Why does society classify pedophilia as a common crime ?

[Flying]

What I mean by common crime is this. Bank robbery for example. We could theoretically say that we are all susceptible to committing bank robbery in some way. Maybe we were in some country with an oppressive regime committing genocide and all we had to do to get ourselves out is rob a bank. Bank robbery is an evil act because you are holding people hostage at gunpoint and stealing.

 

Now think about when you see some reporting on the news that "some evil bastard" raped or molested a kid. Or you see some protest about some "evil criminal" pedophile getting let out of prison. By classifying this behavior as a crime or as an act of evil (like bank robbery) it implies that we are all susceptible to the behavior. When obviously we are not.

 

Pedophilia is obviously a mental disorder. But who would know it the way it is reported in the media ? Could it be that this might get too messy for politically correct movement and its relation to gays ? If gays were born that way, are pedo's not born that way too ? Or are pedo's just criminals ? Normal men but just evil ?

 

Its ridiculous.

 

[dsayers]

You've used the words raped, molested, and pedophilia as if they're interchangeable. For the sake of precision, rape and molestation are behaviors. Pedophilia is a preference. I'm sure there are tons of pedophiles that have never acted out on their fantasies just as I'm sure there's tons of Corvette lovers that have never stolen a car. Likewise, I'm sure there are tons of child molesters that aren't pedophiles. Sexual assault is more about wrath, vengeance, and control than sex.

 

Also, you used the words media and crime. It's important to understand, as I'm sure that you do, that what the media and mafia say is no measure for what is true. That said, the media works for the mafia, so of course they want you to hate the bank robber (person rather than behavior), child molester, pedophiles, corporations, and so on. Anything to keep you distracted long enough to not focus on the institutionalized coercion of the State.

[Flying]

You've used the words raped, molested, and pedophilia as if they're interchangeable. For the sake of precision, rape and molestation are behaviors. Pedophilia is a preference. I'm sure there are tons of pedophiles that have never acted out on their fantasies just as I'm sure there's tons of Corvette lovers that have never stolen a car. Likewise, I'm sure there are tons of child molesters that aren't pedophiles. Sexual assault is more about wrath, vengeance, and control than sex.

 

Also, you used the words media and crime. It's important to understand, as I'm sure that you do, that what the media and mafia say is no measure for what is true. That said, the media works for the mafia, so of course they want you to hate the bank robber (person rather than behavior), child molester, pedophiles, corporations, and so on. Anything to keep you distracted long enough to not focus on the institutionalized coercion of the State.

First off I don't think that there is tons of child molesters that aren't pedophiles. Is child molestation not an act of pedophilia ?

 

I understand that you are making the distinction between pedophiles that act on it compared to the ones that don't. But just because they didn't act on it does not make them normal. Just as a homosexual isn't a heterosexual until he commits a homosexual act.

 

I should not have said media. What I mean is, societies generally accepted perception of something. Societies generally accepted perception of pedophilia is that it is criminal or evil behavior. Just as the religious class thinks that of homosexuals. But now society says that homosexuality is normal and gays are born that way. But are pedophiles not born that way too ? Double standard no ?

 

As I can see it, is that both homosexuals and pedophiles are not normal. They are both disorders. But society says that gays are perfectly normal and pedophiles are just criminals. Thats a cop out.

 

The PC class treats pedophiles like ISIS treats gays. When they are both born that way. I just think the playing field should be leveled off a bit. A bit less praise for homosexuals and some understanding toward pedophiles. If the PC class didn't treat pedophiles like this, maybe there would be less stigma and these men would seek ways to deal with their disorder properly. But imagine some pedophile therapy place opened up. I bet it would get vandalized.

[Wuzzums]

It is way simpler to judge a person by what they do and not what they say. A lot of people prefer the opposite mainly because they have such great pitches for the great persona of themselves. People of no consequence like to equate preference with action. They pursue titles but not skill. I think that when such a person hears the word "pedophilia" they immediately think it implies having molested a child, much in the same way they hear the word "mother" and assume some mothering was done.

 

I don't think it's a cop out exactly to call one disorder evil over the other. Children fall under a different moral category than adults, they're not responsible for their actions in the same manner an adult is. The responsibility of making the choice to have sex falls equally between two people of the same moral category, i.e. two adult gays having sex. In contrast to this, because a child cannot be fully responsible for their actions the responsibility for sex between an adult and child falls fully on the adult. Thus the adult makes the choice for the child. This is not evil in itself but if you consider the choice is just made for the adult's gratification then the child is objectified as just being a means to an end and not the end itself. We can safely say that molestation is never in the best interest of the child.

 

Pedophiles are the most likely people in the world to molest children, why wouldn't a society ostracize them? It's triage. If we don't want to get sick we have to identify the sick and avoid them as much as possible. When someone has an illness that is permanent and it affects the spreading of your genes negatively, the repulsion we feel towards pedophiles is understandable. People only started accepting homosexuality when they learned it's not contagious and it does not affect them in a negative fashion.

 

Psychopathy might also be an inherent disease and people are just born that way. Should we accept psychopathy in the same way we accept homosexuality?

[dsayers]

I understand that you are making the distinction between pedophiles that act on it compared to the ones that don't. But just because they didn't act on it does not make them normal.

You're collectivizing again. I never claimed "they" were normal because I never referenced "them." I referenced a preference they possess. How can you say that somebody that prefers purple over red or italian food over mexican food isn't normal? It's just a preference. If by "normal" you mean "undamaged," then I would argue that somebody who is attracted to or aroused by the pre-pubescent form and doesn't molest children IS normal. Because it would indicate empathy.

 

Anyways, this quote confuses me. Are you saying there's NOT a difference between somebody who has a rape fantasy and a rapist?

 

Just as a homosexual isn't a heterosexual until he commits a homosexual act.

Again, homosexuality refers to a preference/attraction, not a behavior. There's no such thing as a homosexual act. I'm not gay, but my first sexual experience was from a same age male friend, who also wasn't gay (I knew of him for many years after). I would bet money that almost every instance of prison rape was not perpetrated by people who identify as homosexual.

 

There's nothing really to gain from likening "a homosexual act" and child molestation. Presumably, a "homosexual act" is between consenting individuals. As a child is not able to consent, the act of child molestation is predatory. At which point, we begin to get to the heart of your question as to why society treats somebody capable of child molestation as a scourge. A child might not be able to recognize a behavior as sexual assault and if they did, would not conceivably be able to stop it.

 

I encourage you to check out Alison Gopnik's work, including her book The Philosophical Baby. She's done a lot to prove that humans are naturally empathetic (which makes evolutionary sense). I think that your assertion that child molesters are born that way is false. People will not speak the language of aggression unless they are exposed to it. Child molesters are victims of abuse, usually sexual abuse. This cycle is another reason why I think society shows pronounced hatred for child molestation.

[Sima]

I dont want to be murdered, so i dont murder, i dont want to be robbed, so i dont rob other people, i dont want to molested as a child by some  older guy, so i dont molest children.  

[Flying]

It is way simpler to judge a person by what they do and not what they say. A lot of people prefer the opposite mainly because they have such great pitches for the great persona of themselves. People of no consequence like to

 

It is way simpler to judge a person by what they do and not what they say. A lot of people prefer the opposite mainly because they have such great pitches for the great persona of themselves. People of no consequence like to equate preference with action. They pursue titles but not skill. I think that when such a person hears the word "pedophilia" they immediately think it implies having molested a child, much in the same way they hear the word "mother" and assume some mothering was done.

 

I don't think it's a cop out exactly to call one disorder evil over the other. Children fall under a different moral category than adults, they're not responsible for their actions in the same manner an adult is. The responsibility of making the choice to have sex falls equally between two people of the same moral category, i.e. two adult gays having sex. In contrast to this, because a child cannot be fully responsible for their actions the responsibility for sex between an adult and child falls fully on the adult. Thus the adult makes the choice for the child. This is not evil in itself but if you consider the choice is just made for the adult's gratification then the child is objectified as just being a means to an end and not the end itself. We can safely say that molestation is never in the best interest of the child.

 

Pedophiles are the most likely people in the world to molest children, why wouldn't a society ostracize them? It's triage. If we don't want to get sick we have to identify the sick and avoid them as much as possible. When someone has an illness that is permanent and it affects the spreading of your genes negatively, the repulsion we feel towards pedophiles is understandable. People only started accepting homosexuality when they learned it's not contagious and it does not affect them in a negative fashion.

 

Psychopathy might also be an inherent disease and people are just born that way. Should we accept psychopathy in the same way we accept homosexuality?

 

 

equate preference with action. They pursue titles but not skill. I think that when such a person hears the word "pedophilia" they immediately think it implies having molested a child, much in the same way they hear the word "mother" and assume some mothering was done.

 

I don't think it's a cop out exactly to call one disorder evil over the other. Children fall under a different moral category than adults, they're not responsible for their actions in the same manner an adult is. The responsibility of making the choice to have sex falls equally between two people of the same moral category, i.e. two adult gays having sex. In contrast to this, because a child cannot be fully responsible for their actions the responsibility for sex between an adult and child falls fully on the adult. Thus the adult makes the choice for the child. This is not evil in itself but if you consider the choice is just made for the adult's gratification then the child is objectified as just being a means to an end and not the end itself. We can safely say that molestation is never in the best interest of the child.

 

Pedophiles are the most likely people in the world to molest children, why wouldn't a society ostracize them? It's triage. If we don't want to get sick we have to identify the sick and avoid them as much as possible. When someone has an illness that is permanent and it affects the spreading of your genes negatively, the repulsion we feel towards pedophiles is understandable. People only started accepting homosexuality when they learned it's not contagious and it does not affect them in a negative fashion.

 

Psychopathy might also be an inherent disease and people are just born that way. Should we accept psychopathy in the same way we accept homosexuality?

 

The main reason why gays have (maybe rightly) been afforded pretty much the same rights and heterosexuals is because it has been accepted that they are born that way. So a precedent is set. The precedent is that you cannot discriminate against someone who cant help it because they were born a certain way.

 

Or do you think it is a different reason why gays are more accepted these days ?

[dsayers]

Or do you think it is a different reason why gays are more accepted these days ?

Both Wuzzums and I have pointed out that being homosexual is not harming people. Is there a reason why you proceed as if this has not been pointed out?

[Flying]

I dont want to be murdered, so i dont murder, i dont want to be robbed, so i dont rob other people, i dont want to molested as a child by some  older guy, so i dont molest children.  

One of the things on your list is not like the  others.

 

One of the things on the list is done because of a serious disorder. The rest are common crimes that anyone is susceptible of doing. In war zones, normal people have murdered. Normal ppl have robbed. But no normal person ever molested a kid because they were in a war zone

[Flying]

You're collectivizing again. I never claimed "they" were normal because I never referenced "them." I referenced a preference they possess. How can you say that somebody that prefers purple over red or italian food over mexican food isn't normal? It's just a preference. If by "normal" you mean "undamaged," then I would argue that somebody who is attracted to or aroused by the pre-pubescent form and doesn't molest children IS normal. Because it would indicate empathy.

 

Anyways, this quote confuses me. Are you saying there's NOT a difference between somebody who has a rape fantasy and a rapist?

 

Again, homosexuality refers to a preference/attraction, not a behavior. There's no such thing as a homosexual act. I'm not gay, but my first sexual experience was from a same age male friend, who also wasn't gay (I knew of him for many years after). I would bet money that almost every instance of prison rape was not perpetrated by people who identify as homosexual.

 

There's nothing really to gain from likening "a homosexual act" and child molestation. Presumably, a "homosexual act" is between consenting individuals. As a child is not able to consent, the act of child molestation is predatory. At which point, we begin to get to the heart of your question as to why society treats somebody capable of child molestation as a scourge. A child might not be able to recognize a behavior as sexual assault and if they did, would not conceivably be able to stop it.

 

I encourage you to check out Alison Glopnik's work, including her book The Philosophical Baby. She's done a lot to prove that humans are naturally empathetic (which makes evolutionary sense). I think that your assertion that child molesters are born that way is false. People will not speak the language of aggression unless they are exposed to it. Child molesters are victims of abuse, usually sexual abuse. This cycle is another reason why I think society shows pronounced hatred for child molestation.

Homosexuality is not a preference in the same way that Italian vs Chinese food is a preference. Heterosexuality is normal. Biology has proven that. Sorry if its not PC enough for you. Men have not evolved to be attracted to other men. You can say that homosexuality has not evolved out of the gene pool. But that proves that it is a disorder. In the same way that downs syndrome is a disorder. But is still prevalent.

 

To your second point.. Some men are born gay. This is proven. They prefer sex with men and are attracted to men and will pick a man over a woman every time. They simply are not sexually attracted to women. I am saying that these men are gay. And men who are sexually attracted to women are not gay. Even if they have performed a gay act. There is even men that try to be gay but cant. And then there is men who accidentally partake in gay acts with transvestites. That does not make them gay either.

 

And I am not likening a homosexual act to child molestation. I am saying that both are disorders that some people are born with.

 

You are saying that homosexuality and heterosexuality is a choice that people just make and that pedophilia is just another vice that belongs on the same menu as gambling, drugs and prostitution.

Both Wuzzums and I have pointed out that being homosexual is not harming people. Is there a reason why you proceed as if this has not been pointed out?

Down syndrome does not harm other people either. Does that mean its normal ?

 

And I never said homosexuality harmed people. And I agree that it doesn't.

[dsayers]

One of the things on the list is done because of a serious disorder...

 

And I am not likening a homosexual act to child molestation. I am saying that both are disorders that some people are born with.

Ah, the reason you are proceeding is because you need for a child molester to not have chosen their aggression. Who in your history would benefit from being relieved of responsibility for molesting a child?

 

In war zones, normal people have murdered. Normal ppl have robbed. But no normal person ever molested a kid because they were in a war zone

"normal person" undefined aside, going by your contextual use, I would say you don't know your history very well at all. Sexual assault, including of children has been a part of war from ancient history all the way up to 2015. You're forgetting that people who do the assault and killing in wars have accepted that they and/or their leaders exist is a separate moral category and/or that the people they are harming aren't actually people and/or deserve it. So either the distinction you've made is flat out false or your classification of "normal person" is erroneous, which means the distinction is meaningless.

 

Homosexuality is not a preference in the same way that Italian vs Chinese food is a preference.

After this, you went on to describe that the way to identify somebody as homosexual is by way of their preference.

 

You are saying that homosexuality and heterosexuality is a choice that people just make

No, what I said was that voluntary behaviors are a choice. Why would you misrepresent what I've said in such close proximity of what I've actually said?

 

Sorry if its not PC enough for you.

In a climate where it's VERY fashionable to conflate pedophilia with child molestation, I have repeatedly taken the position that pedophiles are not predators even though child molesters are, because preferences aren't the same as behaviors. In light of this, how have you arrived at the conclusion that "PC" is of any interest to me?

 

You're bringing a LOT of baggage to the topic. I think you're not being completely honest about what it is we're talking about. Perhaps not even with yourself. I think this would literally be a life-changing source of self-knowledge for you and I hope you'll experience enough cognitive dissonance regarding the errors I've pointed out that you will be motivated to pursue that.

[Flying]

Ah, the reason you are proceeding is because you need for a child molester to not have chosen their aggression. Who in your history would benefit from being relieved of responsibility for molesting a child?

 

"normal person" undefined aside, going by your contextual use, I would say you don't know your history very well at all. Sexual assault, including of children has been a part of war from ancient history all the way up to 2015. You're forgetting that people who do the assault and killing in wars have accepted that they and/or their leaders exist is a separate moral category and/or that the people they are harming aren't actually people and/or deserve it. So either the distinction you've made is flat out false or your classification of "normal person" is erroneous, which means the distinction is meaningless.

 

After this, you went on to describe that the way to identify somebody as homosexual is by way of their preference.

 

No, what I said was that voluntary behaviors are a choice. Why would you misrepresent what I've said in such close proximity of what I've actually said?

 

In a climate where it's VERY fashionable to conflate pedophilia with child molestation, I have repeatedly taken the position that pedophiles are not predators even though child molesters are, because preferences aren't the same as behaviors. In light of this, how have you arrived at the conclusion that "PC" is of any interest to me?

 

You're bringing a LOT of baggage to the topic. I think you're not being completely honest about what it is we're talking about. Perhaps not even with yourself. I think this would literally be a life-changing source of self-knowledge for you and I hope you'll experience enough cognitive dissonance regarding the errors I've pointed out that you will be motivated to pursue that.

 If a pedophile, acted on his disorder and committed an act of aggression then he has to face the consequences. And it does not relieve any responsibility of the offender. So you can refrain from trying your hardest within the rules of this forum to make this about me. But anyway.. there you go again... You are saying that a person simply broke the law (in this case child molestation) and he is simply a criminal in the same way that bank robbers are criminals. And by processing it this way, you are implying that everyone is susceptible to breaking this law in the same way that we are all susceptible to breaking other laws. And you are basically pretending that pedophilia does not exist. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. Pedophilia does exist and it is a disorder.

 

Pedophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent ...

 

Your second paragraph is a cop out. I have personally heard accounts from people who had to kill with their bare hands or be killed in war. And war is always full of looting, theft and hostage taking. Give me some examples of random people performing child sexual assaults because of war. That just doesn't work.

 

Sexuality is not a preference. If you think sexuality is a preference, are you saying that pedophilia is also a preference ?  Do you support the abolition of incest laws ? A brother and sister getting married and having kids could be a voluntary choice.

 

In this climate yes. Child molestation is the act of pedophilia. Child molesters are pedophiles. And a man can be born with this disorder without acting on it. But that does not mean he doesn't have the disorder.

 

And I think PC has something to do with the misguided conclusions you have convinced yourself of because you are not comfortable with anything that diverts the mainstream narrative of homosexuality.

[Sima]

One of the things on your list is not like the  others.

 

One of the things on the list is done because of a serious disorder. The rest are common crimes that anyone is susceptible of doing. In war zones, normal people have murdered. Normal ppl have robbed. But no normal person ever molested a kid because they were in a war zone

 

when i was a child a wanted to kiss a particular boy in my school, because i liked him a lot. That was my dream. Never heard of children dreaming of being molested. I think for me it would have been one of the biggest terrors that could happen.  

 

moreover, start concentrating on the victims instead of perpetrators. Who is more important: the one who harms, or the one who gets harmed. The victim didnt ask to be harmed, but the perpetrator has more chances to stop harm and not to do it.

[Flying]

when i was a child a wanted to kiss a particular boy in my school, because i liked him a lot. That was my dream. Never heard of children dreaming of being molested. I think for me it would have been one of the biggest terrors that could happen.  

 

moreover, start concentrating on the victims instead of perpetrators. Who is more important: the one who harms, or the one who gets harmed. The victim didnt ask to be harmed, but the perpetrator has more chances to stop harm and not to do it.

I am unsure how your first comment is a retort to my point. I never said children dreamed of being molested. Obviously that is ridiculous.

 

This is a discussion about how society views pedophilia. If you want to start a thread about something else, go ahead.

 

The victim indeed did not ask to be harmed. And I never said they did. And that statement has nothing to do with the discussion.

 

You seem to be implying that pedophilia is a vice that all people are susceptible to, like drugs.(and as a normal human being without this disorder, I take offense to this) You seem to be implying that acts of child molestation is simply a law that should not be broken and that the born disorder called pedophilia does not even exist. 

[Sima]

if pedofiles are just disabled people, we cant judge them, just as insane people they would do their acts openly, it would be claer to society that they are disabled mentally, and they would be isolated from society as very crazy people are locked in mental wards.

Because they do their acts secretly, it means they do know its not good, therefore they are not insane. If they are not insane, they should be empathical and not to harm children.

I might want to go shopping for 1 0000 dollars, but i dont do that, it harms me and my partner in long term. I have a wish and need, but i see harm. I dont kill my co worker even if im very angry at him. I am sane. If id kill him, i would do it secretly. If i do it openly, i would be considered at least a bit insane. 

 

i see this argument different: for me it looks as if you are asking if your parents were criminals, or just disabled, therefore you cant judge them. I say i dont care if your parents were criminals, or disabled, if you are a victim ,it doesnt matter.  

[Flying]

Ah, the reason you are proceeding is because you need for a child molester to not have chosen their aggression. Who in your history would benefit from being relieved of responsibility for molesting a child?

 

"normal person" undefined aside, going by your contextual use, I would say you don't know your history very well at all. Sexual assault, including of children has been a part of war from ancient history all the way up to 2015. You're forgetting that people who do the assault and killing in wars have accepted that they and/or their leaders exist is a separate moral category and/or that the people they are harming aren't actually people and/or deserve it. So either the distinction you've made is flat out false or your classification of "normal person" is erroneous, which means the distinction is meaningless.

 

After this, you went on to describe that the way to identify somebody as homosexual is by way of their preference.

 

No, what I said was that voluntary behaviors are a choice. Why would you misrepresent what I've said in such close proximity of what I've actually said?

 

In a climate where it's VERY fashionable to conflate pedophilia with child molestation, I have repeatedly taken the position that pedophiles are not predators even though child molesters are, because preferences aren't the same as behaviors. In light of this, how have you arrived at the conclusion that "PC" is of any interest to me?

 

You're bringing a LOT of baggage to the topic. I think you're not being completely honest about what it is we're talking about. Perhaps not even with yourself. I think this would literally be a life-changing source of self-knowledge for you and I hope you'll experience enough cognitive dissonance regarding the errors I've pointed out that you will be motivated to pursue that.

My retort did not post

The short answer is this:

 

If you think that a person sexual orientation is a choice then you are wrong. facts do not bare this out.

 

If you think that all things voluntary should be acceptable then do you support the abolition of incest laws ? Should adult brothers and sisters be permitted to marry because the action is voluntary ?

 

And if you  believe that child molestation is not an act exclusively of pedophilia then you are implying that the disorder does not exist. Fashionable or not is not at play here. And the facts prove that the psychiatric disorder does exist.

[Wuzzums]

I am unsure how your first comment is a retort to my point. I never said children dreamed of being molested. Obviously that is ridiculous.

 

This is a discussion about how society views pedophilia. If you want to start a thread about something else, go ahead.

 

The victim indeed did not ask to be harmed. And I never said they did. And that statement has nothing to do with the discussion.

 

You seem to be implying that pedophilia is a vice that all people are susceptible to, like drugs.(and as a normal human being without this disorder, I take offense to this) You seem to be implying that acts of child molestation is simply a law that should not be broken and that the born disorder called pedophilia does not even exist. 

 

Pedophilia is a harmful disease like any other and we must treat it as such: quarantine.

Homosexuality is not a harmful disease and thus we must treat it as such: not be bothered by it.

 

I don't know how much more simpler I can explain it.

 

 

And you didn't answer the question of why this interest you so much. Is it because you view homosexuality  as vile as pedophilia or do you view pedophilia as innocuous as homosexuality?

[J. D. Stembal]

First off I don't think that there is tons of child molesters that aren't pedophiles. Is child molestation not an act of pedophilia ?

 

I understand that you are making the distinction between pedophiles that act on it compared to the ones that don't. But just because they didn't act on it does not make them normal. Just as a homosexual isn't a heterosexual until he commits a homosexual act.

 

I should not have said media. What I mean is, societies generally accepted perception of something. Societies generally accepted perception of pedophilia is that it is criminal or evil behavior. Just as the religious class thinks that of homosexuals. But now society says that homosexuality is normal and gays are born that way. But are pedophiles not born that way too ? Double standard no ?

 

As I can see it, is that both homosexuals and pedophiles are not normal. They are both disorders. But society says that gays are perfectly normal and pedophiles are just criminals. Thats a cop out.

 

The PC class treats pedophiles like ISIS treats gays. When they are both born that way. I just think the playing field should be leveled off a bit. A bit less praise for homosexuals and some understanding toward pedophiles. If the PC class didn't treat pedophiles like this, maybe there would be less stigma and these men would seek ways to deal with their disorder properly. But imagine some pedophile therapy place opened up. I bet it would get vandalized.

 

Have you heard of the magazine, Barely Legal? I used to have a few copies around. It's 18-20 year old models done up to look like they are still in high school and looking to lose their virginity to the old, hairy, balding guy - Yours Truly.

 

Did I act on pedophilia? No, every sexual interaction that I have initiated was legal by state statues (just to be clear). Did I fantasize about it? You bet your ass that I have, and will. Show me an older man that goes to a high school volleyball game and claims to not feel a little bit of a tingle in the crotch, and I'll show you a liar.

 

How can you prove that what you say isn't backward? Perhaps it's homosexuals and pedophiles that are the norm, and the rest of society is sick and/or mentally ill?

 

Just as a reference, I've had homosexual experiences and I'm at least 99.9% certain that I'm heterosexual, so NAHALT - not all homos/heteros are like that.

[dsayers]

Pedophilia is a harmful disease like any other and we must treat it as such: quarantine.

According to dictionary.com, the definition of disease is "a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment." The reason why categorizing pedophilia as a disease as problematic is because you'd basically be letting their abusers off the hook for traumatizing them during their formative years.

 

you can refrain from trying your hardest within the rules of this forum to make this about me. But anyway.. there you go again... You are saying that a person simply broke the law

YOU make it about you when you continuously misrepresent what was said. You reveal your bias as well as your willingness to resist anything that would interfere with your bias. I never said anything about "law." In fact, I specifically rejected in my first post the idea that the mafia's edicts are a method by which to accurately determine the truth.

 

you are basically pretending that pedophilia does not exist.

Where? When did this happen? In what way does saying "pedophilia is a preference" translate to "it doesn't exist"?

 

Do you support the abolition of incest laws ?

 

the misguided conclusions you have convinced yourself of because you are not comfortable with anything that diverts the mainstream narrative of homosexuality.

 

If you think that a person sexual orientation is a choice

More straw man.

[Flying]

Pedophilia is a harmful disease like any other and we must treat it as such: quarantine.

Homosexuality is not a harmful disease and thus we must treat it as such: not be bothered by it.

 

I don't know how much more simpler I can explain it.

 

 

And you didn't answer the question of why this interest you so much. Is it because you view homosexuality  as vile as pedophilia or do you view pedophilia as innocuous as homosexuality?

 

It is not a disease per se.  It  is a psychiatric disorder.

 

A psychiatric disorder, also called a mental illness, psychological disorder or mental disorder, is mental or behavioral pattern that causes either suffering or a poor ability to function in ordinary life. Variation in genes can play an important role in the development of mental disorders, although the reliable identification of connections between specific genes and specific categories of disorder has proven more difficult. Environmental events surrounding pregnancy and birth have also been implicated.

 

Homosexuality is also a disorder. And I am not suggesting that it is harmful just because I am saying that it is a disorder.

 

According to the American Psychiatric Association, until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness. There was little or no suggestion within the psychiatric community that homosexuality might be conceptualized as anything other than a mental illness that needed to be treated.  And, of course, homosexuality was listed as a mental illness in DSM-II.  (The DSM – Diagnostic and Statistical Manual – is the APA’s standard classification of their so-called mental disorders, and is used by many mental health workers in the USA and other countries.)

 

Then in 1970 gay activists protested against the APA convention in San Francisco.  These scenes were repeated in 1971, and as people came out of the “closet” and felt empowered politically and socially, the APA directorate became increasingly uncomfortable with their stance. What’s noteworthy about this is that the removal of homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses was not triggered by some scientific breakthrough.  There was no new fact or set of facts that stimulated this major change.  Rather, it was the simple reality that gay people started to kick up a fuss.

 

This topic interest me so much because by classifying acts of pedophilia (child molestation and rape) as simply crimes, it implies that people who have not been diagnosed with pedophilia or know themselves as pedophiles are susceptible to acts of pedophilia. When clearly they are not. When a pedophile acts on his disorder, it collides with the law. Just because it collides with the  law, does not simply classify  pedophilia as a crime or vice. It is first and foremost, a disorder.

 

The only reason I brought homosexuality into the discussion is because many in the pro gay movement say that the main reason society should afford gays the same rights as everyone else is because they were born that way and they cant help it.

[dsayers]

You're not addressing a single challenge offered, including to define your terms. I see no reason to take you seriously.

 

acts of pedophilia

The challenge was offered from the very beginning that pedophilia is not a behavior. Not only have you not addressed this, but here you are simultaneously claiming it is a disorder and a behavior. You just keep asserting that it is a disorder. How do you know? Maybe if you bothered to define what you mean by disorder, we'd be able to identify where you've gone astray.

 

Theft is the result of a lack of respect for property rights. A lack of empathy and/or a willingness to override it. You could probably argue that this could be classified as a disorder. But "disorder" in the context you're trying to assert is defined as "a disturbance in physical or mental health or functions; malady or dysfunction." Pedophilia doesn't fit.

 

Also, I'm not sure on what basis you continue to denote that it is a preference. Primarily because the only logic, reason, or evidence you've offered is that it doesn't fit your presumption that it is a disorder, which isn't logic, reason, or evidence at all. The Greek "philo" literally means love of.

 

I've reference humans' empathetic nature twice as well as pointed out that any willingness to harm another person is the result of unprocessed trauma during the formative years. You have yet to address this while continuing to assert that we're talking about something that is present at birth, just like homosexuality.

[Flying]

According to dictionary.com, the definition of disease is "a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment." The reason why categorizing pedophilia as a disease as problematic is because you'd basically be letting their abusers off the hook for traumatizing them during their formative years.

 

YOU make it about you when you continuously misrepresent what was said. You reveal your bias as well as your willingness to resist anything that would interfere with your bias. I never said anything about "law." In fact, I specifically rejected in my first post the idea that the mafia's edicts are a method by which to accurately determine the truth.

 

Where? When did this happen? In what way does saying "pedophilia is a preference" translate to "it doesn't exist"?

 

More straw man.

The reason why categorizing pedophilia as a disease

 

 There you go again. If you deny that pedophilia is a disease or disorder, and you are not offering any other explanation for it then you are denying that it exists. If you say red is not a color and you leave it at that, you are denying that red exists.

 

YOU make it about you when you continuously misrepresent what was said. You reveal your bias as well as your willingness to resist anything that would interfere with your bias. I never said anything about "law." In fact, I specifically rejected in my first post the idea that the mafia's edicts are a method by which to accurately determine the truth.

 

I asked you a question about a theory that you tabled. Your theory is that if an act is voluntary then it is acceptable. So I asked if you support the abolition of incest laws because incest at above the age of consent is voluntary. That does not mean I misrepresented what you said. And if you don't recognize civil laws then fine. Then my question simply is, do you have a problem with incest ?

 

You and other posters make it about me when you keep asking why I am talking about this. I never asked you why you are responding to the topic.

 

 

Where? When did this happen? In what way does saying "pedophilia is a preference" translate to "it doesn't exist"?

 

By positing that it is not a disease or a disorder, you are denying that the factual meaning of the word exists. Because pedophilia is not just a word to name child molestation in the same way murder is a word to name killing someone. People who rob banks do not have a direct disorder that causes them to rob banks.

 

So you truly believe that sexual orientation is a preference....You think that people just decide what to be. That is counterfactual. People get rudimentary clues as to what they are sexually as they grow up. Do you really think that 13 year old boys wake up one morning and decide to be gay ? It does not work that way. And that is why depression is prevalent in the gay community. Because they are getting different rudimentary clues as to what they are sexually then the majority are. 

 

This isn't my first forum debate. I can sense that you are just going to make this more about me and then duck out of the convo. whatever..

[Flying]

Have you heard of the magazine, Barely Legal? I used to have a few copies around. It's 18-20 year old models done up to look like they are still in high school and looking to lose their virginity to the old, hairy, balding guy - Yours Truly.

 

Did I act on pedophilia? No, every sexual interaction that I have initiated was legal by state statues (just to be clear). Did I fantasize about it? You bet your ass that I have, and will. Show me an older man that goes to a high school volleyball game and claims to not feel a little bit of a tingle in the crotch, and I'll show you a liar.

 

How can you prove that what you say isn't backward? Perhaps it's homosexuals and pedophiles that are the norm, and the rest of society is sick and/or mentally ill?

 

Just as a reference, I've had homosexual experiences and I'm at least 99.9% certain that I'm heterosexual, so NAHALT - not all homos/heteros are like that.

 

You're not addressing a single challenge offered, including to define your terms. I see no reason to take you seriously.

 

The challenge was offered from the very beginning that pedophilia is not a behavior. Not only have you not addressed this, but here you are simultaneously claiming it is a disorder and a behavior. You just keep asserting that it is a disorder. How do you know? Maybe if you bothered to define what you mean by disorder, we'd be able to identify where you've gone astray.

 

Theft is the result of a lack of respect for property rights. A lack of empathy and/or a willingness to override it. You could probably argue that this could be classified as a disorder. But "disorder" in the context you're trying to assert is defined as "a disturbance in physical or mental health or functions; malady or dysfunction." Pedophilia doesn't fit.

 

Also, I'm not sure on what basis you continue to denote that it is a preference. Primarily because the only logic, reason, or evidence you've offered is that it doesn't fit your presumption that it is a disorder, which isn't logic, reason, or evidence at all. The Greek "philo" literally means love of.

 

I've reference humans' empathetic nature twice as well as pointed out that any willingness to harm another person is the result of unprocessed trauma during the formative years. You have yet to address this while continuing to assert that we're talking about something that is present at birth, just like homosexuality.

 

It's 18-20 year old models done up to look like they are still in high school and looking to lose their virginity to the old, hairy, balding guy - Yours Truly.

 

Did I act on pedophilia? No, every sexual interaction that I have initiated was legal by state statues (just to be clear). Did I fantasize about it? You bet your ass that I have, and will.

 

Heterosexual men have a preference for young. Because young means that they most likely have not already bared children. And  there is a time limit on when women will stay fertile. This is why women have higher voices then men. Because it is a sign of youth and fertility. 

 

Now when you were checking these women out in the magazine , I bet you concentrated on the one with the biggest ass and the biggest breasts. You still concentrated on the fertile features. And girls who made the magazine, most likely did so because of their fertile features. There is a point where age and fertile features meet. If young means a lot to you , then you probably like this magazine. That is not pedophilia.  Pedophiles are attracted to the absents of fertile features.

 

Perhaps it's homosexuals and pedophiles that are the norm, and the rest of society is sick and/or mentally ill?

 

Homosexuality was considered, until 1974, a metal disorder. Pedophilia is still on the books as a mental disorder (thank goodness). So no. What you are saying is counterfactual.

 

Just as a reference, I've had homosexual experiences and I'm at least 99.9% certain that I'm heterosexual,

 

Yes. That has been covered in this thread. Men who think its a choice have tried to be gay and it just doesn't work. They just resort back to the rudimentary clues that they got as they grew up. Your choice to try it was political. Not biological.

[Flying]

You're not addressing a single challenge offered, including to define your terms. I see no reason to take you seriously.

 

The challenge was offered from the very beginning that pedophilia is not a behavior. Not only have you not addressed this, but here you are simultaneously claiming it is a disorder and a behavior. You just keep asserting that it is a disorder. How do you know? Maybe if you bothered to define what you mean by disorder, we'd be able to identify where you've gone astray.

 

Theft is the result of a lack of respect for property rights. A lack of empathy and/or a willingness to override it. You could probably argue that this could be classified as a disorder. But "disorder" in the context you're trying to assert is defined as "a disturbance in physical or mental health or functions; malady or dysfunction." Pedophilia doesn't fit.

 

Also, I'm not sure on what basis you continue to denote that it is a preference. Primarily because the only logic, reason, or evidence you've offered is that it doesn't fit your presumption that it is a disorder, which isn't logic, reason, or evidence at all. The Greek "philo" literally means love of.

 

I've reference humans' empathetic nature twice as well as pointed out that any willingness to harm another person is the result of unprocessed trauma during the formative years. You have yet to address this while continuing to assert that we're talking about something that is present at birth, just like homosexuality.

Lol.. where I have gone astray eh..

 

Pedophilia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

 

Pedophilia or pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger.As a medical diagnosis specific criteria for the disorder extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13. A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years of age, but adolescents must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilia.

 

 

I see where you have gone astray. Your compassionate side is conflicted with the fact that there is people out there with a disorder that if acted on, denotes a serious crime and violation. So instead of taking that head on, you convince yourself that all sexual orientations are choices. Heterosexuality, homosexuality ect. You then posit that anyone who makes the choice to be sexually attracted to prepubescents is an evil criminal bastard because molesting children is  against the law and or against moral law. But anyone who chooses hetero or homosexuality is cool because it isn't against the law. 

 

But your reasoning falls on its face when the facts bare out that sexual orientations are not choices.

[dsayers]

you convince yourself that all sexual orientations are choices

You keep making this claim regardless of what takes place around you.

[Flying]

You keep making this claim regardless of what takes place around you.

Are you now saying that sexual orientations are not choices ? or are not "voluntary behaviors" ? (to use your terminology)

when i was a child a wanted to kiss a particular boy in my school, because i liked him a lot. That was my dream. Never heard of children dreaming of being molested. I think for me it would have been one of the biggest terrors that could happen.  

 

moreover, start concentrating on the victims instead of perpetrators. Who is more important: the one who harms, or the one who gets harmed. The victim didnt ask to be harmed, but the perpetrator has more chances to stop harm and not to do it.

You had a rudimentary sense of what your sexual orientation was. You did not just wake up one morning at that age and decide to be heterosexual right ?

[dsayers]

Are you now saying that sexual orientations are not choices ? or are not "voluntary behaviors" ? (to use your terminology)

What does it matter what I say? You're just going to read whatever you want anyways. This doesn't define any terms, answer any challenges, or acknowledge that you continue to put words into my mouth.

 

I never said that sexual orientations were choices. I don't get the last bit here though. A sexual orientation isn't a behavior. Do you know what a behavior is? You've consistently conflated it with non-behaviors.

[Flying]

What does it matter what I say? You're just going to read whatever you want anyways. This doesn't define any terms, answer any challenges, or acknowledge that you continue to put words into my mouth.

 

I never said that sexual orientations were choices. I don't get the last bit here though. A sexual orientation isn't a behavior. Do you know what a behavior is? You've consistently conflated it with non-behaviors.

From the start you have said: :

Pedophilia is a preference

 

 

I referenced a preference they possess.

homosexuality refers to a preference

 

And I'll stop there even though there is more.

pref·er·ence

From the Free dictionary

a. The selecting of someone or something over another or others: has a decided preference for travel by train.

b. The right or chance to make a choice: The program offers you the preference to use the mouse or function keys.

[Wuzzums]

It is not a disease per se.  It  is a psychiatric disorder.

 

A psychiatric disorder, also called a mental illness, psychological disorder or mental disorder, is mental or behavioral pattern that causes either suffering or a poor ability to function in ordinary life. Variation in genes can play an important role in the development of mental disorders, although the reliable identification of connections between specific genes and specific categories of disorder has proven more difficult. Environmental events surrounding pregnancy and birth have also been implicated.

 

Homosexuality is also a disorder. And I am not suggesting that it is harmful just because I am saying that it is a disorder.

 

According to the American Psychiatric Association, until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness. There was little or no suggestion within the psychiatric community that homosexuality might be conceptualized as anything other than a mental illness that needed to be treated.  And, of course, homosexuality was listed as a mental illness in DSM-II.  (The DSM – Diagnostic and Statistical Manual – is the APA’s standard classification of their so-called mental disorders, and is used by many mental health workers in the USA and other countries.)

 

Then in 1970 gay activists protested against the APA convention in San Francisco.  These scenes were repeated in 1971, and as people came out of the “closet” and felt empowered politically and socially, the APA directorate became increasingly uncomfortable with their stance. What’s noteworthy about this is that the removal of homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses was not triggered by some scientific breakthrough.  There was no new fact or set of facts that stimulated this major change.  Rather, it was the simple reality that gay people started to kick up a fuss.

 

This topic interest me so much because by classifying acts of pedophilia (child molestation and rape) as simply crimes, it implies that people who have not been diagnosed with pedophilia or know themselves as pedophiles are susceptible to acts of pedophilia. When clearly they are not. When a pedophile acts on his disorder, it collides with the law. Just because it collides with the  law, does not simply classify  pedophilia as a crime or vice. It is first and foremost, a disorder.

 

The only reason I brought homosexuality into the discussion is because many in the pro gay movement say that the main reason society should afford gays the same rights as everyone else is because they were born that way and they cant help it.

You're obfuscating terms.

Nobody said pedophilia is a crime. Child molestation however is. The people most susceptible to child molestation are pedophiles therefore there's a pretty good chance a pedophile is also a criminal. How is this not getting through?

 

Ever time we explain how pedos are dangerous because they commit crimes you go on the defense explaining how not all pedophiles are like that. You're making the same classic SJW argument over and over again.

 

For their sake I hope you'll never have any children, or be around any children for that matter.

[dsayers]

@Flying: Another fine example or your bias tainting the "discussion." Whether or not somebody chooses to be a homosexual has no bearing of the fact that because they're homosexual, they would choose somebody of their gender. This still doesn't make orientation a behavior or answer whether you know what a behavior is.

 

BTW, there are still many other occurrences of you putting words into my mouth that you have yet to account for. I too wash my hands of you due to your lack of integrity.

[J. D. Stembal]

Heterosexual men have a preference for young. Because young means that they most likely have not already bared children. And  there is a time limit on when women will stay fertile. This is why women have higher voices then men. Because it is a sign of youth and fertility. 

 

Now when you were checking these women out in the magazine , I bet you concentrated on the one with the biggest ass and the biggest breasts. You still concentrated on the fertile features. And girls who made the magazine, most likely did so because of their fertile features. There is a point where age and fertile features meet. If young means a lot to you , then you probably like this magazine. That is not pedophilia.  Pedophiles are attracted to the absents of fertile features.

 

Homosexuality was considered, until 1974, a metal disorder. Pedophilia is still on the books as a mental disorder (thank goodness). So no. What you are saying is counterfactual.

 

Yes. That has been covered in this thread. Men who think its a choice have tried to be gay and it just doesn't work. They just resort back to the rudimentary clues that they got as they grew up. Your choice to try it was political. Not biological.

 

My choice to have homosexual sex was political? What does that mean? How do you know why I chose to do that?

 

Modern psychiatry also prescribes dangerous drugs to treat the disorders that they identify, so I do not give much credence to their diagnostic capabilities.

 

By the logic you presented, if I take risque pictures of high school and middle school students, it's not pedophilia as long as they have large breasts and posteriors? What measurements and cup sizes are the cut off? I know some men that prefer small breasts and small rear ends, regardless of the age. Does that make them pedophiles, as well? What is the criteria for identifying a female pedophile? Is focusing on the muscular jocks not pedophilia because they appear to look like full grown men?

[Flying]

You're obfuscating terms.

Nobody said pedophilia is a crime. Child molestation however is. The people most susceptible to child molestation are pedophiles therefore there's a pretty good chance a pedophile is also a criminal. How is this not getting through?

 

The people most susceptible to child molestation are pedophiles

 

The people who molest children are by definition, pedophiles. It wouldn't necessarily be proper to say that the people most susceptible to penis and vaginal sex are heterosexuals. Because people who continually partake in penis/vaginal sex are by definition, heterosexual.

 

therefore there's a pretty good chance a pedophile is also a criminal.

 

You are saying if someone who is born a pedophile, but has not acted on it,  is a criminal. Now do you see where calling pedophilia first and foremost a crime is not proper ? It is first and foremost a disorder.

 

And since people like you have all this empathy for gays, because it is a reality (officially a disorder until 1974) that some people are born with, then where is your empathy for people who have this other disorder called pedophilia ? "Ohhh oh pedophilia is simply a crime so people born with it are born criminals..."-you

 

Ever time we explain how pedos are dangerous because they commit crimes you go on the defense explaining how not all pedophiles are like that. You're making the same classic SJW argument over and over again.

 

For their sake I hope you'll never have any children, or be around any children for that matter.

 

 

You were the one showering all this empathy over gays and claiming it doesn't hurt anyone so nobody should be bothered by it. Studies show that most pedophiles are gay. Even the ones who go for prepubescent girls. Because girls that age have no reproductive features. And both gays and pedophiles share this attraction to lack of reproductive features. So since you are so empathetic toward gays, I certainly hope you never have any children, or be around any children for that matter.

 

 

You went there first..

[dsayers]

Studies show that most pedophiles are gay.

Typo?

 

Sexual assault is more about wrath, vengeance, and control than sex.

This is what studies of SEX OFFENDERS reveals. A person's orientation, preferences, and willingness to aggress others are all separate, unrelated characteristics.

[Wuzzums]

You are saying if someone who is born a pedophile, but has not acted on it,  is a criminal.

 

I never said such a thing, in fact I have stated the exact opposite. You might be arguing with some alternate version of me that did, which will explain why you're so confused.

 

You were the one showering all this empathy over gays and claiming it doesn't hurt anyone so nobody should be bothered by it. Studies show that most pedophiles are gay. Even the ones who go for prepubescent girls. Because girls that age have no reproductive features. And both gays and pedophiles share this attraction to lack of reproductive features. So since you are so empathetic toward gays, I certainly hope you never have any children, or be around any children for that matter.

 

 

You went there first..

 

Are you seriously trying to shame me for holding back empathy towards people that wanna fuck children?

 

A little bit of work and your posts could make the basis of a killer stand-up routine.

[Flying]

I never said such a thing, in fact I have stated the exact opposite. You might be arguing with some alternate version of me that did, which will explain why you're so confused.

 

 

Are you seriously trying to shame me for holding back empathy towards people that wanna fuck children?

 

A little bit of work and your posts could make the basis of a killer stand-up routine.

I never said such a thing,

 

You said:

a pretty good chance a pedophile is also a criminal

 

 

Now you are recanting that ?

 

Typo?

 

This is what studies of SEX OFFENDERS reveals. A person's orientation, preferences, and willingness to aggress others are all separate, unrelated characteristics.

 

 

Report: Pedophilia more common among 'gays'

Apr 29, 2002 - Child molestation and pedophilia occur far more commonly among homosexuals .... “Most of my evidence comes right from the gay community.