Philosophy makes me unhappy. I can no longer justify it.

[utopian]

I have posted on this forum before that my chief motivation is fulfillment, in all aspects. I thought a journey deeper into philosophy would help me achieve that goal, but the further I go into philosophical quandaries, and the more truth I consider, the unhappier I become. Truth hurts, plain and simple. And while there some ways in which grasping the ugly truth and shaping it into something beautiful can make me happier, there is an obvious and constant wall which I am running into where the answer becomes clear that philosophy can no longer serve me.

 

Before I mention this wall, perhaps I should take a moment to comment on just what philosophy HAS done for me. I forget exactly when it was I stumbled upon one of Stef's old videos about the Federal Reserve, but it sparked my interest in it, it's history, it's mechanics, and monetary science. I can see the governmental matrix we live in now. I can prepare and protect myself against it, even determine certain inevitable events regarding it which I can capitalize on. Many of Stef's videos interviewing people have also helped me see that plenty of other people have problems, and are arguably worse than mine, as so many people seem to be so much more lost than I am. Perhaps I am just fine, all things considered, and should pursue a philosophy of acting like it. Stef's research and articles I see here on this forum have given me a plethora of information and perspective which has developed me in several interesting and useful ways.

 

 

That being said, the wall I keep ramming my head into, is socialization. In real life, no one wants to talk about the Fed. No one wants to know how they are a slave. No one wants to talk about their problems. I mean, occasionally, someone will have the slightest interest in somewhat mentioning one of these or other important topics, but no one wants to delve into it with any seriousness. Sometimes a thoughtful guy will consider some of these things I am interested in, but never women. Especially women typically do not want to consider anything except how they are perfect, and god forbid anyone mention they have anything to improve. 

 

In fact, it seems my main socialization problem is with women. I have dabbled in women with no serious investment, always only playing with them. Never giving any of them my heart as we danced the night away before I brought them home, and then forgot them the next day. It's all they deserve. After all, none of them care to get to know me, or care for my heart. To be real, and to accept the real me. I knew better than to ever give a woman my heart.

 

 

 

 

 

I made that mistake recently. She has no lack of red flags. At first it began as me playing my game on her, but there was something about her dysfunctions that so perfectly matched my own. She very much needed me and wanted me in certain ways, and it was everything I wanted. She loved me. I have no lack of record and memory in which she told me she loved me. Her want and need for me, though unreasonably neurotic, was everything I seemed to ever want, and was the most fulfilling thing I think I've ever experienced. I told her I gave her my heart, and she accepted, proceeding to love me as if to show how much she did.

 

 

 

And then, I drove her away. I drove her away by breaking too many rules at once, tipping too much of my own hand, and in fact giving her all of my heart. It was the philosophy, the being too real, the striving to get her to constantly improve herself as I do, that pushed her away. It was too much too soon. Perhaps it is too much period. After all, there are ways in which I know I am capable of handling certain kinds of torment that the average person cannot even consider.

 

She cannot handle such things. She does not want to pursue improvement. All she wants to do, is be happy and have fun. She wants to play goat simulator. She wants to laugh. She wants to show me videos of cats on the internet. All the stupid, unimportant, anti philosophical things I tend to abhor, she enjoys. Though I would typically divest from such people, I find this time, I simply cannot do it. With this girl, I have experienced happiness and fulfillment which I have never seen anywhere else. Happiness and fulfillment which not even philosophy has offered me. 

 

I see here sometimes, people prudely sticking to their philosophical musings, as if they bemoan to consider anything outside the collective wisdom of the church of philosophy. Do not accept a single red flag. Do not deviate from philosophical pillars. Do not this, do not that. In the end, all it means to me, is do not be happy. Do not live a full life. Turn away from the wonderful thing you have found. I am so sick of these naive idealistic prudes trying to convince me to only ever pursue the unicorn of a woman. Reality check fool; unicorns do not exist, and if that is your philosophy, do us all a favor and pursue your philosophy right out of the gene pool.

 

 

 

Because if that is what it means, then philosophy, morals, ethics and everything else be damned. I will live in the matrix. I will lie to myself and all others. I will live with a crazy, chaotic, controlling woman. I see now why people live a life in lies; they are happy. It makes life worth living, when all the world around them supports the idea of anything but. Never before in all of reality have I ever seen such happiness. If I have to choose between the constant misery of reality and the happiness of the world we can pretend to be in, then I will choose the imaginary world any day. Because that is the only life which is worth living, and in all my philosophical searching, that conclusion is in keeping with philosophy as it is the ugly truth.

[regevdl]

 

 

I have posted on this forum before that my chief motivation is fulfillment, in all aspects. I thought a journey deeper into philosophy would help me achieve that goal, but the further I go into philosophical quandaries, and the more truth I consider, the unhappier I become. Truth hurts, plain and simple. And while there some ways in which grasping the ugly truth and shaping it into something beautiful can make me happier, there is an obvious and constant wall which I am running into where the answer becomes clear that philosophy can no longer serve me.

 

Before I mention this wall, perhaps I should take a moment to comment on just what philosophy HAS done for me. I forget exactly when it was I stumbled upon one of Stef's old videos about the Federal Reserve, but it sparked my interest in it, it's history, it's mechanics, and monetary science. I can see the governmental matrix we live in now. I can prepare and protect myself against it, even determine certain inevitable events regarding it which I can capitalize on. Many of Stef's videos interviewing people have also helped me see that plenty of other people have problems, and are arguably worse than mine, as so many people seem to be so much more lost than I am. Perhaps I am just fine, all things considered, and should pursue a philosophy of acting like it. Stef's research and articles I see here on this forum have given me a plethora of information and perspective which has developed me in several interesting and useful ways.

 

 

That being said, the wall I keep ramming my head into, is socialization. In real life, no one wants to talk about the Fed. No one wants to know how they are a slave. No one wants to talk about their problems. I mean, occasionally, someone will have the slightest interest in somewhat mentioning one of these or other important topics, but no one wants to delve into it with any seriousness. Sometimes a thoughtful guy will consider some of these things I am interested in, but never women. Especially women typically do not want to consider anything except how they are perfect, and god forbid anyone mention they have anything to improve. 

 

In fact, it seems my main socialization problem is with women. I have dabbled in women with no serious investment, always only playing with them. Never giving any of them my heart as we danced the night away before I brought them home, and then forgot them the next day. It's all they deserve. After all, none of them care to get to know me, or care for my heart. To be real, and to accept the real me. I knew better than to ever give a woman my heart.

 

 

 

 

 

I made that mistake recently. She has no lack of red flags. At first it began as me playing my game on her, but there was something about her dysfunctions that so perfectly matched my own. She very much needed me and wanted me in certain ways, and it was everything I wanted. She loved me. I have no lack of record and memory in which she told me she loved me. Her want and need for me, though unreasonably neurotic, was everything I seemed to ever want, and was the most fulfilling thing I think I've ever experienced. I told her I gave her my heart, and she accepted, proceeding to love me as if to show how much she did.

 

 

 

And then, I drove her away. I drove her away by breaking too many rules at once, tipping too much of my own hand, and in fact giving her all of my heart. It was the philosophy, the being too real, the striving to get her to constantly improve herself as I do, that pushed her away. It was too much too soon. Perhaps it is too much period. After all, there are ways in which I know I am capable of handling certain kinds of torment that the average person cannot even consider.

 

She cannot handle such things. She does not want to pursue improvement. All she wants to do, is be happy and have fun. She wants to play goat simulator. She wants to laugh. She wants to show me videos of cats on the internet. All the stupid, unimportant, anti philosophical things I tend to abhor, she enjoys. Though I would typically divest from such people, I find this time, I simply cannot do it. With this girl, I have experienced happiness and fulfillment which I have never seen anywhere else. Happiness and fulfillment which not even philosophy has offered me. 

 

I see here sometimes, people prudely sticking to their philosophical musings, as if they bemoan to consider anything outside the collective wisdom of the church of philosophy. Do not accept a single red flag. Do not deviate from philosophical pillars. Do not this, do not that. In the end, all it means to me, is do not be happy. Do not live a full life. Turn away from the wonderful thing you have found. I am so sick of these naive idealistic prudes trying to convince me to only ever pursue the unicorn of a woman. Reality check fool; unicorns do not exist, and if that is your philosophy, do us all a favor and pursue your philosophy right out of the gene pool.

 

 

 

Because if that is what it means, then philosophy, morals, ethics and everything else be damned. I will live in the matrix. I will lie to myself and all others. I will live with a crazy, chaotic, controlling woman. I see now why people live a life in lies; they are happy. It makes life worth living, when all the world around them supports the idea of anything but. Never before in all of reality have I ever seen such happiness. If I have to choose between the constant misery of reality and the happiness of the world we can pretend to be in, then I will choose the imaginary world any day. Because that is the only life which is worth living, and in all my philosophical searching, that conclusion is in keeping with philosophy as it is the ugly truth.

 

 

It seems like you haven't found philosophy at all.  If all philosophy to you is, 'talking about the Fed, talking about people's personal problems' then you are using philosophy as an excuse for your fears of living life.  

 

Of COURSE people don't want to talk about the Federal Reserve.  You and I cannot change the Federal Reserve even if we know the truth about it.  We CAN change the people around us, ourselves and choose who is around us.  But you admitted you don't want to make that investment.  Totally fine.  Don't but then stop blaming philosophy.  Because see.... I get it.  you have to tear it down so you feel better leaving.  You don't have any strong arguments against it and admit it helped you but when it didn't do ALL The work for you, it was of no use to you.  Ok.  cool.  carry on.  But take responsibility and go.  Don't just talk about going..actually go...live in the matrix if that makes you happy.  But to make post after post about how you will be much happier in the matrix but you hang in the 'church' of philosophy as you put it, doesn't put much credibility to your words.

 

I'm not Jewish and don't believe in religion but I don't go to the local synagogue and tell them how they are wrong and they helped me a time ago but now I realize how they are stuck and I am free and will be happy outside of the synagogue and bla bla bla.  It gets to a point where my own words will negate what I am saying by my own actions.  Leave the church of philosophy dude.  BE HAPPY!  please.  I say that with sincerity.  

 

I use philosophy every day of my life and even I don't want to talk about the Federal Reserve most of the time because so much more impacts my life in front of my face than that greed-machine called the Fed.  Focusing on external causes of the world's problems IS what is pushing you away...not philosphy.  Meaning, if you come to me and want to talk about the Fed it means you are not interested in getting to know about me.  Now if you do want to get to know me and you push to know my problems, it shows you haven't put the investment in to build trust and a relationship to earn my dark corners of my existence and pains of my exitence.  MOST people don't want to talk about that stuff.  That's why it's held tight and must be earned and trusted.  You are only revealing how you are failing at these approaches and doing away with philosophy rather than examining if your approach is ineffective.  

 

I use to try to wake people up with really bad approaches but I knew the truth was the truth and had to admit that I was the problem.  Not the information and not the other people.  Talk to yourself in the mirror about the Fed and see if even you would want to talk to you.  you even admitted that you 'play' with women with no serious investment.  

 

Stop blaming philosophy for that.  You chose to not put in the investment in your relationships and you got out as much or as little as you invested or didn't invest.  Philosophy has the answers but you have to put them to work.

 

But, I feel Deja Vu.  I think you posted something a time ago about being a ghost and it's the same sob story and people, such as myself and others, put our empathy and time out there to help and you are stuck in this loop.  So.... go.  If philosophy is of no use, then go and be around the happy people. It's ok to 'say goodbye' to philosophy but then you really have to go.  It's like a cocaine junkie who kicked the habit and still hangs around the street corner where people are buying crack.  

 

Give us a real example of how you approach women or people in general when you are trying to establish connection and let's see if it's error of philosophy or just user error. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

. 

[regevdl]

Ask those people before they die how happy they were.  Are they happy or are they an illusion of happiness.  I am burdened by the truth, isolated by the truth and I am genuinely happy and feel free and live my life without having to please those around me to give an illusion of happiness.  People quietly approach me and tell me 'I wish I could live like that'.  'you seem so happy....what's your secret?'  'You are so far from your family, how can you be so happy?'     Stop using the word happy in what you describe.  You choose to be drugged, numbed, invisible, fake, complacent, apathetic, ...any other word that accurately describes knowingly living in a lie, other than happy.  Because I live in truth, I challenge people around me, my family, my community, my friends, which puts them at a distance and those who are real and loyal stay close to me, my children are amazing, and I have never experienced so much authentic happiness in my life because I know who is on my side and who is in a lie with themselves and who is against me and life is so much easier to manage when people can show their true selves.    So you do not deserve to ruin that word with what you describe.  Find your own word.  You only use the word happy to shield your self shame.  Sorry...the word happy is taken.  I get it, it's easier to leave after you desecrated what you found useful prior. 

[Kevin Beal]

Philosophy doesn't make you feel miserable, reality does. Blaming philosophy would be like blaming your nose for the smell of shit.

 

I don't know who these prudes are, but let's just say that they exist. They don't represent philosophy. It's doubtful they even represent FDR.

 

It is ironic, however, that you've accepted their false dilemma, that it is "no dysfunction" vs "live in illusion". Everybody has some dysfunction. "Controlling and chaotic" sounds like a whole other category, though. I wouldn't lump those two things together. There are plenty of women who aren't chaotic and controlling.

 

Fantasy always breeds resentment. If you don't meet her in reality, you will resent her and she you.

 

If you don't think you are capable of changing something, having other people expect or even ask that of you would sound like a cruelty. I can't change the fact, for example, that I'm attracted to certain body types. If someone expected me to change that by telling me it was bad or unhealthy or whatever, then I'd resent them.

 

Living in fantasy is forming false expectations. There's no way around that. Because they are false, they will only result in frustration, and frustration takes many forms. Disappointment, despair, heartbreak, irritation, depression, etc.

 

People who live in fantasy are not happy. Not for long.

 

There are a lot of depressed people who project their own fantasy onto others, pretending to themselves that they are realists and the happy people must be living a lie. But it's them who is living the lie. They are depressed in the first place because of the many frustrations which resulted in their perception that life is too hard or stacked against them. (Or they are slaves, but you aren't a slave).

 

You are responsible for managing your own expectations. You are responsible for being honest with yourself. 

[MrNlul77]

@utopian, You seem to believe that learning/reading philosophy will make you happy, you've missed the point, philosophy is about understanding the truth.

 

Self knowledge, is fundamentally different from knowledge of society/the world. A person could "know everything" about society and yet know little about themselves. Without self knowledge you'll never know what it is that makes you happy, you'll never know how to bring about your personal freedom(which is where it all starts). Without self knowledge you'll never know if you're actually part of the problems that exist in society and you'll never know how to change, not just yourself but, to a far lesser degree, society.

 

With self knowledge you will realise what type of person are you, what do you find important/right/wrong/good bad, you can then make choices about what you areas you need to work on in order to free yourself and bring about real long lasting happiness/freedom.

 

You could give up and comprise/forget/abandon your integrity, happiness, freedom, morality, "virtue" if thats "your choice", you could ignore reality and live in a delusion, the majority of society do.

 

Forget about saving the world, get yourself into therapy and concentrate on saving yourself.

 

Also, not everyone has what it take to spread the message of philosophy. Some of us have to just live our lives as happy/free as we can; however, what we can do is be factual/truthful in the things we talk about and with the people we meet.

 

P.s, I was going to ignore your post but it made me a bit upset/pissed me off, you attacked something of importance, not just to me, but to a lot of people. Philosophy is not a game, the work Stefan, Mike and the FDR team/community do changes lives and hopefully the future of society. Don't try to belittle it, there are enough trolls out there.

 

Finally, I caution you on your dependence on this girl/woman for your happiness.

[AccuTron]

"...will consider some of these things I am interested in, but never women. Especially women typically do not want to consider anything except how they are perfect, and god forbid anyone mention they have anything to improve."

 

 

Clang, clang, clang!  The alarm bells of truth, the pain of resonance with these statements.... 

[EuanM]

This post reads like a cry for help. 

 

utopian, if this is the way you feel about things you could have just stopped posting and quietly disengaged from here; with that in mind, you must understand the flaws in what you are saying at some level. 

 

@utopian, You seem to believe that learning/reading philosophy will make you happy, you've missed the point, philosophy is about understanding the truth.

 

That's true, but you need to understand the truth as a precondition to happiness - that's why what he's saying is so messed up. The truth sets you free - first it makes you miserable, then it sets you free.

 

Because if that is what it means, then philosophy, morals, ethics and everything else be damned. I will live in the matrix. I will lie to myself and all others. I will live with a crazy, chaotic, controlling woman. I see now why people live a life in lies; they are happy. It makes life worth living, when all the world around them supports the idea of anything but. Never before in all of reality have I ever seen such happiness. If I have to choose between the constant misery of reality and the happiness of the world we can pretend to be in, then I will choose the imaginary world any day. Because that is the only life which is worth living, and in all my philosophical searching, that conclusion is in keeping with philosophy as it is the ugly truth.

 

 

You post this (the whole thing must have taken a while to type up) knowing full well that *everyone* on here will disagree with it and seek to persuade you otherwise. Who are you trying to convince of what here?

 

Philosophy doesn't make you feel miserable, reality does. Blaming philosophy would be like blaming your nose for the smell of shit.

 

Fantasy always breeds resentment. If you don't meet her in reality, you will resent her and she you.

 

Living in fantasy is forming false expectations. There's no way around that. Because they are false, they will only result in frustration, and frustration takes many forms. Disappointment, despair, heartbreak, irritation, depression, etc.

 

People who live in fantasy are not happy. Not for long.

 

 

All 100% true, and he must realize this at some level, otherwise he wouldn't be posting all this.

[labmath2]

Read In The Realm Of Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Mate. I am on chapter 21 and I already realize some things about myself and the way I percieve the world that put a lot of things in perspective.

[Will Torbald]

Philosophy can reveal the truth about reality, but happiness can only grow within when you agree with reality personally. If the world you live in is made of marshmallow puffs, and you disagree with marshmallow puffs, you'll be miserable. But why do you still antagonize marshmallow? You'll never be happy pretending they are cocoa puffs instead. You know they are not. The problem is with you and your bigotry against marshmallow.

[Mister Mister]

I have posted on this forum before that my chief motivation is fulfillment, in all aspects. I thought a journey deeper into philosophy would help me achieve that goal, but the further I go into philosophical quandaries, and the more truth I consider, the unhappier I become. Truth hurts, plain and simple. And while there some ways in which grasping the ugly truth and shaping it into something beautiful can make me happier, there is an obvious and constant wall which I am running into where the answer becomes clear that philosophy can no longer serve me.

 

Before I mention this wall, perhaps I should take a moment to comment on just what philosophy HAS done for me. I forget exactly when it was I stumbled upon one of Stef's old videos about the Federal Reserve, but it sparked my interest in it, it's history, it's mechanics, and monetary science. I can see the governmental matrix we live in now. I can prepare and protect myself against it, even determine certain inevitable events regarding it which I can capitalize on. Many of Stef's videos interviewing people have also helped me see that plenty of other people have problems, and are arguably worse than mine, as so many people seem to be so much more lost than I am. Perhaps I am just fine, all things considered, and should pursue a philosophy of acting like it. Stef's research and articles I see here on this forum have given me a plethora of information and perspective which has developed me in several interesting and useful ways.

 

 

That being said, the wall I keep ramming my head into, is socialization. In real life, no one wants to talk about the Fed. No one wants to know how they are a slave. No one wants to talk about their problems. I mean, occasionally, someone will have the slightest interest in somewhat mentioning one of these or other important topics, but no one wants to delve into it with any seriousness. Sometimes a thoughtful guy will consider some of these things I am interested in, but never women. Especially women typically do not want to consider anything except how they are perfect, and god forbid anyone mention they have anything to improve. 

 

In fact, it seems my main socialization problem is with women. I have dabbled in women with no serious investment, always only playing with them. Never giving any of them my heart as we danced the night away before I brought them home, and then forgot them the next day. It's all they deserve. After all, none of them care to get to know me, or care for my heart. To be real, and to accept the real me. I knew better than to ever give a woman my heart.

 

 

 

 

 

I made that mistake recently. She has no lack of red flags. At first it began as me playing my game on her, but there was something about her dysfunctions that so perfectly matched my own. She very much needed me and wanted me in certain ways, and it was everything I wanted. She loved me. I have no lack of record and memory in which she told me she loved me. Her want and need for me, though unreasonably neurotic, was everything I seemed to ever want, and was the most fulfilling thing I think I've ever experienced. I told her I gave her my heart, and she accepted, proceeding to love me as if to show how much she did.

 

 

 

And then, I drove her away. I drove her away by breaking too many rules at once, tipping too much of my own hand, and in fact giving her all of my heart. It was the philosophy, the being too real, the striving to get her to constantly improve herself as I do, that pushed her away. It was too much too soon. Perhaps it is too much period. After all, there are ways in which I know I am capable of handling certain kinds of torment that the average person cannot even consider.

 

She cannot handle such things. She does not want to pursue improvement. All she wants to do, is be happy and have fun. She wants to play goat simulator. She wants to laugh. She wants to show me videos of cats on the internet. All the stupid, unimportant, anti philosophical things I tend to abhor, she enjoys. Though I would typically divest from such people, I find this time, I simply cannot do it. With this girl, I have experienced happiness and fulfillment which I have never seen anywhere else. Happiness and fulfillment which not even philosophy has offered me. 

 

I see here sometimes, people prudely sticking to their philosophical musings, as if they bemoan to consider anything outside the collective wisdom of the church of philosophy. Do not accept a single red flag. Do not deviate from philosophical pillars. Do not this, do not that. In the end, all it means to me, is do not be happy. Do not live a full life. Turn away from the wonderful thing you have found. I am so sick of these naive idealistic prudes trying to convince me to only ever pursue the unicorn of a woman. Reality check fool; unicorns do not exist, and if that is your philosophy, do us all a favor and pursue your philosophy right out of the gene pool.

 

 

 

Because if that is what it means, then philosophy, morals, ethics and everything else be damned. I will live in the matrix. I will lie to myself and all others. I will live with a crazy, chaotic, controlling woman. I see now why people live a life in lies; they are happy. It makes life worth living, when all the world around them supports the idea of anything but. Never before in all of reality have I ever seen such happiness. If I have to choose between the constant misery of reality and the happiness of the world we can pretend to be in, then I will choose the imaginary world any day. Because that is the only life which is worth living, and in all my philosophical searching, that conclusion is in keeping with philosophy as it is the ugly truth.

I actually found your post very touching and heartfelt, and I'm kind of startled at the insensitivity in a lot of the responses.  I see this post as a cry for help.  If you were really committed to living in the matrix, you wouldn't have written a two page post on this forum of all places.  Has that thought occurred to you?

[AccuTron]

As he aged, George Carlin said in effect that instead of worrying about the BS pile of life, he just stood back and looked at it like it was a circus; disengaged.  I find myself forced more and more into that position.  

 

I honestly seek truth, and it does set ME free, but it also reveals how utterly rotten things are, far more than I'd have dreamt.  Am I happy?  Well, not exactly bubbly, because life is indeed harsh.  Yet I am very happy...tho' that's probably not the correct word...to have learned all that I have over recent years, from the works of so many others.  I would never go back (to blue pill).  

 

If we find ourselves in a stinky swamp, filled with nasty creepy things, and a thick mist the overall view...that sucks, but it's going to suck anyway, so better do what you can to find out more about the terrain and those damned creepy creatures.  With any luck, you'll get a break in the mist now and then.

[dsayers]

I actually found your post very touching and heartfelt, and I'm kind of startled at the insensitivity in a lot of the responses.  I see this post as a cry for help.  If you were really committed to living in the matrix, you wouldn't have written a two page post on this forum of all places.  Has that thought occurred to you?

Definitely a cry for help. If you read his post history as of late, it's wracked with inner turmoil.

 

However, I disagree that telling somebody that 2+2=4 when they submit the answer is 5 is insensitive. If somebody rejects reality, how will supporting their delusion be of any use to them?

[regevdl]

I actually found your post very touching and heartfelt, and I'm kind of startled at the insensitivity in a lot of the responses.  I see this post as a cry for help.  If you were really committed to living in the matrix, you wouldn't have written a two page post on this forum of all places.  Has that thought occurred to you?

It's not the first post that talks about this and each subsequent time they do post, nothing changes.  No quest for therapy, no changing environment.  the user is just repeating the same thing.  He dislikes the people in his life, unwilling to disconnect.  He tries to englighten ghosts, blames philosophy.  And the pattern repeats.  He tells philosophy community he dislikes this approach but remains in the community, but unwilling to engage, and so on and so forth.  

 

You can tell because he never gives specifics.  It's just foggy, unclear analogies and phrases like 'I play with women'.  I have ideas of what that means but none of us really knows and when you actively seek out specific clarity, the ghost vanishes.  

 

And we are left here philosophizing among ourselves as if there was a ghost in the room.  It's absurd.  

 

The first time I saw this user post I also noted it was a cry for help and I engaged.  I'm sure there are other similar posts by the user that I haven't stumbled upon but this is not the first time.   Many of us have put in heartfelt responses and compassion and empathy and creative thinking and helpful suggestions and it's the same thing wrapped up in a different cry for help and the user disengages. There are other people crying for help and actually willing to engage and examine themselves and participate in a mutual path of truth and healing towards a more fulfilling life.  That's where I have chosen to spend my time and wish this user well, with all sincerity.  He repeats he's happier, I want him to be accurate with his words.  If I stop doing drugs and still want to hang around drug dealers, those who push me away from the drug dealers are the virtuous ones.  So pushing this bird out of the nest will move him closer to what he has admitted he wants.  It's probably not the best for him but each bird must fly on their own.  We can teach them but can't do it for them.  

 

 The pattern I see (from this and other posts of this user) is that they complain about everything around them but don't really list out what they have done.  other than 'i talk and people don't want to'.  But the user is not willing to examine or go into depth about the approach in order to see if a more efficient approach might be  helpful.

 

It's cruel to tap into people's emotions and sympathy without committing to the conversation.  It's emotional dumping and it's cruel.  Fool me once...shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me.  

 

There is enough evidence on this board and site of conversations from the 'church of philosophy' willing to engage, reaching out, trying to help, trying to understand, showing what virtue is,  trying to invest in this user and he complains that it's making him unhappy and the fact that he has people next to him not willing to invest, that ignore his feelings or can't even see his inner turmoil, and that makes him unhappy.

 

 He wants the ghosts to be enlightened and the enlightened to be ghosts.  When you speak with ghosts, it's hard to let the enlightened ones in.  It actively repels them but he wants his ghosts and to find a good woman.  Irrational expectations and refusing to view reality and accept reality.  Let him go.... his life of temporary blindness won't last forever, it's unsustainable and he will be back with better perspective or double down and live the rest of is life in regret that he chose the immediate gratification than the prize of restropective glasses as the end of his life looking back that the temporary pain was worth avoiding the lifetime of B.S. 

 

Just beware RoseCodex.  

Philosophy doesn't make you feel miserable, reality does. Blaming philosophy would be like blaming your nose for the smell of shit.

 

I don't know who these prudes are, but let's just say that they exist. They don't represent philosophy. It's doubtful they even represent FDR.

 

It is ironic, however, that you've accepted their false dilemma, that it is "no dysfunction" vs "live in illusion". Everybody has some dysfunction. "Controlling and chaotic" sounds like a whole other category, though. I wouldn't lump those two things together. There are plenty of women who aren't chaotic and controlling.

 

Fantasy always breeds resentment. If you don't meet her in reality, you will resent her and she you.

 

If you don't think you are capable of changing something, having other people expect or even ask that of you would sound like a cruelty. I can't change the fact, for example, that I'm attracted to certain body types. If someone expected me to change that by telling me it was bad or unhealthy or whatever, then I'd resent them.

 

Living in fantasy is forming false expectations. There's no way around that. Because they are false, they will only result in frustration, and frustration takes many forms. Disappointment, despair, heartbreak, irritation, depression, etc.

 

People who live in fantasy are not happy. Not for long.

 

There are a lot of depressed people who project their own fantasy onto others, pretending to themselves that they are realists and the happy people must be living a lie. But it's them who is living the lie. They are depressed in the first place because of the many frustrations which resulted in their perception that life is too hard or stacked against them. (Or they are slaves, but you aren't a slave).

 

You are responsible for managing your own expectations. You are responsible for being honest with yourself. 

I met my quote of a whopping 2 up votes today.  lol  But very well said.  all on point!

[Kevin Beal]

I don't have context for the unicorn talk, so maybe it is as you say. Maybe, even, it is exactly the kind of self justification you would be implicitly condemned of, except that rather than justifying dating where it's not healthy, it's justifying not dating where it's not healthy. Certainly worth examining, right?

 

I said earlier that you have no excuse, but beyond being needlessly provocative, I wonder if it's actually untrue. At least, I don't think I'm in much of a position to level such criticisms. When it comes to seeking romantic relationships my own thinking gets pretty damn muddy, and I act in ways I regret. I'm willing to excuse a lot of things I wouldn't indulge if it came from a guy, or a woman I wasn't attracted to. And I also have retreated out of fear, when being honest was the right choice. I guess, I can see it a little from both sides.

 

I don't have any certainty that if you break up with this particular woman that you will find your version of a unicorn. I can't promise you happiness either. Maybe you shouldn't listen to me, at all. But I've been thinking some more about this, and maybe it will be of some use to you, or someone else in this position.

 

I was depressed for a good chunk of this year, but something significant has changed for me in the past few months. I'm not joyful exactly, so much as satisfied. I think the difference is in the expectations I have. Consider that if you don't expect joy, you don't get frustrated when you go without it.

 

For a good chunk of this year, I was frustrated about things, over and over again. I had expectations about how my job should look, about how my relationships should look, about how much closure I would achieve and a lot more. My expectations weren't met, and yet, I wasn't exactly happy to let go of those expectations, either.

 

It felt unfair that I should be denied this or that. I felt resentful that other people's interests were opposed to my own. And this contributed to a sense that my life was unmanageable, that life was too difficult and unfairly stacked against me. This caused me to grow cynical as I tried to spare myself the pain of disappointment and loss. It sapped my motivation and I felt like a fraud trying to continue to hold on to those goals and expectations when I had no motivation for it.

 

It's like that Rolling Stone's song:

 

 

You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes you might find
You get what you need

 

My expectations weren't met, and I'm finding more and more that this is not a bad thing. And in a way, I was being a fraud, because I wasn't living in reality.

 

I wasn't letting go of the expectations because I found relief in the fantasy that my life would work out in the way I planned. I found some motivation – however fleeting – in imagining myself in certain positions. I fantasized about being a hero, essentially. And because I wasn't willing to let that fantasy go, I frustrated myself. I became irritable, bitter, cynical and stuck in dysthymia.

 

I realized that the way life is, is a lot more interesting than my fantasies anyway.

 

If you don't mind humoring me, try noticing the next time you feel frustrated. Pause! Slow down and consider that for a second. Ask yourself "why am I frustrated?" Notice what your expectations were and ask yourself if those expectations are really reasonable expectations, or just a false premise stemming from a belief about how life ought to be, but isn't.

 

I do this daily now and I'm finding it enormously helpful. My frustration turns into curiosity. I don't feel thwarted so much as creative and in control of my life.

 

Consider my words earlier, when I said you had "no excuse". I considered RoseCodex's observation and my first impulse was to feel anxiety and then guilt, which made me feel frustrated. I expected that my post was a really good one and then feared that it wasn't good, but bad. So, I paused. I noticed that expectation, and why I felt anxious: other people's potentially negative perceptions. I was curious of what other people might actually think, and I realized that in the worst case scenario it's still not that bad. You, for example, are not going to wilt away because of such an insignificant comment. And maybe even you do know better, and don't have an excuse. Maybe it is worth reminding you.

 

In any event, I removed it from the original post for the double edged sword such a statement could be. And I came up with this brilliant thing right here. I call that a win!

 

[utopian]

First, someone give Matt a rep for me, that gave me quite a giggle.

 

Second, oii thats a lot of posts to respond to, forgive me for just speaking broadly and trying to hit all the points I am seeing.

 

Third, my post might be a cry for help, but when I was writing it, I was thinking more along the lines of displaying the reasoning and the conclusion I have come to. I do indeed believe my conclusion is what is best for me. But I am one person; I lack perspective. I posted thinking I would read responses to consider other people's opinions, and see if I have made any errors in my thinking.

 

I am not exactly leaving, I still want to come check out things posted here that interest me. I don't think I can ever actually leave. Now that I know the truth, I will always know it, and will ever only be able to pretend. But that is why I feel justified; wallowing in the truth just seems to never pan out for me as far as happiness goes. Investing in people never has either. Until now. 

 

 

I did mention philosophy has helped me in some ways. I know myself much more than I first did, and have improved myself in many ways because of it. One of the things I have come to understand, however, is that I have instincts. Instincts which become triggered and cause me to react before my neocortex even has a say in it. Philosophy has allowed me to avoid triggering situations, at least. It has indeed improved my socialization somewhat. But it is incomplete. 

 

 

 

One of the more important realizations I have come to, is in fact the idea of managing my expectations. I expect equality, and virtue, decency, and a lot of other things that seem reasonable to as for. I find my expectations to be too high for the general population. I could invest myself in always being the starting point, the example for others to build from, but that investment cost is simply too high for me. The cost is a life of unhappiness. How can I justify that? I can see here on this very thread, the valid logic of not investing in people who will never be worth it. By the same logic do I claim I cannot justify in anything that does not make me happy. Stephan himself has denoted in one of my favorite videos, that he cannot justify the continued existence of the human race, because of its disgracefulness.

 

 

And I find myself most frustrated, when trying to fight against it. Trying to live a philosophically virtuous life. It's boring, uneventful, and frustrating. I find more beauty and happiness, in a chaotic, unbound woman while ignoring the misery of accepting the truths of the world. There is some kind of correlating quality here between anarchy and an anti-philosophical life, though the words elude me to describe it. I do know that Stef himself advocates anarchy, noting that controls tend to only get in the way of the best situation that can be brought about. By the same logic do I advocate that simply accepting things the way they are without trying to change them seems to be what brings about the most happiness in my life. Even if that means looking away from the truth. I am not here to say I am completely shedding philosophy; I am here to get perspective on the conclusion of philosophy I have found that seems to work best, and I seem to be unable to describe it completely. 

[regevdl]

If you found a better way to communicate with others, this 'general population' that would bring more validation to spreading philosophy, would you adapt that method?    

 

Meaning, clearly the method now isn't working.  It cannot be EVERYONE else is the problem because many of us here have had success in others hearing us out.  It's not a huge percentage of people but more than I would expect, given the controversial topics and perspectives I and others bring up.  I was able to bring an Egyptian who still lives in Egypt, has never been outside of Egypt up to snuff about the Federal Reserve and it's impact on US policy and global policy.  

My mom has low IQ and was able to slightly open her up about her abusive/neglectful parenting and it's impact on our cold relationship of current.  

 

It's like they say...if you can't identify the crazy person on the bus, it's you.  So by you saying, 'my expectations are too high for the general population'..it sounds like you are taking responsibility but you are still not.  There are a lot of dumb, blind, ignorant, biased people out there.  It's just something you get used to.

 

 Having high expectations isn't the issue.  It's using intelligence of knowing how to speak about complicated, ingrained, indoctrinated issues to people on their level without startling them. And...sometimes it's good to startle them.    You seem to have not found or experimented a whole lot with your approach and it seems you are clouding the reason to be because of philosophy but in fact it's to keep a girl and nothing more.  

 

it's not deep but you try to build efficacy around your reason to make it appear deep and thought out.  You want the girl, you know she's not a good match for you but you want her anyway.  Fine.  You will earn more respect by at least being bold faced honest about it.  So I say, be honest with yourself.  You say a lot of words to build a facade and to mask that you just want to keep this girl no questions ask.  You want to cheat on her with 'philosophy' on the side.  you will hide philosophy under your bed like a dirty porn you don't want your mom to find.  You will say you are going out for milk but instead go down the dark alley to meet up with philosophy.  Just be honest about it.  

 

I'm pushing back on the point about using ineffective methods because either:

1.  Either your method is stellar but the people are of such low IQ that it makes me question your IQ thinking you can make debilitatingly low IQ people smarter to any significant degree.

 

2. Either your method is off a smudge and are unwilling to consider that point

3.  Either your IQ is low and you are suffering from the Dunning Kruger effect.

4.  Either their IQ is at a level that makes them functional beings but your method is off.  

5.  Either your method is stellar but you are surrounded by narcissists which makes me question your IQ if you don't realize that narcissists don't care what you think and yet you still try to expect them to care what you think and you blame yourself for having 'high expectations for the narcissists around you'.  

6.  It might be possible you come of incredibly condescending to those around you of whom you want to change and enlighten and repel them, making you feel intellectually superior, however exposing a gap in intellect for not recognizing and humbling yourself to speak your intelligence on their level.  

 

Like a Neil DeGrasse Tyson....incredibly intelligent...can unpack highly complex things and concepts, repackage and deliver it to the average dumb dumb like myself to pique my interest and broaden my understanding of something I have absolutely no clue in.

 

So your simple comment of 'my expectations....of the general population' is a very condescending, self elevating view of yourself and is exactly why you cannot connect to people and why I ask if you even want to?  You complain you cannot but you just need to make such minor adjustments in delivery of the info and communcation which makes me wonder if you want the results you claim to seek.

 

So, I ask .  If you are shown a method to communicate effectively with people about things you care about, the Federal Reserve or philosophical matters, would you use them if you knew they would work? Do you actually WANT the results of people caring about the Federal Reserve or deeper matters?  

 

It's a simple yes or no.  

[Wuzzums]

Regarding the happiness of others discussion. Did it ever occur to you it might be a classic case of mistaking the world for yourself? Just because you find no joy when putting yourself in others people's shoes it doesn't mean they're as miserable as you are. Lots of people enjoy watching soccer where I'm from. Because I would rather watch paint dry it does not mean they would rather do that too and are just faking the enjoyment.

 

I am also interested into finding out more about this woman you can't help yourself from not mentioning. You keep circling back to her, accusing philosophy as the reason you can't be with her.

[Will Torbald]

First, someone give Matt a rep for me, that gave me quite a giggle.

 

Second, oii thats a lot of posts to respond to, forgive me for just speaking broadly and trying to hit all the points I am seeing.

 

Third, my post might be a cry for help, but when I was writing it, I was thinking more along the lines of displaying the reasoning and the conclusion I have come to. I do indeed believe my conclusion is what is best for me. But I am one person; I lack perspective. I posted thinking I would read responses to consider other people's opinions, and see if I have made any errors in my thinking.

 

I am not exactly leaving, I still want to come check out things posted here that interest me. I don't think I can ever actually leave. Now that I know the truth, I will always know it, and will ever only be able to pretend. But that is why I feel justified; wallowing in the truth just seems to never pan out for me as far as happiness goes. Investing in people never has either. Until now. 

 

 

I did mention philosophy has helped me in some ways. I know myself much more than I first did, and have improved myself in many ways because of it. One of the things I have come to understand, however, is that I have instincts. Instincts which become triggered and cause me to react before my neocortex even has a say in it. Philosophy has allowed me to avoid triggering situations, at least. It has indeed improved my socialization somewhat. But it is incomplete. 

 

 

 

One of the more important realizations I have come to, is in fact the idea of managing my expectations. I expect equality, and virtue, decency, and a lot of other things that seem reasonable to as for. I find my expectations to be too high for the general population. I could invest myself in always being the starting point, the example for others to build from, but that investment cost is simply too high for me. The cost is a life of unhappiness. How can I justify that? I can see here on this very thread, the valid logic of not investing in people who will never be worth it. By the same logic do I claim I cannot justify in anything that does not make me happy. Stephan himself has denoted in one of my favorite videos, that he cannot justify the continued existence of the human race, because of its disgracefulness.

 

 

And I find myself most frustrated, when trying to fight against it. Trying to live a philosophically virtuous life. It's boring, uneventful, and frustrating. I find more beauty and happiness, in a chaotic, unbound woman while ignoring the misery of accepting the truths of the world. There is some kind of correlating quality here between anarchy and an anti-philosophical life, though the words elude me to describe it. I do know that Stef himself advocates anarchy, noting that controls tend to only get in the way of the best situation that can be brought about. By the same logic do I advocate that simply accepting things the way they are without trying to change them seems to be what brings about the most happiness in my life. Even if that means looking away from the truth. I am not here to say I am completely shedding philosophy; I am here to get perspective on the conclusion of philosophy I have found that seems to work best, and I seem to be unable to describe it completely. 

 

You're such a victim of yourself. It was painful to read this.

[utopian]

 

If you found a better way to communicate with others, this 'general population' that would bring more validation to spreading philosophy, would you adapt that method?    

 

Yes, I would. And I could see an argument for my lack of communication skills as being a reason people refrain from discussing philosophy topics. That is what I am seeking to improve after all. But I am not the only one recognizing how much general society is lacking on their part. Such can be seen in Stef's videos. I do want them to be interested in things that are more real. Then I could have real relationships. That never seems to be what people want.

 

 

Did it ever occur to you it might be a classic case of mistaking the world for yourself? Just because you find no joy when putting yourself in others people's shoes it doesn't mean they're as miserable as you are. Lots of people enjoy watching soccer where I'm from. Because I would rather watch paint dry it does not mean they would rather do that too and are just faking the enjoyment.

 

I see it as, they are just as miserable, but they refuse to recognize it. Where as I see the taxes taken out of my check and know the matrix behind it, others see the smaller check and assume that is just the way life is. I think this is a great example of people being unphilosophical and happy. 

 

 

 

I am also interested into finding out more about this woman you can't help yourself from not mentioning. You keep circling back to her, accusing philosophy as the reason you can't be with her. 

 

This woman is a great example of women  as a whole. She has plenty of problems. She just goes along ignoring them all and doing her best to be happy. When I go along with her pretend world, everything seems fine. When I try to shed light on why she is having problems, she turns and runs away from me. But with her, at least in her pretend world, she offers me love. That is more than anyone else anywhere has offered me, all of their own accord. The story never changes with women.

[Donnadogsoth]

 

 

 

Yes, I would. And I could see an argument for my lack of communication skills as being a reason people refrain from discussing philosophy topics. That is what I am seeking to improve after all. But I am not the only one recognizing how much general society is lacking on their part. Such can be seen in Stef's videos. I do want them to be interested in things that are more real. Then I could have real relationships. That never seems to be what people want.

 

 

 

I see it as, they are just as miserable, but they refuse to recognize it. Where as I see the taxes taken out of my check and know the matrix behind it, others see the smaller check and assume that is just the way life is. I think this is a great example of people being unphilosophical and happy. 

 

 

This woman is a great example of women  as a whole. She has plenty of problems. She just goes along ignoring them all and doing her best to be happy. When I go along with her pretend world, everything seems fine. When I try to shed light on why she is having problems, she turns and runs away from me. But with her, at least in her pretend world, she offers me love. That is more than anyone else anywhere has offered me, all of their own accord. The story never changes with women.

 

 

I sympathise with your demoralisation.  I've been close to it myself.  It's hard to care if no one around you cares too.  The amount of inbuilt passion required rises logarithmically.

 

Ever occurred to you you're studying the wrong philosophy, and the philosophy you are studying was in part intended by the elites to be solution-less and demoralise you and drive you back into the arms of the bestial peasantry?

[Crallask]

When it comes to women, there are some mighty fine and attractive gals that swim in these waters. Perhaps you should try doing outreach to them?

[Wuzzums]

[quote name="utopian" post="421468" timestamp="1450915530"

 

This woman is a great example of women  as a whole. She has plenty of problems. She just goes along ignoring them all and doing her best to be happy. When I go along with her pretend world, everything seems fine. When I try to shed light on why she is having problems, she turns and runs away from me. But with her, at least in her pretend world, she offers me love. That is more than anyone else anywhere has offered me, all of their own accord. The story never changes with women.

 

If she loves you in her fantasy then it's pretend love. There's nothing wrong, or philosophically incorrect to accept it and enjoy it. To make a crude metaphor, people pay good money to get the fantasy of being sexuality desirable but what will happen when they will run out of money? Fantasy is fleeting, reality is not. Being happy in reality will last till your last breath, being happy in a fantasy will last up to the point reality catches up.

 

Another thing, are you happy with who you are? Because I reckon the answer is no, otherwise why are you content with her pretend version of you being the one she loves and not your true self?

[ribuck]

Harry Browne's book "How I Found Freedom In An Unfree World"is an inspiring book showing how other people needn't stop you from being happy and free. Many people have rebooted their lives after reading it.

[dsayers]

When it comes to women, there are some mighty fine and attractive gals that swim in these waters.

Word   Nothing's sexier than integrity.

[utopian]

Before anything else, I would like to give recognition to a gentleman here on the forum by the handle STer. He has provided me with psychology resources which have described me and my situation so accurately, that it has had immediate results on my relationship. This is not the first time his information has surprised me with its accuracy. His information really is worth a good read through. I can easily see what he has provided resolving all the issues I meant to bring up here, though there were some I did not even recognize.

 

Also, apologies for the late response, I hope you all enjoyed your holidays as much as I did.

 

Ever occurred to you you're studying the wrong philosophy, and the philosophy you are studying was in part intended by the elites to be solution-less and demoralise you and drive you back into the arms of the bestial peasantry?

 

Well as of late, the philosophy I have been mostly looking into is that of Stephan. It is a deviation from my normal philosophical beliefs of that of statism and survival of the fittest and such. It still struggles to resolve itself with me, for the most part. I do appreciate a lot of what he says. 

 

 

When it comes to women, there are some mighty fine and attractive gals that swim in these waters. Perhaps you should try doing outreach to them?

 

Another lifetime perhaps. STer's information has convinced me that my girlfriend and I are very much made for each other. In fact, it is recognized psychology that the best thing I could possibly do is try and make this work, as opposed to seeking the unicorn, or working with someone I am not attracted to, even if she were physically attractive.

 

But already, I see a problem with your suggestion. With my girlfriend, I don't have to do the outreaching. She comes looking for me. She calls me to tell me that she wants me. That she needs me. She physically takes me by the hand and brings me closer to her to do whatever she wants, and I am happy to guide her towards the better path, catch her whenever she falls. I don't need to go chasing her. I don't need to go chasing other women. I'm not sure if a woman could ever understand, how refreshing it is for a man to feel like he is the one being chased. I don't make her chase me, however. 

 

It is an issue of hers, that her father never gave her the love she needed to be psychologically healthy. I can see plainly that this is the case, when I look into her eyes, and let all the love in my heart pour fourth into her. It's so much love, so much that she has never known, that she physically shutters, and looks away begging me to stop, somewhere on the border of laughing and crying. Then I take her face in my hand and guide her back to the love in my eyes she thinks she does not deserve, and fill the hole in her heart with it. She accepts it with her own return of love. It's everything I need to conquer the world.

 

If she loves you in her fantasy then it's pretend love. There's nothing wrong, or philosophically incorrect to accept it and enjoy it. To make a crude metaphor, people pay good money to get the fantasy of being sexuality desirable but what will happen when they will run out of money? Fantasy is fleeting, reality is not. Being happy in reality will last till your last breath, being happy in a fantasy will last up to the point reality catches up.

Another thing, are you happy with who you are? Because I reckon the answer is no, otherwise why are you content with her pretend version of you being the one she loves and not your true self?

There is the existence of her pretending to love me. It's like, there is the pretend love, then behind that there is a disdain and annoyance. But then behind that, there is real love... love that she is afraid of. Love that I am afraid of as well. It hurts, to bring that out. But I am masochistic in this regard. After living so long without feeling a god damn thing in this ghost world,  to feel this and any other pain has become much preferable. This is why I am happy to go along with the pretend love;  I have seen the real love in her. It hurts her too much. She is not ready to face it like I am. Until she is, I will be happy to go along with the pretend love, waiting for her to be ready.

 

I am not happy with everything about myself. I have my shortfalls. But there is a lot I do like about myself. I am very crafty. Nobody knows it until its too late, and then sometimes people still do not figure it out. With this cunning will I sneak philosophy powder into my lover's food, so that it may nourish her back to health against the parasites which suck her blood while telling her not to eat. Of that, I am also proud of.

[dsayers]

the best thing I could possibly do is try and make this work

For the benefit of others: I am SO sorry that this is one of those things that's really hard to understand until you've experienced it, but the fact of the matter is that if it takes work BETWEEN you, trying to force it will accomplish nothing. The work has to be done BY you FOR you, and your partner has to have done the same. If you both have this level of commitment to growth, you will recognize the virtue in your partner and use the strength you've developed to watch, help, and challenge them AND THEY WILL DO THE SAME FOR YOU. Because this is a commitment you've made to yourself before meeting the other person, this process is STUNNINGLY effortless.

 

"trying to make it work" is self-congratulatory way of saying that you fail to accept that the two of you are not on the same page for reasons that cannot be reconciled by way of additional effort towards that which is outside of yourself. This is precisely why self-knowledge is a requisite for healthy relationships outside of yourself.

[Mister Mister]

I'm sorry, I was trying to point this out before, but I have to make the point again to you utopian.  Do you not see the contradiction in your behavior?  You are saying "I am giving up on philosophy" because you'd rather be happy.  But here you are on a philosophy forum putting time and energy into trying to justify your actions with reason.  So what are you really trying to do here?

[utopian]

 

For the benefit of others: I am SO sorry that this is one of those things that's really hard to understand until you've experienced it, but the fact of the matter is that if it takes work BETWEEN you, trying to force it will accomplish nothing. The work has to be done BY you FOR you, and your partner has to have done the same. If you both have this level of commitment to growth, you will recognize the virtue in your partner and use the strength you've developed to watch, help, and challenge them AND THEY WILL DO THE SAME FOR YOU. Because this is a commitment you've made to yourself before meeting the other person, this process is STUNNINGLY effortless.

 

"trying to make it work" is self-congratulatory way of saying that you fail to accept that the two of you are not on the same page for reasons that cannot be reconciled by way of additional effort towards that which is outside of yourself. This is precisely why self-knowledge is a requisite for healthy relationships outside of yourself.

 

Aah, but we do do work for each other. She would not like me describing all of her issues, but I assure you she does try to overcome them for me. She is certainly much more damaged than I. It will take her longer to resolve herself. As far as my own growth, she wants to see me have a better relationship with my parents, for one thing, who I am estranged from. I have been reaching out to them... carefully. Unfortunately, with other people, it is always a matter of them choosing to take my hand.

 

You are assuming a lot with the self congratulatory thing, I have known for a while now that the two of us are not on the same page. Also, you are some dude on the internet, whos rhetoric conflicts with recognized psychology I could readily cite. Should I invest in every youtube commenter as well? By what qualification do you suggest I take your word against something more recognized and established?

 

I'm sorry, I was trying to point this out before, but I have to make the point again to you utopian.  Do you not see the contradiction in your behavior?  You are saying "I am giving up on philosophy" because you'd rather be happy.  But here you are on a philosophy forum putting time and energy into trying to justify your actions with reason.  So what are you really trying to do here?

 

Even in physics, with the most certain of laws, is there a non-zero percent chance of being wrong. I am here to entertain that possibility to become more sure of my position. If I am wrong, someone should be able to convince me of it.

[ProfessionalTeabagger]

Then there's nothing more to discuss. Close your account and leave. Why are you still here? If you want to go back to zombieland then don't be a faggot about it. Just go and stop wasting our time.

[Mister Mister]

 

Even in physics, with the most certain of laws, is there a non-zero percent chance of being wrong. I am here to entertain that possibility to become more sure of my position. If I am wrong, someone should be able to convince me of it.

 

...I'm not sure that answers my question.  If you're open to being convinced, then how do you square that with "philosophy makes me unhappy I can no longer justify it" ???

 

   My suspicion is that none of us can convince you, because the problem is not a lack of proper arguments, but a deficiency of self-knowledge.

[Des]

 recognition to a gentleman here on the forum by the handle STer. 

some dude on the internet

I was wondering if I could contribute anything, and as I was looking at something else, my subconscious popped up the above thoughts of yours, for you to ponder on, if you will.

It does not read: The statements of x are generally well-researched and convincing, whilst y seems generally confused about how to make a logical statement.

Up to you to reflect on whether it is your desire for others to view x as a gentleman and y as some dude, and/or what underlies those words.

[regevdl]

 

 

 

Yes, I would. And I could see an argument for my lack of communication skills as being a reason people refrain from discussing philosophy topics. That is what I am seeking to improve after all. But I am not the only one recognizing how much general society is lacking on their part. Such can be seen in Stef's videos. I do want them to be interested in things that are more real. Then I could have real relationships. That never seems to be what people want.

 

 

 

I see it as, they are just as miserable, but they refuse to recognize it. Where as I see the taxes taken out of my check and know the matrix behind it, others see the smaller check and assume that is just the way life is. I think this is a great example of people being unphilosophical and happy. 

 

 

This woman is a great example of women  as a whole. She has plenty of problems. She just goes along ignoring them all and doing her best to be happy. When I go along with her pretend world, everything seems fine. When I try to shed light on why she is having problems, she turns and runs away from me. But with her, at least in her pretend world, she offers me love. That is more than anyone else anywhere has offered me, all of their own accord. The story never changes with women.

 

 

 

Great.  So I hope I can help.  If you are open to methods that work.  

 

I would like to know if you have any credibility on anything in your current circle (friends/family).  What I mean is, does anyone in your circle come to you for advice on anything....doesn't even have to be philosophical in nature.

 

 I'm asking for the purpose of helping to but need to map out how your peers perceive you.  And I thought about doing this as a private message but if you don't mind it might be useful for others to see as it might help them as well.  

 

So we'll take it step by step to get you closer to a more effective/credible communicator so you can achieve more satisfaction in those or other relationships and with women.

Utopia, 

 

You seem young.  Maybe I am wrong but for what it's worth this is very real psychology and human nature that you have got to somehow absorb.  People, whether they are aware of their enslavement or not do not like to be aware of their enslavement.  I am fully aware of my enslavement and I HATE it.  I find more constructive ways to loosen the chains.  one is by talking about it.  To others, that feels like tightening the grip even more.  So you HAVE to have empathy on their experience of their enslavement in order to be able to save them.  I cannot stress that enough.  Otherwise they will perceive your philosophy as a threat and as the real enslaving mechanism and then you are just working against yourself.  Let that sink in because it's all too real.  

 

People deep down are aware of their enslavement and they ignore it or deny it as a way to take out the sting because they have not been allowed or shown a different way to handle the reality.  This is where you can be a wonderful and positive asset.  It doesn't mean we will be able to set ourselves free but we can live with a confident truth and not a shameful denial.  But again, approach is everything.  

 

I mean it... if you don't take the time to know and empathize with the emotional barriers of the people you are trying to save and release and enlighten, you become a threat to them and to yourself.  It's the intellectual equivilent of the US trying to 'free' Iraqis with bombs and genetic malformations and torture.  That's how Iraqis perceive 'democracy' and no wonder they resist it.  So coming in with those types of air assaults on your peers is the same thing and why they are resistant.  And you are lacking philosophy by even avoiding or refusing to see or empathize with that.  You resent them for it.  That is no more useful than a slave beating down another slave for the 'moral crime' of not admitting everyday of their life that he is a slave.  

 

So just as much as they lack awareness in truth, you have more of it but you are still lacking and you are blaming them for the result.  That's not fair to them or to you or to the rest of us slaves.  

Before anything else, I would like to give recognition to a gentleman here on the forum by the handle STer. He has provided me with psychology resources which have described me and my situation so accurately, that it has had immediate results on my relationship. This is not the first time his information has surprised me with its accuracy. His information really is worth a good read through. I can easily see what he has provided resolving all the issues I meant to bring up here, though there were some I did not even recognize.

 

Also, apologies for the late response, I hope you all enjoyed your holidays as much as I did.

 

 

Well as of late, the philosophy I have been mostly looking into is that of Stephan. It is a deviation from my normal philosophical beliefs of that of statism and survival of the fittest and such. It still struggles to resolve itself with me, for the most part. I do appreciate a lot of what he says. 

 

 

 

Another lifetime perhaps. STer's information has convinced me that my girlfriend and I are very much made for each other. In fact, it is recognized psychology that the best thing I could possibly do is try and make this work, as opposed to seeking the unicorn, or working with someone I am not attracted to, even if she were physically attractive.

 

But already, I see a problem with your suggestion. With my girlfriend, I don't have to do the outreaching. She comes looking for me. She calls me to tell me that she wants me. That she needs me. She physically takes me by the hand and brings me closer to her to do whatever she wants, and I am happy to guide her towards the better path, catch her whenever she falls. I don't need to go chasing her. I don't need to go chasing other women. I'm not sure if a woman could ever understand, how refreshing it is for a man to feel like he is the one being chased. I don't make her chase me, however. 

 

It is an issue of hers, that her father never gave her the love she needed to be psychologically healthy. I can see plainly that this is the case, when I look into her eyes, and let all the love in my heart pour fourth into her. It's so much love, so much that she has never known, that she physically shutters, and looks away begging me to stop, somewhere on the border of laughing and crying. Then I take her face in my hand and guide her back to the love in my eyes she thinks she does not deserve, and fill the hole in her heart with it. She accepts it with her own return of love. It's everything I need to conquer the world.

 

There is the existence of her pretending to love me. It's like, there is the pretend love, then behind that there is a disdain and annoyance. But then behind that, there is real love... love that she is afraid of. Love that I am afraid of as well. It hurts, to bring that out. But I am masochistic in this regard. After living so long without feeling a god damn thing in this ghost world,  to feel this and any other pain has become much preferable. This is why I am happy to go along with the pretend love;  I have seen the real love in her. It hurts her too much. She is not ready to face it like I am. Until she is, I will be happy to go along with the pretend love, waiting for her to be ready.

 

I am not happy with everything about myself. I have my shortfalls. But there is a lot I do like about myself. I am very crafty. Nobody knows it until its too late, and then sometimes people still do not figure it out. With this cunning will I sneak philosophy powder into my lover's food, so that it may nourish her back to health against the parasites which suck her blood while telling her not to eat. Of that, I am also proud of.

  Nothing you described in that is Love.  You can call it that but you are just highjacking the name for your own emotional protection.  Sneaking in philosphy, etc.  gross.  I'm all about spreading philosophy but with people's active participation.  I mean if you can intellectually ruffee someone, then we can't complain of the gub'ment indoctrinating us.    maybe be a gub'ment teacher if that's the name of your game at least 'legally' intellectually ruffee people with some sort of philosophy to increase the odds of it getting through to the students but yeah.... nothing you explained has anything to do with love.  Stop calling it that.  you have a bad habit of using words with clear definitions and using them to fit your own twisted definition.  That's a Marxists tactic and needs to stop.  Call things by their real names is the path to wisdom.  Feel free to use that tactic with your ghosts but clean it up on the philosophy community please.

[EuanM]

Well as of late, the philosophy I have been mostly looking into is that of Stephan. It is a deviation from my normal philosophical beliefs of that of statism and survival of the fittest and such. It still struggles to resolve itself with me, for the most part. I do appreciate a lot of what he says. 

 

 

Well if you don't mind me asking, how long have you been studying philosophy; I mean really study it closely, not just as a passing interest (Particularity as it's done at FDR)

 

I ask because I'v been pursuing Philosophy pretty intensely for almost three years now, and I can certainly testify that its gradually making me a lot happier, but that's over a fairly lengthy period of time and I'm still not the finished article yet.

 

So what kind of a time-frame are we talking about here?

 

 

 

[utopian]

 

...I'm not sure that answers my question.  If you're open to being convinced, then how do you square that with "philosophy makes me unhappy I can no longer justify it" ???

   My suspicion is that none of us can convince you, because the problem is not a lack of proper arguments, but a deficiency of self-knowledge.

Well I am sorry you do not understand, but I don't think there is a simpler way for me to explain it. I believe the reason none of you can convince me, is because the position is correct and there is no rational way to argue against it. I believe there is more of an example of my answer to your question in my next response, and I have an interesting resource about this I intend to share in a moment. 

 

I was wondering if I could contribute anything, and as I was looking at something else, my subconscious popped up the above thoughts of yours, for you to ponder on, if you will.

It does not read: The statements of x are generally well-researched and convincing, whilst y seems generally confused about how to make a logical statement.

Up to you to reflect on whether it is your desire for others to view x as a gentleman and y as some dude, and/or what underlies those words.

 

Well, in dsayer's case, he has proved to be a self righteous hypocritical prude before, right here on this forum which I could cite. That's mostly between me and him however. And I do believe you missed the part where STer provided me resources which I said I was happy to link for anyone that asked. It is a point, I think, that no one here has considered to ask about or look into it, that convinces me of the existing church of philosophical prudes I find on this forum, of which make me unhappy which I can no longer justify. I have sources which corroborate my position, and convince me further of it. No one has yet to get so far as to wonder what they are. I am at least happy to see some interesting thought experiment logic and offered resources.

 

 

 

Is it perhaps because I should link some of these sources without waiting for people to wonder what they are? I feel like without anyone searching for them, no one is interested in what makes me sure of my statements, and is fairly closed off. But on the chance that it may make a difference, here you go guys;

 

 

A video from Stephan himself, where in a situation that is imperfect and cannot be confronted directly, Stef advocates being an AGENT of change in your environment. It's right there at 1:46:25. The position Stef has concluded is the same position I have concluded, that the direct and sudden assault of philosophy upon people tears establishments apart dangerously and unnecessarily, and it is preferable, given the situation, to inject philosophy into a situation discreetly where applicable.  He advocates pretending. He advocates a philosophy of indirect philosophy. That is what I am advocating. 

 

I would like to know if you have any credibility on anything in your current circle (friends/family).  What I mean is, does anyone in your circle come to you for advice on anything....doesn't even have to be philosophical in nature.

 

I have distanced myself from my family as they were and still are very heavy abusers and there was no value I could gain from them that was ever worth the cost to benefit ratio. At work, there are many who feel they can do better than me. Even my bosses, somewhat. I ignore them and go about doing things my way. They keep me hired and maximum hours because at the end of the day, they  know I get the work done, and the difference is quite noticeable when I am not there. 

 

I don't really have much more of a circle outside of that, except my alternative energy meetup circle. I have credibility with them as far as many money matters. 

 

 

 

You seem young.  Maybe I am wrong but for what it's worth this is very real psychology and human nature that you have got to somehow absorb.  People, whether they are aware of their enslavement or not do not like to be aware of their enslavement.  I am fully aware of my enslavement and I HATE it.  I find more constructive ways to loosen the chains.  one is by talking about it.  To others, that feels like tightening the grip even more.  So you HAVE to have empathy on their experience 

of their enslavement in order to be able to save them.  I cannot stress that enough.  Otherwise they will perceive your philosophy as a threat and as the real enslaving mechanism and then you are just working against yourself.  Let that sink in because it's all too real.   

Empathy is indeed hard for me. It is not something I do naturally, which is why I posted, I believe I am a sociopath. It takes some applied logical thought for me to consider an empathetic approach. Lately, however, I have considered it more often, as I understand I myself am capable of tolerating some incredible pains, including hurtful truths. I go looking for the hurtful truth. Better to feel it now, I argue, than for someone to pull a rug of lies out from under me later. I forget, most people are not ready to leave the matrix. Most people need to immerse themselves in lies just to get through the day. That is why philosophy is not making me happy; it has revealed this to me. The more I delve into it, the more I purvey it, the more alone I am. I was already alone; then I became exponentially alone. I marched on into it, thinking it would get better. It's not.

 

 

 

 

People deep down are aware of their enslavement and they ignore it or deny it as a way to take out the sting because they have not been allowed or shown a different way to handle the reality.  This is where you can be a wonderful and positive asset.  It doesn't mean we will be able to set ourselves free but we can live with a confident truth and not a shameful denial.  But again, approach is everything.  

 

I mean it... if you don't take the time to know and empathize with the emotional barriers of the people you are trying to save and release and enlighten, you become a threat to them and to yourself.  It's the intellectual equivilent of the US trying to 'free' Iraqis with bombs and genetic malformations and torture.  That's how Iraqis perceive 'democracy' and no wonder they resist it.  So coming in with those types of air assaults on your peers is the same thing and why they are resistant.  And you are lacking philosophy by even avoiding or refusing to see or empathize with that.  You resent them for it.  That is no more useful than a slave beating down another slave for the 'moral crime' of not admitting everyday of their life that he is a slave.  

 

 

In fact the more I read your post the more I believe our conclusions may be aligned. 

 

 

 

 

  Nothing you described in that is Love.  You can call it that but you are just highjacking the name for your own emotional protection.  Sneaking in philosphy, etc.  gross.  I'm all about spreading philosophy but with people's active participation.  I mean if you can intellectually ruffee someone, then we can't complain of the gub'ment indoctrinating us.    maybe be a gub'ment teacher if that's the name of your game at least 'legally' intellectually ruffee people with some sort of philosophy to increase the odds of it getting through to the students but yeah.... nothing you explained has anything to do with love.  Stop calling it that.  you have a bad habit of using words with clear definitions and using them to fit your own twisted definition.  That's a Marxists tactic and needs to stop.  Call things by their real names is the path to wisdom.  Feel free to use that tactic with your ghosts but clean it up on the philosophy community please.

 

Well that's very opinionated of you, but it convinces me of nothing. I have known plenty of not love. This is very much different. But then again, love is such an abstract word. Perhaps you yourself would not know it if you saw it. I am sure of what I see.

 

 

 

 

Well if you don't mind me asking, how long have you been studying philosophy; I mean really study it closely, not just as a passing interest (Particularity as it's done at FDR)

 

I ask because I'v been pursuing Philosophy pretty intensely for almost three years now, and I can certainly testify that its gradually making me a lot happier, but that's over a fairly lengthy period of time and I'm still not the finished article yet.

 

So what kind of a time-frame are we talking about here?

 

 

 

Studying PHILOSOPHY... well let me think. The word even has a couple definitions, and I think, assumes a couple more when spoken here. By the definition of philosophy as finding the best way of doing things, I think I have been studying that since after high school, about twelve years. As far as the definition of the search for truth, my whole life. I can remember being 5 years old and my teachers trying to convince me of the lies of fairy tales, and seeking the truth of it and finding the lies. As far as statist philosophy, probably also about 10 years. As far as Stephan, about 5 years. I still have yet to go through Plato and Socrates and such. None of it is done with rigorous intensity. I take a bite of this or that philosophy and play with it very much before I take another bite. 

[Kevin Beal]

That is why philosophy is not making me happy; it has revealed this to me. The more I delve into it, the more I purvey it, the more alone I am. I was already alone; then I became exponentially alone. I marched on into it, thinking it would get better. It's not.

Or, it revealed the loneliness you already felt. You may have your cause and effect reversed. This was my experience.

 

Empathy is indeed hard for me. It is not something I do naturally, which is why I posted, I believe I am a sociopath. It takes some applied logical thought for me to consider an empathetic approach. Lately, however, I have considered it more often, as I understand I myself am capable of tolerating some incredible pains, including hurtful truths. I go looking for the hurtful truth.

Or it's narcissism. Your happiness is not unimportant or anything, but in terms of it being the basis for which you would argue that philosophy is not worth it,... not to be cruel, but so fucking what? Why should anyone care about that? Maybe we should, I just don't know the reason. It seems a bit beside the point, as far as I can tell.

 

If you were a sociopath, you wouldn't feel real happiness anyway, so your argument would be moot. The best you could hope for would be a fleeting kind of satisfaction. If you are capable of complex emotions like remorse, love, compassion, etc, then you are not a sociopath. And if you are a sociopath, then all of your arguments implode in a no null hypothesis, being wrong is proof of rightness kind of madness.