, if he gives up porn, he will not have actually addressed the problem at all. In the moment, he might spend more time with his family out of lack of direction. However, in time, he may find another way to engage in excess or otherwise prioritize instant gratification over long term investments. How much of "porn is a problem" is addressing the symptom and not the actual problem?
Kurtis Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Have you watched any of the videos I posted above? I don't understand you saying that blaming porn for ED is missing the point...I mean the research on this topic is limited but you give me the impression that you don't even acknowledge that there have been proposed theories and explanations for how porn is affecting the brain and leads to sexual dysfunction... Watch this video please and tell me what you think. I watched the video and it says that the changes in the brain caused by porn addiction are the same as those changes caused by drug addiction (dopamine reward system, etc). This seems to back up my suggestion that focusing on porn is focusing on the symptom, not the cause. Drug addicts also suffer from ED and other problems such as depression. Again, I would suggest looking at Gabor Mate's work and the idea that all addictions are rooted in trauma. This isn't to say that porn addiction can't have negative effects on you, of course it can. What I'm saying is that if you stop the porn use (symptom) without treating the trauma (cause), then you will very likely just be replacing one addiction for another. Again, I cannot stress enough that my criticism are not meant to suggest there absolutely cannot be a problem. It's just meant to add some clarity. If somebody who is raised without rational thinking cannot defer gratification and ends up spending time watching porn instead of spending time with his family for example, if he gives up porn, he will not have actually addressed the problem at all. In the moment, he might spend more time with his family out of lack of direction. However, in time, he may find another way to engage in excess or otherwise prioritize instant gratification over long term investments. How much of "porn is a problem" is addressing the symptom and not the actual problem? 1
Kurtis Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 If you have other anxiety issues, well, there's plenty of real world reason to!! Added on is this external guilt complex, and it's an extensive complex. If there's erection anxiety, just remove the porn from your total mental equation, and see what's left -- that's where the real trouble is. And remember, there is real trouble in the world, you're not just making it up, not all of it anyway. If you have anxiety with another person in a bedroom, maybe you unconsciously sense a real, non-porn, reason, something about the person. It may not be evil, just confused. Good advice. Guilt is not the only one I mentioned by I will go with this one then... When I was 14-15 and a Christian a priest was shocked to hear that I masturbated to porn and was very "concerned" and he have me prayers and a lot of shit to do because this apparently is one of the greatest sins. I was very scared at that time and I tried quitting porn and M, didn't succeed and I would feel guilty and feared I will go to hell every time I did it. One year later I was an atheist and this fear and guilt vanished. Care to elaborate on how these very strong issues were able to vanish so quickly? What did your father say about what this priest was telling you? How is your relationship with your parents now that you are an atheist? How could I be anxious at my hand? As I said a few years ago I could get erections just from my hand and I cannot. Rebooters say that if you are healthy this shouldn't be a problem. AccuTron was not referring to anxiety from your hand. Are there not possible sources of anxiety elsewhere in your past? Growing up in an environment that made you fear touching yourself would cause you to go to hell sounds like plenty of reason all on its own. Yeah sure...just wait until I hit my mid twenties and then say opps this shit is really broken... Come on man...a 19 old should not be having trouble having erections. I'm very sorry that you are suffering. You sound frustrated and angry. People here are trying to help and provide possible answers to your question. However, you reject these possibilities without much explanation because they do not match the answer you are looking for (Porn is Bad). Have you talked to a therapist about these issues and fears, or about your past?
regevdl Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Have you watched any of the videos I posted above? I don't understand you saying that blaming porn for ED is missing the point...I mean the research on this topic is limited but you give me the impression that you don't even acknowledge that there have been proposed theories and explanations for how porn is affecting the brain and leads to sexual dysfunction... Watch this video please and tell me what you think. THanks, very interesting. And at the risk of overgeneralizing, the term that came to my mind was a sort of 'habitualization' effect. The more you watch the more you watch. One study revealed that brain activity/response to the porn goes down proportionately to the increase. So yeah...that seems to make sense. If the more you watch, the more your brain sort of 'tunes out' to it, the less arousal you will experience, feeling the need to 'turn up the volume' so to speak. Just like with any substance and habitual effects (marijuana, etc) that is non addictive, simply refraining from it or moderation will keep your tolerance at a sustainable level or remove desire for that stimuli in the long run to be able to function 'normally'. And I know my next comment won't touch on PIED however I think it's worth nothing that reading/hearing the experiences of men on the video about their expereinces...binging on porn for hours and they are married, startled me because they are in a committed relationship, possibly with a job and/or children and HOURS a day focused on porn. I guess if one is single and living alone, it's easier for them w/out the risk of hurting an existing relationship...but then again...friends aren't privvy to how their friends spend their time, etc? That will definitely have an emotional side effect on the wife and hubby (and children....) which having happy experiences with them can raise dopamine too. Plus can cause resentment, anger, sadness of the partner and if it creates a divide between the couple, anxiety increases, thus triggering the need for this dopamine hit, etc. I just cannot imagine my hubby spending that much time on porn either with or without me knowing. We aren't always over each other's shoulders but we do stay connected because we genuinely enjoy each other's company and conversation. I know he uses it occassionally and I respect he needs his aqlone time as do I, etc. he prefers more outdoor activities to get his thrills (off road dirt biking, etc) but at least he can also return from those and discuss with me. I can't imagine him spending hours with porn and then after coming to me to discuss his experience... So again, sorry, I know this doesn't touch on the PIED issue but felt the need to touch on that.
Abzo Dolba Posted October 14, 2015 Author Posted October 14, 2015 I'm not sure. I read your first post again. I think your being very naive subscribing to all these notions about porn, brain reward paths and PIED etc. Sounds like scare mongering to me. A lot of those anti-porn campaigners have ulterior motives such as selling things, pushing religious or political agendas or getting social media subscribers. I mean I don't understand why you need to pass a test like that to prove your normal. The test sounds stupid. Male biology that has us needing to constantly procreate is a cruel curse; and us men try and do the best with what we have been given. From this perspective I wouldn't go over thinking your porn use and trying to work out if it is good or bad. Let's be honest, anyone born in the internet era is going to have used porn and many of us men use it on a regular basis with no problems. As a single man I see porn as a convenient way to necessitate a biological process. Yeah we all go though the guilt, anxiety and worrying about it having negative effects on us- but so far I have never experienced any of the problems you describe. Your penis doesn't exist in a vacuum. That is why they are called wet dreams, because they need the mind to function. I don't see how this 'hand only' thing can be taken seriously. When they say don't think about anything maybe they are saying concentrate on what your feeling; not thinking. If you are still having the erectile difficulties consult professional help if you feel it is needed, as sometimes this can be a sign of heart problems; although I realize that may be difficult in your situation. Personally I have never experienced this so really can't comment. I've read it's not healthy to abstain from ejaculating for too long but who knows how legitimate such claims are. Do what feels right for you. You mention your still a virgin so I think your erectile dysfunction could be due to performance anxiety and worrying too much about the effects of porn and rationalizing too much. Stress hormones also contribute to erectile dysfunction.Take up a hobby or do something to take your mind off porn and see what effect that has on you. Don't worry you will be fine. Sorry for being so clinical in my response. Hope some of this helped. The thing is there are forums 5 times as big as this one dedicated to this problem and I read hundreds of threads in which guys complain about this problem...they say that their erections were softer and softer until they couldn't achieve one at all, but they didnt have this problem with porn only with real parterres and they abstained for months and years and now everything is back to normal...so of course this makes me think this might be something to this...also most of the rebooters are agnostics and atheists so we cannot accuse them of religious agendas. By the way...I talked to a guy who said that he got his blood tested and his testosterone level was almost 1300 and his doctor accused him of steroids but in fact he said that all he did is not ejaculate for 2 months. So I am thinking if there are no positives in all of this... 2
laowai Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 I'm no expert in this. It seems as though you already know the answers to your questions. Maybe some of your friends would be better people to talk about these things with.
laowai Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 I'm not saying porn is good or bad. I think people can make up their own minds about if/ how much porn is good or bad for them. Personally I think feminism and it's charge towards a world that demonizes normal male sexual behavior is behind why your feeling the way you are. This article touches on this subject http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/14/dear-fag-hags-i-want-a-divorce/ I saw this show and it made me see the humorous side of porn and acts as a social commentary on porn in society. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCiTMtx5E9U
Recommended Posts