I've stopped watching porn

[Jer]

Ran Gavrieli's thoughts on porn.

 

 

Comments disabled is a red flag that you're about to get pseudoscience imo.

 

His arguments against porn:

1. It might be taking advantage of a person in a desperate situation.

In other words, somebody who really needs a job is getting one.

 

2. I (Ran, not me) get violent fantasies because all porn is violent or degrading toward women.

He has a personal problem and he is mistaken. There is great porn available that is made for couples that has no violence or humiliation toward men or women.

 

Edit: Porn is the one gender gap you never hear feminists talk about. Men get paid like 1/5th as much as their co stars but the women are the ones being exploited.

[TheSchoolofAthens]

I wanted to say that after reading through the comments and arguements, I've come to the conclusion that it isn't immoral to watch porn. It is something I prefer to not do. Thank you to all those who commented, whether you agreed or disagreed with me, this thread helped me figure out my stance and I greatly appreciate that!

[jason_]

I am interested to find a solid explanation as to why mastuerbation is necessary undesirable, as it has many health benefits. In the wild, so to speak, the male human would be having sex around once a day at least.

 

http://www.mensxp.com/health/live-healthy/8858-10-health-benefits-of-masturbation-for-men.html

 

As a personal note, I've tried the 30 day cessation protocol, and it was pretty terrible.

 

Also, why am I getting wedding and bridal popups when I now go to porno websites? Talk about a boner killer!

 

http://www.bridaltune.com/wp-content/themes/morning/topvideos.php?utm_source=dp&utm_medium=click&utm_campaign=top-videos&utm_term=26

 

Hi J.D.

I don't think moderate masturbation is necessarily unhealthy. Pornography is another, albeit closely related, issue. Personally, I don't find enough positive aspects to justify spending my time consuming it.

 

Moreover, I find that if I don't watch, I put myself in the position of engaging with my sexuality differently. Part of that is the replacement of strange women (as in completely unknown to me) with women I know, or have known, or women I have the possibility of knowing better in sexual thoughts.

 

Personally, I think this is a more positive psychology. I also have begun to wonder about how the sexual energy that is utilized when watching porn is otherwise put to use. Maybe that energy should be put into the service of making myself a more fit partner for the 'real' women that are in my life or that come into it?

Great sex is like a fantastic meal; best enjoyed with the one you love most in the world. Porn is McDonalds-- but sometimes I still eat McDonald's, mostly because it's quick and convenient. I think the principle of moderation applies to McDonalds as it applies to porn; and partaking of both have similar moral significance.

 

I think you're using an apt analogy, but when one considers the complete supply chain of both industries, I think it's pretty clear that on the whole the wise choice is to consume neither.

[Mantis]

OK, so pornography is classified as: the explicit description or exhibition of sexual activity in literature, films, pictures etc, marked by the intent to stimulate erotica rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings.

 

Pornography,Porn, porno, smut, filth, dirt, obscene, lewd, offensive, nasty, x rated.

 

The important elements to be aware of in the new age modern day of pornography,are, that it causes brain damage, and that it's as addictive as commonly abused drugs, in fact it is a drug and works on the brain in the same manner. There have been countless scientific research studies performed that prove these facts. I direct you to a man named Gary Wilson, yourbrainonporn.com for more information.

 

Last we all need to be cognizant of the origins of pornography. It's been linked to eugenics. The eugenics community thought it critical that the people have easy widespread access to pornography. Aldous Huxley said you need to use Porn and sexuality as the release valve for a controlled society. I direct you to research the eugenics porn connection. The fact that porn is a eugenics social control tool, should be enough warning to stay away from it.

 

Look into the story about when Isreal invaded Palestine, took over the TV networks and started airing Porn on all the channels. Porn as a weapon of war.

 

Is it moral or immoral? It's just bad news. It cheapens life and human sexuality. Sex is the most powerful thing in people's lives, clearly someone is taking advantage of it.

 

Stay safe

[dsayers]

That's a lot of exaggeration, Mantis. By saying eugenics, you're saying that people would not have chosen porn unless it was inflicted upon them. I don't think that's even close to true.

 

From an epigenetic standpoint, in order to be accurately described as brain damage, it would have to be traumatic. This too looks like an exaggeration.

 

As for addiction, check out the first half of Stef's

Main point being that nothing is inherently addictive. Addiction refers to a person's receptiveness based on their past trauma. In which case, those who inflicted the trauma, and a lack of knowledge and processing are the problems. Not whether the afflicted nurse their abuse by way of alcohol, drugs, or porn.

 

You can say you think it's bad because of X, Y, and Z, but to exaggerate preference to serious objective claims is dishonest and irresponsible.

[Jer]

Last we all need to be cognizant of the origins of pornography. It's been linked to eugenics.

Stay safe

Pornography predates Eugenics by thousands of years and even if it had originated with eugenics that says nothing of the moral content. It's like saying "before you go vegetarian, remember Hitler didn't eat meat"

[Mantis]

To respond.

 

dsayers: That's a great question. Would people choose pornography if it wasn't promoted in society? And. Is the current state of pornography, it's widespread use and proliferation not simply a natural phenomenon?

 

I'm not saying that people wouldn't have used pornography if it hadn't been used as a eugenic operation. I'm simply saying that it is being used for eugenics and that is why it has become so prolific. Perhaps people would have naturally developed and welcomed porn into their societies, but I doubt that it would have become the perverted sickening mess that it is today. I think people are naturally sexually conservative. My point was simply that human sexuality has been hijacked. My goal is to understand why porn is the way it is. Why people are addicted to it. Then maybe the moral dilemma can be sorted out.

 

"The elite-managed "birth-control" movement, which culminated one hundred years later in the legalization of abortion, became visible and active during this period, annually distributing millions of pieces of literature aimed at controlling lower-class breeding instincts, an urgent priority on the national elitist agenda. Malthus, Darwin, Galton, and Pearson became secular saints at the Lawrence and Sheffield Scientific Schools at Harvard and Yale. Judge Ben Lindsey of the Denver Children's Court, flogging easy access to pornography as an indirect form of sterilization for underclass men, was a different tile in the same mosaic, as was institutional adoption." -

 

Gatto, John Taylor. The Underground History of American Education (2000): 0945700040

 

 

"The eugenics movement begun by Galton in England was energetically spread to the United States by his followers. Besides destroying lesser breeds (as they were routinely called) by abortion, sterilization, adoption, celibacy, two-job family separations, low- wage rates to dull the zest for life, and, above all, schooling to dull the mind and debase the character, other methods were clinically discussed in journals, including a childlessness which could be induced through easy access to pornography. At the same time those deemed inferior were to be turned into eunuchs, Galtonians advocated the notion of breeding a super race."

 

Gatto, John Taylor. The Underground History of American Education (2000): 0945700040

 

 

With regard to the scientific literature on pornography, brain changes and addiction, I'm just going to clip a few paragraphs and you will have to follow up and read the citations for yourself because I'm getting tried of writing this.

 

"German study which found 3 significant addiction-related brain changes correlating with the amount of porn consumed. It also found that more porn use correlated with less reward circuit activation"

 

http://yourbrainonporn.com/brain-structure-and-functional-connectivity-associated-pornography-consumption-2014

 

"The first in a series of Cambridge University studies found the same brain activity as seen in drug addicts and alcoholics. It also found that porn addicts fit the accepted addiction model"

 

http://yourbrainonporn.com/cambridge-university-brain-scans-find-porn-addiction

 

"Yet researchers have shown that mammals can be conditioned (and sometimes reconditioned) to adjust their sexual response with surprising ease."

 

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/are-sexual-tastes-immutable

 

 

"Research has shown that watching pornography may shrink the brain and dull responses to sexual stimulation."

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10862915/Watching-pornography-damages-mens-brains.html

 

 

Jers: Porn may in fact predate eugenics. I made a mistake in my wording, I was fired and not very rigorous when I wrote that post. I didn't mean that porn originates out of eugenics, what I meant was that today's pornography and the way it's working in society is a eugenic conception. I think if we are honest about the facts we would say definitively, yes, I want nothing to do with pornography if it's being used to destroy my sexuality, morals, and family life. Hitlers connection to vegetarianism does not corrupt vegetarianism because vegetarianism had no influence over the evils that Hitler committed. It's like saying Hitler rode a bicycle to work, bicycles must be banned.

 

Porn eugenic connection is relevant because porn and sexuality influence people's minds and behavior. If you use porn you are involved in a eugenic program. The propagandists learned a long time ago that sex was one of the most powerful methods of influencing people. Are you blinded to advertising these days?

 

"Simulated sex helps to dehumanize the whole act. The aim is to eliminate all emotion from the act so that, as Mustapha will later explain, loyalty to the state is never in competition with loyalty to an individual. The more that sex pervades every aspect of culture, the less important it becomes, and the less emotion attached to it." - Aldous Huxley

 

So again, immoral or moral. I'd say immoral. But more importantly is the scary fact that what sexuality is today, has been manufactured. You are mind sex controlled hahaha.

 

"The Substitutes for Religion, The Religion of Sex". - Aldous Huxley

 

"An intellectual is a person who has discovered something more interesting than sex." - Aldous Huxley

[Mantis]

To respond.

 

dsayers: That's a great question. Would people choose pornography if it wasn't promoted in society? And. Is the current state of pornography, it's widespread use and proliferation not simply a natural phenomenon?

 

I'm not saying that people wouldn't have used pornography if it hadn't been used as a eugenic operation. I'm simply saying that it is being used for eugenics and that is why it has become so prolific. Perhaps people would have naturally developed and welcomed porn into their societies, but I doubt that it would have become the perverted sickening mess that it is today. I think people are naturally sexually conservative. My point was simply that human sexuality has been hijacked. My goal is to understand why porn is the way it is. Why people are addicted to it. Then maybe the moral dilemma can be sorted out.

 

"The elite-managed "birth-control" movement, which culminated one hundred years later in the legalization of abortion, became visible and active during this period, annually distributing millions of pieces of literature aimed at controlling lower-class breeding instincts, an urgent priority on the national elitist agenda. Malthus, Darwin, Galton, and Pearson became secular saints at the Lawrence and Sheffield Scientific Schools at Harvard and Yale. Judge Ben Lindsey of the Denver Children's Court, flogging easy access to pornography as an indirect form of sterilization for underclass men, was a different tile in the same mosaic, as was institutional adoption." -

 

Gatto, John Taylor. The Underground History of American Education (2000): 0945700040

 

 

"The eugenics movement begun by Galton in England was energetically spread to the United States by his followers. Besides destroying lesser breeds (as they were routinely called) by abortion, sterilization, adoption, celibacy, two-job family separations, low- wage rates to dull the zest for life, and, above all, schooling to dull the mind and debase the character, other methods were clinically discussed in journals, including a childlessness which could be induced through easy access to pornography. At the same time those deemed inferior were to be turned into eunuchs, Galtonians advocated the notion of breeding a super race."

 

Gatto, John Taylor. The Underground History of American Education (2000): 0945700040

 

 

With regard to the scientific literature on pornography, brain changes and addiction, I'm just going to clip a few paragraphs and you will have to follow up and read the citations for yourself because I'm getting tried of writing this.

 

"German study which found 3 significant addiction-related brain changes correlating with the amount of porn consumed. It also found that more porn use correlated with less reward circuit activation"

 

http://yourbrainonporn.com/brain-structure-and-functional-connectivity-associated-pornography-consumption-2014

 

"The first in a series of Cambridge University studies found the same brain activity as seen in drug addicts and alcoholics. It also found that porn addicts fit the accepted addiction model"

 

http://yourbrainonporn.com/cambridge-university-brain-scans-find-porn-addiction

 

"Yet researchers have shown that mammals can be conditioned (and sometimes reconditioned) to adjust their sexual response with surprising ease."

 

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/are-sexual-tastes-immutable

 

 

"Research has shown that watching pornography may shrink the brain and dull responses to sexual stimulation."

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10862915/Watching-pornography-damages-mens-brains.html

 

 

Jers: Porn may in fact predate eugenics. I made a mistake in my wording, I was fired and not very rigorous when I wrote that post. I didn't mean that porn originates out of eugenics, what I meant was that today's pornography and the way it's working in society is a eugenic conception. I think if we are honest about the facts we would say definitively, yes, I want nothing to do with pornography if it's being used to destroy my sexuality, morals, and family life. Hitlers connection to vegetarianism does not corrupt vegetarianism because vegetarianism had no influence over the evils that Hitler committed. It's like saying Hitler rode a bicycle to work, bicycles must be banned.

 

Porn eugenic connection is relevant because porn and sexuality influence people's minds and behavior. If you use porn you are involved in a eugenic program. The propagandists learned a long time ago that sex was one of the most powerful methods of influencing people. Are you blinded to advertising these days?

 

"Simulated sex helps to dehumanize the whole act. The aim is to eliminate all emotion from the act so that, as Mustapha will later explain, loyalty to the state is never in competition with loyalty to an individual. The more that sex pervades every aspect of culture, the less important it becomes, and the less emotion attached to it." - Aldous Huxley

 

So again, immoral or moral. I'd say immoral. But more importantly is the scary fact that what sexuality is today, has been manufactured. You are mind sex controlled hahaha.

 

"The Substitutes for Religion, The Religion of Sex". - Aldous Huxley

 

"An intellectual is a person who has discovered something more interesting than sex." - Aldous Huxley

[dsayers]

This was excellent, thank you for sharing.

My pleasure. I was blown away it pointed out how drugs that promote violence are accepted while drugs that promote pleasure are demonized. It's one of the reason why I'm so active in this capacity in this thread: I think it's dangerous to regard something as problematic if it's not. Maintaining that position would be detrimental to self-knowledge and rational thought.

 

I think people are naturally sexually conservative.

On what basis? Not saying you're wrong, but it occurs to me that you're only here because "your ancestors ate and fucked everything that they could." -Penn Gillette, Bullshit!

 

Then maybe the moral dilemma can be sorted out.

This is spoken as if there is a moral dilemma. The making and consumption of most porn does not involve the initiation of the use of force. Therefore it is behavior that is not binding on others or is but with their consent. I see no moral dilemma other than some people are convinced that it is immoral when it in fact has no moral consideration.

 

While you're providing materials, did you avail yourself of the materials I've offered? You made no mention of this. Also, you haven't put forth any arguments. Just re-assertions of your initial post along with some appeals to authority.

 

"Simulated sex helps to dehumanize the whole act." - Aldous Huxley

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. We'd never even think to suggest that a kid tossing a ball at a hoop dehumanizes basketball. Or that watching a game on TV dehumanizes basketball. If you're interested in conspiracy theories and immorality, then what about the one where people are shamed for being sexual beings?

[dsayers]

 

Hey I made a mistake posting on the FDR forum. I've been following Stef since 2009-2010 so I've heard and seen it all on FDR trust me.

However I haven't been following as closely for roughly two years. I only occasionally dip in for a podcast and very rarely look at the boards to see what's been talked about.

I saw the pornography thread and thought I'd share some information on the topic. I didn't care where it went, I wasn't looking for a debate. My mistake I should have been aware that on the FDR forum someone would want to debate.

It looks like you appeal to Stef for authority. You are an FDR noob, probably pretty young. You sound foolish, you definitely haven't grown up yet. You did not address any of the information that I presented. No I didn't look at stefs addiction podcast because I've left the conversation.

If you want to address the information I presented to back up my assertions please do. You are guilty of your own fallacies that you are touting.

It's clear to me that your goal is to argue. You aren't a truth seeker all. The fact you call yourself a seeker is plain that you are an avoided.

Dude you are caught up in FDR hook line and sinker. It's not a good look. I'll be interested to see what you think in 5 years when you grow up.

I think Stef has done amazing work and FDR has some valuable information. But dude you haven't outgrown FDR yet and you sound silly.

If you want to debate I'm willing. At this point I lost track of your position. I don't know what your argument and stance is. If you want to restart and debate the topic of pornography I'm willing.

Thanks buddy.

 

It's not normally my practice to share private messages, but this is a continuation of the conversation I was presented with (entitled "you sound like a noob"). I offer it as it is instructive as to why we need to think rationally and not allow claims to go unchallenged. And to demonstrate the damage that can be done by blindly accepting when people tell you that something is harmful despite being perfectly natural. If there's an argument in there, I missed it.

[J. D. Stembal]

Hi J.D.

I don't think moderate masturbation is necessarily unhealthy. Pornography is another, albeit closely related, issue. Personally, I don't find enough positive aspects to justify spending my time consuming it.

 

Moreover, I find that if I don't watch, I put myself in the position of engaging with my sexuality differently. Part of that is the replacement of strange women (as in completely unknown to me) with women I know, or have known, or women I have the possibility of knowing better in sexual thoughts.

 

Personally, I think this is a more positive psychology. I also have begun to wonder about how the sexual energy that is utilized when watching porn is otherwise put to use. Maybe that energy should be put into the service of making myself a more fit partner for the 'real' women that are in my life or that come into it?

 

I think you're using an apt analogy, but when one considers the complete supply chain of both industries, I think it's pretty clear that on the whole the wise choice is to consume neither.

 

What are you going to put that energy into doing or achieving? I weight lift, but I do it because I empathize with my future self, not because I wish to provide value to women. I view masturbation and pornography as a pacifier to mind the health and well-being of my male plumbing because there are no women worth fucking. I've been sober and celibate for almost 20 months.

[MysterionMuffles]

 

 if you find you cannot climax without visual fantasy or porn, that should tell you something! Further, a lot of guys experience a sort of withdrawal called a flatline. Zero libido (and I mean ZERO! Penis feels completely devoid of life), dramatic mood swings, symptoms similar to depression, etc. This isn’t an indication that giving up porn or masturbation is bad for you….rather, it shows how deeply ingrained the need has become. There is another side of the flatline where things return to “normal,” except normal is about 100% improvement from where you were, before. Mine lasted more than two months, but it was so worth getting to the other side of it.

 

 

Here’s the video that got me started on the path to resetting my brain: 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU

 

 

Oh man I forgot I read your post last month, but I want to take the time to thank you for sharing your experience and elaborate explanation of how it affected your brain. 

 

I was consuming a lot of porn last month, almost every other night if not every night, but as the weeks went by, I reduced my consumption. I think I'm down to once a week, but I've been so busy working my jobby job, editing my book, and playing video games that I haven't even made the time to watch porn. And when I do, I just don't find it stimulating anymore. I'm at the point of low libido I think. I still think of sex compulsively, but I'm not getting aroused by the thought of it like I usually would. I was worried for a while that there might be something wrong with me, but revisitting this post has reminded me that this decline is a good thing. It does remind me of another time a few years ago where I gave up porn for a whole month. Even though I was doing healthier things like yoga and journal, I had one week of low energy, but after that, I started noticing the beauty in common everyday women, had more energy and yeah...I would just like to go back there, but this time commit to keeping my energy levels up this way.

[Invicta]

I find pornography to be an incredibly liberating tool in my life. I view my sex drive as a primitive relic of from before the human animal gained self awareness. I see porn as a necessary steping stone for humans to reach the ultimate goal of deliberate reproductive control. We will eventually need 100% comtrol of reproduction for interstellar travel and colonization.

A more immediate concern that can be resolved with pornography is the necessity of frequent ejaculations for prostate health. The current consensus of frequency is a minimum of 20 per month. With regard to my own health, I much rather use pornography to maintain prostate health than expose myself to the risks of sex with corrupt women.

[Frosty]

I find pornography to be an incredibly liberating tool in my life. I view my sex drive as a primitive relic of from before the human animal gained self awareness. I see porn as a necessary steping stone for humans to reach the ultimate goal of deliberate reproductive control. We will eventually need 100% comtrol of reproduction for interstellar travel and colonization.

 

This is something I've thought about a bit in recent months, the biology of sex especially regarding evolution. Before we had the ability of self awareness and complex thought, our behaviour was primarily guided by impulse created by chemical moderation in our body such as being horny or hungry. Now we have the intellectual ability to decide to have children and pass on genes but we're still left with this urge to reproduce, it's just a function of our body and that's how I've come to think of it.

 

If you think about it, sex and masturbation require work and they produce positive feelings, all the reward chemicals we like etc. However despite having access to an essentially infinite amount of porn, or in a steady relationship regular access to sex, we don't do it all the time. If the positives of ejaculation and the feeling of intercourse or masturbation outweighed the benefits you'd expect it to naturally occur more than it does, however when you think about it, most of the time it happens when you're horny and your body chemistry is signalling to you to engage in this behaviour, which then subsides when you're done. The comedian Louis CK has commented in the past about how this cycle is really just "maintenance" and in some sense for a single male it's just a burden that needs to be done.

 

I've often pondered as a single male if I had the opportunity to take a drug to temporarily eliminate that urge, would I take it? Probably. While we do have these kinds of hormonal urges to have sex, porn remains a useful tool for satisfying that need fast and efficiently so we can get back to doing whatever else more productive and/or inherently enjoyable.

[MysterionMuffles]

I find pornography to be an incredibly liberating tool in my life. I view my sex drive as a primitive relic of from before the human animal gained self awareness. I see porn as a necessary steping stone for humans to reach the ultimate goal of deliberate reproductive control. We will eventually need 100% comtrol of reproduction for interstellar travel and colonization.

A more immediate concern that can be resolved with pornography is the necessity of frequent ejaculations for prostate health. The current consensus of frequency is a minimum of 20 per month. With regard to my own health, I much rather use pornography to maintain prostate health than expose myself to the risks of sex with corrupt women.

 

Oh man, please tell me more what you know, I am interested. Isn't it still just as healthy to abstain and allow sperm to come and go, or even nocturnal emissions to occur? 

[Walter E. Strong]

"I stopped watching porn earlier this year - but more for practical than ethical reasons if I'm honest. I think frequent porn consumption/masturbation badly distorts your sexuality, arousal response, etc."

 

BINGO!  We have a winner!

[Matthew Ed Moran]

I think there is a big overlap between porn usage, and some serious childhood issues of being poorly modeled sexuality. I think there might be healthy porn usage, but I think what a lot of males refer to when they talk of quitting porn is something different. I think they have in mind something more severe.

 

It's horrifying to think about for me, but my first exposure to sexuality was inflicted from essentially strangers who were my peers. People who I barely remember and who themselves were not modeled healthy sexuality. The horror I face thinking about it was how contemptuously I was neglected about a subject which would be essential for me to learn about. My mother never talked with me about sex, and therefore I was handed to the underground scum of society to learn. An 8 year old boy thrown into a shameless pit of sexual dysfunction because his mother chose to be a coward. That is reprehensible and damaging, and I know I must not be the only one who was neglected in this way.

 

Then besides the neglect (which is inherently shaming), there were the experiences where I was taught my sexuality was shameful. I won't go into the details, but at a certain age masturbation was a terror for me since I was so afraid of others knowing what I was doing. I even admitted when I started to a friend, and this friend was so cruel as to torture me with threats of telling the teachers for weeks. So I was taught my sexuality was something I should isolate from others.

 

Fundamentally, having a single mother meant that my most important model for sexuality had essentially used sexual appeal against my father to have a gun pointed at his head for her state benefits. That's a stark reality and a grave introduction to sexuality to say the least.

 

I don't know about others, but I have a disdain for porn stars who would take advantage of my bad childhood and reinforce damaging sexuality to me. There are men under 18 who watch porn, who essentially are as innocent as any child, and they are being preyed upon by society and a hollow porn industry which profits from their isolation and misfortune.

 

I think that's pretty damn reprehensible in the grand scheme of things, so I would find it highly suspect to focus on females victims as if there are not males victims of even greater magnitude and in even greater number, which there definitely are.

 

I do expect to reinforce more healthy sexual habits over time as I unravel the shame society stuck in my gut, but I think there is also a forgiveness I owe myself, to recognize it was not my shame to take on in the first place. If I am inflicting myself with sexual beliefs I do not enjoy fully, then I don't want to punish myself for what my parents and society did to me. Instead I want to stick them with shame they deserve and have chosen with conscious will at my expense.

 

I think anger could be a powerful tool here to place the shame where it belongs, which is not with the victims of piss poor models of sexuality that pass for females these days, but with the adult females themselves. It should be entirely predictable that men would be blamed for the shortcomings of women in this area, so I think it's important not to condone their blaming and shaming.

[Copper_Heart]

I think there is a big overlap between porn usage, and some serious childhood issues of being poorly modeled sexuality. I think there might be healthy porn usage, but I think what a lot of males refer to when they talk of quitting porn is something different. I think they have in mind something more severe.

 

It's horrifying to think about for me, but my first exposure to sexuality was inflicted from essentially strangers who were my peers. People who I barely remember and who themselves were not modeled healthy sexuality. The horror I face thinking about it was how contemptuously I was neglected about a subject which would be essential for me to learn about. My mother never talked with me about sex, and therefore I was handed to the underground scum of society to learn. An 8 year old boy thrown into a shameless pit of sexual dysfunction because his mother chose to be a coward. That is reprehensible and damaging, and I know I must not be the only one who was neglected in this way.

 

Then besides the neglect (which is inherently shaming), there were the experiences where I was taught my sexuality was shameful. I won't go into the details, but at a certain age masturbation was a terror for me since I was so afraid of others knowing what I was doing. I even admitted when I started to a friend, and this friend was so cruel as to torture me with threats of telling the teachers for weeks. So I was taught my sexuality was something I should isolate from others.

 

Fundamentally, having a single mother meant that my most important model for sexuality had essentially used sexual appeal against my father to have a gun pointed at his head for her state benefits. That's a stark reality and a grave introduction to sexuality to say the least.

 

I don't know about others, but I have a disdain for porn stars who would take advantage of my bad childhood and reinforce damaging sexuality to me. There are men under 18 who watch porn, who essentially are as innocent as any child, and they are being preyed upon by society and a hollow porn industry which profits from their isolation and misfortune.

 

I think that's pretty damn reprehensible in the grand scheme of things, so I would find it highly suspect to focus on females victims as if there are not males victims of even greater magnitude and in even greater number, which there definitely are.

 

I do expect to reinforce more healthy sexual habits over time as I unravel the shame society stuck in my gut, but I think there is also a forgiveness I owe myself, to recognize it was not my shame to take on in the first place. If I am inflicting myself with sexual beliefs I do not enjoy fully, then I don't want to punish myself for what my parents and society did to me. Instead I want to stick them with shame they deserve and have chosen with conscious will at my expense.

 

I think anger could be a powerful tool here to place the shame where it belongs, which is not with the victims of piss poor models of sexuality that pass for females these days, but with the adult females themselves. It should be entirely predictable that men would be blamed for the shortcomings of women in this area, so I think it's important not to condone their blaming and shaming.

 

Exactly this. Story of my life. It is shameful and it's addictive. How to think about? How to talk about? The problem is not only that we were not told about sex, the problem is also lack of trust and health in family. If an adult is afraid to talk about that, how child is supposed to deal with it? And it's starts to get worse as disfunctionality and deviation arises.

 

It would be good to create some group/subforum here that centers specifically on sexuality and how to deal with it. It's topic related to extreme shame just in general and I think it would be a step forward.

 

That was a great comment. Thanks.

 

There is a book by Eric Berne "Sex in human loving", that talks more or less about this staff.