Three Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 “ A woman cries and everybody rushes to give her what she wants and a man cries and everyone scorns and looks away embarrassed. We no more think of warming our hearts towards the warm hearts of boys than we do of imagining changing the position of the sun by twisting the dials on our clocks. To suggest it is insane. To imagine it’s occurring is deranged. We are that far from the emancipation from the isolation of the human male child. We raise men COLD, FROZEN, BRUTALIZED, through the cold madusa eyes of indifference and then, you see, we complain that the hierarchy, the “Patriarchy of Men” is not very nice! -Stefan Molyneux from the youtube video How A Man’s Heart is Murdered “Historically, we’ve been dependent on boys dying in order for us to live”- Dr. Warren Farrell Besides the incredibly large collections of data that have been organized and presented in youtube videos such as “The Truth About Male Privilege”, “The Truth About Domestic Violence”, “The Truth About Rape Culture”, “The Truth About Violence”, or the plethora of social experiments that truly show the extent to which society simply doesn’t care about men, which I’d recommend watching if the idea that men having any significant issues in the west sounds completely absurd to you, I can scarcely think of a better way to validate the thesis that society (especially women)does not care about men and boys than to try this simple experiment: Simply talk about the very real issues that males face today. And, if you can, try talk ing about them to a woman. Make sure they are adamant about not just taking your word for it; show them the facts. Show them the facts about spanking which reveal that mothers spank more than fathers and that boys are more likely to get spanked than girls. Talk about how between 60 and 80% of rapists, sex offenders, and sexually aggressive men were sexually abused by a woman in their childhood. Mention to them the devastating short and long term effects circumcision as well as how three-quarters of American adult men are circumcised. Or, share the underlying data which show that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners, yet despite this fact; there are no shelters for men. Talk to them about these issues and see how they respond. From my own experience, the sad truth is that even the most heartfelt attempts I’ve made to evoke sympathy towards the suffering of men and boys through some of my most carefully crafted sentences falls completely on deaf ears. The sheer number of futile attempts I’ve made to evoke even the smallest iota of sympathy towards the suffering towards men and boys is enough to drive one to despair. Take this brief exchange I had in the comments section of an anti circumcision facebook picture that was being shared. The names I’ll make up. Bob commented by saying: Men have a right to be extremely angry about what is being done to them. This is child abuse of the worst kind. To which I replied: We are mutilated as babies, hit by our parents as children , yelled at and humiliated by our teachers as adolescents and teenagers, only to then be told that we the oppressive ones, that we are the spousal abusers, the rapists of society and if we are single and live alone, possibly due to the low self esteem that occurs as a result of this incessant scorn, then at the very least, we objectify other’s through our video games. It’s no wonder the suicide rate for men is so high. Then a woman I’ll call Sherry joined the discussion with: See, but hasn’t the ‘stigma’ of living alone changed a bit. I view any male in my age bracket who doesn’t live at home, more of a responsible adult. Just sayin. And we can tie in what you are saying to the need to be accepted. Ie: Bruce/ Caitlin Jenner. Why have I always felt so out of place? “why don’t you act like a pretty girl?” “why do you like the Dukes of Hazzard? You’re a girl. You should be playing with dolls” Fuck you. I like cars and dirt and camping and fishing. I like to play in the mud. And I like to get my hands dirty… Even when I have my fucking nails did… Accepting who we are is important. She later wrote: See and I’ve never met a guy who was unhappy about being circumcised. And I have met a few who weren’t but to ‘fit in’ they wanted one…. These kind of indifferent, annoying, and irrelevant knee jerk responses that come up when you start to talk about men’s issues are all too typical. Almost inevitably will somebody (often a women) come into a discussion about how an issue specifically effects men and boy’s and immediately move the conversation away from men by saying something like, “Well, It’s a human being issue! This ties into something larger, like the overall human being need to be accepted, which is experienced by men and women alike!” Could you imagine if I said, “I’ve never met a woman who was unhappy in the kitchen all day! But, if they are suffering from near catatonic depression, we can tie that into the need of wanting to be fulfilled. Gosh, I hated being expected to like sports as a guy!” And when they do finally bring the conversation back towards men, it’s when something negative about women such as female aggression towards children is brought up, in which case you will hear the “Yes, but men too!” response. Of course men are violent too! It’s not too interesting to say men can be aggressive, jerks, rapists, murderers, and child abusers. Nor is it terribly interesting to say that women can be victims of aggressive male jerks, rapists, murderers and child abusers. It’s uninteresting because it is blatantly true. It’s so true that stating it sounds more like an observation than a criticism. Besides, the statement "women play a role in the cycle of violence" does not mean that "men do not play a role in the cycle of violence.", any more than the statement "cats bite about 750, 000 people a year" implies that "dogs don't bite people as well." But when women's capacity for aggression and female responsibility is talked about, it's so often the case that people respond as if that's exactly what you just said. Now, there are probably many reasons for this, some which might involve propaganda or even biology, so I’m not saying I think that these reactions are the result of “women’s inherent badness” or “women’s inherent stupidity”. After all, men do it too!…No really. I’m not being facetious. After one post I made about the abuse I suffered from my mother, a guy responded, “What is causing you to feel so angry? I understand the frustration you are feeling in your life and about your mom, but you said you are going to sit in anger now. Is this a recent realization?” This is largely the purpose for talking about how certain issues specifically affect men and boys at all; because these are things that people are still largely indifferent towards, ignore, or even inappropriately turn into subjects of humor whereas this is not the case with women’s issues. And not only does that mean male’s suffering is over looked, but also female evil and to ignore or excuse female evil is highly sexist towards women as it puts them in the position of an infant by taking moral responsibility from them, which in turn only enables the cycle of violence to continue. So, when people respond as they did in the previous examples that I had given, it only further confirms and validates the thesis that compassion towards men and boys is so rare as to be practically nonexistent, which is why it’s so important to speak up for them. In order to achieve equality, we must empathize with men and boys as much as we empathize with women and girls and we must condemn female evil with the same ferocity with which we condemn male evil. As a friend of mine once said, “The degree to which we can have empathy for girls and not for boys, is the same degree in which we lack empathy.- Patrick Chapman” If you enjoy my work, I gladly accept bitcoin donations: 1ALYYHuvAUjjsXLHJRyCxGQ5E9rDoDVpx4 1
NotDarkYet Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Awesome quotes! Thank you! Great timing too: I just watched this youtube video about video games (a PBS production), and the host OPENS the video with a jab at men's right activists. FOR NO REASON? Why?!
brucethecollie Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 You're absolutely right that we all need to speak up for boys. I have always seen unfair treatment of boys...even as a child. What I think slows things down and is how the culture is so generally toxic and traumatizing for both men and women that they have a hard time either developing or mustering up the empathy for others. For example, my brother had it hard in this world, what with the way boys are treated. In turn, the way he acted out was hard on me. So then, I had to get past my overwhelming rage and pain in order to see him with empathy. It took years and distance to be able to do this. It also takes being able to get past emotional trauma and think rationally. The feminist movement came up out of what I think was an inadequate and reactionary response to issues. For example, instead of working towards treating all children better, which would benefit everyone, the reaction was to start demanding ways that men make things up to women-something that doesn't solve any problems and involves unfairly treating all men like the few who are guilty. And as it has progressed it has even gone into loony territory assuming women can do everything and anything without a man, ignoring that just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done. I intend to do my part to break the cycle by treating my son and daughter properly and talking to anyone who is willing, about the extremely unfair and damaging ways we treat boys and men in our society. Thank you so much for what you are doing. You have my support in empathizing with men and condemning women as equally as men when they mistreat others. 1
Mister Mister Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 I intend to do my part to break the cycle by treating my son and daughter properly and talking to anyone who is willing, about the extremely unfair and damaging ways we treat boys and men in our society. Thank you so much for what you are doing. You have my support in empathizing with men and condemning women as equally as men when they mistreat others. great post Joel, and really touching and thoughtful response brucethecollie. I am curious if you can elaborate on this last part. In particular, do you think we should just treat boys and girls the same, and adapt parenting to their particular individual personalities? Or do you think it makes sense to have differing approaches from the get go, to prepare them for the unique experience and challenges of life as a man or a woman?
brucethecollie Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 great post Joel, and really touching and thoughtful response brucethecollie. I am curious if you can elaborate on this last part. In particular, do you think we should just treat boys and girls the same, and adapt parenting to their particular individual personalities? Or do you think it makes sense to have differing approaches from the get go, to prepare them for the unique experience and challenges of life as a man or a woman? That's a question I don't think I've ever pondered. I appreciate that I can talk to my daughter about the female perspective and my husband can talk to my son but we can also talk as a family in a way that helps my son and daughter each gain perspective from the opposite gender. I think I parent according to my kid's personalities but also inevitably their gender. As they get older I'm sure it will be important for my husband and I to talk more and more about all the challenges specific to each. I'm open to learning more about all this, though.
Eternal Growth Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 This is all very true, and I am fully in support of men who are taking a stand against the negative ways in which they are treated within modern-day society. Something that is also true is that even more oppressed than boys and men are the gender-variant. One could imagine a thread titled: "Gender-Variant People Do Not Exist: Society's Indifference Towards The Suffering Of The Gender Non-Conforming" A much higher suicide rate than even that of cisgender men; much more likely to experience abuse for their gender identity / expression at home, at school and in society at large; and major issues with even legal equality for basic rights in most of the world. Choose any issue that men face relative to women, and the gender-variant face that issue to an even greater extent than the men do. Take for example male genital mutilation (or "circumcision") - male-assigned-at-birth trans people are just as likely to be victimised by this practice, and there is also the large amount of genital mutilation that is involuntarily inflicted upon intersex babies and children. I bring the issue up because I've seen very mixed ideas within the men's movement towards the struggles of the gender variant. Greater violations of moral principles require greater sympathy, a greater corrective reaction and bigger efforts to restore a state of justice, in the same way that the theft of $1000 requires more restitution than the theft of $100. And so if gender equality is a moral principle that the men's movement supports, then I would expect it to be applying this principle universally. If it isn't willing to apply the principle universally, the men's movement is just participating in the same kind of unprincipled social manipulation (invoking "universal principles" only when it suits personal interests; implicitly rejecting them otherwise) that they criticise feminists for doing.
Three Posted November 4, 2015 Author Posted November 4, 2015 Awesome quotes! Thank you! Great timing too: I just watched this youtube video about video games (a PBS production), and the host OPENS the video with a jab at men's right activists. FOR NO REASON? Why?! i appreciate you taking the time to read I'm glad you liked it! You're absolutely right that we all need to speak up for boys. I have always seen unfair treatment of boys...even as a child. What I think slows things down and is how the culture is so generally toxic and traumatizing for both men and women that they have a hard time either developing or mustering up the empathy for others. For example, my brother had it hard in this world, what with the way boys are treated. In turn, the way he acted out was hard on me. So then, I had to get past my overwhelming rage and pain in order to see him with empathy. It took years and distance to be able to do this. It also takes being able to get past emotional trauma and think rationally. The feminist movement came up out of what I think was an inadequate and reactionary response to issues. For example, instead of working towards treating all children better, which would benefit everyone, the reaction was to start demanding ways that men make things up to women-something that doesn't solve any problems and involves unfairly treating all men like the few who are guilty. And as it has progressed it has even gone into loony territory assuming women can do everything and anything without a man, ignoring that just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done. I intend to do my part to break the cycle by treating my son and daughter properly and talking to anyone who is willing, about the extremely unfair and damaging ways we treat boys and men in our society. Thank you so much for what you are doing. You have my support in empathizing with men and condemning women as equally as men when they mistreat others. I think you're incredibly brave and that's a very noble goal to strive for! Thank you for reading great post Joel, and really touching and thoughtful response brucethecollie. I am curious if you can elaborate on this last part. In particular, do you think we should just treat boys and girls the same, and adapt parenting to their particular individual personalities? Or do you think it makes sense to have differing approaches from the get go, to prepare them for the unique experience and challenges of life as a man or a woman? Thanks, Rose. I'm glad you liked the article. I don't have enough knowledge to answer your question. Lloyd Demause makes a compelling argument for why boys need more love and affection for neurobiological reasons. http://psychohistory.com/books/the-origins-of-war-in-child-abuse/chapter-2-why-males-are-more-violent/ This is all very true, and I am fully in support of men who are taking a stand against the negative ways in which they are treated within modern-day society. Something that is also true is that even more oppressed than boys and men are the gender-variant. One could imagine a thread titled: "Gender-Variant People Do Not Exist: Society's Indifference Towards The Suffering Of The Gender Non-Conforming" A much higher suicide rate than even that of cisgender men; much more likely to experience abuse for their gender identity / expression at home, at school and in society at large; and major issues with even legal equality for basic rights in most of the world. Choose any issue that men face relative to women, and the gender-variant face that issue to an even greater extent than the men do. Take for example male genital mutilation (or "circumcision") - male-assigned-at-birth trans people are just as likely to be victimised by this practice, and there is also the large amount of genital mutilation that is involuntarily inflicted upon intersex babies and children. I bring the issue up because I've seen very mixed ideas within the men's movement towards the struggles of the gender variant. Greater violations of moral principles require greater sympathy, a greater corrective reaction and bigger efforts to restore a state of justice, in the same way that the theft of $1000 requires more restitution than the theft of $100. And so if gender equality is a moral principle that the men's movement supports, then I would expect it to be applying this principle universally. If it isn't willing to apply the principle universally, the men's movement is just participating in the same kind of unprincipled social manipulation (invoking "universal principles" only when it suits personal interests; implicitly rejecting them otherwise) that they criticise feminists for doing. Thank you for reading and sharing! You're post has definitely given me a lot to think about! 2
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