I feel guilty for not following Alice Miller's footsteps?

[myclippedwings]

Hi guys,

 

Just like the title says, I wanted to get a psychology degree so I could essentially do research on child abuse or at least make it more well know, just to build up on what Alice Miller did with her hugely important work.

 

However I just didn't feel right about spending 5/6 years in education just to get anywhere in psychology, and even if I did, I wouldn't have the freedom to do what I want anyways?

 

So I went for engineering, as I figured that I am low skilled and I am just sick and tired of the poverty and unemployment that comes with being low skilled. So hopefully engineering will give me a long term comfortable life economically?

 

I feel like I have made a selfish decision as there are not a lot of people out there who even know about Alice Miller, let alone do the kind of work she had done?

 

What are your guys thoughts on this?

 

[shirgall]

It's very hard to answer the question for you. In general, I found that being able to work in the field I wanted to be in while I did my requisite study was critically important.

[dsayers]

I feel like I have made a selfish decision

First of all, let me say that the concerns you brought up are very real. By engaging in formal education, you are submitting to inefficiency and maybe even anti-rationality, particularly in the field of psychology. Also, I think your concern of not being able to pursue what you wanted freely is very real also. I'm not familiar with Alice Miller, but how did she accomplish it despite these challenges? What about other people in the field, such as Allison Gopnik? Maybe look into how they were able to get degrees and engage in research that had the potential to oppose the narrative.

 

Secondly, when I read your question about selfishness, my mind immediately went to an old nautical prescription: One hand for the boat, one hand for yourself. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but think about it. Suppose somebody went overboard, maybe during a violent storm. You COULD offer them both your arms, but chances are, you'll just get tossed in too. What would that accomplish? Suppose instead you used one arm to keep yourself safe. Even if the one "free" arm isn't enough to save the person overboard, at least you're still with us.

 

This is the value of self-knowledge. ANYTHING you could be doing with your life (or with your free arm in the scenario) is going to be done more accurately and efficiently if you start with stability of self. Maybe you take up engineering after all and do well for yourself. You could use some of that wealth or always some of your free time to pursue what you feel is a better use of your time. Try to weigh THAT scenario vs where you would be if you went into psychology and tried to do research at a lab that precluded you (possibly even by contract, including your free time) from researching anything that might threaten its funding.

 

Whatever you do, try not to let indecision paralyze you.

[Darknecrosforte]

You have made a wise decision. Academic psychology is a joke. There are a few options available to you though.

Finish engineering. Look into bioinformatics and biochemistry as a focus. With this, you can apply for medical school or graduate research. There, you can explore the actual workings of the brain rather than live as a glorified social worker or working on only rat brains. These graduate/professional pathways are hard to get into and PREFER non-biology majors (who are plentiful and often of low quality). The engineering skills will serve you well if you decide to go this route. 

 

Undergraduate psychology is completely useless without going on to a Master's or higher. The curriculum also is insufficient in leaving you with options if you change your mind.

[LovePrevails]

 

 

 

I feel like I have made a selfish decision 

 

 

Are you sure you weren't selfish enough?

 

You have a passion and you chose not to follow your bliss. have you read The Fountainhead by any chance? (it may help)

 

All is not lost! Engineering will get you a good wage, but you still have your weekends and free time to dedicate to your passion if you decide to continue following engineering. You can make youtube videos, podcasts, interview experts, you can write, there are all sorts of ways you can pursue your interest in advancing the psychohistory of planet earth

 

 

as above poster mentioned, you can always do a graduate qualification in something related and that may save you the fluff. In my country you can do a postgrad certificate in counselling regardless of your undergrad.

[myclippedwings]

You have made a wise decision. Academic psychology is a joke. There are a few options available to you though.

 

Finish engineering. Look into bioinformatics and biochemistry as a focus. With this, you can apply for medical school or graduate research. There, you can explore the actual workings of the brain rather than live as a glorified social worker or working on only rat brains. These graduate/professional pathways are hard to get into and PREFER non-biology majors (who are plentiful and often of low quality). The engineering skills will serve you well if you decide to go this route. 

 

Undergraduate psychology is completely useless without going on to a Master's or higher. The curriculum also is insufficient in leaving you with options if you change your mind.

Woww, thank you very much I just didn't fee; right about it.

 

Deep down I just wanted to do psychology because I didn't really know what to study, but since learning about voluntarism, how the economy works and just plain being sick of being low skilled in such a competitive economy. I just felt that spending another 6 years at uni would be a waste.

 

I mean look at Stefan, he pretty much does what I admire about Alice Miller and makes the truth about child abuse well known to more people, but he did not have to go through academia for the whole thing.

 

Just one question though, you seem to know a lot about academic psychology, just how bad is it? And did I really dodge a bullet by choosing engineering?

[myclippedwings]

First of all, let me say that the concerns you brought up are very real. By engaging in formal education, you are submitting to inefficiency and maybe even anti-rationality, particularly in the field of psychology. Also, I think your concern of not being able to pursue what you wanted freely is very real also. I'm not familiar with Alice Miller, but how did she accomplish it despite these challenges? What about other people in the field, such as Allison Glopnik? Maybe look into how they were able to get degrees and engage in research that had the potential to oppose the narrative.

 

Secondly, when I read your question about selfishness, my mind immediately went to an old nautical prescription: One hand for the boat, one hand for yourself. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but think about it. Suppose somebody went overboard, maybe during a violent storm. You COULD offer them both your arms, but chances are, you'll just get tossed in too. What would that accomplish? Suppose instead you used one arm to keep yourself safe. Even if the one "free" arm isn't enough to save the person overboard, at least you're still with us.

 

This is the value of self-knowledge. ANYTHING you could be doing with your life (or with your free arm in the scenario) is going to be done more accurately and efficiently if you start with stability of self. Maybe you take up engineering after all and do well for yourself. You could use some of that wealth or always some of your free time to pursue what you feel is a better use of your time. Try to weigh THAT scenario vs where you would be if you went into psychology and tried to do research at a lab that precluded you (possibly even by contract, including your free time) from researching anything that might threaten its funding.

 

Whatever you do, try not to let indecision paralyze you.

Thank you very much for your helpful response, it makes sense to me tha twhatever I do in life, it will always be more helpful/productive/beneficial if it comes from a place where I am completely comfortable with my inner self and emotions, sadly that's not the case at the moment, but I am trying hard

 

Also I let the indecision cost me a year of my life as I took a gap year:(

[myclippedwings]

Are you sure you weren't selfish enough?

 

You have a passion and you chose not to follow your bliss. have you read The Fountainhead by any chance? (it may help)

 

All is not lost! Engineering will get you a good wage, but you still have your weekends and free time to dedicate to your passion if you decide to continue following engineering. You can make youtube videos, podcasts, interview experts, you can write, there are all sorts of ways you can pursue your interest in advancing the psychohistory of planet earth

 

 

as above poster mentioned, you can always do a graduate qualification in something related and that may save you the fluff. In my country you can do a postgrad certificate in counselling regardless of your undergrad.

Mmm, what do you mean by me not being selfish enough?

 

I have heard of the Fountainhead and Ayn Rand, but I haven't actually read it? I felt that choosing engineering was selfish as it was more for economic and prosperity reasons, rather than just doing psychology and seeing how far I can take it with combating child abuse in the world??

But on the other hand, most posters here are right, doing academic psychology is definitely not the only route, to be honest it paradoxically seems like one of the most restrictive routes of making people aware of the severe, life long consequences of child abuse.

[LovePrevails]

Mmm, what do you mean by me not being selfish enough?

 

I have heard of the Fountainhead and Ayn Rand, but I haven't actually read it? I felt that choosing engineering was selfish as it was more for economic and prosperity reasons, rather than just doing psychology and seeing how far I can take it with combating child abuse in the world??

But on the other hand, most posters here are right, doing academic psychology is definitely not the only route, to be honest it paradoxically seems like one of the most restrictive routes of making people aware of the severe, life long consequences of child abuse.

 

I already explained what I mean, if you were more selfish you would follow your deeper inclinations to do what you (at least seem) to want to do which is turn the tides on child abuse.

[Darknecrosforte]

Woww, thank you very much I just didn't fee; right about it.

 

Deep down I just wanted to do psychology because I didn't really know what to study, but since learning about voluntarism, how the economy works and just plain being sick of being low skilled in such a competitive economy. I just felt that spending another 6 years at uni would be a waste.

 

I mean look at Stefan, he pretty much does what I admire about Alice Miller and makes the truth about child abuse well known to more people, but he did not have to go through academia for the whole thing.

 

Just one question though, you seem to know a lot about academic psychology, just how bad is it? And did I really dodge a bullet by choosing engineering?

 

In order to legally give any advice in most Western countries, you need a graduate level certification in order to avoid a lawsuit. If you read any psychology degree syllabus, you'll see how weak it is intellectually. When considering your desire to have skills and provide value to others, you get more from Stefan's podcasts, which surpasses undergraduate social sciences. Academia is too afraid to call evil by its name or to tell the truth.

 

Engineering is going to help you learn to execute complex projects in areas that help others. You will learn how to effectively work in a team. You will learn how to connect unrelated fields to serve some need. I personally have no interest in engineering as an aspiring doctor/philosopher, but it is valuable. Find your niche (nanotechnology, permaculture, software, etc.) and you'll see that there will be plenty of opportunities to help others think rationally.

 

Get studying.

[AccuTron]

"Academia is too afraid to call evil by its name or to tell the truth."

 

Truly!

[myclippedwings]

I already explained what I mean, if you were more selfish you would follow your deeper inclinations to do what you (at least seem) to want to do which is turn the tides on child abuse.

Ohw, alright.

 

Don't get me wrong though I am very much into spreading awareness about child abuse and its destructive long term effects, I just feel that becoming an academic psychologist is not the only way to do it. Let alone the best. Heck look at Alice Miller, her PhD did not save her from the wilful ignorance of the media and academic community. 

[LovePrevails]

Ohw, alright.

 

Don't get me wrong though I am very much into spreading awareness about child abuse and its destructive long term effects, I just feel that becoming an academic psychologist is not the only way to do it. Let alone the best. Heck look at Alice Miller, her PhD did not save her from the wilful ignorance of the media and academic community. 

 

What can you do just now that you don't need a degree for?

Can you look into that at the moment?  If you start just doing little things they often lead you to other opportunities

[AccuTron]

What can you do just now that you don't need a degree for?

Can you look into that at the moment?  If you start just doing little things they often lead you to other opportunities

Back in the eighties, my former wife, during a time of employment crud, took a particular adult ed class out of desperation.  She ended up becoming an outstanding expert in that field.  Ya' just never know.

[myclippedwings]

What can you do just now that you don't need a degree for?

Can you look into that at the moment?  If you start just doing little things they often lead you to other opportunities

I don't really know but I can guess I could become a counselor with some psychotherapy training as my number one option. Maybe some charity work with child abuse organizations. Spread leaflets like Jordan Riak's anti-spanking leaflet. Create a website/blog. Participate in FDR's child abuse side and try to get involved with people in FDR or introduce people to FDR and Alice Miller's work? aeaxplain to people (who are genuinely open minded) how and why child abuse/ emotional repression is destructive?

 

Ohw and I forgot, stop the cycle of abuse with my children which would possibly stop the abuse cycle for generations to come??

[LovePrevails]

I don't really know but I can guess I could become a counselor with some psychotherapy training as my number one option. Maybe some charity work with child abuse organizations. Spread leaflets like Jordan Riak's anti-spanking leaflet. Create a website/blog. Participate in FDR's child abuse side and try to get involved with people in FDR or introduce people to FDR and Alice Miller's work? aeaxplain to people (who are genuinely open minded) how and why child abuse/ emotional repression is destructive?

 

Ohw and I forgot, stop the cycle of abuse with my children which would possibly stop the abuse cycle for generations to come??

 

In my country you can do a post-grad in counselling if you have any degree whatsoever

I recommend starting with volunteering with The Samaritans as they will give you excellent training for FREE 

Which you will be able to use to listen to people in your personal life better - those skills will put you way ahead

You can also start a group on meetup.com and run self-help workshops based on the exercises in whatever self-help books you have found useful

and use that as a springboard to talk about peaceful parenting

 

I commend you on your desire to do positive things and hope my suggestions are useful

[myclippedwings]

In my country you can do a post-grad in counselling if you have any degree whatsoever

I recommend starting with volunteering with The Samaritans as they will give you excellent training for FREE 

Which you will be able to use to listen to people in your personal life better - those skills will put you way ahead

You can also start a group on meetup.com and run self-help workshops based on the exercises in whatever self-help books you have found useful

and use that as a springboard to talk about peaceful parenting

 

I commend you on your desire to do positive things and hope my suggestions are useful

Thank you so much! I especially like the Samaritans idea as I didn't know they offered training.

I will also try the meetup.com idea soon.

 

Thank you

[LovePrevails]

 

I will also try the meetup.com idea soon.

 

 

I started one called Surviving to Thriving Edinburgh (and Glasgow) and it has 57 members after only 1 month.

[Three]

Hi guys,

 

Just like the title says, I wanted to get a psychology degree so I could essentially do research on child abuse or at least make it more well know, just to build up on what Alice Miller did with her hugely important work.

 

However I just didn't feel right about spending 5/6 years in education just to get anywhere in psychology, and even if I did, I wouldn't have the freedom to do what I want anyways?

 

So I went for engineering, as I figured that I am low skilled and I am just sick and tired of the poverty and unemployment that comes with being low skilled. So hopefully engineering will give me a long term comfortable life economically?

 

I feel like I have made a selfish decision as there are not a lot of people out there who even know about Alice Miller, let alone do the kind of work she had done?

 

What are your guys thoughts on this?

 

Hey! Great question.

 

 

Well, there's certainly a lot of reason's why you could be feeling guilty and there are certainly costs and benefits to either decision.

 

 

First, I want to share this interview with of Martin Miller (Alice's son) speaking about his mother. 

 

I have read TDOTGC, FYOG, and TBNL, and thought they were all fantastic. She has had an incredible impact of the way I think and how I introspect. So, it was with much disappointment that I discovered that, at least according to her own son, that she was not that great of a mom and did not live with integrity in her personal life.

 

http://www.contemporarypsychotherapy.org/volume-7-no-1-summer-2015/interview-martin-miller/

 

 

In other words, I think it's a good idea that you haven't followed in her footsteps completely!

 

 

 

[myclippedwings]

Hey! Great question.

 

 

Well, there's certainly a lot of reason's why you could be feeling guilty and there are certainly costs and benefits to either decision.

 

 

First, I want to share this interview with of Martin Miller (Alice's son) speaking about his mother. 

 

I have read TDOTGC, FYOG, and TBNL, and thought they were all fantastic. She has had an incredible impact of the way I think and how I introspect. So, it was with much disappointment that I discovered that, at least according to her own son, that she was not that great of a mom and did not live with integrity in her personal life.

 

http://www.contemporarypsychotherapy.org/volume-7-no-1-summer-2015/interview-martin-miller/

 

 

In other words, I think it's a good idea that you haven't followed in her footsteps completely!

 

 

 

Hmmm, I have heard about this interview before.

I haven't read it completely, but I get the impression that Martin Miller is holding her accountable for her behaviour before she started writing her books and go into emotional repression?

I started one called Surviving to Thriving Edinburgh (and Glasgow) and it has 57 members after only 1 month.

Damn, so you meet up with those people to share your your problems with repression?

[WorBlux]

...

 

Engineering is going to help you learn to execute complex projects in areas that help others. You will learn how to effectively work in a team. You will learn how to connect unrelated fields to serve some need. I personally have no interest in engineering as an aspiring doctor/philosopher, but it is valuable. Find your niche (nanotechnology, permaculture, software, etc.) and you'll see that there will be plenty of opportunities to help others think rationally.

 

Get studying.

 

Indeed there are a lot of places in this world where a good engineer is needed.

[bitcoin]

Hmmm, I have heard about this interview before.

I haven't read it completely, but I get the impression that Martin Miller is holding her accountable for her behaviour before she started writing her books and go into emotional repression?

Damn, so you meet up with those people to share your your problems with repression?

Actually according to Martin, Alice took some of his ideas and monetized on them. For what it is worth, it was deeply saddening to me when I heard the relationship between Martin and Alice -- and her implementation of her philosophy into her own life.

[LovePrevails]

 

Damn, so you meet up with those people to share your your problems with repression?

 

So far just a couple of social meetups to network people who are interested in personal development, but ultimately it's to help me find people to invite to the self-help workshops I am going to be running