dsayers Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Is the goal bulk long term preservation of value? Or are people literally investing in things that would allow them to go to the store and settle their debt with precious metals? I want to look into this for myself and am not quite sure if I'm looking for bricks, coins, or what is the sensible thing to do. Any help would be appreciated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvaro Bernardes Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I'm interested as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laforge Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I want to look into this for myself and am not quite sure if I'm looking for bricks, coins, or what is the sensible thing to do. Any help would be appreciated. Hey i got a really odd upside-down Alice in Wonderland feeling when reading your post. Probably has to do with my path to FDR being completely different from yours. I went from: pretty hard core socialist -> to prepper, watching lots of Chris Duane vids -> to silver stacker -> to having internal conversations such as: "How would i react in a shtf situation where people ask me for help? * If i say: No, you should have prepared! I immediately isolate and endanger myself. * If i say: Yes, here you go! I become the quickly depleted idiot. * Only remaining and most logical choice would be to say: Let's trade. +1 for simple capitalism" Or so i was forced to admit. Basically this was the beginning of my deeper interest in searching for a more rigorous framework for thinking. Leading me here. Enough anecdote, in my tax farm the answer is easy: buy precious metal coins. - Most obvious reason: Coin sales are not taxed here, only the thin sliver of merchants profit gets taxed. At least for the time being.. it probably won't be long before it's called tax evader/terrorist money like bitcoin. - Another reason to go for coins is the smaller denomination. How are you going to pay for a bag of potatoes from your local farmer if all you have is a bar? Ask him for a metal saw, then snort up the filings? Anyway, silver is probably the best way to invest. Reasons: - The weight ratio of gold vs silver in the ground is approximately 1:10 but the price ratio is 1:62. So one gold coin trades for 62 silver ones. This is historically quite insane. - Great for beginners, you get lots of material in your hands giving you the feeling that you actually hold money for the first time. - Silver is used (wasted) in industry (more than gold). You find it in hospital tubes or even in socks due to anti-bacterial properties. - Nobody respects the metal as precious so the above-ground reserves are likely to be much smaller than gold. The most common & pure form of silver is the Canadian Maple Leaf. Properties: - one coin costs approx. 15 EUR/USD atm - sold in rolls of 25 pieces - 99,99% pure silver If you don't like the fact that the price-per Maple (or 99,9% Eagle) is higher than the spot price of silver, you could consider buying "junk silver". You'll end up carrying a mixture of about 70% silver with copper and nickel but those coins are more tough than the pure ones. Keep silver air tight or it will tarnish due to the minute amounts of sulfur in air. Gold doesn't have this problem. An obvious advantage of gold is the ease of transport. Is the goal bulk long term preservation of value? Or are people literally investing in things that would allow them to go to the store and settle their debt with precious metals? Selling precious metals makes no sense atm. Buy now and wait until these people change: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Is the goal bulk long term preservation of value? Or are people literally investing in things that would allow them to go to the store and settle their debt with precious metals? I want to look into this for myself and am not quite sure if I'm looking for bricks, coins, or what is the sensible thing to do. Any help would be appreciated. It's a hedge against inflation primarily. People have many forms of savings, but cash is well-known as something that loses value, bank accounts are only as stable as the banks (and have pretty low returns), stocks can be volatile, commodities are really volatile (oil futures anyone?), so precious metals are just another store of value to try. Those that take home delivery can even touch and see it, which has a special value all its own in this increasingly virtual world of value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayna j. Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I would say that both of those ( using precious metals as a long term "store of value", and to use it for exchange and to settle debts ) are reasons that people invest in precious metals. The particular form that you might invest in depends on your intent. If you primarily intend to use it as a long term store of value, it makes sense to invest in gold bars that are not easily divisible. If you want to have metals on hand for every day purchases, it might make sense to invest in bags of silver quarters or other silver coins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan C. Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Long-term preservation of value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyMellon Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Is the goal bulk long term preservation of value? Or are people literally investing in things that would allow them to go to the store and settle their debt with precious metals? I want to look into this for myself and am not quite sure if I'm looking for bricks, coins, or what is the sensible thing to do. Any help would be appreciated. One suggestion before buying any precious metals is to do more education outside of the precious metal circle and visit Martin Armstrong's website: http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/- has a wealth of important info and data. I wish I heard of him before 2011, which would have saved me a lot of money on my investments instead of following the ignorant advice of the precious metal/doom-porn crowd - I am sure Stefan would be getting a lot more denotations from me as a result. There will be a time for precious metals, but unlike the gold pushers might suggest, now is not the time. I used to follow intently Peter Schiff (years before I even came across Stefan), Jim Sinclair, David Morgan, Koos Jansen ; the GATA interviews on Greg Hunter, but have my eyes opened up after reading as much as I could on Martin Armstrong's site. It was like reading Dale Carnegie books and years later coming across Stefan, the world starts to make sense, because there are actual logical arguments, with reason and historical evidence, not just quasi facts and opinions. Martin's blogs and writings are not the most grammatically correct ones, but a man that sleeps 3 to 4 hours a day gets a pass from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ResidingOnEarth Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Great post by Laforge! One thing you didn't mention (which you're probably aware of) is that coins are preferable to bars for trading as the popular coins have well known physical properties (weight, sound, diameter, design etc), so they can be more easily verified when you are buying with them or selling for them. This is obviously very important if you actually want to buy a bag of potatoes with your precious metal money. It's not so easy to verify the gold/silver content bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuanM Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Is the goal bulk long term preservation of value? Or are people literally investing in things that would allow them to go to the store and settle their debt with precious metals? I want to look into this for myself and am not quite sure if I'm looking for bricks, coins, or what is the sensible thing to do. Any help would be appreciated. Bars are for preserving value, coins are for trading in a hyperinflation scenario. There will be a time for precious metals, but unlike the gold pushers might suggest, now is not the time. How will you know when the time is? As I understand it the argument for owning precious metals is basically an insurance policy - isn't it very difficult to predict when economic crashes will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdiaz03 Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 One suggestion before buying any precious metals is to do more education outside of the precious metal circle and visit Martin Armstrong's website: http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/- has a wealth of important info and data. I wish I heard of him before 2011, which would have saved me a lot of money on my investments instead of following the ignorant advice of the precious metal/doom-porn crowd - I am sure Stefan would be getting a lot more denotations from me as a result. There will be a time for precious metals, but unlike the gold pushers might suggest, now is not the time. I used to follow intently Peter Schiff (years before I even came across Stefan), Jim Sinclair, David Morgan, Koos Jansen ; the GATA interviews on Greg Hunter, but have my eyes opened up after reading as much as I could on Martin Armstrong's site. It was like reading Dale Carnegie books and years later coming across Stefan, the world starts to make sense, because there are actual logical arguments, with reason and historical evidence, not just quasi facts and opinions. Martin's blogs and writings are not the most grammatically correct ones, but a man that sleeps 3 to 4 hours a day gets a pass from me. Thanks for your post, Can you point out specific articles on that site that contrast with Peter Schiff view? I'm interested since all I have heard so far is Peter Schiff type arguments. Also for a SHTF scenarios maybe looking at countries that had major events might help. I'm thinking that the fiat currency will not go away. when the dollar collapses those in power will rush to print the "new dollar" and people will just loose wealth and carry on. I'm thinking Cuba post Revolution. The national currency was replaced and people adapt (suffering and surviving) Having skills that can be traded. (welding, machining, mechanic etc.) seems to help. Metals also help, I'm sure people will rush in to profit from converting your bars and coins into the fiat currency of the time. but once has to be careful with bans on metals. If the new government tries to confiscate the metal it will make it illegal to own and then it will he a hassle to trade it in the black market. For those who think that there aren't enough wolves to police the sheep, Its not the wolves, is the other sheep you have to worry about. Just my two cents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ResidingOnEarth Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Can you point out specific articles on that site that contrast with Peter Schiff view? I'm interested since all I have heard so far is Peter Schiff type arguments. EmptyMellon: I second this question! I may check out this guy's gold report when he releases it at the beginning of the new year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyMellon Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I cannot suggest enough the importance of reading Martin Armstrong's blog at Armstrong Economics; at least the blog posts from January 2015 to present - all the blogs as well as the monetary history of the world takes about two weeks (6 to 8 hours per day) depending on your reading speed - take notes, it helps. Reading his blogs helps to relieve the gold-centric myopia and improve one's understanding of the global economy, business cycles and the driving factors - it's there free of charge. Secondly, I would recommend watching an independent movie (came out in 2015) made by a German outfit that followed Martin Armstrong around the globe for 3+ years. The movie is called The Forecaster. It was this movie that really inspired me to take notice and ignore the nae-sayers. Bars are for preserving value, coins are for trading in a hyperinflation scenario. How will you know when the time is? As I understand it the argument for owning precious metals is basically an insurance policy - isn't it very difficult to predict when economic crashes will come. I do understand where you are coming from, but here are a few links to chew on, which counter the hyperinflation narrative. Reality of Hyperinflation - The External Alternative. Venesuela's Hyperinflation Predicting economic/market crashes has been Martin Armstrong's focus since the late 1970's when he developed a model known as ECM (Economic Confidence Model) and eventually created an intelligent computer program (known as Socrates), which has successfully predicted every major (and minor) market swing since the 1980s. He has spent something along the lines of $100 million of his own money just to analyze and document the collapse of the Roman silver monetary system (of 280 BC to 518 AD) - that chart did not come about based on someones opinions. Thanks for your post, Can you point out specific articles on that site that contrast with Peter Schiff view? I'm interested since all I have heard so far is Peter Schiff type arguments. EmptyMellon: I second this question! I may check out this guy's gold report when he releases it at the beginning of the new year. Here are a few of Martin Armstrong blogs which I think counter Peter's opinions regarding gold and the US dollar (go to the 2:25:00 mark for Peter Schiff commentary), and that it is safe to buy gold and the dollar will tank, when in fact the opposite is being forcast by Socrates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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