dsayers Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 I don't get into labels. As a form of shorthand, they're an imprecise method of communicating ideas. That said, I keep hearing this word (neoconservative) and have no idea what it means or where the word came from. Can anybody that follows politics or perhaps did in a previous life explain what this is about please? 1
Donnadogsoth Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 Neocons are a group of conservatives whose views descend from philosopher Leo Strauss, who in turn was a disciple of Nietzsche. Strauss talked about the elites as being those capable of withstanding the revelation that there is no good or evil. The book I read about this in, by Webster Tarpley, also talked about the neocons' Nazi connections through Prescott Bush and others, but I no longer have the book so I can't reference the chart he had. Essentially neocons are conservatives stripped of Christian goodwill and small-c conservative impulses--i.e., the impulse to actually conserve something. Hope this helps. 1
Alan C. Posted November 29, 2015 Posted November 29, 2015 In contemporary vernacular, neocons tend to be jingoistic nationalists who support protectionism, moral crusades (eg. war on drugs), and interventionist foreign-policy. Examples in mainstream media include Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Mark Levin.
shirgall Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 Wikipedia has a pretty good who's who list of the key players in neoconservative circles. I've always thought that the best exemplar was Rumsfeld, but the best spoken would be John Bolton.
EuanM Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 An interesting question. I would describe a Neoconservative as a Right Wing statist (a Progressive being a Left Wing statist). It's a big topic, so if you want me to chat about it at more length I can, but here's some material on it. BTW, I don't necessarily agree with everything in these links, especially not the second, but I think they're both informative never the less and worth watching if your interested in the subject. 1
Spenc Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 I would describe a Neoconservative as a Right Wing statist (a Progressive being a Left Wing statist). This would be a good definition. A paleoconservative would be wary of the state and interested in preserving their values and lifestyles from the government's reach. A neoconservative would be more interested in a strong state that acts to adopt, enforce and spread their 'conservative' values. So a paleo would want to stay out of foreign wars (why America didn't immediately join the Allies in WWI & WWII), a neo would have doctrines about spreading democracy and trade to other nations by force. A neoconservative would similarly have programs like War on Drugs at home to enforce their values on the domestic population
Mister Mister Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 My layman's understanding, is that, historically American conservatism was very similar to what we would think of as libertarian minarchism, a la Ron Paul. In some ways, it was a reaction against people like Woodrow Wilson or F.D. Roosevelt, who expanded both social programs and escalated wars. Someone like Barry Goldwater, who ran against Johnson, would be a good example. But there was a point at which, a bunch of former socialists (for some reason I feel the need to mention that most of them were Jews), particularly Leo Strauss, Irving Kristol of PNAC, and I might mention Christopher Hitchens as well, convinced many old-school conservatives that while small government is a nice idea, it was really important to beef up the military to 1) fight communism and 2) protect Israel. Murray Rothbard and Russell Kirk both wrote strong arguments against this position if you're curious about that. After communism it has turned to terrorism of course. I guess the idea once upon a time was, that once the West had defeated communism, then the military would shrink or something like that. Anyway, this has unfortunately become the mainstream of the Republican Party. Anyone who suggests that maybe we don't need this mammoth military force, and to have stations all over the planet, and interventions in all these different countries, is treated the same way as a Democrat who questions welfare or affirmative action or public unions. They also haven't been very good on restraining domestic spending, so basically they are national socialist, totalitarian fascist war-hawks, who call themselves conservative. The only thing vaguely conservative about them is that they claim to want to use all this government force to protect conservative values, i.e. outlaw gay marriage to protect the family (with no mention of family court or the welfare state), spread democracy and free markets in the Middle East (with bombs), or GW Bush's "we had to abandon free market principles to save the free market). I hope that clears things up. Basically it's hard to make sense of, because these people are insane. 1
Alan C. Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 I've always thought that the best exemplar was Rumsfeld, but the best spoken would be John Bolton. Other examples would include William Kristol, Newt Gingrich, Lindsey Graham, and John McCain.
NotDarkYet Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Neoconservatism isn't a philosophical position. It's a grab-bag of subjective preferences to be enforced at point of a gun. 1
dsayers Posted December 1, 2015 Author Posted December 1, 2015 Neoconservatism isn't a philosophical position. It's a grab-bag of subjective preferences to be enforced at point of a gun. I knew that much. I think that's precisely why I'm having a hard time figuring out what it means. Thanks to those who have explained it.
adamNJ Posted December 4, 2015 Posted December 4, 2015 It's the alt right, which rimes with all right.
Mantis Posted December 5, 2015 Posted December 5, 2015 Neo - a combining form meaning “new,” “recent,” “revived,” “modified,” Conservative - an adherent or advocate of political conservatism Conservatism - a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change; specifically :such a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs (as retirement income or health-care coverage) So what we have is the "new conservatism". The redefined conservative for the new age, the new millenia. The updated version, conservative 2.0. The conservative of the future. A revamping of traditional Conservatism to include elements of the new age agenda. That would be a general definition, the specific ideological engines would need to be researched further.
Alan C. Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 Chris Christie would shoot down Russian planes in no-fly zone and risk war John Kasich says we need to punch Russians in the nose These people are dangerous.
Donnadogsoth Posted December 18, 2015 Posted December 18, 2015 "Would you like to play a game?" "Yes Joshua." "What game would you like to play? "Global thermonuclear war." "Would you like to play tic-tac-toe instead?" "No, Joshua. I want to play global thermonuclear war."
TheAuger Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 Neocons are also called "Straussians", after Leo Strauss. Strauss was an influential professor at the University of Chicago who founded the movement. http://www.firstprinciplesjournal.com/articles.aspx?article=871 Co-founders include Irving Kristol, a former Trotskyite, and "Scoop" Jackson, a former Democratic Congressman from the state of Washington. Their primary doctrines are "preemptive war", "supply-side" economics, and a (seeming) Israel first foreign policy. Major neocon acolytes infested the Bush Administration -- John Bolton, Paul Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Douglas Feith, and Richard "Prince of Darkness" Pearle. John McCain and "Miss" Lindsay Graham probably the most influential neocons today. 1
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