Calling all Red Flags for guys to watch out for!

[kavih]

Let's keep an ongoing list of Red Flags guys need to watch out for when dating women. Here's an initial list I created to start things off:

 

1. Physically aggressive towards you, your friends, her friends, or strangers (includes pinching, punching, slapping, pulling, pushing, etc.)  
2. Verbally aggressive or makes fun of you, your friends, her friends, or a stranger
3. Drinks and drives
4. Jokes around about being an alcoholic or pot-head
5. Hears you, but doesn't listen
   1. Lacks genuine interest in you
   2. Asks you the same question too many times
   3. Is not empathetic with the experiences you share with her (immediately starts talking about herself after you share)
6. Can't go out in public without some kind of makeup on.
7. Wears revealing or tight clothing while in public to attract attention.
8. Prefers digital communication over in-person or verbal communication (texting, facebook, etc.)
9. Expresses she is indifferent with kids or doesn't want to have children.
10. Confidently describers herself as moody, sassy, or a "bitch" and expects you to deal with it.
11. Expects you to open doors or pay for meals or doesn't ever offer.
12. Has cheated on someone in the past.
13. Isn't looking for a relationship.
14. Has an addiction to something (drugs, alcohol, food, pain, sex, etc.)
15. Rigidly associates herself with a political party or believes government is necessary.
16. Supports corporal punishment.
17. Is a narcissist (takes a lot of selfies, shares her stories, but doesn't ask about yours, etc.)
18. Has dated/slept with someone much older or much younger than her.
19. Was raised by a single parent.

[Sabras]

Insightful

Insightful

[kavih]

Here are some more I thought of:

• Doesn't like to philosophize or avoids talking about moral/ethical issues.
• Gossips/spreads rumors.
• Tries to laugh off traumatic experiences she has had or denies herself as being a victim to them.
• Regularly watches cable television.
• Consumes mainstream media news sources as her only news sources.
• Appears reckless in behavior (highly impulsive).
• Treats you differently when one-on-one versus around other people.
• Talks about your physical features or assets when describing what she likes about you, but doesn't include anything personal about you.

[Mister Mister]

All good, some more obvious than not.  Lol about cable TV

[ribuck]

Lol about cable TV

Shopping channel is the worst!

[J. D. Stembal]

Kavih, you did a great job in covering the nastiness in women!

 

I've experienced nearly all of the above or committed these trespasses myself. This may be a bit too obvious, but all of these qualities are male qualities as well. For example, the male analog to wearing cosmetics would be driving a flashy car or wearing expensive suits.

 

Let's take a look at some more negative qualities in a mate.

 

Family and Financial:

Debt

Divorce

Doesn't know why she wants children, and does not have a plan for peaceful parenting.

 

Narcissism:

 

Shows little curiosity in your interests.

Ignores or deflects conversations, especially with sexual innuendo.

 

Dysmorphia:

 

Indifference towards long term health.

Eats/drinks for emotional reasons.

Is fat or otherwise sickly.

 

P.S. This thread should be stickied.

[NotDarkYet]

Red flags for me....

 

1. Self-identifies as a 'feminist'

2. Interested in tatoos

3. Self-identifies as 'spiritual'

4. Aggressively colored hair

5. Is extremely pretty

6. Has very little savings

[NotDarkYet]

I had a girlfriend who, over the course of a 12 month relationship, never once asked me what it was like spending 10 years living in Asia.

 

I realized this when a documentary came on Netflix about Shanghai, and I remember being so excited that I recognized so many of those places, and I thought "this is a great opportunity to share part of my life with her! - - - she wanted to watch ANYTHING else.  We had to change it.

 

She was a big time feminist.  Tats.  Makeup.

 

Good riddance.

[AccuTron]

"Wears revealing or tight clothing while in public to attract attention."

I want to say to many women (talking about a shopping mall on a warm weather day), "You dress like you gave a good time to strangers three times just on the way in from the parking lot, the only question being, were they five dollars each, or free?  What are you thinking??????"  They are not sexy in any way that I'd want to get near.

1.  
2. "Doesn't like to philosophize or avoids talking about moral/ethical issues."

Does this scream "Standard Operating Procedure" or what?  In the general case, to try to engage a female (and this may be location/demographic skewed) in an honest rational conversation, about evidence, value, and results, basic comprehension, and having it last more than ten seconds, they don't quit and run away, perhaps physically, no smug looks, is a miracle.  I've met college students who carried on perfectly decent conversation, but was only around that briefly.  The disturbing data is a constant trickle.

Which gives me a chance to praise my cute female hands-off housemate.  Under a hundred pounds and lost in her clothes, she's easy to underestimate.  She's quite naturally feminine, and guys note the bonus points on this, it's not a manipulative affectation.  An understated honest hottie, which by itself isn't worth mentioning.  

She is also mentally a complete counterpoint to the above.  Books which she has borrowed include (besides an Aristotle which I think is missing from a collection):  Senior college level physics textbook; Clauswitz' On War; and she's reading The History Of The German General Staff for the second time.  Knowing that such a female exists is like an oasis in a desert.

 

I guess that if I roamed local streets and checked with people, many would have full bookshelves.  Yet I'm also guessing that it would be strongly lefty, squishy feely, types of reading.  Which have their value, but only with larger context for progression, and that context seems to be missing, which mires thinking.  I base this upon a zillion small chance moments.  Groupthink.

 

1. "Consumes mainstream media news sources as her only news sources."
2. I watch a friend's health corrode.  Getting her to listen is like trying to wear down a brick with my thumb.  With that vapid grin, pretending to listen, like someone might actually be trying to talk to her, to share the results of dozens or hundreds of hours research, standing on the shoulders of countless diligent others, like she might be humble enough to learn.  It's those girl brains, afraid to admit mistake, afraid of breaking rank with those other girl brains and be ostracized, which would be fatal in the natural world, afraid to give up the worship of those who are in fact criminals, the curse of evolution that actually worked pretty well up until recent centuries.  She has the internet, plenty of time, and lifts not a pinky to learn from it, indeed will shy from it like Truth is a looming vampire.  Which in a way it is, it wants to suck the life out of Deceit.  This is at cross purposes with her ego/groupthink.  She watches mainstream news despite my admonitions.  Her rear end grows considerably.
3.  
4. (All this per endless internet, plus my own musings, and thanks to LOL feminism and Girl Writes What, as faces to put upon some future currency.  But keep Hamilton.)

[J. D. Stembal]

I had a girlfriend who, over the course of a 12 month relationship, never once asked me what it was like spending 10 years living in Asia.

 

I realized this when a documentary came on Netflix about Shanghai, and I remember being so excited that I recognized so many of those places, and I thought "this is a great opportunity to share part of my life with her! - - - she wanted to watch ANYTHING else.  We had to change it.

 

She was a big time feminist.  Tats.  Makeup.

 

Good riddance.

 

I have a problem with tattoos and facial piercings, in particular. Cosmetics, tastefully applied, is fine with me. I'm always disheartened when I meet an attractive and fertile young woman who has her septum pierced and tattoos crawling up the side of her neck. Ewww.

 

The lack of curiosity or enthusiasm is the worst quality, without a doubt. I want a woman to be excited for me when I hit a new weight lifting PR.

 

Honey, I pulled a 2x body weight dead lift today!

 

Hmm? Oh, that's nice, dear.

 

...will never be a conversation I have with any girlfriend.

 

[hroc]

Kavih, you did a great job in covering the nastiness in women!

 

I've experienced nearly all of the above or committed these trespasses myself. This may be a bit too obvious, but all of these qualities are male qualities as well. For example, the male analog to wearing cosmetics would be driving a flashy car or wearing expensive suits.

 

Let's take a look at some more negative qualities in a mate.

 

Family and Financial:

Debt

Divorce

Doesn't know why she wants children, and does not have a plan for peaceful parenting.

 

Narcissism:

 

Shows little curiosity in your interests.

Ignores or deflects conversations, especially with sexual innuendo.

 

Dysmorphia:

 

Indifference towards long term health.

Eats/drinks for emotional reasons.

Is fat or otherwise sickly.

 

 

P.S. This thread should be stickied.

[Wuzzums]

#1 - Dyed hair

[A4E]

Never jealous and never suspicious of affairs. (conversely a good sign if present in moderation)

[kavih]

Thanks for the contributions, guys. Let's keep the list growing!

[ddombrowsky]

1. Thinks debt is a Good Thing and necessary to get ahead in life.

2. Says she can't read a map and expresses no interest in trying (this is a learned skill ladies, everyone's gotta do it).

3. Yells at or scolds you in public.

 

From the post so far, my wife sets off none of these flags (maybe "spirituality," but in common parlance that usually means something other than the dictionary definition).  So... yay for us!

[bitcoin]

1. Indifferent
2. Lacks passion and drive
3. Lacks enthusiasm
4. Expects others to take care of her
5. Complains and is depressed more often than not
6. Visionless
7. Does not express preferences
8. Ashamed (and wants you to feel bad for her) -- rather than seeking genuine empathy, it is a drug essentially
9. Does not fulfil commitments

 

and I could go on. This list is in no particular order.

 

This list also applies to both men and women for any kind of friendship. Why would I spend a significant amount of time with anyone who is not self-motivated, interested in improving themselves, philosophical, etc. That would take a huge toll on my entire existence...

 

Also stupidity... I can't stand stupid people. She must be curious and a self motivated learner.

[Sayo]

1. Flaunts her vulnerability. (To trigger white knight response)

2. Jokes about spanking and thinks that there are no negative repercussions in practicing it. "I turned out all right"

3. says "Just because I drink doesn't mean I have problems" (my sister said this to me once)

4. "my parents did the best they could with the knowledge they had at the time" said with a gleeful smile 

 

I have a problem with tattoos and facial piercings, in particular. Cosmetics, tastefully applied, is fine with me. 

 

I don't know what it is about tattoos but they have always been a huge red flag for me too. 

[Des]

I don't know what it is about tattoos but they have always been a huge red flag for me too. 

If/when body art and body modification is easily, cheaply, painlessly, and completely reversible, I would/will try it.  Before that time arrives, tattoos (generally) say a person is oversure of his future preferences, or is willing to make an imposition on the preferences of his future self.

Also, how tattooed people act in movies and TV shows tends to be physically aggressive, and I want to steer away from being perceived to be aggressive.

A "stuff-you and what you want" attitude to the future self and to other people.

This is of course a generalisation, I hope there are some very nice peaceful people who login to FDR and have tattoos.

A google search let me know that some tattoos are used to cover scars from abuse - now if one has processed the emotional trauma from abuse, and used tattoos to make the physical scars more presentable, that would seem like a rational exception to the generalisation.

[J. D. Stembal]

If/when body art and body modification is easily, cheaply, painlessly, and completely reversible, I would/will try it.  Before that time arrives, tattoos (generally) say a person is oversure of his future preferences, or is willing to make an imposition on the preferences of his future self.

Also, how tattooed people act in movies and TV shows tends to be physically aggressive, and I want to steer away from being perceived to be aggressive.

A "stuff-you and what you want" attitude to the future self and to other people.

This is of course a generalisation, I hope there are some very nice peaceful people who login to FDR and have tattoos.

A google search let me know that some tattoos are used to cover scars from abuse - now if one has processed the emotional trauma from abuse, and used tattoos to make the physical scars more presentable, that would seem like a rational exception to the generalisation.

 

As has been explored in other threads on FDR, tattoos are most often physical representations of emotional scars received in childhood. Even worse, since tattoos can usually be seen by most people, the victim is broadcasting his abuse to everyone around him, which lacks empathy. It would be like me saying I'm a victim of sexual abuse and rape over and over again to no one in particular so that everyone around me knows that fact, but cannot show any curiosity about it.

[Quadrewple]

"Self-knowledge is about slowing down" - one of the most insightful of Stef's quotes

 

 

Manipulators tend to want you to rush through your decision making process whenever they're trying to manipulate you into doing something which is in their interest and not in yours.

 

So I'd say feeling rushed when in a woman's presence is a GIANT red flag, especially if you notice correlation between her company and feeling rushed.

[kavih]

"Self-knowledge is about slowing down" - one of the most insightful of Stef's quotes

 

 

Manipulators tend to want you to rush through your decision making process whenever they're trying to manipulate you into doing something which is in their interest and not in yours.

 

So I'd say feeling rushed when in a woman's presence is a GIANT red flag, especially if you notice correlation between her company and feeling rushed.

Wow, that hugely resonates with experiences I've had with women. Luckily, I don't think any of them turned into dates or more.

[J. D. Stembal]

"Self-knowledge is about slowing down" - one of the most insightful of Stef's quotes

 

 

Manipulators tend to want you to rush through your decision making process whenever they're trying to manipulate you into doing something which is in their interest and not in yours.

 

So I'd say feeling rushed when in a woman's presence is a GIANT red flag, especially if you notice correlation between her company and feeling rushed.

 

Wow, what a great insight. I'm not sure how I missed this. Personally, I think women are far more pushy and rushed when it comes to sex than men, but this is a reflection on my past experiences.

 

The rushers will expect you to initiate sex at the earliest opportunity. If you stall or take your time, they tend to lose interest fairly quickly. I would estimate if after six weeks of chatting and dating, if you have not had sex, and she's still speaking to you, you've successfully found an unhurried woman.

[WasatchMan]

Don't know if this one has been put out there:

 

- Claims to have a lot of male friends (this is usually just a bunch of betas circling the water).

[A4E]

Has children and says that you have to love them.

[kavih]

I just got back from my nephew's birthday party. There was a woman there (with her son playing with my nephew) that was hitting on me. Years ago, without FDR's help, I would have written off the following red flags and probably would have pursued her, since she was "cute:"

 

1) Mentioned she likes to find ways to get rid of her son (having her family/friends/neighbors watch him) so she can drink with her friends.

2) Was drinking all day (about 4 drinks over 5 hours), while being the only adult responsible for her son (she is divorced I believe).

3) Slightly overweight and not trying to overcome it at the party (eating unhealthy foods).

4) Was avoiding discussing any kind of philosophy: I had started a conversation about the recent US terrorist attacks; she responded with making fun of Putin's last name.

5) She tried to give me a hard time in front of others as I was putting on my shoes to leave, since I had yet to say goodbye. Since she was being so public about hitting on me, I think she wanted to try and shame me since she felt rejected, even though I was going to say goodbye eventually.

 

Since she was hitting on me from the beginning, I knew I had to be extra alert, since her red flags had an agenda. It's seriously amazing to actually notice the red flags now!

[Des]

As has been explored in other threads on FDR, tattoos are most often physical representations of emotional scars received in childhood. Even worse, since tattoos can usually be seen by most people, the victim is broadcasting his abuse to everyone around him, which lacks empathy. It would be like me saying I'm a victim of sexual abuse and rape over and over again to no one in particular so that everyone around me knows that fact, but cannot show any curiosity about it.

 

 

I'd like to divert this side discussion to this thread

[AccuTron]

Don't know if this one has been put out there:

 

- Claims to have a lot of male friends (this is usually just a bunch of betas circling the water).

Many years ago, college town social crowd, one decent woman told me, in response to a comment about having mostly male friends, that "women's worst enemies are other women."

So there may be more than one reason for this.

[WasatchMan]

Many years ago, college town social crowd, one decent woman told me, in response to a comment about having mostly male friends, that "women's worst enemies are other women."

So there may be more than one reason for this.

 

Yeah, that is actually the typical line they give. I don't buy it.

 

Even if the girl is that naive, you know that all the guy "friends" aren't there typically for a platonic situation.

[Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit]

Yeah, that is actually the typical line they give. I don't buy it.

 

Even if the girl is that naive, you know that all the guy "friends" aren't there typically for a platonic situation.

 

That may often be the case. I do think a lot of girls are extremely naive about their male friends' intentions towards them.

 

However, I happen to be one of those females with only male friends. I would desperately love to have female friends. (I had one, but she died, so only men now.) The male friends I have are ones that I have acquired through common interests. For a long time, I was active in politics, which didn't really attract many women. The friends I have now are the guys who work on my farm. Sadly, there aren't too many modern women in their 20s and 30s who want to get their hands dirty doing hard work on a farm, although I'd love to have some there. So in my case, I take what I can get, friendship-wise.

 

Unless a girl has other significant warning signs, I wouldn't necessarily think that a girl having only male friends is a deal breaker. The ones whose male friends are "betas circling in the water" usually have obvious personality flaws, imo.

[Jer]

Lots of women I've known are chronically late. It is a pet peeve of mine and I think symptomatic of a lack of empathy.

[brucethecollie]

Humbly, I share some things I learned from my husband quoted more or less how I remember:

 

-if you want to playfully tease or punch an arm but don't want that done to you, you make no sense

 

-don't wear a tight, low cut shirt if you don't want someone to stare at them

 

-just because i'm bigger and stronger than you doesn't mean i should always physically do things so you don't have to

 

-two alcoholic drinks for each of us isn't the same because I weigh plenty more than you 

 

-being horny or not being horny are both normal and natural states for a man

 

Women who need the above explained are red flags, as you all know.  Luckily when confronted about each of these, my logic kicked in and I submitted to the truth.  So if you like someone, challenging the red flags may be worthwhile.  In some cases a paradigm shift can handle many red flags at once.  

[Des]

Lots of women I've known are chronically late. It is a pet peeve of mine and I think symptomatic of a lack of empathy.

I think many people don't compare performance against estimates, or do it in an odd way, like yes, it does take only 30 minutes to drive from A to B, but the walk to/from car at each end always gets ignored as if you can drive from 5th floor cubicle to 3rd floor meeting room in the nearby city. Also hair, make-up and outfit-selection time: do people actually check the before and after times of an actual event to use for the next estimate? Oh, and if my having agreed to be somewhere at a given time, will be used as leverage to get me to do something first, can I have the list before I agree to the time? (I left that woman long ago)

[AccuTron]

Yeah, that is actually the typical line they give. I don't buy it.

 

Even if the girl is that naive, you know that all the guy "friends" aren't there typically for a platonic situation.

I don't think so.  She wasn't selling me anything, just answering a comment.  The many guys usually had their own girlfriends, within a larger group (while acknowledging a mix and match aspect to that).  There are a lot of women who make me cringe, but she wasn't one of them.  

[fractional slacker]

Red flags for me....

 

1. Self-identifies as a 'feminist'

2. Interested in tatoos

3. Self-identifies as 'spiritual'

4. Aggressively colored hair

5. Is extremely pretty

6. Has very little savings

 

First four totally on board with. For me 5 and 6 are more yellow flags rather than red.

 

Sorry if these have already been mentioned.

 I would add:

5. any piecing other than ears.

6. Skipping over or refusal of explanation for last failed relationship.

7. Likes cartoons, comics, science fiction.

8. Same aesthetics as in high school - music, movies, clothes.

9. Is attached to phone.

10. fondness for orthoexia.

[WasatchMan]

I don't think so.  She wasn't selling me anything, just answering a comment.  The many guys usually had their own girlfriends, within a larger group (while acknowledging a mix and match aspect to that).  There are a lot of women who make me cringe, but she wasn't one of them.  

 

meh.. I really don't know what that is suppose to mean.  One girl you know wasn't using her sexual market value to get a group of men circling around her according to your observations (which may entirely be because you were one of the guys circling). Sorry, but that doesn't mean much to me.

 

I think I have been around long enough to know that men and women are generally incompatible for deep, meaningful, platonic relationships. Can it happen? Sure. 

 

The issue is sex doesn't cost much, feels great, and we are genetically programmed to seek it as one of our highest priorities after food, water, and shelter.  What reason would a man and women have that were in a close relationship to not be also seeking sex with each other if they are both attracted to the opposite sex?