Matt D Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 The neighbor in the townhouse next to mine has been abusing her 5 year old boy. I hear screaming and high-pitched noises followed by harsh reprimanding by the mother just about every day. I've witnessed her threaten to beat the child as she wrestled him out of the car seat. I believe she is a single mother because I never see the father present. So far I've tried calling CPS. After waiting half an hour on hold I finally talked to someone who told me unconvincingly that people would come to check on the child. I could call back but I'm doubtful the authorities will actually intervene. I haven't said a word to the woman yet, I'm afraid of what I might do given how angry I feel about the situation. I think it would be good for the child to see that someone cares, but is there an effective way to do that? I know I want to do something, if only for my own sanity. I want to get advice from you guys in the community who have faced similar dilemmas.
dsayers Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 If you should happen to witness something like this, you can intervene to provide a contrary example for the child. If this is happening right next door, regularly, record it and call the police. Not CPS. They can refer it to CPS. The child needs something more immediate. While it's very difficult advice to give, it might even be better for the child if you can make multiple recordings. Establish the frequency and severity. THEN call the police. Make copies for them. Make copies and take it to the local prosecuting attorney. Make copies and present them to CPS. Attend the next city council meeting and provide them with a copy if the police won't do anything. Send copies to the mayor's office. Let each entity know that you're alerting the other entities, which will motivate them to take action to save face even if they wouldn't have otherwise. 3
J. D. Stembal Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 I've struggled with my conscience over reporting a neighbor to Child Protective Services.I'm not sure that single mother who lived upstairs physically strikes her daughter, but the girl is suffering from abandonment symptoms. She screams and cries at all hours and is largely ignored or "cooed" into stopping. I frequently hear her cry, "I want my daddy!" through the ceiling. Part of me is relieved as the single mother is engaged to another man, and she recently moved out to live with him. She may have gotten back together with the father, but I doubt it. However, she quite frequently comes back to leave her girl with her parents so she can have a night out or an evening alone. Can you call CPS to report bad parenting, or does it have to be physical violence?
A4E Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Perhaps I would go knock on the door until she opens, say "I hear that your child is in pain", and ask her if she needs help becoming a good person and have a good relationship with her child, if she says yes, then follow up with all the good stuff because she has agreed to letting you help her become a better person. If she says no, or a variant thereof, like, "I am a decent person already, but my child just needs to respect me", or denies that anything is going on, tell her "abusing another person is wrong in every situation" and let her know that you will follow up with something like Dsayers post, so that she knows that her actions can have consequences. Just like her actions would possibly have consequences in public. If she says something like no, and you in the end get no response from police or anything like that, then you could try to rally all the neighbors that you know are sure to hear the abuse, and find a solution that way. That would also add the benefit of not standing alone against her, and in the process conveying to you neighbors that abuse is not acceptable.
Kurtis Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 A question that comes to my mind: "What is best for the child?" Is going into state custody the only or best alternative to their current situation? I don't have an answer, just wondering what options there are for situations like these. A while back I listened to this 3 part series from School Sucks podcast titled "Children of the State". I'll have to have a re-listen to see if there were alternative solutions provided. All I remember taking away from the shows was how harmful state "protection" is for children. (not a new idea to anyone here) http://schoolsucksproject.com/category/podcast/children-of-the-state/ If the child's life is in danger (which is always a potential when physical abuse is present) then some form of extreme intervention may be required. This creates a difficult dichotomy in my mind. Having been a child in an abusive home I know how incredible it would have been if somebody... anybody, would have intervened. And yet I struggle a bit with the solution being to point the big gun of the state at these families to save the children. Is there another option? As others have pointed out, and Stef has commented on numerous times, this abuse of children is only possible by the compliance and inaction of all the surrounding people. If the child is old enough, then perhaps simply confronting the parent so that the child can see, might have a huge positive impact on the child's view of reality (and future outcome). If the child is very young, then maybe state intervention is the best (only?) solution currently available. At least until we can bring back the pressures of societal ostracism for these types of adults. Perhaps I would go knock on the door until she opens, say "I hear that your child is in pain", and ask her if she needs help becoming a good person and have a good relationship with her child, if she says yes, then follow up with all the good stuff because she has agreed to letting you help her become a better person. Can you conceive of any realistic chance that a parent like this would ever respond in this manner? In my experience it takes far less provocation to raise the snarly defensive walls of these traumatized people. Maybe that is your point. So long as there isn't a drunken lout who might initiate violence against you in response... that's not going to be very helpful. I do agree with your point of providing consequences for this type of behaviour. Depending on the neighbours though, in response to your rallying effort you might receive a lot of "mind your business" from other people whose defensive walls are springing up. Most people are not so self aware to be capable of these types of rational conversations. sigh... perhaps state intervention may often be the remaining choice
A4E Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Can you conceive of any realistic chance that a parent like this would ever respond in this manner? Not really, but I think it is important to give the opportunity. She can not later then be shocked and play the victim as much when the consequences barge inn. I suspect the standard answer will be "Do you have children?", that is why a response like "Abuse is wrong in every situation" or "Abuse is still abuse no matter the circumstances", should deflect most snarkiness, and get to the point quickly. She can mumble to herself about when you get your own children, while you make a variant of Dsayers post clear. The threat alone could be enough to change her and the child's life.
ResidingOnEarth Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Stefan has talked about this a bit in his podcasts. Something he said that stuck with me was the idea of calmly asking one of these abusive parents: "is this what you had in mind when you imagined yourself as a parent? Screaming, fighting and suffering." I don't know how this woman would respond to that question or whether it's even a good idea to ask it. I can imagine it would hit deep for a lot of people though. I think if at any point you believe the child could be in mortal danger then you should immediately call the police. 1
dsayers Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 Stefan has talked about this a bit in his podcasts. Something he said that stuck with me was the idea of calmly asking one of these abusive parents: "is this what you had in mind when you imagined yourself as a parent? Screaming, fighting and suffering." I don't know how this woman would respond to that question or whether it's even a good idea to ask it. I can imagine it would hit deep for a lot of people though. Considering this was very likely the present-day parent's experience when they were the child, it might even be effective to ask them how terrified they were when their care-givers treated them in that way. However, I think this strategy of intervention works better among strangers. As the neighbor, were you to get involved at all, could have very real consequences for yourself. Which brings up another thought: Why not "get in" with all your neighbors? If he had a relationship with this neighbor already, he would've been better poised to solve this peacefully. Forgive my over-simplification, but I have experience with this myself. Once upon a time, I was living in an apartment complex. I saw a man and a woman moving into the unit below me as I was about to have a pizza delivered. I thought about ordering a 2nd and sharing with them to welcome them. I was out of work at the time, so I didn't. Didn't even introduce myself. Well they started hanging out with another guy in the complex who had a real problem with the fact that I carried a gun. As a result, the new couple began to file noise complaints against me despite me having very sensitive hearing and always doing EVERYTHING as quietly as possible (bending down to drop something into an empty trash can for example). We might not've been best of friends, but they probably wouldn't have leveled bogus complaints against the nice guy that got them a pizza and welcomed them to their new home. 1
A4E Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 ... Well they started hanging out with another guy in the complex who had a real problem with the fact that I carried a gun. As a result, the new couple began to file noise complaints against me Having a problem with you, and giving you a hard time, because you want to have something to protect your life and family with, and even be able to intervene if one of your neighbors are home invaded, and their life is in danger. That... is messed up. In Norway we are not allowed to have any powerful weapon like a gun if it is going to be used to defend ourselves. But we can have a gun for serious sports, or genuine hunting, so long as it is locked inside a regulated weapon cabinet with ammunition separate, so that it is not available if your life is in danger. Sorry for sidetrack.
ResidingOnEarth Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 In Norway we are not allowed to have any powerful weapon like a gun if it is going to be used to defend ourselves. But we can have a gun for serious sports, or genuine hunting, so long as it is locked inside a regulated weapon cabinet with ammunition separate, so that it is not available if your life is in danger. It's pretty much the same rules here in England (>.<)
Matt D Posted November 25, 2015 Author Posted November 25, 2015 Thank you for the ideas. In my more cynical moments I sometimes think CPS was created to assuage good people into thinking that they've accomplished something. ("Well, I called. Now it's in the hands of an authority which means I don't have to do anything.") I had never thought to record the abuse. I wish there was a website similar to Copblock where you could upload and tag videos of adults abusing children. That way we could start using ostracism on a wider scale. Maybe I'll make one. 1
ResidingOnEarth Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 I had never thought to record the abuse. I wish there was a website similar to Copblock where you could upload and tag videos of adults abusing children. That way we could start using ostracism on a wider scale. Maybe I'll make one. That, is an awesome idea!
J. D. Stembal Posted November 26, 2015 Posted November 26, 2015 Thank you for the ideas. In my more cynical moments I sometimes think CPS was created to assuage good people into thinking that they've accomplished something. ("Well, I called. Now it's in the hands of an authority which means I don't have to do anything.") I had never thought to record the abuse. I wish there was a website similar to Copblock where you could upload and tag videos of adults abusing children. That way we could start using ostracism on a wider scale. Maybe I'll make one. I second this idea. I had a bit of a revelation about it the other day with regard to mutilators, or parents who choose to circumcise their children. In order to effectively ostracize them socially and economically, we need a database of names, images and other relevant data. In the peaceful future, you will not be able to get away with violations of the NAP without consequences.
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