Searching for a particular therapy method....urgent

[regevdl]

Hi friends.  

 

My friend called me with some devastating revelations about her husband.  He and she need immediate therapy (they needed it before, obviously). 

 

I remember a few people on the show and even Stefan recommending a particular therapy (it goes by an acronym) that gets into past patterns of the family members (parents/grandparents) etc.  

 

Does anyone know what the acronym or the name of this therapy method is?  I cannot remember for the life of me! 

 

A million thanks!!

[TheRobin]

I think you mean IFS (which stands for Internal Family Systems). It's not exactly about family members though, but the idea is to look at one's own mental and emotional state as consisting of different "parts" (with their own ideas and wants and needs) and resolve problems that way.

It's just called internal family systems, because the psychologist who started it was a family therapist, so I guess, to him it made sense to look at all those "inner parts" as a kinda of "inner family" where one part has an influence on others and vice versa.

Also just to point out, to my knowledge there hasn't been a lot (or any) scientific studies showing the method is better or worse than any other one around and given that you say it's about a wife/husband, they might want to try a more specialised branch of psychology first that deals with those exact kinds of problems.

Anyway, hope that helped somewhat 

[AccuTron]

They can get immediate, free, effective, no appointment needed, high quality therapy right here.  Use your access for them to speak to this group in their own words about what's going on.  Seriously, try it.  It will probably blow their socks off.

 

At a minimum, they'll have done a large amount of very >>honest<< groundwork if they then go on to another therapy.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

Internal Family Systems therapy is probably what you're thinking of.

 

https://www.selfleadership.org/

[webdever]

Family Of Origin (FOO) work? or just Family Systems Therapy? IFS I think is more to do with examining multiple 'subpersonalities' inside your head, which are considered to be like a family and treated similar to how the Family Systems model treats an actual family.

[Kevin Beal]

IFS comes out of Family Systems Therapy, which explores dysfunction between family members – things like codependence, narcissistic triangulation, black sheeps, etc. The "internal" part is about exploring similar dynamics within the same psyche between different internalized aspects of the personality. Internal conflict being analogous to external conflict. If you feel excitement about seeing Star Wars tomorrow, and another part of you feels embarrassment about that excitement, then each is explored as if they were different personalities, each with interests of their own.

 

Actually exploring past patterns of parents and grandparents may not necessarily be an IFS thing. It may actually be a Jungian thing, which is what Stef's therapist was (mine too). In the extreme case, Jungians talk about the collective unconscious where trauma is shared in some unexplained mystical way between whole societies and the human race as a whole. In a less insane way, they talk about passing trauma from parent to child.

 

For example, seeing the narcissistic aspects of your own parent's personalities in the behavior of infants and children, resulting in displaced resentment directed unjustly at the child. The child, experiencing the abuse and neglect that is acted out in that resentment, is traumatized and gets stuck in arrested development, not growing out of their narcissistic phase.

 

If you go to an IFS therapist, they may not explore the past as much as the relationships between different aspects of your personality. Some (most?) will definitely explore it, but that's not IFS work, strictly speaking.

 

If it's a crisis management situation, where they expect to do only weeks or months of therapy, then therapy might not really be what you expect. They are going to focus on the present situation, and not help you gain moral clarity so much as make your life manageable in the present.

 

If they just want moral clarity, they might consider calling into the show. If they are committed to analysis (long term therapy), and they want to really explore the past, then maybe a Jungian would be a good choice. But as Robin rightly points out, the school of therapy is one of the least important factors.

 

For a good summary of what considerations really ought to be made, you should check out Max's research into that question here.

 

A quotation:

 

 

What not to Worry About
Perhaps somewhat surprisingly, research suggests that none of the following factors are correlated with the effectiveness of a therapist:

• Age (1)
• Gender (1)
• Degree level (master's versus doctorate) (1)
• Years of experience: even doctorate-level therapists with decades of experience overall tend to perform similarly to graduate students just starting their training (1)
• Theoretical orientation: despite the academic hype about "empirically supported treatments," numerous meta-analyses have failed to find significant differences in effectiveness between different theories of psychotherapy (e.g., 2, 3). The therapist's preferred theory contributes a mere 1% towards the outcome of the therapy (2).
• How well the therapist adheres to the protocol or treatment plan of a particular therapy modality (10).

[Mister Mister]

Also I would recommend "The Body Keeps the Score", and "Taming your Inner Critic", both by pioneering IFS therapists, for an introduction to the ideas.

[regevdl]

Thank you all very much.   they need an actual therapist ASAP.  They are not 'philosophcially' inclined that as great as this group is....they are in a 'emotional heart attack' and need emergency help by a therapist.  I think once they get that sorted out they can use this group to maintain and expand their enlightenment.  I have been trying to use what I know and guide them here with little success. Some people are determined to learn the hard way I guess.  

 

Thank you all very very much!  

[regevdl]

Ok, I updated her and am still helping her find other avenues of therapy that might suit them.  I will fill in the blanks only for the purpose to see if there are other suggested avenues that would be suitable.  I am still in shock and cannot imagine what my friend is going through.  We are 6000 miles away from each other and 7 hours apart and hate that we cannot speak directly and spontaneously as much as we would like.  

 

I will brush over some of the details as a lot of missed 'red flags' from the past are now becoming quite obvious.  I pushed back on them at the time but he's not my husband and she didn't push back hard enough apparently.  Anyway, 

 

the husband was in the Navy.  He had a higher ranking position than others, but wasn't top level or anything.  according to him, he gave his security clearance 'key' to some of his subordinates in circumstances involving access to the internet.  He was charged with child pornography and kicked out.  He claimed that it was one of his subordinates and that he took the fall for it because cases like those don't get very far in the military and he would be punished anyway since he gave his security access to lower ranks etc  bla bla bla.  

 

I was already over seas when they met but when she told me this I pushed back.  I told her that sounds sufficient but there are still holes in the story.  I was only starting in the world of philosophy and FDR at the time and god how I wish I knew as much as I know now.  But I told her to follow up on this story because that's a serious 'fall' to take for something he claims he didn't do.  I mean, stealing a candy bar and paying a fine...sure, but being charged as a child sex predator for 'bureaucratic convenience' seems a bit far fetched.  She took my warning but not much came up and I took that as a sign as everything checking out in the end.  

 

They got married, now have a son who is just over a year and she is pregnant with the second.  He was married before.  My friend was aware of this.  But small things would comeup that were sort of disasterous or cumbersome and only then he would 'come clean'.  It's like he has this habit of ommission rather than being forthcoming.  He doesn't outright lie, he just omits and my friend is like shooting in the dark trying to ask questions to see if she is missing something.  

 

So, the other day a swarm of cops came to their house to raid it and take their electronics.  She was blindsided.  Apparently, he left out that he was actually registered as a sex offender.  I guess that seems obvious now but he made it seem like the military made a deal that if he agreed to get booted out, nothing more would be done.  he would lose his benefits, etc and the military will keep a clear reputation of sorts and avoid an embarrassing trial for both parties.  That's his representation of it.  

 

But now, on of the investigators told her that he is a registered sex offender and he has to report to her (the investigator) in person once a year.  So that also means he is being tracked.  He uses some anonymous router device, which many people do but it makes sense now why he uses it.  :-(  They found that he visited child porn sites AND saved them on an external saving device (maybe like a memory stick of sorts?)  That was crucial to their case because he claimed to them that because he uses this open wi fi, anonymous router device that anyone could plug into their IP which means if they looked at child porn, it would show up as HIS IP address.  seems legit and sufficent, right...but of course to save it on the external device like a memory stick means he physially has to do that which pinned him for the crime.

 

He took a plolygraph test and passed.  He doesn't seem to pose a threat in terms of getting aroused around children or while playing with children, etc, so I guess that's a good sign.  Most of his viewings were of young girls.  

 

I guess the investigation will take months, sifting through his electronic history to see if he will be charged with anything.  My friend is devastated, emotional and going back and forth between trying to be realistic and rational and in total denial.  She has had a history of falling for cheap lines from men in the past that I have done my best to help her avoid and overcome.  But seems this one slipped through and why I hate being so far from her.  I've told her she needs therapy just for the good of it because her father was an alcoholic and was arrested on her 16th birthday and I know that has put her in a 'groundhog's day of sorts which she has ovecome to some degree but she needs a professional to sort through some of these deep layers of pain and trauma and mistrust.  

 

So for now he is free until further notice.  I told her he needs immediate therapy for his fetish to get to the root and you both need therapy for your marriage. and it won't hurt if she also got individual help as she minimalizes these red flags as i am sure was imprinted on her by her mother missing or ignoring the father's red flags of alcoholism.  

 

That's what I know as of now of the situation. I am sharing as much philosophy and Socratic reasoning with her but professional intervention is an absolute must.  She needs to think what this means when her children start school in a few years.  Howdoes a registered sex offender need to operate if they are one of the parents?!  That won't be easy on them, especialy the kids.  I told he she will be judged and the kids will be judged for this and they had no part in it.  They have to overcome it now before it also catches them out of the blue.  

 

I was pretty frank with her, gave her encouragement where I saw it, of course, but I had to light the fire in her belly because she is someone that can easily put on those rosey lenses.  

[regevdl]

Much of what I stated was stated with berevity, including the choice of words I used, since I am focusing much of my time trying to help my friend over the phone with a 7 hour time difference and raising my kids and working and she is as well.  So I do appreciate your feedback but it seems to be arguments of semantics.  As I agree and have communicated with her that the children have already been exploited in order for the porn to be consumed in the first place.  

 

And I re-read my original statement about how he passed the poly and he doesn't get aroused by touching children, etc.... and that's a 'good sign'.  Those are her words.  Sorry...I didn't make that clear. I agree that he STILL poses a threat even by consuming this filth and what I am trying to get my friend to understand that she cannot split hairs on this issue.  The children have already been raped/abused/exploited for this to be available for consumption, thus creating a demand which traps the children already in it and puts more children at risk.

 

My friends is going back and forth between total disgust and false dichomities like, "I don't want to see him as a horrible monster".  That is why she needs professional help NOW and I am doing what I can to snap her out of this cognitive dissonance as much as possible.  

 

I posted this in hopes to get useful feedback of other types of therapies that might be able to fit their situation, rather than discuss what we would or wouldn't call things.  I too am deeply disturbed by this.  She updated me that her son is with her parents for now so she can have a calm and relaxed mind while speaking to her husband about this without having a small child as a distraction or witness it and to keep him away from the father because we and she recognizes that even if the plolygraph came up 'clean'....she is still not comfortable with her son around him, which I support her decision in that.  

 

He has some skeletons and I need to prepare her to let them out so she knows what she's dealing with and where to go from there.  This is the most f'd up thing I have ever encountered and feel uprepared myself and why I am pushing her to get to a therapist (both of them) now.

[regevdl]

Thank you

 

When I wrote my first reply I assumed that you were probably using those terms for short hand sake, though I wasn't completely sure. My intention was not to derail your thread at all - I just knew that if there was some chance these were things you had not considered it might flip the scrip in your dialogue with your friend proving to be valuable insight. Does that make sense? I am very glad that you've suggested therapy to your friend as I would agree this is a crisis that needs addressing. I am also glad to hear more clarification from you about things that weren't too clear in the first account of events so thank you for that.

On a more personal level this story relates very much to my life, my father was busted for the same thing after I found it on his computer. Obviously this was hugely traumatic. My mother did not handle the situation at all, and we never saw a therapist but if my mother had someone in her life pushing us to get professional help I can imagine it would have helped a lot. So my initial reply was just raising the obvious concerns for the children which I hope I've made myself more clear as to why I took that approach.

Thank you for everything.  I will admit and apologize that I was a bit defensive and 'rushed'.  But after I had calmed down which was after I had a voice-to-voice chat with my friend, I did refer to your words and proper semantics!    It hit her deep and she got defensive but she  got it in the end.  So it was helpful, thank you and thank you for your patience in my rush and defensiveness.  I think my mind was on one track....to find therapy suggestions...that I closed myself off to peripheral suggestions as well and I greatly appreciate you being patient with me and not taking it personally.  

 

Your approach was great and I am glad you didn't shy away, thank you for staying firm so it finally got through to me.    It was all perfect!

[Copper_Heart]

he passed the poly and he doesn't get aroused by touching children, etc.... and that's a 'good sign'.  Those are her words.

 

Polygraph is hoax. It means absolutely nothing that he have passed it.

 

Your poor friend has a history with bad men.

 

I would recommend this people http://coherencetherapy.org/contact.htm. There therapy is based on modern reaserch and appears to be exceptionally effective. In case of IFS they themselves seam to admit that it is effective, but I expect coherence therapy be more advanced.

 

Just in case she does not have counselor already.

 

Best wishes.

[regevdl]

Polygraph is hoax. It means absolutely nothing that he have passed it.

 

Your poor friend has a history with bad men.

 

I would recommend this people http://coherencetherapy.org/contact.htm. There therapy is based on modern reaserch and appears to be exceptionally effective. In case of IFS they themselves seam to admit that it is effective, but I expect coherence therapy be more advanced.

 

Just in case she does not have counselor already.

 

Best wishes.

 

I too felt uneasy about the polygraph.  And the investigator even admitted that the questions were very one-tracked.  That had only to do about touching, not if he got aroused looking.  I don't say that as a way to differentiate the evil of it but it made me think of the famous Subway guy, Jared.  If I recall (and I might be forgetting or missing vital facts, so I apologize) but didn't it start out as his friend or agent supplying him with images and then later finding young girls?  

 

I just keep stressing to my friend to find out the risks of 'looking' turning into touching or soliciting.   In any case, thank you very much for your suggestion.  I will pass this along.  I know she was looking for a therapist and then the holidays came along so I don't think she has had a chance to actually go to an appointment but I will follow up with her after the holiday buzz calms down when I know she will have more information to share.  Thank you again!

[regevdl]

This makes me SO happy. I can't begin to explain how much my inner child sings when reading you used RAPE instead of porn to describe this evil. I WISH there was someone in my mom's life when I was going through this to say "You CAN NOT be indifferent to this, this is NOT a case where you should "stand by your man" WAKE UP, be brave and do what's right and protect your children." Thank you for being a moral voice in this woman's life, it means a lot to me. But more importantly it will mean the world for her children. 

 

I agree that this is a deal breaker.  I have told her he committed FRAUD to her since he was not fully forthcoming with the information before the marriage or after.  And even after, he still continued to lie.  I told her to be prepared to be a single mother because since this is his 2nd offense (and they found marijuana plants in their house) that he will spend time in jail.  She and even he is fully aware of the typical treatment 'his kind' receive in jail by other inmates.  He fears he will be killed.  I told her that is a very likely possibility and she needs to sit and absorb that.  

 

She worried me because her tone was very detached when we discussed this.  To be 'fair' she was about to enter a holiday lunch with her girlfriends and was with her son so I can understand it was NOT the appropriate time for her to sit and think about it but next time we chat I want to make sure she comes to terms with this.  

 

I don't want to make the decision for her but I am trying my best to show her that divorce or possibly annulment  ( i know that's silly since they have kids but I feel this would be a case where it would be appropriate) is the answer in this situation.  He was fraudulant and she keeps talking about getting back to normal.  I told her there is no more normal that you previously recognized.  That's over, gone, vanished.  There is only a new normal that is either how to manage your new husband with your new problems or the new normal with being a single mother and the husband in jail or dead or out of the picture.  The life you knew before was a fantasy and you can never return to it.  It no longer exists.  

 

her parents are trying to support him since he has absolutely no one but the rest of her family are distant and cut off ties with him.  Her brother in law (sister's hubby) was abused by a relative so clearly he wants nothing to do with this guy.  I told her too that she must prepare for those things.  If she deicides to ride this out (god I hope not!) she will put a terrible wedge between her and her family and her family has been very loving and supportive and it would be a shame to put up with this creep at the cost of cutting out her more supportive, caring, honest family.  

 

My husband agrees that she should divorce and sue for fraud.  I would strip him of any legality of my children.  My friend has always seen me as the emotional extremists yet she comes to me with all of her problems.  So I explain to her that she comes to me because I have a fairly good track record of keeping sociopaths away from me because I am VERY clear with who I am so they stay away.  But she doesn't have the guts to be like that as she puts it.  

 

I also keep railing her that 'how BAD does it have to get to 'be that extreme'?"  She struggles with this question.  I told her this is almost the worst.  The worst is him actually going out and finding a young girl...so with that possibility, you are put a LOT on this bet.  

 

She is considering divorce but right now trying to take it day by day.  Which again, I agree with.  If she divorces, I want her to be in a clear state of mind.  He is already dead to me.  I haven't said that to her but will eventually.  This guy defrauded my friend and because of that created 2 children who now have to live either with a dad in jail, a dead dad who was in jail, a dad they have some connection with but who is a sex offender, or, or, or.  I will never forgive him, even if she does.  

Polygraph is hoax. It means absolutely nothing that he have passed it.

 

Your poor friend has a history with bad men.

 

I would recommend this people http://coherencetherapy.org/contact.htm. There therapy is based on modern reaserch and appears to be exceptionally effective. In case of IFS they themselves seam to admit that it is effective, but I expect coherence therapy be more advanced.

 

Just in case she does not have counselor already.

 

Best wishes.

She does have a history of bad men which I helped her realize for herself over the years, however, I didn't realize how much she relied on me because I was already overseas when she chose this one.  I pressed her on the red flags but again, much harder to make an impact being so far away and not always talking in 'real time'.  (email, voice messages, etc)

 

However I pressed her again on this pattern and her mother's pattern (marrying an alcoholic) and she shared that her mother has finally opened up about her personal experience with her husband's (my friend's dad) alcoholism.  My friend was blown away.  I told her that's great that her mother finally shared her experience but it probably would have helped more if she shared them much earlier on.  My friend agreed.  

 

She now is reeling back and finally seeing the pattern in her choice of men.  So she knows this is a core subject to sort out with a therapist. Thank you again for your therapy suggestion.  I already emailed her the link. 

[Copper_Heart]

He was fraudulant and she keeps talking about getting back to normal.

 

I hope she does not fall into denial. I am glad there people out there like you who really forth coming. I want to give my perspective on what is happening in her head even though it is may be nothing new to you at this point.

 

What is she witnessing right now it is something similar to death of her husband, except worse. That fate that is forthcoming for him is actually worth then death, because from that point he is an outcast without redemption of greatest degree and a lot of people actually want him dead. But in her mind there still lives image of her husband, I do not know what this image was, but it definitely was not that. Empathy for him is still alive in her brain, just moment ago he was just a normal human being. Now she is torn apart by the reality and the images past, back when everything was "normal" and simple. From he point of view, and I am just describing possible thought process:

 

- Her husband is suffering fate worth then death.

- She was married to sex offender, possibly a pedophile.

 

I find the juxtaposition of his to identities in her mind to be extremely important. And of course:

 

- The implications are huge for her and her children. This is not a thing one wants to tell, but it is one every one around her will find crucial.

 

Of course she wants back. Would be strange if she would not. Right now she need to start a grieving process as peaceful as such case allows for it and surrounded with support, which she gladly is. She, I am afraid, will be dragged through this without a chance to recover.

 

I hope this is of any use. I think almost can not be rational about this considering the shock.

 

Please take good care of your self and your friend. I am atheist, but god bless you.

[madman]

good job being persistent that your friend get therapy. what a mess. my heart goes out to you and your friend but especially her kids. if evidence has been found on a thumb drive or memory stick or whatever I shouldn't think it won't take long for the husband to get arrested. matter of fact, if that's the case I can't see why he hasn't been arrested already. maybe I read these posts wrong. I would think it's a challenge to get good info out of your friend cuz it's such a touchy subject. if your friend is in w central florida then I would recommend my therapist. she specializes in childhood stuff, works with abused children, has at least 2 other women working for her that work with kids and has been to court on the children's behalf. she's not a lawyer but she knows some of the ins and outs of working with the state. she also understands addiction (including sex addiction)/codependency very well. I would think her perfect whereas my last therapist would be likely worse than bad as he specializes in family counseling. his office is covered with pics of his happy family. he's a big champion of the foo so he would likely push her to stand by her man as it's the Christian thing to do. I've heard him touted as the best therapist around. the very first thing my current therapist would do is work on the kids' safety. if this guy's a perp and it sounds like he is then the kids are certainly at risk. this puts your friend in a spot cuz now that she's confided in you she will eventually realize she is ultimately responsible for the welfare of her children. she can cry foul all she wants but sooner or later she will realize. I wish you all the best. let me know if you want contact info for your friend, gary