Mantis Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Oh no, it looks like Atheism is actually a form of mild to high-functioning Autism. This isn't good for the Atheist community. What if being an Atheist is actually a result of being mildly Autistic? That would be ground breaking! The Autistic Atheist. Then tie in the ACE connection. I imagine autism is very traumatic, and in my opinion could be considered adverse. "In 2011, the University of Boston published a study on the correlation between atheism and high-functioning/mild autism.[1][2] On September 19, 2011, the Discover Magazine website had an article indicating that there were empirical results showing a positive correlation between atheism and high functioning autism and the article declared" http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_autism 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koroviev Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Oh no, it looks like Atheism is actually a form of mild to high-functioning Autism. This isn't good for the Atheist community. What if being an Atheist is actually a result of being mildly Autistic? That would be ground breaking! The Autistic Atheist. Then tie in the ACE connection. I imagine autism is very traumatic, and in my opinion could be considered adverse. "In 2011, the University of Boston published a study on the correlation between atheism and high-functioning/mild autism.[1][2] On September 19, 2011, the Discover Magazine website had an article indicating that there were empirical results showing a positive correlation between atheism and high functioning autism and the article declared" http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_autism you seem to keep making these very antagonistic claims about atheists but you never actually seem to make any arguments also this is called ad hominem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCali Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Religious humans are less inteligent on average. Atheism 1-0 theism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Oh no, it looks like Atheism is actually a form of mild to high-functioning Autism. This isn't good for the Atheist community. What if being an Atheist is actually a result of being mildly Autistic? That would be ground breaking! The Autistic Atheist. Then tie in the ACE connection. I imagine autism is very traumatic, and in my opinion could be considered adverse. "In 2011, the University of Boston published a study on the correlation between atheism and high-functioning/mild autism.[1][2] On September 19, 2011, the Discover Magazine website had an article indicating that there were empirical results showing a positive correlation between atheism and high functioning autism and the article declared" http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_autism http://alumni.berkeley.edu/california-magazine/winter-2015-breaking-news/giving-credence-why-so-much-reported-science-wrong-and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AynRand Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 What are you implying by your post? Assuming what you are saying is true is believing in a deity without sufficient evidence justified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 What are you implying by your post? Assuming what you are saying is true is believing in a deity without sufficient evidence justified? I think he's saying that autism is a natural defense against manipulation and abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebeardslastcall Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 When you're immune to social insanity I'd expect rationality to do better. I would see this as not a problem or knock on atheism, but a knock on theism for being more about social manipulation, which autistics are immune to, than it is about rationality. Why would an autistic person be less rational than the average person who is susceptible to social manipulations? And yes, abused people, having seen the pain of violent and irrational ways, tend to want peace and rationality a bit more if they don't become a victim of it. The implication of the OP is that atheism is the result of a mental deficiency, but I see no such case made. That would be like suggesting the autistic savant who is super good at math should have their math invalidated, cause they've got a problem. Seems like a pretty flawed argument if that's what someone is going for. Also it makes no actual real arguments against atheism, but merely means to make it seem dumb by association with a 'negative condition', which is more manipulative bullshit frankly. Edit: Also your title calls every atheist autistic, which is a baseless accusation by a mere correlation. Saying something is a form of something else because of a correlation doesn't make sense and is just an unintelligent mocking of a group that doesn't make sense. Are civil engineering doctorates awarded a form of mozzarella cheese consumption? They're correlated too. When you're surrounded by idiots then a lack of socializing is a mark of sanity and intelligence. Two provocative and negative posts against atheism, just trolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AynRand Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I think he's saying that autism is a natural defense against manipulation and abuse. I see what you did there... (smiley face) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpahmad Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 What the hell is wrong with you Mantis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A4E Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Do atheists now need to go declare their disability benefits that will be collected from theists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCapitalism Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 ....therefore God exists! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan C. Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Religion is a form of psychosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCLugi Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I'm always puzzled when a theist denies their faith and turns to studies and tests and evidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNlul77 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Oh no, it looks like Atheism is actually a form of mild to high-functioning Autism. This isn't good for the Atheist community. What if being an Atheist is actually a result of being mildly Autistic? That would be ground breaking! The Autistic Atheist. Then tie in the ACE connection. I imagine autism is very traumatic, and in my opinion could be considered adverse. "In 2011, the University of Boston published a study on the correlation between atheism and high-functioning/mild autism.[1][2] On September 19, 2011, the Discover Magazine website had an article indicating that there were empirical results showing a positive correlation between atheism and high functioning autism and the article declared" http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_autism I read the information from the link you provided and im still reading the citations/studies contain within it, its very interesting actually, thanks for that im learning a lot about autism, Every day is a school day. As yet, i dont have enough information to form an informed opinion about the studies, but what is clear, from your post and from what ive read so far, is that you haven't read the information, and that your ignorant of HFA. The terms "I imagine", "In my opinion" are subjective. It's evident that your searching for something to justify, in your own mind, your irrational belief/"faith" in a deity/god by attempting to discredit/disporove the atheist position, this study isnt the answer. No amount of these type of studies will ever undermine the nature of reality and as such they'll never be proof of the existence of a deity/god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wuzzums Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Don't feed the trolls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 Hello my friends. Well certainly not all of you are Autistic. I hope you at least got a kick out of my polarizing post. Not all atheists are Autistic, but the majority of Autistic people are atheists. If I was an Atheist and I knew that my ideology was prevalent within the autism demographic I would say wow that's a strange correlation. What is it about people with neurological disorders that cause them to be atheists. The connection between autism and atheism is enough for me to want to start backing away from that ideology, unless I really admire Autistic people and strive to be like them. Now guys I've rounded up some quotes that I find interesting and hard to explain. Some of the more difficult quotes are from a so called prominent atheist by the name of PZ Myers, maybe you guys know him? (I don't know how influential he actually is, so forgive me if he's not credible) "I will make a prediction, right here and now.... The number of people identifying as atheists will stagnate or even shrink, because organized atheism is happily in the process of destroying itself with regressive social attitudes, scandals, and their bizarre focus on irrelevant metaphysical differences that don’t help people... Unless we change. I don’t know that we can." - PZ Myers "If we're going to expand our base and we're going to draw in more people to recognize the virtues of living in a secular world, we need to appeal to more than just that geek and nerd subset of the population. We need to have a wider base. ...I seriously believe that we're on the cusp of a crisis. We're not there yet but it's looming in front of us. Will we adapt and thrive and change the world? Or will we remain an avocation for a prosperous and largely irrelevant subset of the population? Will we become something more than a scattered society of internet nerds? That's what we have to do." - PZ Myers "So, to answer clueless thick-skulled Christian idiot’s question, I don’t object to bestiality in a very limited set of specific conditions, but do not support it in any way" - PZ Myers "It's by no means a scientific test, but it is interesting to note the coincidence that 59 of the virulent atheists over at Dr. PZ Myers place report an average score on the Asperger's Quotient test of 27.8. And this does not include the two individuals who actually have Asperger's but did not report any test results." "Sexual relationships between humans and animals come as such a shock to people, but it doesn’t to me. There can be very deep, meaningful relationships between humans and their pets... That said, I remind you that my position isn’t based on my own personal wants. I just don’t see any reason to ban it other than the same reason things like homosexuality and sodomy were banned: it’s icky. I think it’s bad practice to put social taboos into legislature when no actual logical argument can be made against it." - PZ Myers daughter "A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion". - Sir Francis Bacon "Most societies or communities that have espoused atheistic beliefs have not survived more than a century...What I found was the complete lack of a single case of a secular population, community or movement that would just manage to retain replacement level." - Michael Blume, a researcher at the University of Jena in Germany on the fertility rate of atheistic societies "An atheist’s most embarrassing moment is when he feels profoundly thankful for something, but can’t think of anybody to thank for it" - Mary Anne Vincent [45] "These days, barely a week passes without the emergence of yet more evidence that atheists are the most irritating people on Earth." - the atheist Brendan O'Neill, The Telegraph, "How Atheists Became the Most Colossally Smug and Annoying People on the Planet", August 14th, 2013 "One of the things that made me suffer no regret when I was called away from the cramped intellectual jail of atheism into a wider and more wonderful world, was my growing conviction that my fellow atheists were shallow, men without insight into real human nature." - ex-atheist and science fiction writer John C. Wright In a 2014 New Republic article entitled "The Closed Mind of Richard Dawkins: His atheism is its own kind of narrow religion", the atheist philosopher John Gray wrote: "Today secular faith is ebbing, and it is the apostles of unbelief who are left stranded on the beach." - atheist philosopher John Gray, The Guardian, March 14, 2008 [78] "The atheist, lesbian and leftist Greta Christina told the journalist Chris Mooney on the Point of Inquiry podcast, "there isn't one emotion" that affects atheists "but anger is one of the emotions that many of us have ...[it] drives others to participate in the movement". " the age at which most people become atheists indicates that it is almost never an intellectual decision, but an emotional one." - Theodore Beale aka Vox Day So guys I wish you all the best. It's unfortunate that these things exist in the Atheist community. I don't hate you guys, I'm just looking for the truth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koroviev Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Hello my friends. Well certainly not all of you are Autistic. I hope you at least got a kick out of my polarizing post. Not all atheists are Autistic, but the majority of Autistic people are atheists. If I was an Atheist and I knew that my ideology was prevalent within the autism demographic I would say wow that's a strange correlation. What is it about people with neurological disorders that cause them to be atheists. The connection between autism and atheism is enough for me to want to start backing away from that ideology, unless I really admire Autistic people and strive to be like them. Now guys I've rounded up some quotes that I find interesting and hard to explain. Some of the more difficult quotes are from a so called prominent atheist by the name of PZ Myers, maybe you guys know him? (I don't know how influential he actually is, so forgive me if he's not credible) "I will make a prediction, right here and now.... The number of people identifying as atheists will stagnate or even shrink, because organized atheism is happily in the process of destroying itself with regressive social attitudes, scandals, and their bizarre focus on irrelevant metaphysical differences that don’t help people... Unless we change. I don’t know that we can." - PZ Myers "If we're going to expand our base and we're going to draw in more people to recognize the virtues of living in a secular world, we need to appeal to more than just that geek and nerd subset of the population. We need to have a wider base. ...I seriously believe that we're on the cusp of a crisis. We're not there yet but it's looming in front of us. Will we adapt and thrive and change the world? Or will we remain an avocation for a prosperous and largely irrelevant subset of the population? Will we become something more than a scattered society of internet nerds? That's what we have to do." - PZ Myers "So, to answer clueless thick-skulled Christian idiot’s question, I don’t object to bestiality in a very limited set of specific conditions, but do not support it in any way" - PZ Myers "It's by no means a scientific test, but it is interesting to note the coincidence that 59 of the virulent atheists over at Dr. PZ Myers place report an average score on the Asperger's Quotient test of 27.8. And this does not include the two individuals who actually have Asperger's but did not report any test results." "Sexual relationships between humans and animals come as such a shock to people, but it doesn’t to me. There can be very deep, meaningful relationships between humans and their pets... That said, I remind you that my position isn’t based on my own personal wants. I just don’t see any reason to ban it other than the same reason things like homosexuality and sodomy were banned: it’s icky. I think it’s bad practice to put social taboos into legislature when no actual logical argument can be made against it." - PZ Myers daughter "A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion". - Sir Francis Bacon "Most societies or communities that have espoused atheistic beliefs have not survived more than a century...What I found was the complete lack of a single case of a secular population, community or movement that would just manage to retain replacement level." - Michael Blume, a researcher at the University of Jena in Germany on the fertility rate of atheistic societies "An atheist’s most embarrassing moment is when he feels profoundly thankful for something, but can’t think of anybody to thank for it" - Mary Anne Vincent [45] "These days, barely a week passes without the emergence of yet more evidence that atheists are the most irritating people on Earth." - the atheist Brendan O'Neill, The Telegraph, "How Atheists Became the Most Colossally Smug and Annoying People on the Planet", August 14th, 2013 "One of the things that made me suffer no regret when I was called away from the cramped intellectual jail of atheism into a wider and more wonderful world, was my growing conviction that my fellow atheists were shallow, men without insight into real human nature." - ex-atheist and science fiction writer John C. Wright In a 2014 New Republic article entitled "The Closed Mind of Richard Dawkins: His atheism is its own kind of narrow religion", the atheist philosopher John Gray wrote: "Today secular faith is ebbing, and it is the apostles of unbelief who are left stranded on the beach." - atheist philosopher John Gray, The Guardian, March 14, 2008 [78] "The atheist, lesbian and leftist Greta Christina told the journalist Chris Mooney on the Point of Inquiry podcast, "there isn't one emotion" that affects atheists "but anger is one of the emotions that many of us have ...[it] drives others to participate in the movement". " the age at which most people become atheists indicates that it is almost never an intellectual decision, but an emotional one." - Theodore Beale aka Vox Day So guys I wish you all the best. It's unfortunate that these things exist in the Atheist community. I don't hate you guys, I'm just looking for the truth. if you are looking for the truth state your argument and have a logical and rational discussion with people. Being antagonistic and using logical fallacies to get a rise out of people then sitting back trying to be innocent is no where even close to "looking for the truth." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccuTron Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 "organized atheism" is like saying "organized MGTOW." I think it should read "organized ego." The SJW arises like a weed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 So guys I wish you all the best. It's unfortunate that these things exist in the Atheist community. I don't hate you guys, I'm just looking for the truth. Fair enough, what are the tools you use to evaluate the truth of what you experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 if you are looking for the truth state your argument and have a logical and rational discussion with people. Being antagonistic and using logical fallacies to get a rise out of people then sitting back trying to be innocent is no where even close to "looking for the truth."@Koroviev - hi Koro, I'm sorry you feel antagonized. I made a post about the connection between ACE and converting to atheism and the responses I received were loud mouth puppy yapping, a bunch on men (boys) that want to sit online and "spin their intellectual wheels" all day long going no where. No one who is an Atheist on this board is seeking any kind of contrary information about their ideology. I'm certain that what happens here everyday is hours of people dancing around and confirming their own theories with each other. Truth isn't at this board, so I'm sorry. My argument is that Atheism is not the logical, reasonable, scientific, empirical, winning, ideology that the adherents are claiming. My argument is that atheism comes from adverse childhood experiences, trauma, and other kinds of distorted winnowing that we find in the modern world. I back this up with multiple sources of information. The kicker is, that I know that neither atheism or theism is provable, so arguing is fing pointless. If I was to argue on here about what is true I'd need to stick a gun down my throat. I can't sit here and spin my wheels for the rest of my life because this is where key strokes go to die. All I'm arguing is that atheist don't have any proof, but their foundation is "we have proof", I'm saying no you don't have proof, and hey look at how dysfunctional atheism really is regardless if it's true or not. From what I understand atheists don't like rationality. So please don't claim that I can come here and have a man's conversation in the midst of a cackle of yapping boys. I mean the childishness reeks here. Koro, you said I use logical Fallacies. If I did, that's because I saw first hand that every one else here uses the same fallacy that they accuse me of while accusing me. Everyone here is rampantly using Fallacies, so I'm simply adhering to the present standards here, I'm sorry. Fair enough, what are the tools you use to evaluate the truth of what you experience?@shirgall - hi, for intellectual enquiries I use the seven liberal arts, the trivium and quadrivium. However regarding atheism and theism, my understanding is that neither side can be proven. You must pick a side. It cannot be argued. Each side is a belief and is based on faith. Therefore, all one can do is state their beliefs and their claims and their theories, and others can only disagree or agree. No one can sit there prove either atheism or theism, and the end of the day either side is accepted on faith, and at the end of the day which faith you choose is based on emotion, regardless of how logical one claims to be. Therefore shirgall, I don't use any tools when it comes to atheism or theism, because this is a matter where tools don't apply. I guess you do need to read, so the tool of reading would be all you need. At the end of the day the decision is based on emotion and a complex set of psychological factors and life experiences. Logic, reason, science, proof, doesn't apply and never will. It will be, for the rest of time, Faith. All one can do is pick a side. I read the information from the link you provided and im still reading the citations/studies contain within it, its very interesting actually, thanks for that im learning a lot about autism, Every day is a school day. As yet, i dont have enough information to form an informed opinion about the studies, but what is clear, from your post and from what ive read so far, is that you haven't read the information, and that your ignorant of HFA. The terms "I imagine", "In my opinion" are subjective. It's evident that your searching for something to justify, in your own mind, your irrational belief/"faith" in a deity/god by attempting to discredit/disporove the atheist position, this study isnt the answer. No amount of these type of studies will ever undermine the nature of reality and as such they'll never be proof of the existence of a deity/god. @MrNlul77 - hi man. Oh I'm glad you are reading up on autism, that is certainly a very interesting and popular topic right now in history. I recommend Louis Theroux BBC documentary called Extreme Love. He goes to school for Autistic in New Jersey, it's really funny with Louis's British charm and you get a real eye opening look into Autistic people. http://watchdocumentary.org/watch/louis-theroux-extreme-love-12-autism-video_daadc03a4.html I hear you. There is no proof either way for atheism or theism. We all must choose a side. You have a wonderful week my man. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNlul77 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 @Mantis You say "my argument is" then waffle on with your opinions/irrational beliefs/faith nonsense and citing irrelevant studies/theories. You've have made it clear your not interested in the truth, debating and you've nothing to offer in the way of an argument. It also clear your ignorant of the atheist position and I doubt you even understand the theist position either. You've been given your beliefs/faith and your desparate to justify them/it. You make it an undeniable fact that your imature and aggressive. All you offer is trolling. Zzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorBlux Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Oh no, it looks like Atheism is actually a form of mild to high-functioning Autism. This isn't good for the Atheist community. What if being an Atheist is actually a result of being mildly Autistic? That would be ground breaking! What if the Autistic are just less likely to commit those fallacies that lead to theism? Sometimes intuition leads to the wrong results. You lead your post with a fundamental confusion. Atheisms is a different sort of thing than autism. Autism largely describes certain classes of behaviour and cognitive ability. Atheism is an assertion about the external world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koroviev Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 @Koroviev - hi Koro, I'm sorry you feel antagonized. I made a post about the connection between ACE and converting to atheism and the responses I received were loud mouth puppy yapping antagonism, a bunch on men (boys) antagonism that want to sit online and "spin their intellectual wheels" antagonism all day long going no where. No one who is an Atheist on this board is seeking any kind of contrary information about their ideology antagonism. I'm certain that what happens here everyday is hours of people dancing antagonism around and confirming their own theories with each other. Truth isn't at this board, so I'm sorry antagonism. for being sorry you sure do use a lot of antagonistic language My argument is that Atheism is not the logical, reasonable, scientific, empirical, winning, ideology that the adherents are claiming. My argument is that atheism comes from adverse childhood experiences, trauma, and other kinds of distorted winnowing that we find in the modern world. I back this up with multiple sources of information. The kicker is, that I know that neither atheism or theism is provable, so arguing is fing pointless. If I was to argue on here about what is true I'd need to stick a gun down my throat. I can't sit here and spin my wheels for the rest of my life because this is where key strokes go to die. All I'm arguing is that atheist don't have any proof, but their foundation is "we have proof", I'm saying no you don't have proof, and hey look at how dysfunctional atheism really is regardless if it's true or not. From what I understand atheists don't like rationality. So please don't claim that I can come here and have a man's conversation in the midst of a cackle of yapping boys. I mean the childishness reeks here. Koro, you said I use logical Fallacies. If I did, that's because I saw first hand that every one else here uses the same fallacy that they accuse me of while accusing me. Everyone here is rampantly using Fallacies, so I'm simply adhering to the present standards here, I'm sorry. so it's not rational to say that extraordinary claims such as there's some being/group of beings that are all knowing or all powerful who created, control, and care about every single human being and want us to murder each other if we dont blindly believe in their existence without having any, much less extraordinary, evidence. ah you're right i see the lack of rationality now I'll go back to my puppy bed and let big smart and strong manly men like you insult me and people I respect. also, I see now that you're right correlation is causation I've been wrong about that all this time too, have you looked into the correlation between ACE and religion or maybe just about everyone on the planet? or how about autism and religion did you look into that at all?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCapitalism Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Mantis, Have you ever taken a class on statistics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall B Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I think severely retarded people are atheists as well. Maybe atheists aren't even fully human? Wouldn't it be great to be enlightened on an unexplainable level like mantis. Yku may be onto something when saying it's an emotional argument. It's all emotions. Then he throws out the ole "childhood trauma" reasoning because he knows this crowd I guess. Trolling at its finest. Does it matter which God mantis? Like Mohammed, Jesus, Dionysus, batman, etc? Or do you guys just "get it" no matter what you believe? I know you think atheists are trying to take away your invisible friend but we are just wanting to point at that the friend doesn't exist so we can get to reality, pursue the truth and from there a relationship could possibly be built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Mister Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 1) Autistic people tend to have higher IQs 2) People with higher IQs are less likely to be religious. 3) THEN MAGIC HAPPENS 4) Therefore God exists. Yes Mike is touching on what I was going to say about this. Asperger's, or high-functioning autism, tends to be associated with high intelligence, along with kind of social awkwardness, difficulty or inability to process social cues, particularly non-verbal communication. Many of these kinds of people, like the independent journalist Charles C Johnson, have gotten in trouble for saying "hate-facts" in the public sphere, and they seem genuinely surprised and confused at the backlash and slander they get in response. This same social backlash is what prevents many naturally skeptical people from criticizing religion, so it makes perfect sense to me that this correlation would exist. In fact, Sam Harris comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koroviev Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 also, side note the research found that people with high functioning autistism are more likely to be atheists or agnostic and it does not say that atheists and agnostics are more likely to be autistic. Important details.... http://csjarchive.cogsci.rpi.edu/proceedings/2011/papers/0782/paper0782.pdf http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0036880 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirgall Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 @shirgall - hi, for intellectual enquiries I use the seven liberal arts, the trivium and quadrivium. However regarding atheism and theism, my understanding is that neither side can be proven. You must pick a side. It cannot be argued. Each side is a belief and is based on faith. Therefore, all one can do is state their beliefs and their claims and their theories, and others can only disagree or agree. No one can sit there prove either atheism or theism, and the end of the day either side is accepted on faith, and at the end of the day which faith you choose is based on emotion, regardless of how logical one claims to be. Therefore shirgall, I don't use any tools when it comes to atheism or theism, because this is a matter where tools don't apply. I guess you do need to read, so the tool of reading would be all you need. At the end of the day the decision is based on emotion and a complex set of psychological factors and life experiences. Logic, reason, science, proof, doesn't apply and never will. It will be, for the rest of time, Faith. All one can do is pick a side. There is a distinct difference between making a claim that gods exist and not making a claim that god's exist. You don't pick a side, you have to be persuaded out of the baseline position of not accepting an extraordinary claim. The Trivium includes formal logic. You had the tool but I don't think it is being properly applied. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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