Des Posted December 11, 2015 Posted December 11, 2015 meh.. I really don't know what that is suppose to mean. One girl you know wasn't using her sexual market value to get a group of men circling around her according to your observations (which may entirely be because you were one of the guys circling). Sorry, but that doesn't mean much to me. I think I have been around long enough to know that men and women are generally incompatible for deep, meaningful, platonic relationships. Can it happen? Sure. The issue is sex doesn't cost much, feels great, and we are genetically programmed to seek it as one of our highest priorities after food, water, and shelter. What reason would a man and women have that were in a close relationship to not be also seeking sex with each other if they are both attracted to the opposite sex? After typing below, I have re-read the proposed flag, which reads: "Claims to have a lot of male friends" (emphasis added). My two best friends are women. I am in a relationship with a woman (I count her as lover and she is not one of the two I count as friends). I have no male friends. I would happily have sex with either of my two friends if I were single (but I rarely am single, and I don't expect my current relationship to end until I outlive my [younger] lover). If a potential lover of either of my friends, viewed me as a circling Beta, he would be incorrect, and if he were were to investigate with an open mind, I could answer honestly as I have done here: I enjoy sex, but I weigh it up against the cost of the drama that comes after. I really don't need life-threatening drama for a little pleasure. One day one of you may have a deep, meaningful, platonic relationship with me, and that would be fine, but I'm keeping the two friends I made before FDR, and if they lack depth to some extent, they are at least people with proximity and can give and receive a hug and some meaningful empathy in person, often enough to matter. I see now that I do not object to your premise in the case that the males have been single all the time whilst circling (i.e. if they [would] move off [if]/when they have/she has a lover, but come back when single). So my objection to your premise for the other cases is the threat cost of drama (from cheating on monogamy), and my answer to your question is: the reason is a (rational) fear of drama and empathy for other actors in the drama. Perhaps I am quite exceptional in being a man with only two friends, both female. Tell me if you think that is how it is and if you think a person should use what we have discussed to explore below this flag, or if you think this flag has explanations too simple to explore. "a lot" of male friends could mean she does not carefully distinguish friendship from acquaintanceship (is that worth asking, or would a deeper person use words more carefully?). Claiming to have a lot of male friends could be some manipulation wrt competition. One or two male friends could be friendzoned suitors or genuine friends. Are the "claims to" and "a lot" part of this flag, key to having the flag go up? What if she introduces you to 8 male friends [technically that is a claim to have enough male friends to count as "a lot"], but is qualitatively different from saying "I have lots of men friends", which creates a suspicion of manipulation or of superficiality. Also, saying "This my friend Bob" is warm, compared to "This is Bob, from the hiking club" (somewhat colder). Let me just add here that I am finding not so much to add to discussions on this forum. When someone says something I can object to, there is usually someone else who will object before I do. This is not a complaint, it is an observation. I am having fun here.
AccuTron Posted December 11, 2015 Posted December 11, 2015 meh.. I really don't know what that is suppose to mean. One girl you know wasn't using her sexual market value to get a group of men circling around her according to your observations (which may entirely be because you were one of the guys circling). Sorry, but that doesn't mean much to me. I think I have been around long enough to know that men and women are generally incompatible for deep, meaningful, platonic relationships. Can it happen? Sure. The issue is sex doesn't cost much, feels great, and we are genetically programmed to seek it as one of our highest priorities after food, water, and shelter. What reason would a man and women have that were in a close relationship to not be also seeking sex with each other if they are both attracted to the opposite sex? Okay, you got me thinking, and remembering more. Like, didn't she later date a married man on the sly? Yes, to probably all that you wrote. I was young, innocent, blind as hell. I should rephrase the statement. Not as having many male friends, but as having few female friends. I also recall that she was one of two female chain smokers I knew who stopped cold turkey. The second one stopped because I was dating her and told her that her breath smelled like ashtrays, tho' I probably put it more gently. Now I'm wondering if the first one, that woman I first mentioned, also quit for dating purposes, as opposed to health. I'll never know, or care, but it does put the uncertainty back into things...by pointing out the usual certainties.
Des Posted December 12, 2015 Posted December 12, 2015 Sure, have a flag go up on "lots of men friends" - however - if a person can successfully negotiate the less simple waters of friendship across the gender gap - that is a sign that says: "self-knowledge within".
J-William Posted December 13, 2015 Posted December 13, 2015 Regarding tatoos and hair coloring; it seems there's pretty wide agreement on that. I'll just throw my own observation on the pile. an acquaintance of mine has tatoos all over her body and had bright red hair when I first met her. Since I have been pursuing self knowledge for many years now I was curious to see where this disfunction showed up and through talking with her I have gathered several further indicators. She says her childhood was rough and her dad was "tough", but has a great relationship with her parents. And explaining the tatoos she says that everyone where she's from gets tatoos and spends all their time in the sun getting cancer (except for those nerds in the library who I'm sure no one noticed). She claims to be into psychology and yet has shitty drunk friends around... I think it would be easy to look at someone like her and think she was an exception to the tattoos and bright hair = dysfunction rule. She's not overtly dysfunctional, she's friendly and nice enough, but she's erected quite a number of barriers to honesty and self knowledge in her life. If you were my friend and wanted to date her I would warn you away because I like to keep my friends. Regarding tatoos and hair coloring; it seems there's pretty wide agreement on that. I'll just throw my own observation on the pile. an acquaintance of mine has tatoos all over her body and had bright red hair when I first met her. Since I have been pursuing self knowledge for many years now I was curious to see where this disfunction showed up and through talking with her I have gathered several further indicators. She says her childhood was rough and her dad was "tough", but has a great relationship with her parents. And explaining the tatoos she says that everyone where she's from gets tatoos and spends all their time in the sun getting cancer (except for those nerds in the library who I'm sure no one noticed). She claims to be into psychology and yet has shitty drunk friends around... I think it would be easy to look at someone like her and think she was an exception to the tattoos and bright hair = dysfunction rule. She's not overtly dysfunctional, she's friendly and nice enough, but she's erected quite a number of barriers to honesty and self knowledge in her life. If you were my friend and wanted to date her I would warn you away because I like to keep my friends.
shirgall Posted December 13, 2015 Posted December 13, 2015 "Hates gun owners" was one I was used for a decade. Living in Portland, Oregon for that time I was rather lonely. There's something in the water. 2
A4E Posted December 13, 2015 Posted December 13, 2015 7. Likes cartoons, comics, science fiction. 9. Is attached to phone. I am curious about nr 7. Could you explain why it is a red flag? And nr 9 could be interpreted to mean a lot of people today. Do you mean if it seems to be an actual body part for most of the day, and is given the most attention? Or do you also mean people who routinely spend around 2 hours on facebook, and 2 hours texting people per day? 1
brucethecollie Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Quick question...several people have mentioned (including on other threads) that dyed hair is a red flag. Does this include dying hair to cover gray hair? Just super curious. Thanks! 1
fractional slacker Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 I am curious about nr 7. Could you explain why it is a red flag? And nr 9 could be interpreted to mean a lot of people today. Do you mean if it seems to be an actual body part for most of the day, and is given the most attention? Or do you also mean people who routinely spend around 2 hours on facebook, and 2 hours texting people per day? #7 My experience has been females that are into comics, science fiction, and especially cartoons lack maturity at some level. They prefer avoiding serious issues by indulging a non existent fantasy realm. #9 I am referring more to the short attention span must be constantly distracted type of phone user. The sort of phone user that becomes more interested in the phone than their immediate surroundings. They can't sit for two minutes without an electronic hit to relieve anxiety. Frequenting twitter or instagram are indications of this type. Do you know of women that are fond of comics, cartoons, or science fiction that are not dysfunctional? Quick question...several people have mentioned (including on other threads) that dyed hair is a red flag. Does this include dying hair to cover gray hair? Just super curious. Thanks! For me, dyed hair is no problem. It's the wacky clown colored hair that is a clear and unmistakable warning sign.
A4E Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Do you know of women that are fond of comics, cartoons, or science fiction that are not dysfunctional? Yes, she does not seem to have any particular problem talking about serious issues. But your nr 7 made me think a lot.
Matt D Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 I've made enough mistakes that I can contribute to the wall of hard-won, red-flag knowledge: 1. Uses the phrase "I feel like...(you're not listening)" instead of "My perception is that..." This indicates shallow self-awareness of her genuine feelings because she can't separate thoughts from emotions. 2. Says she's interested in "exploring the possibility of" polyamory because "modern. feminism. oppression." UGH. Don't go there. (R selected) 3. Says she has a problem with your friends or if you have a problem with her friends. 4. Says she doesn't care how much money a man makes, it's his looks that drive her to date a guy. (R selected) 5. Tells you about her abusive family but says she doesn't see the harm in small doses of them. She treats her parents as a financial lifeline. 6. (repeat) Rushing into any kind of sexual act early on. Be especially wary if she tries to convince you your inhibitions are holding you back. (R selected to the max) 2
Wuzzums Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 Relevant to this thread: 4chan's Guide to Avoiding Evil Women
neeeel Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 Relevant to this thread: 4chan's Guide to Avoiding Evil Women I read this. Im not sure its for real. It seems like it eliminates all women.
AccuTron Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 I read this. Im not sure its for real. It seems like it eliminates all women. I haven't read the article yet, but when I saw the title, the thought that flashed thru my mind was "Doesn't that mean ALL women?" Honest reaction. I know there are decent women in forum here, a small number put against the national/international population, and I think even one of them echoed what I'd seen elsewhere, that decent (honest, rational) women are maybe less than one percent. So 99+% seems pretty close to "all." --- Having read it now, yeah, a point or two lurches, but overall a useful intro guide. I like dogs, but have to go over my memory about who had dogs...it was always the guys if just one person. When I was in a long relationship, my woman found all the dogs we had and we loved them dearly; yet she definitely had clutter issues.
brucethecollie Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 Relevant to this thread: 4chan's Guide to Avoiding Evil Women lol yeah, this makes me think of paranoia...much of what is there is assuming a lot or maybe this guy had poor experiences with women and just typed up all their traits...
Wuzzums Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 I read this. Im not sure its for real. It seems like it eliminates all women. lol yeah, this makes me think of paranoia...much of what is there is assuming a lot or maybe this guy had poor experiences with women and just typed up all their traits... It's some good advice mixed in with prejudice. Now it sounds to me like it was written by a MGTOW, however it did teach me, a long time ago when I first read it, about personality disorders. 1
Black Anarchist Posted December 18, 2015 Posted December 18, 2015 Is having 7 children from a previous relationship a red flag. Does it become red with every additional child. It's some good advice mixed in with prejudice. Now it sounds to me like it was written by a MGTOW, however it did teach me, a long time ago when I first read it, about personality disorders. Prehaps, all of these things contribute to a miner read flag.
kavih Posted January 15, 2016 Author Posted January 15, 2016 Unfortunately, these were experienced from a former FDR listener that I was trying to get to know romantically before she went off the rails, slamming FDR: Used no punctuation or capitalized letters during a lot of our online communication to each other (laziness and lack of reciprocity to my well-constructed messages). Responded to my posts, but didn't answer questions I asked within them or didn't answer them at all (again, laziness and lack of reciprocity). It's too bad I met her at a time where she was so hurt from a past relationship. I'm just glad I noticed the red flags enough to remember to post them here. Be aware of these.
LovePrevails Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 I was told that this video included "A lifetime of take-aways" 1
kavih Posted January 17, 2016 Author Posted January 17, 2016 I was told that this video included "A lifetime of take-aways" Thanks.
tasmlab Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 All good, some more obvious than not. Lol about cable TV There's some great programming on cable. I submit to you most HBO series. But I guess this is a list of "red flags", not "dealbreakers."
AncapFTW Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 Let's keep an ongoing list of Red Flags guys need to watch out for when dating women. Here's an initial list I created to start things off: Physically aggressive towards you, your friends, her friends, or strangers (includes pinching, punching, slapping, pulling, pushing, etc.) Verbally aggressive or makes fun of you, your friends, her friends, or a stranger Drinks and drives Jokes around about being an alcoholic or pot-head Hears you, but doesn't listen Lacks genuine interest in you Asks you the same question too many times Is not empathetic with the experiences you share with her (immediately starts talking about herself after you share) Can't go out in public without some kind of makeup on. Wears revealing or tight clothing while in public to attract attention. Prefers digital communication over in-person or verbal communication (texting, facebook, etc.) Expresses she is indifferent with kids or doesn't want to have children. Confidently describers herself as moody, sassy, or a "bitch" and expects you to deal with it. Expects you to open doors or pay for meals or doesn't ever offer. Has cheated on someone in the past. Isn't looking for a relationship. Has an addiction to something (drugs, alcohol, food, pain, sex, etc.) Rigidly associates herself with a political party or believes government is necessary. Supports corporal punishment. Is a narcissist (takes a lot of selfies, shares her stories, but doesn't ask about yours, etc.) Has dated/slept with someone much older or much younger than her. Was raised by a single parent. So because I, as a guy, fit 8,9,13, and in certain situations 16, I'm not fit to have a relationship? First four totally on board with. For me 5 and 6 are more yellow flags rather than red. Sorry if these have already been mentioned. I would add: 5. any piecing other than ears. 6. Skipping over or refusal of explanation for last failed relationship. 7. Likes cartoons, comics, science fiction. 8. Same aesthetics as in high school - music, movies, clothes. 9. Is attached to phone. 10. fondness for orthoexia. same. Why does it matter if they are a woman? Why does only wanting to "eat healthy", the definition of orthorexia, make them unfit? 1
Max Hartford Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 These lists seem awfully restrictive, and prone to exclude almost every woman on earth. I think you need to understand another person more as a whole rather than as a list of traits in order to determine if they are right for you or not. 1
shirgall Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 These lists seem awfully restrictive, and prone to exclude almost every woman on earth. I think you need to understand another person more as a whole rather than as a list of traits in order to determine if they are right for you or not. Yeah, the "red flag" terminology sets the stage too starkly. These things are warnings, and if you find someone that's willing to learn, willing to garner self-knowledge and shows some real empathy, there's plenty to work with even if some things are not perfect.
AncapFTW Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 They're "red flags," not "dealbreakers." #13 is "isn't looking for a relationship" so...? I believe the issue with orthorexia is that the preoccupation with only eating healthy foods has made its way to an unhealthy level. Of course this is rather subjective, as with most relationship judgements. So I think the idea here (and maybe the whole point of red flags in general) is to have some curiosity as to whether there are some dysfunctions underlying these outward expressions. If your assessment finds that no, these are perfectly healthy adaptations and the person has self-knowledge regarding their past dysfunctions, then cool. But if they are clueless as to the origins and causes and impacts of these red flags, well then you may have uncovered a dealbreaker (at least for me it would be). Was does this even mean? Just because they aren't looking for a relationship doesn't mean that they want to not be in a relationship. 2
Teiid Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 Divorce can be a red flag or a green one. My wife and I are both divorced. Not from each other (that's my go-to joke, every time). We both were the initiators of divorce in our previous marriages, which were our first marriages. Divorce taught us both a huge amount of what it takes to make a successful relationship. If not for our divorces, we would be entirely different (and miserable) people today. Instead, I can objectively say that we have the most healthy relationship I know of. Better than I had ever dreamed. Divorce taught us how to "fight." The secret is to remember that if your partner messed up or slighted you that it wasn't on purpose. That they're your teammate, and you need to support each other when mistakes happen. If she trips and knocks into you, you don't get mad at her. You make sure she's ok and check to see what she tripped on so you can avoid it in the future. Divorce taught us how to be honest. Honesty is not just telling the truth. It's explaining how you feel about the truth especially when it seems unnecessary. Openness isn't responding to a question honestly, it's bringing up something without being asked and asking how your partner feels about it. There's a number of other things, but those are the two big concepts. Some of the mentioned red flags are unavoidable, but others really need to be explored before you cut someone out of the running. Still, after you explore, don't be afraid to cut them if it turns out to be red. Never get into a relationship to try and "fix" someone.
shirgall Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 Release the hounds! http://lifehacker.com/what-are-your-biggest-red-flags-when-you-start-dating-s-1757904969 1
dsayers Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 Here's one not yet on the list: Has cut out everybody she has ever known and can convincingly explain why.
dsayers Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 Verbally aggressive or makes fun of you, your friends, her friends, or a stranger I was wondering why making fun of a stranger qualifies.
Donnadogsoth Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 Calls herself a "diva" and/or admires "divas." Into New Age/Wicca/Goddess-anything. Can't take a compliment.
Des Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 Was does this even mean? Just because they aren't looking for a relationship doesn't mean that they want to not be in a relationship. What do you conclude, if a woman tells you she is not looking for a relationship, while at the same time she has some level of emotional desire to be in a relationship? Sure, I can honestly say I am not looking for a gold ingot, and in this case my purpose in telling you that is illustrative. In the case of a woman making the technically honest statement that she is not looking for a relationship in the way that I am not looking for a gold ingot, what would be her purpose in doing that? Do we usually list all the items we are not currently searching for, but would grab with both hands if offered them?
bulgakov Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 No offense, but all these lists just seem like every flaw you could find in anyone. It leaves very little wiggle room for people to work with. Just my opinion.
Donnadogsoth Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 No offense, but all these lists just seem like every flaw you could find in anyone. It leaves very little wiggle room for people to work with. Just my opinion. Here is some wiggle room for you: http://www.theonion.com/article/apartment-full-of-jesus-stuff-brings-date-to-scree-1500
shirgall Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 No offense, but all these lists just seem like every flaw you could find in anyone. It leaves very little wiggle room for people to work with. Just my opinion. A red flag is not a deal breaker, it is a caution. 1
bulgakov Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 Here is some wiggle room for you: http://www.theonion.com/article/apartment-full-of-jesus-stuff-brings-date-to-scree-1500 LOLOL that is awesome. Not sure why it was downvoted though.
Recommended Posts