Mprobison Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I don't believe nor doubt, I just verify. Sure I have opinions -suspicions- but nothing that I would ever admit in public... except to perhaps some friendly knowledgeable folk. I was told that this isn't a form of philosophy, but something more akin to logic or sophistry. I'm having trouble creating a counterpoint to this assertion. Any friendly knowledgeable folk available? I doubt that assertion, without any real explanation... but a gut feeling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A4E Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 When Osama Bin Laden was blamed for 9/11, there was and still is no evidence to support this theory. Yet I imagine more than 99 percent of the world believed it when they were told, including me. Neither believe nor doubt, but verify, sure is like a hammer for a nail when it comes to truth. It's just that it is not used nearly at all in todays society, except for communities like this. If it is told by a perceived authority, then most people will believe. I tried to make people in my country embrace the verification method, using various techniques about half a decade. Some people who believe will feel the need to put down or attack the one who is calling their belief into question, which might be why so few are advocating this method, because they are afraid of being ostracized from their often strong believing environments. However, even though I was called many names, it seems that my country has embraced this method somewhat more now, so I like to think that I had some effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Ed Moran Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I don't believe nor doubt, I just verify. Sure I have opinions -suspicions- but nothing that I would ever admit in public... except to perhaps some friendly knowledgeable folk. I was told that this isn't a form of philosophy, but something more akin to logic or sophistry. I'm having trouble creating a counterpoint to this assertion. Any friendly knowledgeable folk available? I doubt that assertion, without any real explanation... but a gut feeling. I would say philosophy is objective and not personal. Your opinions and beliefs are personal and subjective; but you apply philosophy to test your beliefs and opinions when they can be compared to physical reality, which is consistent and logical. Physical reality is communicated through sense data, and then validated by philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsayers Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Welcome, Mprobison! I don't believe nor doubt, I just verify. I would argue that the behavior of verifying is the result of belief or doubt as a motivator. I've argued before that "belief" is a temporary state; Only valuable if used as motivation to test the theory in order to upgrade it to truth, or discard it as not accurately describing the real world. In this way, I think verifying demonstrates the uncertainty that "believe" and "doubt" refer to. You don't present day verify that 2+2=4 because you experience no uncertainty with regards to that proposition. I was told that this isn't a form of philosophy, but something more akin to logic or sophistry. I'm having trouble creating a counterpoint to this assertion. The term philosophy denotes a love of wisdom or pursuit of the truth. I would ask those who are making the assertion to define their terms before bothering to respond to it. Philosophy refers to a method, not the goal the method is used to achieve. So opening the Bible to test if something is true would be bad philosophy. Testing an objective claim to see how accurately it describes the real world is good philosophy. To this end, neither belief nor doubt are good philosophy alone, but verifying isn't necessarily good philosophy if the method used to verify is problematic. Does this help at all? What do you think about it? Nitpicky side note: Philosophy is objective. Even though it's relatively common parlance, the phrase "my/personal philosophy" is about as absurd as referring to math as "my/personal math." Thought I'd point that out since you seem as if you'd appreciate precision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosencrantz Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 It sounds like positivism to me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positivism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Torbald Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I don't believe nor doubt, I just verify. Sure I have opinions -suspicions- but nothing that I would ever admit in public... except to perhaps some friendly knowledgeable folk. I was told that this isn't a form of philosophy, but something more akin to logic or sophistry. I'm having trouble creating a counterpoint to this assertion. Any friendly knowledgeable folk available? I doubt that assertion, without any real explanation... but a gut feeling. And after verifying, what do you do? "Oh, I verified Pythagoras' theorem. Now I will believe in it" - do you do that? Or do you say "I have verified it, but I still won't believe it" because you just can't believe anything? The first one is simple empiricism. The second one is nihilism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mprobison Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Thank you all. Before I can answer your questions, I have to actually understand myself a bit better. As always, new eyes make things much clearer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 It's trust vs faith. That's all. If you never trust, you'll live like a savage. If you always believe, you'll live like a victim. Trust is a product of verification. There is philosophy in there, i think. Because it's that reasoned distinction between trust & faith that changes everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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