People are who they associate with.

[Inner Horizon]

From recent experience, I was in a close friendship with a girl for 3 years towards the end of my grade school life (still in high school). We spent countless nights staying up talking to each other past midnight, she was the first person who actually seemed genuinely interested in what I had to say regarding philosophy. I felt like I had finally found a true friend, but then what happened shortly after struck me like a brick. Out of nowhere, as if it was overnight, she got into a relationship with a guy she only just started hanging out with. I deduced I meant hardly anything to her, I responded by distancing myself. As time went on, her relationship crumbled. I made the mistake of trying to talk to her again, I found myself surrounded by everybody I had grown to hate now being somehow a part of her life. I told her the reasons as to why this irritated me (either because of being physically or emotionally hurt by these people in the past), she acknowledged my concerns and told me that I was the only person who understands her. I realized that I'm the sort of person that you can either hate, or respect. I presented her with an ultimatum, either leave me alone and hangout with her 'friends' or if she actually valued me... to stop supporting my enemies and to act by her word. She did not feel comfortable about this, I kept the doors open until she made a choice. She told me she was going to stop interacting with those people and spend more time with me, I quickly noticed that was a lie as the very people she said she was going to ignore somehow knew all this information that I didn't such as the details of why she was away from school that day etc. I was fed up by this point and called it off, and in a final attempt to manipulate me back into the friendship, she burst into tears. I asked her if she truly respects me as a good person, and her answer was yes. My final question was "then why are you doing this to me?", then she told me... "I don't know, I've been acting inadvertently."

yeah... for three years... *sigh*

 

I've learnt from this experience that 'People are who they associate with.'

So far it's been tough completely cutting myself off from her as I'm imprisoned at school, forced to be in close proximity to unstable people. But this has all resulted in me becoming extremely cautious as to the kinds of people I choose to interact with.

I believe expressing myself on this forum will narrow the spectrum significantly.

[Koroviev]

Ugh, I'm really sorry you were put through all of that those situations are never fun. My first thought reading through was "well that's high school," which I'm sure you'd have absolutely loved to hear, but as I think about it really the only difference between that and after high school is the amount of time you're forced to spend with people like that. They don't go away and the only way it seems to get easier is that you get a little better at catching those types of people sooner. Deep down I'm certain she can sense that you're destined for great things and miles beyond any of her other "friends" but unfortunately because of the way a lot of people are raised (ntm societal influences) it's the assholes that get all of the attention, especially in high school. I don't know if you want advise or not but the whole be as nice as you can to people when you first meet them then treat them the way they treat you has helped me a lot. All you have to do is be yourself and recognize when people aren't reciprocating that niceness, if they do, great, be the best person you can for those people and hold on to them. If not well you just have to cut those people out.

 

If it helps, I'm a bit jealous that you've found this community so much younger than I did, it would have saved me a ton of heartache and made thing so much more clear.

 

Best of luck and welcome to the boards!

[Carl Green]

It could also be possible that people associate with those they can relate to. Not necessarily that who they're hanging out with determines what type of person they are. Maybe both have an affect. I'm no expert on the matter, that's for sure.

[Will Torbald]

"The people whom you choose to associate with reveal your nature".

 

That's just the way I would put it without resolving to states of being, since "people are" doesn't really mean anything.

 

"she got into a relationship with a guy she only just started hanging out with. I deduced I meant hardly anything to her, I responded by distancing myself."

 

Do you think that was the right deduction? Did you even make your feelings for her clear in plain English "I like you please go out with me?" Or are you expecting women to just fall at your door by being a nice guy for years and years and years?

 

"I presented her with an ultimatum, either leave me alone and hangout with her 'friends' or if she actually valued me... to stop supporting my enemies and to act by her word."

 

Do you think it's healthy to have enemies so young? Enemies? Are you going to grow up into an adult by carrying enemies on your back?

[Matthew Ed Moran]

Thanks so much for sharing. I found your post well written, astute, and mature. I am so sorry she treated you with such dishonesty and abused your vulnerability by hanging out with people who you consider enemies, after lying and saying she wouldn't. That must leave a scar..

 

Why do you think she made these choices (to chose them over you, and to be so dishonest about it)? Why do you think she was attracted to spending time with you in the first place?

 

I really respect that you acted with such esteem in the end. I think it was courageous and showed great character to refuse to let a woman manipulate you and compromise your pride. 

[Inner Horizon]

Will, I appreciate your correction to my initial statement, I'm here to sort myself out. I don't expect to be very experienced at the moment.

 

As to what you said about what I expected from her, I wasn't looking for a relationship. But after she demonstrated that she was ready for one with a guy that ended up pissing her off in the end, I felt that the connection meant nothing as I was placed lower than a guy she labelled "a dipshit". After that for some reason I became extremely depressed, I couldn't understand why as I thought I didn't have feelings for her. Oddly enough the more pissed off I became the more I wanted to be with her, which I now realize was foolish.

 

When it comes to my 'enemies'... I feel that my judgement towards them is justified, mainly due to the fact I've been physically assaulted by them on multiple occasions. But I've planned out my actions for the future, it's like what Koroviev said, I won't be forced to associate with these sorts of people so much. I'm planning to get rid of my enemies by simply first forgetting about them then no longer making them by not subjecting myself to them.

 

To answer Matthew's questions, I asked her so many questions revolving the choices she made, she told me she didn't actually like those other people very much. But she went on to say that she was having trouble with the ultimatum I proposed, she felt that she was scared to go either way as it may have been the wrong decision. The more I asked about what was going through her head the more belittled I felt and how petty the situation was... ESPECIALLY when she told me during a day at school that she made the decision to get into a relationship with that guy on a whim at midnight. After he was out of the picture I asked her if she'd give me a chance, it became clear to me that she wasn't interested in me.

 

I consulted my mother about the whole dilemma and she came to the conclusion that she was using me for attention. 

I thank you all for providing your input regarding my experiences, I hope to make life at school bearable by speaking to the FDR community during my free periods. It's such a relief getting away from the indoctrination that is the schooling system.

[Inner Horizon]

"I presented her with an ultimatum, either leave me alone and hangout with her 'friends' or if she actually valued me... to stop supporting my enemies and to act by her word."

 

Do you think it's healthy to have enemies so young? Enemies? Are you going to grow up into an adult by carrying enemies on your back?

 

The way I see it, hate is the prerequisite for love. If I'm able to establish what is the opposite of what i'm looking for quickly, the sooner I'll be able to spot the right kinds of people I should be devoting my time towards.

[Inner Horizon]

I really respect that you acted with such esteem in the end. I think it was courageous and showed great character to refuse to let a woman manipulate you and compromise your pride. 

 

I just wish I made my mind up sooner, this whole issue has taken it's toll on me both physically and mentally. I'm experiencing countless nightmares, emotional breakdowns during stand up presentations (which I used to be fine at) and increased heart rate from simply driving closer to school. It makes me feel a whole lot better when I remember I have a supporting brother and mother as well as the fact that this community simply existing has given me hope for the planet's future.

[Will Torbald]

That's because you actually wanted to have a relationship with her, and had feelings for her. You're still finding out what it feels like to like someone and you're still in the "for some reason" phase where things don't click together. It's super simple: Your instincts of happiness and sadness are linked directly to your testicles. If they are getting quality female attention you will be rewarded. If you lose it, you will find despair. That's all there is to what you're feeling.

[Inner Horizon]

That's because you actually wanted to have a relationship with her, and had feelings for her. You're still finding out what it feels like to like someone and you're still in the "for some reason" phase where things don't click together. It's super simple: Your instincts of happiness and sadness are linked directly to your testicles. If they are getting quality female attention you will be rewarded. If you lose it, you will find despair. That's all there is to what you're feeling.

 

Thank you Will, I was struggling so much to understand why I felt this way. But the way you've put it has made it extremely easy to stop caring about what has happened and to just move on, It was a mistake to act upon instinct during school. It was a death sentence from the very beginning. I think I'll be able to recognize if I'm ever heading in that direction again in the future, I will not betray those I care about by acting so irrationally.

 

You've done me a great service

[Matthew Ed Moran]

"ESPECIALLY when she told me during a day at school that she made the decision to get into a relationship with that guy on a whim at midnight."

 

I think there is also some grief to be had about the quality of women in our society and how R selected they are. Hot/fertile women are looking for cheap romance and one-night stands instead of stable providers with strong characteristics, and I know the evidence of this hit me hard in the nuts when the "party scene" (get drunk, have sex with the nearest warm body of the opposite sex) became present in my mid to late teens. I wanted the pretty girl, but I didn't want to be the kind of guy who the pretty girls went after (generalizing, there were exceptions), and this left me conflicted.

[Inner Horizon]

"ESPECIALLY when she told me during a day at school that she made the decision to get into a relationship with that guy on a whim at midnight."

 

I think there is also some grief to be had about the quality of women in our society and how R selected they are. Hot/fertile women are looking for cheap romance and one-night stands instead of stable providers with strong characteristics, and I know the evidence of this hit me hard in the nuts when the "party scene" (get drunk, have sex with the nearest warm body of the opposite sex) became present in my mid to late teens. I wanted the pretty girl, but I didn't want to be the kind of guy who the pretty girls went after (generalizing, there were exceptions), and this left me conflicted.

 

The main thing that concerns me is the how much these sorts of women are unaware of their own tendencies, every time she revealed something horrid about something she had done... she didn't understand why I was shocked by it. Women are taught they have the power to do anything and not be held responsible for their actions whereas Men are taught they hold all responsibility and have to tread carefully to not offend anyone.

 

At least that's what I've noticed by how people respond to the opposite genders at school (from both teachers and students)

[Will Torbald]

It's been so long since I've heard "Thank you" that I almost took it as sarcasm. I was worried a blunt answer like the one I gave would have backlash, but I'm glad it was well taken. That's the thing about maturing, not letting primal instincts get the best of us. Have a good one.

[Inner Horizon]

It's been so long since I've heard "Thank you" that I almost took it as sarcasm. I was worried a blunt answer like the one I gave would have backlash, but I'm glad it was well taken. That's the thing about maturing, not letting primal instincts get the best of us. Have a good one.

 

Oh, quite the opposite! I NEEDED a blunt answer, if it was sugar coated I'd still be stuck in a rut.

 

To be honest, this is the first time someone has had the guts to tell me my mistakes.

 

I will continue to work towards bettering myself in the future, I've got a lot of work to do.

[things make sense]

 she acknowledged my concerns and told me that I was the only person who understands her....

She did not feel comfortable about this, I kept the doors open until she made a choice. She told me she was going to stop interacting with those people and spend more time with me, I quickly noticed that was a lie as the very people she said she was going to ignore somehow knew all this information that I didn't such as the details of why she was away etc. I was fed up by this point and called it off, and in a final attempt to manipulate me back into the friendship, she burst into tears. I asked her if she truly respects me as a good person, and her answer was yes. My final question was "then why are you doing this to me?", then she told me... "I don't know, I've been acting inadvertently."

 

yeah... for three years... *sigh*

 

I've learnt from this experience that 'People are who they associate with.'

 

So far it's been tough completely cutting myself off from her as I'm imprisoned at school, forced to be in close proximity to unstable people. But this has all resulted in me becoming extremely cautious as to the kinds of people I choose to interact with.

 

I believe expressing myself on this forum will narrow the spectrum significantly.

I don't like her at all. Says one thing, does another.

"she acknowledged my concerns and told me that I was the only person who understands her...."

" she burst into tears. I asked her if she truly respects me as a good person, and her answer was yes."

Judge people by their actions, not by what they say.

If they didn't earn your virtue, don't give it to her.

[Inner Horizon]

I don't like her at all. Says one thing, does another.

"she acknowledged my concerns and told me that I was the only person who understands her...."

" she burst into tears. I asked her if she truly respects me as a good person, and her answer was yes."

Judge people by their actions, not by what they say.

If they didn't earn your virtue, don't give it to her.

 

Thank you for your input, I realized my standards were set low when I first got into the interaction as I was very much deprived of friendship at that point in my life... enough to accept the first person who decided to hear me out. That being said, I've learnt what better place to look for positive interactions than freedomain radio. I should've started speaking here when I first found it at the age of 10.

[Taiga]

Inner Horizon, this will make sense.

 

This young lady who created such " ricochet" * Go back to when

you and she first were acquaintances. The moment you met. The moments of the times that

was of you and she, how you say doing the dance ...we all do it, it's called making a conscience

step forward, allowing this to go from banter to conversation, that may or may not lead to a Friendship.

 

Both persons are a bit ' showing their feathers' even so, the always is, even if it's a simple I met a

person today. Relevant to present past and future. Inner Horizon people tell us who they are.

 

This isn't a snap judgement. it's not. It's us who are our own frustration. It's what we do not do

by nature, and this is Listen. Simply nodding isn't a skill, this is us mimicking. When we 

realize how much we've missed, that was said directly to us, ooh,, once you apply listening it will

bring you great joy, and some newly found emotions, within you're owned of who you thought you knew.

 

The skill of Listening is honed. No one teaches us. It's a difficult but not impossible skill to self teach.

Especially in our day and age where information: sound, distractions are everywhere. 

 

Go back to the first few statements of " that girl" upon you meeting. No bet, my not to say, I bet you.

Nope. Within her own dialog, she did tell you who she was. What you gained from your experiences

with her in them, has made you a more heightened person. This is a good thing. 

 

Hone your listening skills. You'll be pleasantly rewarded. We as energy we ourselves: our thoughts, our

statements, our perceptions we toss out into the Universe is action. The reactions to be: good, bad, or

indifferent.

 

We to gain the same response within relationships new old and or not yet..

no matter what we do .. why is it always the same .. this is the bridge to insanity.

 

It's upon us - ours to recognize what we are not doing, this is the cause of the same outcome.

* Listening, it will take time. This is not overnight. It's from the inside to the outside.

 

Listening will enhance you, your reactions to be of quality, not quantity.

This will come to light within your communications, your conversations.

 

Too you will find New friendships in the positive. People who truly enhance your life, as you

will enhance theirs. Good people vs wishy washy persons with motives ..

 

Listening alike reading is fundamental. Yet it's not taught, why is this? it's makes for a more 

evolved community... some do not like this.

[Inner Horizon]

I understand completely Taiga, from this experience I've noticed I've become more attentive to details in conversations as well as people openly speaking e.g. in a class room. I'm growing in my ability to paint a clearer picture of who people are through my interactions. In fact I've already found myself among new people who appreciate what I bring to the conversation.

 

I value your support, thank you Taiga, you've told me you're a person of character.

[Tyr]

First of all, the root of this problems is the forced association of being in public school.

How can your mother possibly be characterized as "supporting" when she is fully aware of the physical and emotional abuse you have/are suffering in School.

 

What POSSIBLE excuse could your mother/parents have for subjecting you to this kind of abuse?

[Inner Horizon]

First of all, the root of this problems is the forced association of being in public school.

How can your mother possibly be characterized as "supporting" when she is fully aware of the physical and emotional abuse you have/are suffering in School.

 

What POSSIBLE excuse could your mother/parents have for subjecting you to this kind of abuse?

 

Well... What I understand is that my parents want me to get through the rest of it because I've already gotten this far, and the negative stigma towards those who haven't gone through the full course of government indoctrination in the work place. Even my brother who is a part of the fdr community has suggested I just endure it for 3 more years. I should also mention I'm at a private school, I'm not trying to excuse my family however. I'd love to be unschooled and I'm really bumbed that it isn't a reality for me.

 

I'd also like to mention that "TheSchoolofAthens" has contacted me and asked me if I'd like to use my experiences at school to write a story about my life through the education system, to tell other young individuals going through similar sorts of situations I've gone through that they're not alone and not all hope has been lost.

 

I'm happy to say I've found a way to use my negative experiences for good, my life has been given purpose.

[Taiga]

I'm happy to say I've found a way to use my negative experiences for good, my life has been given purpose.

 

Inner Horizon ~ Keep Going  

[Tyr]

Well... What I understand is that my parents want me to get through the rest of it because I've already gotten this far, and the negative stigma towards those who haven't gone through the full course of government indoctrination in the work place. Even my brother who is a part of the fdr community has suggested I just endure it for 3 more years. I should also mention I'm at a private school, I'm not trying to excuse my family however. I'd love to be unschooled and I'm really bumbed that it isn't a reality for me.

 

I'd also like to mention that "TheSchoolofAthens" has contacted me and asked me if I'd like to use my experiences at school to write a story about my life through the education system, to tell other young individuals going through similar sorts of situations I've gone through that they're not alone and not all hope has been lost.

 

I'm happy to say I've found a way to use my negative experiences for good, my life has been given purpose.

 

So your mother wants you to continue experience what you call abuse and suffering now in order to avoid some kind of abstracted stigma by people in the workforce later?

 

That is truly insane because any possible stigma is you're mother's responsibility for you to avoid which means hiring private tutors if necessary. Further I seriously doubt your mother has your well being in mind, because she literally couldn't take 2 seconds to suggest even one of numerous alternatives that doesn't involve you continuing to suffer(which she is responsible for in the first place).

This reminds of when my mother tried to excuse having me circumscribed because of the chance of me getting an infection in the horrible conditions of Soviet conscripted service 18 years latter.

 

A mother who is actually remorse-full for what she did to you and concerned first for your well being will take you out of harms way and work to resolve and pay recompense to any consequences that may arise.

 

Has your mother done or pledged to do a goddamn thing for abandoning you to the suffering of school? Your first question when the "stigma" came up should have been: so what are you going to do to make up for it?... not to acquiesce to your mother's suggestion that you need to suffer just a bit more.

[regevdl]

Thank you for sharing your difficult and clearly emotional experience.  I am sorry that this indeed is what you experienced as it is confusing and manipulative on the heart and mind.  I read your later comment that you found an outlet to turn this experience into a positive source, so that is wonderful to hear.  

 

I think the phrase of your experience is that girl "friend zoned" you.  Meaning, you were fulfilling her emotional needs but she was attracted to what I can only assume was a more alpha male (if you think back to who this other guy was and his characteristics....does he fit the more alpha qualities?).

 

Stefan has a lot of podcasts on this topic that may help these things 'click' in more.  Gender wars, etc.  quite fascinating stuff.  

 

 

 

By what you have shared, you have made the healthier decision by cutting yourself off.  I can understand that it can feel the opposite as you might feel alone, even when surrounded by empty shells of people.   misery loves company. 

 

Just as you are imprisoned by school, so are they and they are coping by taking the easier route of buddying up to each other...a survival strategy.  you seem like a stronger minded person that can resist being friends with people just because of proximity and you can defer that gratification in order to wait for better quality connections... but nonetheless it's still challenging.  

 

Just a small suggestion to simmer over, minor but might help in the future... It might be helpful to refrain from giving people ultimatums.  Do this, or else.  It sort of gives the message that your leaving is a punishment to them rather than a reward for yourself, if that makes sense.  

 

That is not to say you cannot make your intentions clear and assertive.  Something like, "I am removing myself from these destructive people.  I like/respect/love you and wish you to join me....I cannot have those people in my life or in the lives of the people I care about....etc"

 

it's just  a cleaner form of communication and will eliminate possible problems in the future of 'buyer regret' meaning, if she acts out of panic and say she went with you, later, after she has thought about it, she might have regret her choice and then blame you for putting her in a 'tough decision'.

 

I'm not saying that was your intention, but that is typically how those things play out in emotional relationships from my experience/observations.   

 

 Allowing her to decide for herself with all the information and your honesty intentions will show you all you need to know about the decision she (or future people) make.

 

In the end you saw clearly who she was and that's all that matters.  

 

Look, you are in a situation that is sort of 'is what it is'.  doesn't sound like getting out of the school is an option etc. Even if private schools, indoctrination can exist.  The good news is that.... you will get out of there....may take some years but you have this community.  Most of us didn't even have internet when we were being indoctrinated and we found our way out!  So I hope you can use that as ticket of hope and motivation and optimism.  

 

It's almost like living two lives.  Just survive in your educational environment while in your free time, breath fresh air with us or other outlets of self-education, etc.   It's probably the best and most you can do at this point. You will get out of the 'prison' and have more freedom to do your own unschooling etc.  

 

And not to bum you out but just to put some realistic goggles on...even after you get out.  most adults are still in their indoctrination phases.  So, again, at least you won't be under the expectations of an educational system and have more freedom of how and what to do with your time to re-educate yourself.  You already have a head start than what most of us had, so look at the small 'victories' whenever possible.

[Inner Horizon]

Just a small suggestion to simmer over, minor but might help in the future... It might be helpful to refrain from giving people ultimatums.  Do this, or else.  It sort of gives the message that your leaving is a punishment to them rather than a reward for yourself, if that makes sense.  

 

That is not to say you cannot make your intentions clear and assertive.  Something like, "I am removing myself from these destructive people.  I like/respect/love you and wish you to join me....I cannot have those people in my life or in the lives of the people I care about....etc"

 

it's just  a cleaner form of communication and will eliminate possible problems in the future of 'buyer regret' meaning, if she acts out of panic and say she went with you, later, after she has thought about it, she might have regret her choice and then blame you for putting her in a 'tough decision'.

 

I'm not saying that was your intention, but that is typically how those things play out in emotional relationships from my experience/observations.   

 

Allowing her to decide for herself with all the information and your honesty intentions will show you all you need to know about the decision she (or future people) make.

 

In the end you saw clearly who she was and that's all that matters. 

 

I see what you mean... The way I framed it could have easily led to problems, but I feel that it wouldn't have mattered either way. It was extremely hard to get clear answers from her. It seemed that even she didn't understand what she was doing and why she was doing it, at least that's how I saw it.

 

But I'll take that into consideration, although the main thing I want to focus on achieving is to make sure I'll never repeat this experience.

[regevdl]

I see what you mean... The way I framed it could have easily led to problems, but I feel that it wouldn't have mattered either way. It was extremely hard to get clear answers from her. It seemed that even she didn't understand what she was doing and why she was doing it, at least that's how I saw it.

 

But I'll take that into consideration, although the main thing I want to focus on achieving is to make sure I'll never repeat this experience.

Fair enough and I don't want to tell you how you experienced it,obviously so thanks for the clarification.

[Darknecrosforte]

Your story is one that resonates with most non-alpha K high school males. I'd like to add that as consumers of freedomainradio, I think it is not unreasonable for us to spend some time looking at how we were raised. In this case, about WHY you lack listening skills.

 

Others have hinted at your mother being a possible influence. From all I have heard about Stefan's relationship with Izzy, it seems that positive parenting would make it less likely that a child has weaker "listening" ability. I hope you can get to the cause of the problems.

[Inner Horizon]

Your story is one that resonates with most non-alpha K high school males. I'd like to add that as consumers of freedomainradio, I think it is not unreasonable for us to spend some time looking at how we were raised. In this case, about WHY you lack listening skills.

 

Others have hinted at your mother being a possible influence. From all I have heard about Stefan's relationship with Izzy, it seems that positive parenting would make it less likely that a child has weaker "listening" ability. I hope you can get to the cause of the problems.

 

I've had a conversation with a fellow forum user where I was asked would I rather drink poison or dream of drinking poison, just something I wanted to get out there.

 

As for how I was raised... I'm not entirely sure how what happened to me has effected my listening ability, all I really recall is that I had little conversational experience with anyone before that point. At least when it came to meaningful discussions, so I found myself projecting virtue on others when I found myself in one-sided conversations. Everyone I spoke to was like a mirror.

 

Not sure if that explains anything but those are the conclusions I've come to.

[Darknecrosforte]

I found myself projecting virtue on others when I found myself in one-sided conversations. Everyone I spoke to was like a mirror.

 

Sounds incredibly lonely to me. From this, it wouldn't be strange to infer that to equate silence (which may have seemed to mean listening) could indicate the standard by which you were listened to, validated, or valued by parents. Thus, anyone who had any semblance of willingness to listen to you or validate could have seemed like a good person. Getting into this mode could understandably increase your vulnerability, specifically with subtle manipulators. Just taking wild stabs in the dark trying to offer thoughts that may help you without repeating others. 

[Inner Horizon]

Sounds incredibly lonely to me. From this, it wouldn't be strange to infer that to equate silence (which may have seemed to mean listening) could indicate the standard by which you were listened to, validated, or valued by parents. Thus, anyone who had any semblance of willingness to listen to you or validate could have seemed like a good person. Getting into this mode could understandably increase your vulnerability, specifically with subtle manipulators. Just taking wild stabs in the dark trying to offer thoughts that may help you without repeating others. 

 

That sounds about right, I came to realize my condition throughout what had happened made me very desperate for somebody to spend time with.

 

Why... why didn't I talk here sooner?