I've stopped watching porn

[TheSchoolofAthens]

Earlier this week I decided to stop watching porn. I think it is wrong to watch. Sex should be for lovers, and there is no love between me and a stranger made of pixels. On top of my moral problem with it, I've become more and more disgusted with it. Simple nudes disturb me and make me think: who is this woman? Why would she choose to act in this way? What happened to her that influenced her to do this? Where are the people telling her to stop? Why isn't she telling herself no? Doesn't she want to hold onto her dignity and self respect? Of course this applies to males too, this is simply my heterosexual perspective. Has anyone else stopped watching porn for the same sort of reasoning?

[dsayers]

I think it is wrong to watch... my moral problem with it

Can you elaborate by what standard it is wrong to watch or how you came to the conclusion that it is an issue of morality?

[Will Torbald]

I think it is wrong to watch.

 

It's not. You're uncomfortable watching it, and that's an honest thing to say, but to say "X is wrong" requires higher standards of proof than the ones used for regular judgements.

[Sabras]

As a part of my undergraduate studies I had to research sex industry. A lot of women involved in activities such as pornography, lap dancing and prostitution have a past of sexual molestation, and abuse, usually starting from a very young age. 

 

Those articles usually portrayed sex industry as liberating and empowering, as women could finally be influential on a micro-level, since the so-called phallocentric, male dominated market had no place for women.

 

However, most of my academic literature was based on feminist perspective so I'd take it with a grain of salt. Most of the articles I have read were full of deterministic point of view on how women are "forced" into such activities. Denying women responsibility for their actions is a terribly sexist thing to do, I was sure to mention it in my essays.

 

However, it is also important to note that many female university students see sex industry (e.g. lap dancing) as a good way of paying off their university fees.

[Copper_Heart]

Hi,

 

It is actually quite sad if you think about what really is happening when you or smb watch porn. This is hard topic to talk about, a lot of people just do not understand you when you bring it up. The idea is actually is more far reaching then porn.

 

I am on this path, too, and I desire you best of luck. Your worst enemy will be boredom.

 

To all people who ask why we view it as bad, I do not have the answer, but at the emotional level it is ... get off while looking at other people screwing? It probably also has to do with my current life position.

 

I do not see it as a crime against the women on the screen. I see it as a crime against myself. It is like staying home alone late at night watching comedy while everybody is getting out to have fun with their friends.

[Inner Horizon]

Earlier this week I decided to stop watching porn. I think it is wrong to watch. Sex should be for lovers, and there is no love between me and a stranger made of pixels. On top of my moral problem with it, I've become more and more disgusted with it. Simple nudes disturb me and make me think: who is this woman? Why would she choose to act in this way? What happened to her that influenced her to do this? Where are the people telling her to stop? Why isn't she telling herself no? Doesn't she want to hold onto her dignity and self respect? Of course this applies to males too, this is simply my heterosexual perspective. Has anyone else stopped watching porn for the same sort of reasoning?

 

Watching porn is taking advantage of past sexual abuse, as simple as that. TheSchoolofAthens has the right idea to be disgusted by it.

[dsayers]

*accidental duplicate* 

[AccuTron]

Firstly, there's no such thing as a "standard porn unit."  The people involved in one place can be quite different from those in another.  Like real life.  I won't watch something where the guy is a jerk, or something else triggers my "ain't right" sensors.

 

I like SM videos, and from one outlet, with the models seen over and over, there are unscripted moments, mere instants within hours, where the female sub gives the male dom a glance, with eyes and/or smile that you can't miss, saying "OH yeah, that is just right, give me MORE!"  She's getting her wishes.  Probably paid decently; w/o or supplementing another job with hours on her feet or sitting in an office chair, or commuting long distances, which are hard on health.  

 

I can easily agree that past abuse might lead to many porn actresses, but we're talking many thousands of women, if not millions by now.  I don't believe all of them are abused.  Maybe many, but not all.

[A4E]

Watching porn is taking advantage of past sexual abuse, as simple as that. TheSchoolofAthens has the right idea to be disgusted by it.

 

Are you ready to universalize this statement to the entire global free market?

[Inner Horizon]

Are you ready to universalize this statement to the entire global free market?

 

I have to concede it was a broad statement but I don't see an inconsistency in what I've said.

 

All I'm stating is that past sexual abuse (particularly to children) causes people to take up these occupations, or at least is a significant factor in it.

 

And if TheSchoolofAthens doesn't want to buy into that, he's got a valid point.

[AncapFTW]

Do you realize how much female porn stars can make?  Many are making 150k+ per year, so there's plenty of reasons a woman might choose to do this kind of thing for a living.

 

In fact, I heard that in Japan it's not uncommon for a woman to pay her way through college by being a prostitute.

 

Yes, some of them are emotionally scarred, and do it because they think that's all they're good for, but many more do it because it's a relatively low-skill job that pays as good as, if not better than a job you'll get after college.  (NSFW Alert: look up Bella Knox. She's a Libertarian College student that does porn to pay for college)  Assuming that they're just wounded woman who were coerced or forced into it is a bit judgmental.  Sure, some are, but many are there because they like the work and the pay.

[Ace]

I don't think you can make a clear philosophical case in the moment that it is unethical - if the situation does not involve force and those participating are doing so voluntarily.

 

But like Sabras was saying - sexual abuse or at least some form of dysfunction - early sexual experience etc. is almost universal amongst women who end up in the sex industry - whether it's porn, stripping, prostitution. I can't possibly imagine some girl raised in a loving and supportive home with good parents would decide - "the way I want to add value to the world is by letting guys I've never met before fuck me on camera and cum on my face so other strangers can masturbate to it."

 

Unless you're willing to say that you'd be totally proud and supportive of your daughter choosing hardcore porn as a career I think it's impossible to argue that it's not morally questionable.

 

I stopped watching porn earlier this year - but more for practical than ethical reasons if I'm honest. I think frequent porn consumption/masturbation badly distorts your sexuality, arousal response, etc. There's all this "NoFap" stuff on the internet and if you go on youtube there's lots of videos about it. But honestly in my experience physical intimacy and sex are so much better when you've cut pornography out of your life.

 

And definitely - once you make the connection and see some poor, broken girl who's suffered through horrible things in her past on the screen - it's not nearly as hot to watch.

[RCali]

Watching porn is taking advantage of past sexual abuse, as simple as that. TheSchoolofAthens has the right idea to be disgusted by it.

 

That's taking responability off of the performers' actions, or anyone involved in porn.

[Inner Horizon]

That's taking responability off of the performers' actions, or anyone involved in porn.

 

Oh right... I see your point there, those involved made the choice.

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

I guess the child abuse is just a tendency more than anything.

[Lars]

What classifies as porn?

Is it all the same? Real or virtual?

Some people get a buzz out of expressing their odd fetishes online for others to enjoy--I'm not sure how rooted that is in prior abuse. I think it's good practice to limit one's exposure to pornography for hormonal stability and psychological well-being, though wouldn't call all content creators equally dysfunctional (especially if their content isn't inherently sexual).

If we're specifically defining porn as genital exhibitionism then I agree with your sentiments, Athens. Those are important questions.

[Ace]

Dumping porn from your life has massive personal benefits, ethics notwithstanding.

[RCali]

Dumping porn from your life has massive personal benefits, ethics notwithstanding.

 

Could you please list them? I would love to read Jim Penman's book, as it was made obvious how it does study this subject, but, alas, I can't afford much. Pointing somewhere with research on the subject would also be helpful.

[dsayers]

To all people who ask why we view it as bad, I do not have the answer

Do you see the difference between "it is wrong" and "I view it as bad"? If your answer to a question that you view as asking why you have a particular reaction to something is "I don't know," to me this would indicate a reason to begin exploring this for your own advantage and understanding. Then, once you've achieved that piece of self-knowledge, maybe discuss it with others. "I view this as bad and I don't know why" is not convincing.

 

Watching porn is taking advantage of past sexual abuse, as simple as that.

The case has not yet been made for porn participant = prior sexual abuse. As such, this is little more than an assertion, which is perhaps why it is so simple. Additionally, I think you have the challenge of defining "taking advantage" and why it's inherently bad. Those who work in agriculture "take advantage" of the fact that people need to eat. People who use the express way are "taking advantage" of a more efficient way of arriving at their destination. I can't speak for others, but no porn has ever been made at my behest. So how do you arrive at the conclusion that if I were to watch porn, I would be doing something to the people I'm watching?

 

I just want to be clear since this is clearly an emotional issue (which is my point) that I haven't expressed an opinion yet. My input is for the purpose of addressing methodology. Because I suspect that most of this stuff comes from external shaming.

[Ace]

Could you please list them? I would love to read Jim Penman's book, as it was made obvious how it does study this subject, but, alas, I can't afford much. Pointing somewhere with research on the subject would also be helpful.

I'm not sure how much scientific evidence we'll find of that. If you're interested - google "NoFap" there's a website, vlogs etc. Basically - you find yourself looking and porn/masturbating frequently and take a chance on giving that up for a while - 30 days, 60, 90 - I've seen some guys claim to have gone a year.

 

I think it's mostly porn which is the problem that really distorts your sexual arousal response - that's my experience and for many. I don't think masturbating is inherently bad - but that becomes intertwined with porn for a lot of guys and so giving that up for a time along with the porn is the normal strategy.

 

It's super cliché and totally anecdotal - but so many report many positive effects - physical, mental, sexual - that was my experience too. I think porn can be like a drug.

Could you please list them? I would love to read Jim Penman's book, as it was made obvious how it does study this subject, but, alas, I can't afford much. Pointing somewhere with research on the subject would also be helpful.

I'm being a bit vague - I'd say the biggest difference I noticed - in sex you want to be 100% present in the moment, focused on your partner - and when regularly consuming porn I found that to be lacking for myself - sometimes to an extreme point, struggling to perform. After throwing the porn away an average girl becomes way sexier just as she is and any kind of physical intimacy and sex became far better for me.

 

And I mean for those of us under 30 in this internet age - we don't have any experience of sexuality without pornography. Your sexual life and consumption of pornography are never separated - and when you do that for the first time I think anyone who hasn't had that experience will be very surprised at how much more of an impact it was having than you thought possible.

[Mister Mister]

I agree that it is not immoral, but I've found that as I developed more empathy, I was grossed out with porn.  At first I tried to find some that was more affectionate and less degrading, but there's not much of it, which should tell you something.  Masturbating is not inherently bad, but I don't know that masturbating with the frequency that many men do these days is psychologically healthy either.  We ought not to shame the act, but try to gain some wider perspective about how we are programming our sexuality by giving into every sexual impulse.  I also think that the eastern mystics may have a point that it wastes a kind of energy, I find myself feeling depleted for a day or two afterwards, whereas if I go for several days without, I have an extra ooomph that can be directed towards other creative endeavors.

[RCali]

I agree that it is not immoral, but I've found that as I developed more empathy, I was grossed out with porn.  At first I tried to find some that was more affectionate and less degrading, but there's not much of it, which should tell you something.  

 

I can relate to this. I think you had a typo right after this quote, though, so I won't speak of the rest, since, besides this, doesn't provide sound arguments against masturbation or porn.

 

*zip*

 

OK, I've heard all of this before, as you may have deducted. But, as I'm sure you can understand, your experience isn't empiricism, and it was this latter which I was looking for, in my question. I've had encounters with websites close if not exactly how you related here, and what they describe is dubious at best.

 

I, for one, can't relate to anything you described changing in your life, or any of the problems you had before.

[regevdl]

As a part of my undergraduate studies I had to research sex industry. A lot of women involved in activities such as pornography, lap dancing and prostitution have a past of sexual molestation, and abuse, usually starting from a very young age. 

 

Those articles usually portrayed sex industry as liberating and empowering, as women could finally be influential on a micro-level, since the so-called phallocentric, male dominated market had no place for women.

 

However, most of my academic literature was based on feminist perspective so I'd take it with a grain of salt. Most of the articles I have read were full of deterministic point of view on how women are "forced" into such activities. Denying women responsibility for their actions is a terribly sexist thing to do, I was sure to mention it in my essays.

 

However, it is also important to note that many female university students see sex industry (e.g. lap dancing) as a good way of paying off their university fees.

 

That's interesting and I don't watch porn...not for any moral judgement against it.  I have thought about these possible findings.  If men and women (consumers of porn)  were more aware of who these men and women were, would they still enjoy watching?  Can I or anyone take pleasure in watching a symptom of dysfunction?  And I think it's a healthy mental exercise to see where we are in our levels of empathy.  

 

I sort of have this condundrum with people in less provocative professions.  Like Robin Williams.  His humor and talent was a coping mechanism for a highly dysfunctional life.  As long as that history was hidden from the common person (including myself) I could easily enjoy his 'raw talent'.  But I guess after his death, a lot of the skeletons came out of the closet and my heart broke and found it less enjoyable to watch.  I'm not saying my reaction is more moral or correct, but just a thought to simmer on.

 

I knew a few girls like that in college.  However I think the shoe still fit them in that they were drawn to that because they exhibited other dysfunctions in their life.  I don't know what their childhood was like but I too found good ways to pay for my college...I worked 2 jobs, I joined a work-study program.  One job I got paid an hourly wage that I could use for spending money, the other my 'earnings' went towards my tuition and I gained value skills.

 

Coincidentally, someone just updated me about this particular girl I knew and her life is a hot mess.  She was on the University track team and stripped!  So....I guess her full ride didn't cover all of the expenses she needed.  She was a heavy drinker, I believe got into cocaine, got pregnant immediately after she graduated, wasn't married, was in an abusive relationship with a guy from the wrestling team, they married, divorced, he is out of the picture completely,....I mean it goes on.  

 

So to say it so innocently like, "well they jsut want to pay for college.." I think still needs to hold the caveat that there is a reason they are drawn to that type of work when many other programs and opportunities are available on campuses...at least our college.  She had  a drinking/coke habit and needed that type of cash to fulfill it.  Why she had the drinking/coke habit could probably be explained by her childhood.

[Ace]

Accessibility of porn has increased at a level never seen before - just in the last five years with the advent of all the porn 2.0 websites. We're in uncharted waters with the scale that this thing has gone to. I think a rational person ought to make a calculated decision at a certain point, can't keep waiting forever until some conclusive scientific report comes out to change your behavior. And this is one of those things - best case scenario porn is a way of killing time, like watching some mindless tv show - so there's nothing to lose giving it a go. Worst case you're messing with your ability to enjoy one of life's greatest experiences over the long-term.

 

A lot of big porn sites put out statistics on visitors - if you're a young man in the Western world who doesn't access porn multiple times per week you are absolutely in the minority. Pornhub is a big site, but just one of many - and they get 2.1 million unique visitors per hour - it's insane! Totally unprecedented.

 

And that's all completely separate from the ethical issues we've discussed which should be extremely troubling for anyone who wants to be a virtuous person. We can cite examples of webcam girls putting themselves through college, and so on - but there are so many documentaries that have been done on the porn industry, books written by those who have lived in that world - they paint a pretty grim picture of a life that chews people up and the long-term outcomes are not good.

 

So I say good on the original poster, it's going against the grain for sure in today's society but I think the ethical/practical argument is pretty damn compelling.

[fractional slacker]

Declaring yourself "porn free" is interesting, but I'm not sure how that has any bearing on your ethical status as a moral agent. Plenty of good and healthy people consume porn, and likewise plenty of non virtuous scoundrels refrain from porn. Furthermore, porn has no objective definition, and hence is not subject to the laws of logic. Philosophy can not apply to the consumption of or the absence of porn. It's simply an aesthetic matter.

 

Irregardless of how sausage is made, or it's negative health effects, declaring you no longer consume sausage does not make you healthy.
 

[RCali]

Irregardless

 

 

I'm triggered. This word only results from the source of error, as it's a double negative. Ir- implying a negative, or "not" and -less implying "without". You've just said «Not without regard for", which, in fact, could still have your sentence follow logic. Regardless of this, it's still an error, and not a recognized word for any study who respects etymology.

[dsayers]

And that's all completely separate from the ethical issues we've discussed which should be extremely troubling for anyone who wants to be a virtuous person.

I keep asking how this conclusion was arrived upon. Nobody seems willing to explain how somebody watching porn is engaging in a behavior that is binding upon others without their consent. They're just throwing around words like wrong, immoral, and unethical with no rigor behind those objective claims.

 

Accessibility of porn has increased at a level never seen before - just in the last five years with the advent of all the porn 2.0 websites. We're in uncharted waters with the scale that this thing has gone to. I think a rational person ought to make a calculated decision at a certain point, can't keep waiting forever until some conclusive scientific report comes out to change your behavior. And this is one of those things - best case scenario porn is a way of killing time, like watching some mindless tv show - so there's nothing to lose giving it a go. Worst case you're messing with your ability to enjoy one of life's greatest experiences over the long-term.

"Accessibility to articles has increased at a level never seen before. Reading articles is a way of killing time. Worst case, you're messing with your ability to enjoy writing or talking." Which by the way is the opposite of the truth; Were you to read more articles, your ability to communicate would actually increase. Your scare tactics remind me of an episode of Bullshit! where they interviewed this guy who made and sold these shields you could stick over the earpiece of your cellphone to reduce the risk of brain cancer. He KNEW that the waves transmitted by cellphones could not cause such a thing, but said "Why take the chance?"

 

Since nobody will discuss how they've arrived at the conclusion, I guess it's time to weigh in with my opinion. I was raised as a Christian. When my body matured, I was tormented because I couldn't stop masturbating and I was told it was a sin. I cried, promising to God over and over I'd never do it again. I felt horrified at my inability to control... something that is completely natural, healthy, and a biological imperative. It was EXTREMELY damaging for grown folks who knew better to try and convince me of that.

This is why it's very important to determine whether what's being talked about is in fact something that is harmful. Or if calling something harmful that's not is just perpetuating the same bullshit external pressure that was inflicted upon us. From my perspective, "porn" is a wide array of things, involving a wide array of people. To say "porn" without acknowledging this truism is collectivizing, which mean what's being said is almost certainly false. Unless coercion is in play, the porn is consensual. Partaking of porn isn't binding upon others. I submit that in the absence of specifics, there is absolutely no basis for suggesting that porn is harmful.

 

If you try to breathe water, you will drown. This doesn't mean water is wrong, immoral, or unethical. It just means you have to use it right. Same with everything that isn't theft, assault, rape, or murder.

[Lars]

I'm triggered. This word only results from the source of error, as it's a double negative. Ir- implying a negative, or "not" and -less implying "without". You've just said «Not without regard for", which, in fact, could still have your sentence follow logic. Regardless of this, it's still an error, and not a recognized word for any study who respects etymology.

It must have started when somebody mixed up "irrespective" and "regardless". Most people just consider "irregardless" synonymous with "regardless" kinda like "flammable" and "inflammable".

 

Back to sausages?

[RCali]

«From Middle French inflammable, from Medieval Latin inflammabilis, from Latin inflammare ‎(“to set on fire”), from in ‎(“in, on”) + flamma ‎(“flame”).»

 

That doesn't seem like a good comparison to be made, Lars. And to add, in my language, Portuguese, we use the "in" before flammable always. There's no "flammable" by itself.

[Wuzzums]

I've recently read "So You've Been Publicly Shamed" by Jon Ronson in which at some point he goes investigate the porn world where he talks to this actress that talks about how liberating (or something of that sort) to be fully exposed in a public setting, how wonderful it is to become shame-free. From the writing she seemed quite genuine. After he published her story she fell into a depression because she got a lot of backlash from people who considered her life depraved and/or coming from a nasty place. She got shamed for living in a non-shame world.

 

 

Simple nudes disturb me and make me think: who is this woman? Why would she choose to act in this way? What happened to her that influenced her to do this? Where are the people telling her to stop? Why isn't she telling herself no? Doesn't she want to hold onto her dignity and self respect?

 

There's a lot of implied insults there like how she has no self-respect, dignity, how she has no free will and something in her past made her to go down on this road and so on. What about the male performers? Do you feel as much pity for them as you do the women even though they have it much worse?

 

Porn actors are people who get paid for how good they look, how they act in front of a camera, for what they're willing to do and can do in front of a camera, and for how well they can titillate the viewer so as to throw them into a fantasy world where they're in the middle of the action. So how is this any different than what Hollywood actors do?

 

I get ethical when I hear that porn actors have gone through a rough life but I don't have the same reaction, or any reaction at times, when I hear the same thing about movie/tv actors. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between the two yet I still have a different reaction to them. People probably fap more to Scarlett Johansson than some very famous pornstar (look at me pretending not to know the name of one, right?) so what is the actual product movies and porn are trying to sell and why are we boasting for enjoying one and not the other?

[AccuTron]

"Porn actors are people who get paid for how good they look, how they act in front of a camera, for what they're willing to do and can do in front of a camera, and for how well they can titillate the viewer so as to throw them into a fantasy world where they're in the middle of the action. So how is this any different than what Hollywood actors do?"

 

 

At first I thought this was a description of a contemporary newscaster.

[Kurtis]

 

... best case scenario porn is a way of killing time, like watching some mindless tv show - so there's nothing to lose giving it a go. 

 

This doesn't sound like a best case scenario.  I don't masturbate  to "kill time".  If there is boredom in your life then that might be something to look into.

 

 

 

 

I get ethical when I hear that porn actors have gone through a rough life but I don't have the same reaction, or any reaction at times, when I hear the same thing about movie/tv actors. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between the two yet I still have a different reaction to them. People probably fap more to Scarlett Johansson than some very famous pornstar (look at me pretending not to know the name of one, right?) so what is the actual product movies and porn are trying to sell and why are we boasting for enjoying one and not the other?

 

Excellent point.  

[Copper_Heart]

Do you see the difference between "it is wrong" and "I view it as bad"? If your answer to a question that you view as asking why you have a particular reaction to something is "I don't know," to me this would indicate a reason to begin exploring this for your own advantage and understanding. Then, once you've achieved that piece of self-knowledge, maybe discuss it with others. "I view this as bad and I don't know why" is not convincing.

 

Yeah, I have messed up this message. I have rewrited it several. What I wanted to communicate is that:

 

I do not know if porn is a crime or immoral toward the actress and I never have asked myself this question. I do know that it has negative impact on me as a person and my relationship to it is not dissimilar to relationship that alcoholic has with a bottle. I want to end it. That obviously is far different from what i have previously written, but that is what I meant. Sorry for messing it up.

 

 

I'm triggered. This word only results from the source of error, as it's a double negative. Ir- implying a negative, or "not" and -less implying "without". You've just said «Not without regard for", which, in fact, could still have your sentence follow logic. Regardless of this, it's still an error, and not a recognized word for any study who respects etymology.

 

He probably meant "not irregardless". /s

[J. D. Stembal]

Watching porn is taking advantage of past sexual abuse, as simple as that. TheSchoolofAthens has the right idea to be disgusted by it.

 

Is watching an athlete, or <insert stereotypical male profession steeped in physical dominance> equally disgusting or degrading?

[J. D. Stembal]

This article in Men's Health also seems relevant to the discourse in this thread. It is a men's health article written by an anonymous woman who does not consume porn (although her father did) yet offers a line of reasoning as to why masteurbation and porn would be detrimental to the health of sexual relationships (her parents divorced).

http://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/porn-debate

[RCali]

 

He probably meant "not irregardless". /s

 

I'm as triggered as revolvers in cowboy movies right now.