I would really appreciate some advice...

[Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit]

I am hoping someone here can give me some insight or perspective on some problems I am having. I'll try to keep it fairly brief, as I know people hate getting bogged down in details. (Feel free to skip to the end.)

 

Some background: I moved countries to be with my husband four years ago. I spent my first year here unable to work and sat home by myself every single day. I did not know anybody here except my husband and all my friends back home quickly forgot about me (the time difference didn't help). I was extremely lonely and isolated.

 

During the first year of our marriage, my mother in law came into our care. She is elderly and needed constant supervision and care. Without going into detail, my husband regularly put his mother ahead of me and our marriage. (She has since gone back to her country of origin.) It put a huge strain on our relationship and it was at this point that I sought out individual counseling for myself and requested we both go to couples counseling.

 

My husband refused to go to counseling with me until just last week. These past few years, he has been happy enough and would always dismiss my concerns. His belief has been that the problems in our marriage are actually my problems exclusively.

 

The catalyst for his change of heart is a friend of mine. Some months ago, my best friend back home (and the only friend I still had back home who still talked to me) passed away and in the aftermath I became much closer friends with a male friend I have here. This person has been a very good friend to me and we share a lot in common.

 

My husband took notice that this male friend and I were becoming quite close and I guess it made him realise that he and I don't really share an emotional connection these days. He is now extremely suspicious of my male friend and is blaming him for the problems in our marriage (which predate me even knowing this person). But insecurity and jealousy have now prompted him to come to counseling. Better late than never, I guess.

 

Things have become more complicated as my friend has decided he does not like my husband at all. He thinks my husband is dishonest and fake and is encouraging me to get a divorce. This was originally said on the pretense of being concerned with my long term happiness and well being, but he has since admitted he loves me, so obviously there is an ulterior motive here, despite the fact that he is still portraying himself to be objective.

Friends are extremely important to me. I rarely have more than a handful and I am extremely loyal to them. After losing my only other friend and having spent so long here with no friends at all, I would be devastated to lose this person as a friend. Aside from this one issue we have, he's an amazing person.

 

However, he is now telling me that if I ever have a baby with my husband, he will consider me to be such an immoral person that he would no longer be able to stand any contact with me. I feel like he is giving me an ultimatum, though he is framing it as his "choice to walk away" if he wants to. He says he's happy to remain friends with me as long as I never have children with a dishonest man (because somehow that means my children will be dishonest people and will ruin the world that his non-existent kids have to live in).

 

I'm so stressed out and emotionally exhausted I can't even think of how to argue with him or stand up for myself.

 

I don't know how to handle this. I do love my husband, despite his flaws, and I do want to make a sincere effort to fix our relationship if possible. But I don't want to lose my only friend. I feel like no matter what I do, I'm going to be the one who comes out the loser in a big way. I would really appreciate any advice. Thanks in advance...

(TLDR: My only friend says "if you have a baby, I'll never speak to you again".)

[Rachelle]

It's disheartening to know you're in so isolated, from my personal experience I find it can be very dangerous to be so alone. I'm sorry to hear about your friend passing and that it wasn't your husband you grew closer to in this difficult time, I'm sure that must've been difficult.

I don't know you're husband or this other guy but I can give you my thoughts on what you shared.

When and how did you become friends with this other man? I don't know the details of the situation but it's suspicious to me that you grew closer to this man during a very emotionally and vulnerable time in your life when your friend passed. Did he ask you if you were sharing this difficultly with your husband and if not, why? I'm not against friends supporting each other or growing closer by sharing vulnerablities and challenges in life but I would question the man's motive especially after knowing he claims to love you and wants you to divorce your husband.

Why does he think your husband is dishonest and fake? From what you said about him saying he wants you to divorce for your own future happiness and well-being and that him loving you doesn't have an effect on his motive makes me think he himself isn't being honest. Has he told you that he wants to be with you?

I'm not sure what being loyal means in this context. Do you feel as if your somehow betraying your friend?  This one issue you speak of seems to lead into more than one, and what one issue are you refering to? The one where he claims to love you and isn't being honest with you about his motive for wanting you to divorce or the fact that he doesn't want you to have children with your husband?

Have you told the man that when he tells you not to have a baby with your husband or he'll leave that you experience this as an ultimatum, and if so, how has he responded? Is he considering your well-being and happiness when threatening to leave if you have children with your husband? What's his reasoning or evidence for claiming that you'll be immoral if your have children with your husband? Is he concerned that the children will be harmed having a dishonest father and therefore your husband is unfit? Does he see himself as being an unfit father because he himself is being dishonest (based on what little I see)? Would this man be okay if you wanted to have children with your husband but never acted on it partially out of fear of losing his friendship? Would he be okay with that kind of self-erasure and fear within your relationship? It sounds like he's okay to be friends with you unless you have children not because he's worried about children growing up with a dishonest father but because if you don't have children he can hold out hope or keep encouraging you to get a divorce and not have to deal with the children you would have had with your husband.

If you tell him that you love your husband, despite his flaws, and want to put in effort to fix your relationship what does he say? Is he understanding and supportive of your desires and by support I don't mean withholding his opinion or blindly follow your desires but rather showing interest and curiousity in you and what you want with your husband? If he thinks your husband is a horrible person then why would he want to be friends with a women (you) who wants to stay in a relationship with a horrible person?

Perhaps it'd also be helpful to not get trapped in thinking that the most important choice to make is choosing between your husband or this other guy but rather choosing between being honest or dishonest with yourself and both of these men. Being honest with both your husband and this other guy I would say is the best thing to do. Which includes being honest about your experience of this man's dishonesty and concern for what appears to be a hidden motive and how you experience him telling you not to have children with the man you married and what and you think and feel about your husband's lack of concern for your experience of the relationship you have with him.

I personally question the quality of this man and his friendship and hope you take care not to be guilted or manipulated into making decisions that go against what you desire and wish to work for.

Again, you have my sympathies for being so isolated, I know how dangerous it is to attempt to navigate relationships alone and how the fear of being alone can tempt you to ignore the warning signs seen in the people you have relationships with. Take care.

[Carl Green]

What is your motivation for making another person?

 

My advice would be to put this potential person's well being top on your list. Will this emotionally blind husband of yours (from context, not saying it's true) be a good father and model how a husband should be receptive to his wife's concerns?

[st434u]

An amazing person doesn't go around breaking up people's marriages so that they can get laid. Your marriage is obviously going through some rough times, but the solution is not to seek the affection of another man. The first thing you need to do is dispel this illusion that this friend of yours is an "amazing person", and realize that in all likelihood, this friendship is doomed no matter what, and that at some point along the line, you should've seen this and ended it, but didn't.

 

I suggest you talk to your husband directly about what's going on for you, rather than depending on a counselor to make him talk. Also, no, seeking the attention of another man so that you can make your husband jealous in the hopes of dragging him into counseling is not the way to go. That is in fact one of the surest ways to destroy your marriage.

 

Obviously your husband isn't giving the problems in your marriage the attention they require, but two wrongs don't make a right, they just make the situation doubly bad.

 

About what your husband said on the problems being yours alone and not of the both of you, well in a marriage, if one of the two has a problem, then both of them deal with the problem together, or at least one should support, encourage and advise the other in solving the problem.

[AccuTron]

"I feel like he is giving me an ultimatum,"

"if you have a baby, I'll never speak to you again"

 

To me, this screams "manipulative creep."

 

​We've gone into tons about religion in forum, yet one thing I find very valuable, regardless of even the existence of religious beliefs.  That is to ask the question "Does this serve Satan?"  The wording focuses the mind.  

 

Read those two lines of yours above, seems pretty clear to me.  I recognize your emotional starvation, yet like food starvation, taking the only morsel offered, if it's poison, is not the correct choice.  

 

I'm not saying you have an obviously correct and easy choice*, but it's not to give in to coercion from a person who clearly is (somewhat cruelly, and very selfishly) arm-twisting you from a distance.  What would he be like up close, and you can't get rid of him?  A field may provide a delightful view from a distance, but up close it may have thistles and rats.

 

(*Other than what you are doing right here, which is a very correct choice.)

 

 

per st434u:  

"I suggest you talk to your husband directly about what's going on for you,"  

Why not have your husband type directly to us here?  An amazing, honest, free resource, and nobody, I mean nobody, gets by with any B.S. or it gets a group pounce.

[regevdl]

I am very sorry to hear about your challenges. I am very happy that you are both in counseling!    I can relate to some as I also moved overseas back to my husband's homeland. If you don't mind I'll just sort of point out some 'knee jerk' items that popped out on me and then put more thought.  I hope that doesn't sound attacking but I noticed with my friends, when we have open and honest conversation, to try to be objective, we point out which parts of the story 'hit' us first when hearing it and then work from there.  So, let's give it a go. 

 

The part where you explained that your husband is jealous of you and your male friend's relationship.  I can totally understand that you have an emotional connection with the friend and cannot blame your husband for those feelings.  There is such a thing as an emotional affair and it's equally destructive, if not voiced openly and honestly with your spouse.

 

Your 'friend', I'm  afraid is not a friend if he is encouraging you to get a divorce. Look, I am a happily married woman with 2 children, so I think it's safe to say that I have no desire nor chance to have sex with you.  (ok..stop laughing..I'm serious!)   and I don't know you personally nor have established a deep emotional connection to you as you have with your male friend but hear me out.....  I would never encourage you to get a divorce until you have both put in the serious effort of counseling and self awareness your marriage, you both as individuals deserve.   The fact that this man you call a 'friend' is jumping to the 'result' of a divorce is for HIS self interest.  He may have some valid and true points about your husband but, you may not be a saint either.  AGain, maybe you are an usually these situations have 2 guilty parties.  

 

I have some questions....they are more for you to answer for yourself but feel free to share as much as you feel comfortable with.  

 

You stated that your MIL (mother in law) came to you and your husband put her before you and the marriage.  If she is in dire need, I can imagine he was also putting her above himself?  Was the marriage already in trouble or showing signs of weakness before/during the care of his mother?  

 

Did you offer to lighten the load of caring for his mother?  Helping him help her?  Was the decision to take her in and care for her discussed prior, was a mutual agreement or a 'we are married, she's my mother, there's no discussion' type situation?

 

When you sought out the male friend, did you express that to your husband?  Were you upfront from the beginning about your needs and desires?  'Honey, I feel lonely, i need friends, this man feels like a friend and listens to me...etc"  Not syaing he would have been like, 'GREAT!  carry on then good wife." but at least it would have been an opportunity for expressing your feelings and concerns and an opportunity for him to take them seriously or dismiss them.  

 

 

My suggestion...at the very LEAST, while you are working on your marriage and in counseling, STOP ALL contact with the male friend.  I'm sorry, I nkow you still think he's your friend and this will be the test.  Tell him, "Friend, I am trying to work on my marriage.  My hubby has flaws, I have flaws.  you only point out my hubby's flaws and it's creating a lot of stress and anxiety in me.  I don't want that to create resentment in me towards you and if my husband has at least taken the biggest step he could in finally agreeing to see counseling, that I have been asking him to do, then I and he deserve my full, our full attention on the matter and our connection at the time being is a huge distraction and source of confusion and stress.  I don't know what the result will be but when I feel I can contact you again I will only if you can focus on me and my LIFE and all the good and bad in it and not just what you perceive as bad."

 

If he says, 'wow..that is difficult to hear but you are a dear friend and I would never want to impose any negative feelings or experiences on you, etc, etc, etc" then he is truly a friend.  

 

If he says, "what?  you have got to be kidding me.  What a jerk.  I can't believe you would give in to that fake, lying, bastard, etc etc etc." then you know he is just trying to get the satisfaction of stealing you away from another male before your hubby puts his seed in you and have you all to himself which shows what a selfish, egotistical jerk your 'friend' is.  

 

I say ALL of this having gone through something very similar but in reverse.  It was my husband having emotional affairs  and me becoming more cold and distant and resentful.  It also took a terrible thing to happen before my husband snapped out of it enough to agree to therapy.  We went, and were more honest with each other and things have turned around and gotten better for us in the past year.  I breath a sigh of relieve everyday I wake up with him.  I was ready to go back to the US with my kids and never look back.  What a terrible mistake that would have been for all of us.  Anyway but you cannot have ANY distractions or temptations during this process.  NONE.  A good friend will absolutely understand that.  A manipulator will not.  

 

Best of luck and success however that will look in the end.  

[regevdl]

And again.  I moved overseas and had to start all over in the friend category.  4 years in and i'm still lonely.  I get along with alot of people and enjoy their company but to date no real 'friends' I feel I can trust or rely on .  Still keeping my options open and hope alive.  

 

With that said, you and your husband haven't been good friends to one another so it's unrealistic that you will find any quality friends before you and your hubby sort this out.  Focus on your marriage.  Remember how to make each other laugh again and connect even in small ways and then you will have the standard to which to measure up any new potential friend matches.  Because any friend you seek out now or meet now will only fill superficial voids of emotional connection from the person you are suppose to be the MOST connected to.  

 

So....marriage first, friends later.  Don't do what you say your hubby did to you by putting his mother above all.  don't put the pressure of an outside person (male friend or future potential friend) ahead of fixing your marriage.  

 

 

correction:  I posted a prior message with more details and it wasn't immediately posted because it needed to be reviewed (don't worry.. .I have a good reputation!) lol  And then this one posted immediately which was supposed to be after the prior message.  So....if that caused any confusion, you know why.