Are Islamist terrorists really motivated by hostility toward American imperialism?

[Matt D]

This is such a common argument among libertarians and the MSM. It goes something like, "Of course Islamists hate America, we're always invading and bombing their country!" Sounds valid, but how much water does this theory hold? 

 

I was reading an essay by Bruce Bawer called "Crisis in Europe", published by Hudson Review 2006 (link to article on JSTOR below), which puts forward an interesting answer to this question. In it he draws on the scholar Bernard Lewis, author of The Crisis of Islam:

 

"It's not American imperialism or exploitation that provokes Islamists but rather the seductive appeal of American culture, their own attraction to [it] which appalls them.... while outright Russian imperialism--including the Soviet Union's harsh suppression of Islam within its borders--has been a far more detrimental factor in the lives of Muslims than anything America has ever done. Russia has been criticized by Muslim leaders far less than America has."

 

 

Bawer's essay focuses on the topic of Muslim non-integration into European culture. For this reason alone, it's well worth a read. Here's more from Bawer: 

 

 

 

[Mister Mister]

I'm not sure that the excerpt really argues the point in question. 

I'm no expert on the subject but I have some thoughts.  I have heard, that the US was popular in the Mid East in WWII, whAlereas England and France were not.  Obviously that has changed.  Most Muslims in the world are in Malaysia and Indonesia.  But that's not where radical Muslim terrorists are coming from.  Also they are not attacking Switzerland or Belgium or New Zealand as far as I know.

[WasatchMan]

Its hard to say. It sounds like a lot of it is religious, given they call it a "holy war" in the first place. 

 

However, I also know this quote is attributed to Osama bin Laden:

 

"We declared jihad against the U.S. government because the U.S. government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal, whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation."

 

[Bushrat]

Looking at the big picture I think this is really Islams struggle with modernity. Christianity went their bloody transformation during the 30 years war and other conflicts of the era. It was not a smooth transition, and neither will Islams transformation if it ever happens. I am not convinced that the majority of Islamic peoples are ready for an evolution into modernity, some of the key factors that the west had are missing from their systems currently. Only time will tell if they will make a transformation or we will end up in a continual culture clash.

[DCLugi]

[sb23rd]

Memory fails me now so I apologize, but I have a friend interested in this subject. Naturally a look back in history is a good starting point. He told me about a recent book (on his amazon wishlist) discussing how a so called fanatical sect within islam secured eventual leadership. This was at the expense of opposing forces of the Aristotle tradition like Avencena, those Islamic philosophers who made possible the revival of the classics in the west. I may be wrong but I recall Will Durants 'The Age of Faith' touching upon this and how the decline of the Islamic golden age coincides with the departure of some reason to absolute religiosity.


The book was on my Amazon wishlist all along. The Closing of the Muslim Mind: How Intellectual Suicide Created the Modern Islamist Crisis

[Matt D]

I'm not sure that the excerpt really argues the point in question. 

I'm no expert on the subject but I have some thoughts.  I have heard, that the US was popular in the Mid East in WWII, whAlereas England and France were not.  Obviously that has changed.  Most Muslims in the world are in Malaysia and Indonesia.  But that's not where radical Muslim terrorists are coming from.  Also they are not attacking Switzerland or Belgium or New Zealand as far as I know.

You're right, the excerpt is just what got me thinking about the question. I don't have any conclusive evidence one way or the other.

 

Yeah, I'm inclined to think it's all just politically motivated. The Islamic leaders can interpret religious text any way they please in order to spread hatred against whichever country with whom fighting would help best maintain their power. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if they hate us for our freedom or for our wars, because we know they hate freedom and love war.

[Mister Mister]

You're right, the excerpt is just what got me thinking about the question. I don't have any conclusive evidence one way or the other.

 

Yeah, I'm inclined to think it's all just politically motivated. The Islamic leaders can interpret religious text any way they please in order to spread hatred against whichever country with whom fighting would help best maintain their power. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if they hate us for our freedom or for our wars, because we know they hate freedom and love war.

Yes well the answer is, I don't think it's necessarily one or the other.  In it's megalomaniacal crusade to micro-manage the affairs of the whole world, the US Empire has picked a fight with people who love war as you said, don't fear death, and can't be intimidated or broken.

 

I always have to point out to conservatives also, that American foreign policy, in my opinion, is mostly driven by maintaining the petro-dollar.  So long as countries trade for oil in Federal Reserve Notes, the dollar has apparent value, which the government can use to its various ends.  But if oil-rich countries start to turn away from this practice, the dollar and by proxy, the mega-state we have, is doomed.  That's why Saddam Hussein and Muammar Qaddafi and Bashar al Assad are these HORRIBLE people, but the Saudi Royal Family are great and get to walk through the White House gardens holding hands with the President.

[sweathog1]

Would like to add my 2 cents worth if I may. Music  is a series of notes with intervals of silence between them, so I always look for what is missing. What I have not heard anywhere is that when Germany invited the Turks into Germany to work, they became very integrated with it's people. The young learned marketable skills, the Germans had boom times, everyone won. Not much difference than N. America in the 50's and the 60's with the European immigrants. I believe our current troubles have to do with the lack of accelerated returns for the amount of work done, the economy is all about diminishing returns for the amount of work done nowadays globally. Our young both old and new stock have very little work period.

 

I do not believe religion is the root cause

[B0b]

I'm not sure that the excerpt really argues the point in question. 

I'm no expert on the subject but I have some thoughts.  I have heard, that the US was popular in the Mid East in WWII, whAlereas England and France were not.  Obviously that has changed.  Most Muslims in the world are in Malaysia and Indonesia.  But that's not where radical Muslim terrorists are coming from.  Also they are not attacking Switzerland or Belgium or New Zealand as far as I know.

70 cases of terrorist plots in Switzerland have been reported. As for Belgium, it is a jihadist sanctuary.

[tullworthington]

The motivations are as old as history envy, power and greed. The terrorist leaders whip the masses into a frenzy of hate in order to gain control of the crowd. To me it is quite simple.

[Torero]

The question in the title uses "Islamist". So taking Western intervention (of course bad, immoral and unwanted) as cause would be strange.

 

It's rather based in the Quran itself. The verses where infidels should be killed are so numerous that even the most politically correct person cannot deny that islamism (wanting to make other people muslim, forcefully spreading islam) is a real part of the core of the religion.

[Cuffy_Meigs]

It tends to be those with the most hatred who have the most trouble expressing what it is they are hating. It seems so lodged into their subconcious that they cannot give voice to it.

 

For example in Northern Ireland both sides, when pressed as to why they hate each other so much are likely to fall back on some absurd historical event from hundreds of years ago; surely not the real reason for their grievances. Genuine racists seem to have no idea what they don't like about the other race. If they did then they'd probably have thought their way through it. Likewise for muslims a 'we hate America' slogan is just the easiest thing for them to process.

 

Sure there are those with direct and understandable reasons for hating 'America'. But for most I suspect it is just what their parents taught them... and all their friends parents did the same. I doubt that would change even if the US closed all its foreign bases, withdrew all ties with Israel and became isolationist.

[B0b]

 

 Likewise for muslims a 'we hate America' slogan is just the easiest thing for them to process.

 

We hate Europe seems even easier at the moment. What if they simply hated the non-muslim world?

[tullworthington]

Ethnic white Europeans must stop making excuses for the muslim immigrants. When we delve into all the possible reasons or motivations for the hatred against europeans, we enter analysis paralysis...and they keep coming.

 

If someone breaks in your home to kill your family and enslave your children....do you really need to understand there side of the story? No, you defend those you love...there is no need for debate or psychoanalysis.

 

The law of the jungle trumps philosophical arguments....especially when the other side can't even understand the argument. It's like trying to teach a dog geometry....it's a waste of time.

 

It is enough that you recognize evil and the threat that it poses and stand opposed. Spend your intellectual capital on changing those minds that can be convinced. This means communications on a level that your target audience..the masses.. Can understand. This means communicating based on appeals to emotion. This means communicating with propaganda. This means bending truths and breaking rules! I assure you when you come face to face with ethnic genocide...all that matters is who wins. There will be no bonus points or awards for good sportsmanship.

 

There is no justification for genocide and that is what now faces many ethnic Europeans. Genocide is a specific set of actions that are recognized by the world as evil...the are no mitigating factors...there is no reason for debate as to causality.

 

Name the evil - Genocide.

[inquirius]

From what I've read, many terrorists and influential imams are actually aware of the history behind the relevant Western imperialism, particularly the Sykes-Picot Agreement, but they choose to primarily blame the US...which makes sense if you're aware that Israel has been the biggest benefactor of US military "aid."  However, the SPA was a plan carried via the UK and France (Sykes = British diplomat, Picot = French diplomat) to divide up Palestine, so the original blame lies with with the British and French.  

 

Given that the US, France, and the UK have been arguably the main recipients of mainland terrorist attacks (Russia too), I think muslim terrorists are more aware of what their grievances are than the West gives them credit for. 

 

The problem with citing the evils of Western empires, however, is that Islam itself was the original aggressor against the West.  Muslims invaded as far as France and enslaved whites from Anatolia.  The Mongol Khans were mostly muslim as well and extorted Russian rulers for tribute for about five-hundred years, to mention nothing of the Chinese or Africa.

 

Stefan I think has a video called the Truth about the Crusades which covers this in more detail, but suffice to say, Islam has always been a religion of aggression and Islamic theocracies only ever submit other countries which are more powerful than they are, and even then begrudgingly.

 

Non-muslim nations need to recognize that Islam and its followers are a very serious threat.  The Islamic doctrine of taqiya and its imperial history, which predates the West's, demand that non-muslims cannot trust muslims in any way, and should be vigilant against immigration of muslims and the possibility of war.  And what Islam cannot accomplish through brute force, taqiya demands it accomplish through manipulation.

 

The West, especially Germany and its traitorous excuse for a chancellor, need to wake up.  Now.

[Donnadogsoth]

Has American imperialism been active for 1,400 years?