Single mothers for controlling the national debt!

[Mothra]

I am curious if there are any other single mothers among us, and if so, how it has been to confront certain things about yourself that either conform or don't conform to the stereoype of single moms. I feel like we need a new acronym... NASMALT.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

The point of talking about single mothers generally is to combat the notion that is commonplace in society that they are victims, often portrayed as righteous and heroic, for procreating irresponsibly and raising their children in environments which produce anti-social behavior, violence, addiction, betrayal, and even more single mothers at a rate unparalleled by others who chose to procreate more responsibly. It is to give children raised in single mother homes the dignity to know who made the mistakes that ended without there being a consistently present father in their childhood, and all the detriment and heartbreak that causes. And it is to recognize men and more responsible procreating members of society as a whole are at the point of a gun to support the irresponsible sexual practices of single mothers, who are becoming a larger and larger invisible parasite on society.

 

All single moms are "like that" in that they made a significant mistake about who to procreate with. Some take ownership for their mistakes Im sure, but most do not take responsibility and pretend they are victims of unforeseeable circumstance, and they get a pass by society for it. To create a new acronym that says "Hey Im not a completely shitty person who takes no accountability for my actions" kinda contradicts the point of talking about the general reality of single mothers in the first place. If you don't fit every category, or even many, that single mothers fall into, then at least recognize when we're talking about the damage single mothers are having on society we may not necessarily be talking about you. I think the fact that you are on this site alone is significant proof you do not fit the category of the general single mother - I don't need an acronym to figure this out, and creating one would come at the cost of diluting the important message about the general reality of single mothers that the statistical picture paints, which society as a whole is unaware of or unable to talk about honestly at the present moment.

 

I don't know how serious you were about the acronym idea, but I thought it was worth it to be a reminder of why it is important to talk about single mothers generally, and why this doesn't necessarily mean all single mothers fit the generalization.

[dsayers]

A generality isn't meant to be representative of every last item in the set. Unless it's 100%, a statistic isn't meant to represent every item in a set.

 

There's a big difference between a stay at home mother of infants whose husband gets T-boned on the way home from work and is killed instantly that somebody who whores around without a second thought because hey, free shit!

 

People respond to incentives, single mothers are people, governments provide incentives to single mothers, including by way of programs that are named in a way to indicate that adult males are ineligible. It's not really a question.

[Kevin Beal]

There are several that I'm aware of – some very honorable people AFAIK. It would be very interesting to hear theirs and your perspective on confronting the reality of single motherhood, the increased stress, the reduced quality time, diminished authority (sometimes), alienation of affection issues, fewer resources, etc.

 

My own single mother was very happy to receive government handouts, and she was actually happy not to be on the hook for having authority in the relationship because she would be responsible for maintaining it, which she was too tired to do after working 3 jobs. She wasn't too keen on spending time with us anyway so the reduced quality time wasn't too bad, and the alienation of affection stuff didn't seem to bother her since she had much more control over the narrative (as compared to my father).

 

It would be a source of great pleasure to break the associations I have with single mothers by hearing about more responsible ways that single mothers handle these types of issues.

 

Hopefully the just indignation expressed by our friends here on the boards doesn't intimidate. Learning ways of dealing with the problems surrounding single motherhood after the fact is of great value, and if you (or others) have perspectives which could help, it would be a shame if you did not share them. (There are lots of people reading this with all different backgrounds and problems they face that you could potentially help).

[J. D. Stembal]

I find the topic of single mothers fascinating because, if I want to date women my own age, I have to contend with women who have already worked through their starter husband. It follows that they probably have children as well. There are not that many women who stay single and childless this late in life (see baby rabies), and you have to at least acknowledge their motivations for doing so.

 

It will be difficult to get them to open up in this forum, however, because of the general zeitgeist surrounding them in the philosophy community.

[J. D. Stembal]

The point of talking about single mothers generally is to combat the notion that is commonplace in society that they are victims, often portrayed as righteous and heroic, for procreating irresponsibly and raising their children in environments which produce anti-social behavior, violence, addiction, betrayal, and even more single mothers at a rate unparalleled by others who chose to procreate more responsibly. It is to give children raised in single mother homes the dignity to know who made the mistakes that ended without there being a consistently present father in their childhood, and all the detriment and heartbreak that causes. And it is to recognize men and more responsible procreating members of society as a whole are at the point of a gun to support the irresponsible sexual practices of single mothers, who are becoming a larger and larger invisible parasite on society.

 

All single moms are "like that" in that they made a significant mistake about who to procreate with. Some take ownership for their mistakes Im sure, but most do not take responsibility and pretend they are victims of unforeseeable circumstance, and they get a pass by society for it. To create a new acronym that says "Hey Im not a completely shitty person who takes no accountability for my actions" kinda contradicts the point of talking about the general reality of single mothers in the first place. If you don't fit every category, or even many, that single mothers fall into, then at least recognize when we're talking about the damage single mothers are having on society we may not necessarily be talking about you. I think the fact that you are on this site alone is significant proof you do not fit the category of the general single mother - I don't need an acronym to figure this out, and creating one would come at the cost of diluting the important message about the general reality of single mothers that the statistical picture paints, which society as a whole is unaware of or unable to talk about honestly at the present moment.

 

I don't know how serious you were about the acronym idea, but I thought it was worth it to be a reminder of why it is important to talk about single mothers generally, and why this doesn't necessarily mean all single mothers fit the generalization.

 

As an aside, I've been very active and vocal in the intactivt community on Facebook, and I've noticed a few reoccurring themes. There are a lot of single mothers playing the activist role in opposing MGM, and thus, a lot of socialist Bernie Sanders supporters among them.

 

Every once in a while, I see what's called a Regret Mom posting about how she's dedicated to stomping out ignorance online because she, too, was once ignorant of the violence committed against children. These are some of the most rabid anti-circ activists around, and they hound cutters like a gang of wolves. I have to call into question the truthfulness behind pleading ignorance, especially in this case. People know that genital mutilation is wrong, but they will overlook the wrongness as long as an authority figure in a white coat tells them it is okay to do so. See the Milgrim experiments.

 

Likewise, we have to be highly suspicious of single mothers also saying that they didn't know any better than to get pregnant with scummy fathers. Barring mental retardation, they knew what they were doing, and they knew the risks. The NASMALT will know exactly why she is raising the children of an absent, neglectful or abusive father, and she will be able to clearly articulate it. If she blames the father for her predicament, you know that she's fogging.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

There are several that I'm aware of – some very honorable people AFAIK. It would be very interesting to hear theirs and your perspective on confronting the reality of single motherhood, the increased stress, the reduced quality time, diminished authority (sometimes), alienation of affection issues, fewer resources, etc.

 

My own single mother was very happy to receive government handouts, and she was actually happy not to be on the hook for having authority in the relationship because she would be responsible for maintaining it, which she was too tired to do after working 3 jobs. She wasn't too keen on spending time with us anyway so the reduced quality time wasn't too bad, and the alienation of affection stuff didn't seem to bother her since she had much more control over the narrative (as compared to my father).

 

It would be a source of great pleasure to break the associations I have with single mothers by hearing about more responsible ways that single mothers handle these types of issues.

 

Hopefully the just indignation expressed by our friends here on the boards doesn't intimidate. Learning ways of dealing with the problems surrounding single motherhood after the fact is of great value, and if you (or others) have perspectives which could help, it would be a shame if you did not share them. (There are lots of people reading this with all different backgrounds and problems they face that you could potentially help).

 

Kevin, you made really great points here that I didn't consider when writing my post.

 

I think I could have been more empathetic in this thread towards the goals of the single mothers on this board in sharing their unique experiences and how they handle the significant difficulty of raising a child as a single parent. I agree it would be a shame, Mothra, if you found my post intimidating, so I wanted to express an apology for not being more curious to your goals with regards to creating an acronym, but just as importantly, towards the other goals Kevin mentioned that this thread could be useful for. I am certainly not a single mom, but I have been raised around many. I think I carried over the distaste from my general experiences to this thread (but also acknowledging that there is significant importance to talking about single moms generally), and I want to make sure that I do not personalize your posts, which is certainly possible. 

 

I think I could also have been more empathetic towards myself, as I think it would be a great experience to read about the single moms on this board. I hope you understand the point in my first post, but I also want to be honest that I could have been a more empathetic communicator and listener, and that if my post was written in a way which was intimidating, I am sorry for that and would like to be honest that any personalization I have towards this topic is not a result of you or a reflection of your particular character, but from my personal experiences with trauma from single mothers and how society at large handles it.

[Mothra]

No. I wasn't that serious about the acronym. You all raise valid points.

I admit that the reason I am a single mom was that I was irresponsible in choosing who to sleep with and not using protection.

 

I also recognize that it was selfish for me to keep my daughter and not give her up for adoption. I think the reason I did this was I needed some motivation to get my life on track. I was in a pretty bad place when I got pregnant. My mom recommended I get an abortion, but I just could not do that. Even though I had been pro-choice up to that point.

 

Basically her father and I partied together and when I got pregnant I cleaned up my act. He did not. So I've been a single mom for the duration of her life. We moved in with my mom so I did have help, although it wasn't from a Dad.

 

We've since moved out, so life is indeed hectic and we don't get as much quality time as we would if there were a father around. I've apologized to her for this and many other things in hopes that she will learn from my mistakes.

 

Her Dad had been married before and I witnessed the he'll he was put through in the child support system, and how the govt siphoned off any money that could have gone to the children. It is such a corrupt system it makes me sick. I do not enforce child support and do not receive any. I also do not receive any govt assistance, although I admit that I did for a short while when I first had my daughter. This is obviously not something I am proud of.

 

I also witnessed the perverse incentives in the system when I went back to school and learned that the govt will pay for daycare if you go for a certificate, but if you try for a degree they do not.

 

These things and others were like puzzle pieces falling into place in my journey to realize I was a libertarian/anarchist.

 

I guess I was just curious about other peoples' journies. And what mistakes they've made, what they've observed along the way... Stuff like that.

 

I'm just wondering if there are any closet single moms out there I can relate to! I meet other single moms on occasion and they are horrible and deluded!

[Mothra]

Hi Mothra. I'm a single mom too. But I agree with Matthew M. Take what you want, then pay for it. In this case, our children are paying for it, and our "fair share" of that debt is to forever hold that responsibility for setting them up in this situation. It's still not enough to compensate for the unneeded pain in their lives. The best we can do (I think) is raise them aware of the mistakes we made, empowered not to perpetuate the cycle, and hopefully educate others to do the same.

 

Mellomama, thanks for responding! I'd love to know more about how you came to this movement and hear about how you handle struggles and issues that come up with your kid(s). What have been some of the biggest hurdles for you?

[Kevin Beal]

Very interesting discussion

 

I think I could have been more empathetic in this thread towards the goals of the single mothers on this board in sharing their unique experiences and how they handle the significant difficulty of raising a child as a single parent.

Maybe so, but you did demonstrate the empathy you feel for the people who are made to subsidize other people's poor choices. It would be unreasonable to expect you to show empathy for everyone involved simultaneously, and it is indeed an important consideration to be made going forward with the discussion, especially given the title of the thread (being about the national debt) and because there is a considerable amount of propaganda surrounding the responsibility single mothers can have in important social issues.

 

We can be safely assured that Mothra is interested in taking responsibility, being interested in a show primarily about integrity and philosophy, and because she is demonstrating a knowledge of the effect single motherhood has on the national debt (and everything she's written after), but as you rightly point out, it's an issue that requires many considerations to be made and if she were suggesting (albeit in jest) that there ought to be an acronym for single mothers who are not like that, then it seems to me to be entirely worthwhile to make sure the conversation is grounded in reality – this being a philosophy board.

 

I appreciated your post and I up-voted it.

[dsayers]

I won't ever be "done" with it. And that's okay.

How do you know? Not saying you're wrong. I had this conclusion inflicted upon me, by my chief abuser no less, to keep me perpetually in the "broken" and dependent pile.

 

Our (my sister and me) parents used us as pawns to get at each other too. Sorry to hear your ex is being that way. I also admire the courage it takes to accept your role in choosing him, as well as what led to being able to make that decision. It sounds like you're trying to do what's best for your kids at this point.

[Mothra]

I was introduced to FDR by my ex-boyfriend--my second since separating from my now-ex-husband. How do I handle struggles and issues that come up with my kids: 

• Somatic Experiencing (SE) therapy for myself
• counseling for the kids
• How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
• I Love You Rituals
• Consulting with FDR and other peaceful parenting friends
• Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate!

The biggest hurdle for me has been the custody battle with my ex, and his campaign to alienate my kids from me. This has required me to really dig deep and understand how I have caused this whole mess, and WHY. What in my childhood led me down this path? This hurdle will never be completely surmounted. It requires a constant, sustained effort to keep us moving forward, and I won't ever be "done" with it. And that's okay.

 

Ugh, I'm so sorry you're going through that. I witnessed my parents go through a nasty custody battle over my brother. Luckily I was old enough when they got divorced that I was able to just pick my mom.

 

I'm starting therapy too... again. I haven't had much luck in the past finding good therapists. Hopefully this time will be fruitful and I will get some clarity over what led me down this path as well.

 

 

Very interesting discussion

 

Maybe so, but you did demonstrate the empathy you feel for the people who are made to subsidize other people's poor choices. It would be unreasonable to expect you to show empathy for everyone involved simultaneously, and it is indeed an important consideration to be made going forward with the discussion, especially given the title of the thread (being about the national debt) and because there is a considerable amount of propaganda surrounding the responsibility single mothers can have in important social issues.

 

We can be safely assured that Mothra is interested in taking responsibility, being interested in a show primarily about integrity and philosophy, and because she is demonstrating a knowledge of the effect single motherhood has on the national debt (and everything she's written after), but as you rightly point out, it's an issue that requires many considerations to be made and if she were suggesting (albeit in jest) that there ought to be an acronym for single mothers who are not like that, then it seems to me to be entirely worthwhile to make sure the conversation is grounded in reality – this being a philosophy board.

 

I appreciated your post and I up-voted it.

 

Stef mentioned "Single moms for controlling the national debt" as a joke during the conversation with Bill Whittle (ep 3120). I remember thinking "I would be in that club! I wonder if anyone else would."

 

It's interesting. Sometimes I find myself talking to people and it comes up that I am a single mom. It's like they've been trained to clap their hands and go "bravo"... and I have to try and get them to stop. I was complaining to a male friend post-breakup that I'll probably never find another relationship, since what good man would even want to be with a single mom. He immediately told me to stop talking like that and that he has a lot of  respect for single moms since he was raised by one. Trying to get him to see my responsibilitiy in the matter was like telling him he had a crappy mother. It's a weird situation to be in.

[Very Ape]

Mothra I think you've demonstrated a lot of courage. I am the proud father of an 8 month old and my wife and I are having difficulties. I am not willing to say much more than that but relationships are complicated and many couples don't understand each other well even after marriage under ostensibly pure intentions.

 

I do understand about single mothers who've made really bad choices but with my wife, should we choose to separate, I can't say she's been anything but a great mom. I think the bigger issues is society is in "man-blame" mode and it's clear the Femi-Marxists are behind it having taken over the media. It rots away the foundation of many good relationships where the man is working (I work full time) and yet he is somehow expected to the equivalent of a housewife too - it's like reverse payback for the 50s and it's leading to higher divorce rates. That's my two cents.

 

Single motherhood is a complex issues and it bothers me greatly when society automatically assumes innocence of the mother and absence of the father but I think we should be careful to assume too much about the mothers being welfare queens or having poor taste in men (id like to think my wife had good taste in men since she married me but of course I am biased).

 

Please also understand - everyone here really - when I turned "libertarian/anarchist" it was part way through our marriage and my wife couldn't relate. I felt like Richard Dreyfuss in Close Encounters where his wife just thinks he's lost his mind. Statists have no concept of what anarchy really means and my wife is a "true believer" in Government.

 

The world is being split in two on these issues and I think we in the Anarchist community really need to support each other first and foremost. Even those who have made mistakes. But you know Mothra your child is not a mistake if you have stuck around and refused to give her over to the State. You should feel proud. I am fighting on the vaccine front keeping my son from getting over vaccinated (it's been really crazy) and no MMR until I am satisfied it is safe (I am not at the moment). I am not here to argue about that btw - do what you think is right with your kids. Kids are precious, so precious and I see parents who don't give a shit and teach their kids all kinds of horrible values - we are also breeding R's and eliminating K's as Stephan says.

 

If you can find yourself a good man even at this phase of your life and be honest with him about past mistakes it will be worth it. Be patient but keep looking.

[Kevin Beal]

It's interesting. Sometimes I find myself talking to people and it comes up that I am a single mom. It's like they've been trained to clap their hands and go "bravo"... and I have to try and get them to stop. I was complaining to a male friend post-breakup that I'll probably never find another relationship, since what good man would even want to be with a single mom. He immediately told me to stop talking like that and that he has a lot of  respect for single moms since he was raised by one. Trying to get him to see my responsibilitiy in the matter was like telling him he had a crappy mother. It's a weird situation to be in.

Right. It's kinda darkly funny how awkward that is to be in the situation of bringing truths that implicate people's parents.

 

And I really respect the maturity in accepting the poor choices you've made. I've made some too that might shock some, so I am not without sin either.

 

If my mother had admitted to these kinds of mistakes I think it would have meant a lot to me. Living with the consequences of poor decisions is bad, obviously, but it's made just so much worse when people aren't simply honest about it. Personally, making mistakes doesn't really bother me so much as the way most people seem to respond when it's pointed out. That's what really drives me crazy.

 

I find myself in the position of wanting to make up stories about why I did whatever I did because I fear that it will mean that I shouldn't be trusted with making decisions in the future, or that it will mean X, Y and Z shameful things about me and so I do my magician tricks and distract people away from the truth. But I really don't think that the implications in my head really are true, like I shouldn't be trusted with making decisions or that it means I'm a bad guy or whatever. So, I can sympathize with people not wanting to be honest, but it's so often anti-philosophical to pretend to know those things up front without really exploring it (at least in my case).

 

And I think that people can tell on some level when I'm not being honest, so it's not like I'm really achieving anything. Some amount of trust is still lost. So, I guess all of that is to say that I think honestly really is the best policy. When people are honest about mistakes they've made, those are some of the most respectable moments in relationships, I think.

[dsayers]

It's like they've been trained to clap their hands and go "bravo"... and I have to try and get them to stop. I was complaining to a male friend post-breakup that I'll probably never find another relationship, since what good man would even want to be with a single mom. He immediately told me to stop talking like that and that he has a lot of  respect for single moms since he was raised by one. Trying to get him to see my responsibilitiy in the matter was like telling him he had a crappy mother. It's a weird situation to be in.

I admire your clarity! The worst part is that most people would guard such things, forever obfuscating WHY they reject reason. I can't share Stef's Bomb in the Brain series enough. I think it's WAY more important WHY people believe the things they do than what it is they actually believe. Having been abused myself, just the level of how much I didn't know that I didn't know is incomprehensible in hindsight. People get very defensive in reaction to anything they think might cast doubt on their self-perceived infallibility. Strangely enough, I think the single greatest freeing move in my own journey was just hearing humans' capacity for error explained in an objective, impersonal fashion. I guess that's also why I can't share Stef's Introduction to Philosophy series enough either.

[brucethecollie]

I have two nieces.  Both have had single moms most of their life and lots of drama.  They say they don't trust their parents because their parents don't apologize or admit to any wrong and mostly because they break their word and don't follow through with actions.  I'm with the others stating that honesty is the best policy.  All I've ever wanted from my parents was an apology and actions to confirm that.  Many of us have made mistakes-just different ones from that of single moms.  I find it very admirable that those of you here are talking so openly about your experience and working so hard to do things better.  Kids will learn that it's never too late to turn around and change course if it's the right thing and to be humble and honest and value truth.  

 

I'm not a single mom but I've explained to my kids that some of the choices their father and I made before they were born were not the wisest and as a result, we are pretty tight, financially.  They seem to appreciate that honesty and they also never do what I did to my parents as a kid-complain that we didn't have enough money.  Instead, they want to know how people make money and start businesses, they support our efforts to save, and I've heard them vow that when they are parents, they will make enough to take their kids to the beach and other fun places.  Years ago that would have made me sad but now I find it inspiring and motivating to show them we are doing our best in the present moment.  I don't sit around beating myself up because they want a happy mom so I try to keep my goals constantly in mind but let go of the guilt.

[Des]

I am the proud father of an 8 month old and my wife and I are having difficulties. I am not willing to say much more than that but relationships are complicated and many couples don't understand each other well even after marriage under ostensibly pure intentions.

 

I do understand about single mothers who've made really bad choices but with my wife, should we choose to separate,

Hi

 

As one who has made really bad choices and let go of a wife ...

 

Think about calling Stef before you decide, especially if you can persuade her that Stef would help each of you enjoy the family experience more than you do now, and get her on the call.

 

I heard Stef before, advising a caller to pay more attention to keeping the family on board, even if it meant the caller quit telling his wife's relatives what he understands about government (which they show no sign of understanding).

[Des]

I am the proud father of an 8 month old and my wife and I are having difficulties. I am not willing to say much more than that but relationships are complicated and many couples don't understand each other well even after marriage under ostensibly pure intentions.

 

I do understand about single mothers who've made really bad choices but with my wife, should we choose to separate,

Hi

 

As one who has made really bad choices and let go of a wife ...

 

Think about calling Stef before you decide, especially if you can persuade her that Stef would help each of you enjoy the family experience more than you do now, and get her on the call.

 

I heard Stef before, asking a caller if he really was susceptible to reason and evidence, in repeatedly telling his wife's relatives what he understands about government (which they show no sign of understanding). My hazy memory of that call has Stef asking the caller to weigh up how much he wants a great relationship with the children, versus how much he wants spend time failing to convince people.

 

I now have a delightful girlfriend, and I spend no time at all telling her there is no god / are no gods, because I wouldn't know how to convince her.

 

My current self would probably teach my former self from 20 years ago, how to keep a statist christian wife and have fun holding on to her.

[My situation then is not your situation now, and my remark is about me, me, with adult children who are strangers to me, on the other side of the planet (not that I am sad for me {I'm having fun}, just that I could have made their childhoods so much more fun for them)].