Rational Parents Popping Up?

[MysterionMuffles]

http://www.liftbump.com/2015/10/89539-dad-shared-pic-of-daughter-in-jail-to-punish-her-now-he-wishes-he-never-had/?author=cs&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=owned&utm_campaign=parenting&utm_term=beingmommy

 

So this is an article about how a father is lamenting that he posted pictures of punishing his daughter for "Acting out," and basically giving her a taste of the prison system. In the comments below, I am surprised, and intrigued by the parents who are actually against this public shaming and unjust treatment. Your thoughts?

[Lars]

The father (Juliano Parker) never directly acknowledges any harm or humiliation inflicted upon his daughter, his follow-up response is mostly about justifying despicable choices in the face of uncomfortable criticism. Apparently he admits going one metaphorical black eye too far so now suffers an obligation to suck up, i.e. provoke a sense of guilt by planting displays of affection between violent outbursts.

It's always nice to see growing support for peaceful parenting, although we're still overshadowed by our opposition. Many of the objections are specifically against Juliano's shocking methods rather than the ideas behind them.

[Will Torbald]

http://www.liftbump.com/2015/10/89539-dad-shared-pic-of-daughter-in-jail-to-punish-her-now-he-wishes-he-never-had/?author=cs&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=owned&utm_campaign=parenting&utm_term=beingmommy

 

So this is an article about how a father is lamenting that he posted pictures of punishing his daughter for "Acting out," and basically giving her a taste of the prison system. In the comments below, I am surprised, and intrigued by the parents who are actually against this public shaming and unjust treatment. Your thoughts?

 

Most of the comments are agreeing with him though. Out of the 47 comments only 15 or so are against it. And even then, some of the reasons why they are against is not the bad parenting but because the kid was too young, which implies they would have done it if the kid had been older. On the flipside, I'm glad it went viral and people are reacting negatively, even if it's the minority. A picture of a suffering girl is more powerful than an excel graphic with statistics for people not used to number crunching.

[brucethecollie]

I take the good wherever I can find it!  Someone shared this guy's post on facebook and praised his methods and that post had over 2000 likes.  I responded on there and in under 5 minutes 6 people told me I was disrespectful and needed a "whooping".  I then posted about 7-8 links about peaceful parenting from experts and no one had anything more to say.  I think the overall ignorance and the fear of the road kids may go down as teenagers is monumental and it's going to take so much time for these people to come around.  But, still, many people denounced the method and/or the fact that it was a public shaming as well.  I feel like there is a parenting revolution happening but it's moving realllyyyy slow.

[J. D. Stembal]

I take the good wherever I can find it!  Someone shared this guy's post on facebook and praised his methods and that post had over 2000 likes.  I responded on there and in under 5 minutes 6 people told me I was disrespectful and needed a "whooping".  I then posted about 7-8 links about peaceful parenting from experts and no one had anything more to say.  I think the overall ignorance and the fear of the road kids may go down as teenagers is monumental and it's going to take so much time for these people to come around.  But, still, many people denounced the method and/or the fact that it was a public shaming as well.  I feel like there is a parenting revolution happening but it's moving realllyyyy slow.

 

Universally, the flak gets thicker when you are directly over the target. It sounds as if your aim was true, hence the resulting silence.

[regevdl]

I give him credit for accepting responsibility that was induced by public shaming of HIM.  He tried to shame his daughter for a better behavioral outcome and yet he was changed by shaming...and someone mentioned out of 47 comments only 15 are against it....great!!! Proof that it doesn't take a majority to ostracize in order to have a reforming effect!  

 

When he no longer had shaming in his toolbox, he recognized the cause of her undesired behavior and found the appropriate solution!  I think this is a great example if you shine the light in the right places.

I take the good wherever I can find it!  Someone shared this guy's post on facebook and praised his methods and that post had over 2000 likes.  I responded on there and in under 5 minutes 6 people told me I was disrespectful and needed a "whooping".  I then posted about 7-8 links about peaceful parenting from experts and no one had anything more to say.  I think the overall ignorance and the fear of the road kids may go down as teenagers is monumental and it's going to take so much time for these people to come around.  But, still, many people denounced the method and/or the fact that it was a public shaming as well.  I feel like there is a parenting revolution happening but it's moving realllyyyy slow.

 

 

I say this as helpful criticism because I used to do that...post a bunch of 'proof' and thought everyone's silence was either because they were busy reading it or they just couldn't refute my proof.  

 

The reality is...the average drone doesn't read what we put and they usually go and search for counter arguments (hence the silence...they are busy googling) or they just find a new forum that matches their confirmation bias so they feel validated.  

 

I make it more personal...not attacking but I ask them logical questions like:

I see the majority of people support spanking, do you agree? (they usually do)

And the argument is that most people are spanking or agree with spanking, yes?  (yes)

The claim is that if you don't spank your kids will be spoiled brats who don't respect authority, right? (yes)

And your complaint is the world is full of snot nosed kids who don't respect their parents/authority, etc right? (yes)

so how does that prove spanking works.  if most of the kids are spanked or threatened with spanking  and spanking helps teach respect but we are complaining about too many dispresectiful kids...how can that be the fault of the few who don't spank?

 

I get them engaged and follow THEIR logic to it's dead end.  That way they see the fallacy for themselves and it gets their mind ticking. It takes time.  THis is not something people (most people) will change in one online disucssion.  A friend of my hubby's (not mine nor do I allow my children to visit them) is into spanking and verbal threats.  My hubby has talked to him to try to get him to not spank and he verbally taunts my hubby and mocks our children (not in front of them but I don't split hairs and why I have nothing to do with this person).  

 

Anyway, He always hated that we don't spank and now....I'd say after 4 years of actually trying to convince him he is OPEN to the idea.  he is starting to see negative effects of his spanking versus the positive effects to our not spanking.  If I would drone on about articles and research and such he wouldn't listen or care.

 

So my constructive criticism (because I want us all to succeed in this mission) is to have enough empathy to engage with your audience.  I know threads can be comments of dozens or more people....choose one and engage with them.  LIsten to their arguments ...even if they are asinine and predictable....just listen to them.  remember, if they support spanking they are a victim of it and if they are a victim of it, they weren't given the opportunity to be heard...so give them what THEY need.  Listen to their justifications and work through them with logical arguments.  Then once you have established that mutual respect and 'trust'...then you can offer articles and such.  

 

And remember and trust that when your rational discussion and refuting of arguments is on a thread...even with one person...many others see it and learn from it and take what they need from it.  That's why these forums are so useful.  You don't use that tactic here, so avoid using it even with less rational people.  I used to be one of those drones....and Ifound my way....there are some hungry for a rational discussion even if they resist it at first.

 

I am more likely to read someone from a trusted source from someone who sort of 'makes sense' to me...even if I don't agree 100% than just someone dropping articles on my doorstep.  

 

AGain...I learned this the hard way but glad I learned and will give you the short cut.  Dropping a bunch of articles on a thread is no different than those guys in Vegas dropping out 'flyers' to every passerby and people value then as such.  So earn the crediblity as YOU first and then they will be more inclined to look at the articles and research.

 

Believe me, it works but be patient.  It works in every aspect..regardless of issue.  I use the tactic a lot to diffuse tension between Arabs and Israelis here in the region and around the world.  I don't post one graphic photo or one article or one interview with a politicians...I do it only by rational discussion etc.  I've had arabs who hated Israel so much who now visit here.  I had Israelis hate Arabs so much who now travel to meet them in their countries, etc.  It's phenominal.  So the progress is slow but...much faster than doing nothing or doing it ineffectively or...god forbid....thinking laws or gvt will help.  lol 

 

It does take time and moves slow and part of that is at the fault of the average drone but part of it is how We present the idea.  If we use ineffective methods, we have to be nimble and humble enough to recongize that, accept it and try new methods of presentation.  

 

  Best of luck!!

[J. D. Stembal]

I give him credit for accepting responsibility that was induced by public shaming of HIM.  He tried to shame his daughter for a better behavioral outcome and yet he was changed by shaming...and someone mentioned out of 47 comments only 15 are against it....great!!! Proof that it doesn't take a majority to ostracize in order to have a reforming effect!  

 

When he no longer had shaming in his toolbox, he recognized the cause of her undesired behavior and found the appropriate solution!  I think this is a great example if you shine the light in the right places.

 

 

I say this as helpful criticism because I used to do that...post a bunch of 'proof' and thought everyone's silence was either because they were busy reading it or they just couldn't refute my proof.  

 

The reality is...the average drone doesn't read what we put and they usually go and search for counter arguments (hence the silence...they are busy googling) or they just find a new forum that matches their confirmation bias so they feel validated.  

 

I make it more personal...not attacking but I ask them logical questions like:

I see the majority of people support spanking, do you agree? (they usually do)

And the argument is that most people are spanking or agree with spanking, yes?  (yes)

The claim is that if you don't spank your kids will be spoiled brats who don't respect authority, right? (yes)

And your complaint is the world is full of snot nosed kids who don't respect their parents/authority, etc right? (yes)

so how does that prove spanking works.  if most of the kids are spanked or threatened with spanking  and spanking helps teach respect but we are complaining about too many dispresectiful kids...how can that be the fault of the few who don't spank?

 

I get them engaged and follow THEIR logic to it's dead end.  That way they see the fallacy for themselves and it gets their mind ticking. It takes time.  THis is not something people (most people) will change in one online disucssion.  A friend of my hubby's (not mine nor do I allow my children to visit them) is into spanking and verbal threats.  My hubby has talked to him to try to get him to not spank and he verbally taunts my hubby and mocks our children (not in front of them but I don't split hairs and why I have nothing to do with this person).  

 

Anyway, He always hated that we don't spank and now....I'd say after 4 years of actually trying to convince him he is OPEN to the idea.  he is starting to see negative effects of his spanking versus the positive effects to our not spanking.  If I would drone on about articles and research and such he wouldn't listen or care.

 

So my constructive criticism (because I want us all to succeed in this mission) is to have enough empathy to engage with your audience.  I know threads can be comments of dozens or more people....choose one and engage with them.  LIsten to their arguments ...even if they are asinine and predictable....just listen to them.  remember, if they support spanking they are a victim of it and if they are a victim of it, they weren't given the opportunity to be heard...so give them what THEY need.  Listen to their justifications and work through them with logical arguments.  Then once you have established that mutual respect and 'trust'...then you can offer articles and such.  

 

And remember and trust that when your rational discussion and refuting of arguments is on a thread...even with one person...many others see it and learn from it and take what they need from it.  That's why these forums are so useful.  You don't use that tactic here, so avoid using it even with less rational people.  I used to be one of those drones....and Ifound my way....there are some hungry for a rational discussion even if they resist it at first.

 

I am more likely to read someone from a trusted source from someone who sort of 'makes sense' to me...even if I don't agree 100% than just someone dropping articles on my doorstep.  

 

AGain...I learned this the hard way but glad I learned and will give you the short cut.  Dropping a bunch of articles on a thread is no different than those guys in Vegas dropping out 'flyers' to every passerby and people value then as such.  So earn the crediblity as YOU first and then they will be more inclined to look at the articles and research.

 

Believe me, it works but be patient.  It works in every aspect..regardless of issue.  I use the tactic a lot to diffuse tension between Arabs and Israelis here in the region and around the world.  I don't post one graphic photo or one article or one interview with a politicians...I do it only by rational discussion etc.  I've had arabs who hated Israel so much who now visit here.  I had Israelis hate Arabs so much who now travel to meet them in their countries, etc.  It's phenominal.  So the progress is slow but...much faster than doing nothing or doing it ineffectively or...god forbid....thinking laws or gvt will help.  lol 

 

It does take time and moves slow and part of that is at the fault of the average drone but part of it is how We present the idea.  If we use ineffective methods, we have to be nimble and humble enough to recongize that, accept it and try new methods of presentation.  

 

  Best of luck!!

 

Recently, I asked, in an intactivist group on Facebook, why most members were  campaigning for the bodily and sexual integrity of children, and yet there are many Bernie Sanders supporters among them. Democratic socialism is predicated on theft, and therefore violence, just as circumcision is theft of a child's future sexual enjoyment. I was told to shut up repeatedly and leave the political discussion out of the group, and my posts were subsequently deleted by the admins when the debate caused a stir.

 

Where has this happened before?