Do Black People Really Commit More Crime?

[Aaron727]

I'm curious about the real crime statistics in America. In 2014 the police stole more money than burglars under the guise of civil asset forfeiture. They can steal your money without charging you of a crime and claim you have to prove its not stolen. You have the BLM stealing land all over the country. The politicians are taking kickbacks and taxing the shit out of people so they can give themselves raises. If crime is counted as humans committing evil against other humans are black people really topping the charts?

   

[shirgall]

There's a ton of statistics in this:

 

 

Also, plenty of links to deeper information.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

But crime is not counted as humans committing evil against other humans, so what is the practicality of your question?

 

And is the fact that blacks commit the most private crime, collect the most welfare, and abuse their children most often not indication enough?

[Aaron727]

Well if we want to find the truth about crime among the races it makes sense that we look at all crime not just what the government calls crime. Is there any reason we shouldn't count all crime?

[myclippedwings]

My opinion is that blacks struggle with emotional blindness as the childhood of the average black person is bound to be affected by spanking or some other sort of childhood violence or subjugation.

 

People act out in different ways, and in stereotypical hood black hood culture, you ether subjugate others or be subjugated yourself, because this is what a lot of them have learned from childhood. The more they continue to repress their emotions, the more they have to act out, crime is one of the ways they don't have to feel their feelings of powerless from childhood.

 

So the average "hood" black guy is constantly chasing feelings of power in order to repress their feelings of powerlessness. Just look at rap, everything is about humiliating and stepping on other's through status, money, disrespect or violence.

 

It is this way of dealing with (or rather controlling, restricting and suppressing) feelings that perpetuates dysfunction in black society. I have rarely met a black person who disapproves of the beatings (or "whoopings") that they're parents gave them in childhood, they either joke about it or dismiss it as something that made them the "strong" person they are today.

 

All of this can apply to other races of course.

 

I know this doesn't answer your question, but I had this thought for a while and felt like posting it in a related post.

[Lykourgos]

Well if we want to find the truth about crime among the races it makes sense that we look at all crime not just what the government calls crime. Is there any reason we shouldn't count all crime?

 

You are offering a new definition for crime; the agencies that produce these statistics don't use that definition. If you want to tally up every moral wrong, then good luck to you. But it's not within the scope of those statistics, and it's not within the ability of the agencies that produce them. I am not aware of any institutions that publish statistics of all moral wrongs; government agencies in the US don't even have an official, all-encompassing, and objective moral system above the law that they could use to achieve such a goal.

[Aaron727]

You are offering a new definition for crime; the agencies that produce these statistics don't use that definition. If you want to tally up every moral wrong, then good luck to you. But it's not within the scope of those statistics, and it's not within the ability of the agencies that produce them. I am not aware of any institutions that publish statistics of all moral wrongs; government agencies in the US don't even have an official, all-encompassing, and objective moral system above the law that they could use to achieve such a goal.

 

Well I'm not using a new definition of crime but yes obviously I understand that the statistics don't use this definition. I'm not interested in finding every moral wrong the people in government have committed(I get that is impossible), I want to find the truth about crime among the races. One thing that would be helpful is to get a break down of police, military and politicians by race. Less than one third of the military are minorities. 80 percent of congress is white and 94% of the senate is white. What I'm having trouble finding is a break down of police by race, I have found stats of specific precincts which seem to be mostly white but I cant find stats on the country as a whole. If you know if those stats are published anywhere please let me know.

[Guest Gee]

Quick! Focus on abstractions and concepts and that which we can not change, this is getting a little too real, a little too actionable! Said the man with no donation status....

 

That was harsh, apologies. You might have a really personal history with this topic, I don't know.

 

When Stef talks about his history with the libertarians and why they fail he talked alot about how they advocate the validity of the non aggression principle and how they rally against the injustice of the state.

I think he pointed out that they can not change the state but they could certainly follow the NAP in their own homes and stop hitting their children. They of course rejected this, they rallied against it, argued why they are helping their children by hitting them (Walter Block I think). They only wanted to talk about what they couldn't change, they only wanted to talk about the state.

 

When I think about it I think they want moral superiority, it probably makes them feel quite heroic, but they, just like the progressives they denounce, do nothing to earn it. I think maybe they are cowards, or hypocrites but maybe they have yet to take that first step towards peaceful parenting. Maybe there is a lot of history and anxiety there, maybe its more a mountain than a mole hill and hey, they are smart people so they probably get how much work it would take to get to where they need to go, so they talk themselves out, they rationalise it all and then talk about what they can't change to manage the anxiety they must feel when facing a daunting task (not to mention personal daemons).

 

Or maybe they just have a lot of inertia and need to do something to get the ball rolling in the right direction. I think that is what donating does, it breaks the personal inertia and gets the ball rolling. I think maybe thats why you want to talk about the state, because you haven't broken that inertia yet. You don't want to think about personal action because your not taking personal action?

 

Of course I don't know you, so I'm probably completely wrong.

 

G.

[QE Infinity]

The difference is that non-blacks might have better access to do legal plunder as politicians, police, bureaucrats, bankers, lawyers, political activists and lobbyists. However, when given this access, it seems, blacks are also more inclined to participate corruption and socialistic policies, as is evident from countries and cities run by blacks. I suppose also the ethnicity of ruled plays a part. More diversity increases corruption, ethnically homogeneous societies have usually a bit less corruption.

[Aaron727]

Ok here is what I have so far and this isn't  proof but i'm just trying to make the case:  

 

Fifty percent (95,800) sentenced inmates in federal prison alone for drug crimes in 2014

Of the 1,561,231 arrests for drug law violations in 2014, 83.1% (1,297,384) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 16.9% (263,848) were for the sale or manufacturing of a drug

70,000 people are arrested for prostitution each year

4.5 billion in civil asset forfeiture in 2014

216,000 rapes in prison in 2008 of that an estimated 65,700 inmates, including 6,800 juveniles, were raped by staff  (most recent numbers I could find)

 

So not even counting wars and taxation there is a lot of crime going on in the american government. Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I can tell the people working in the agencies that commit these crimes are overwhelming white. So when we look at crimes being committed in america why should I ignore this data? I understand that the black community has a problem with crime but is it really so much higher than white folks? Seems like white people just prefer to do evil in public rather than privately.

 

 

EDIT: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/09/03/us/the-race-gap-in-americas-police-departments.htmlthese are the numbers I could find about race gap in policing 

[Libertus]

> But crime is not counted as humans committing evil against other humans, so what is the practicality of your question?

Government did not come up with the words "crime", "rights" and "theft". A crime is and has always been a rights violation. Before you say anything, no, the government doesn't define what rights are, either (although it hands out privileges and steals from you).

[Lykourgos]

Well I'm not using a new definition of crime but yes obviously I understand that the statistics don't use this definition. I'm not interested in finding every moral wrong the people in government have committed(I get that is impossible), I want to find the truth about crime among the races. One thing that would be helpful is to get a break down of police, military and politicians by race. Less than one third of the military are minorities. 80 percent of congress is white and 94% of the senate is white. What I'm having trouble finding is a break down of police by race, I have found stats of specific precincts which seem to be mostly white but I cant find stats on the country as a whole. If you know if those stats are published anywhere please let me know.

 

I don't know the etymology of the word crime, but you have a radical definition when it comes to statistics. At any rate, you understand that your definition and the definition in the studies are different.

 

What's more important is that you will actually need to attempt to discover every moral wrong if you want to truly achieve your goal. If you only break down the government along racial lines, saying this department is x% white, x% asian, etc, then you are only part of the way to assigning "racial blame". You would still need to define your moral system and categorise all the sins, and then you'd need to collect and compile data on the number of sins committed and who committed them. You'd need to explain to the reader how the responsibility is broken down across the government hierarchy, and then discover who within each agency was responsible for each sin. Saying that an agency is x% black is not helpful, unless you draw out the position of those people and relate them individually to the sins so as to discover the % of each race that is responsible (which I take to be your fundamental goal).

 

I think you can guess whether I think this project will succeed.

[Bill Matheson]

I'm curious about the real crime statistics in America. In 2014 the police stole more money than burglars under the guise of civil asset forfeiture. They can steal your money without charging you of a crime and claim you have to prove its not stolen. You have the BLM stealing land all over the country. The politicians are taking kickbacks and taxing the shit out of people so they can give themselves raises. If crime is counted as humans committing evil against other humans are black people really topping the charts?

 

You're confusing graft with thug-level crime. Total false equivalence. A skimming bureaucrat cannot be compared to a home invader or a serial rapist. The latter indicates low intelligence and general incompatibility with civilization. The former is making rational choices (arguably) in order to prosper within the system as he finds it. You can change/eliminate corrupt officials by changing the system. What do you do with people who can't even understand personal space?

[Aaron727]

I don't know the etymology of the word crime, but you have a radical definition when it comes to statistics. At any rate, you understand that your definition and the definition in the studies are different.

 

 

The definition of crime I'm using can be found in any dictionary its not radical to say we don't know the truth because there is massive amounts of crime that is not counted. 

 

 

 

What's more important is that you will actually need to attempt to discover every moral wrong if you want to truly achieve your goal. If you only break down the government along racial lines, saying this department is x% white, x% asian, etc, then you are only part of the way to assigning "racial blame". You would still need to define your moral system and categorise all the sins, and then you'd need to collect and compile data on the number of sins committed and who committed them. You'd need to explain to the reader how the responsibility is broken down across the government hierarchy, and then discover who within each agency was responsible for each sin. Saying that an agency is x% black is not helpful, unless you draw out the position of those people and relate them individually to the sins so as to discover the % of each race that is responsible (which I take to be your fundamental goal).

 

I think you can guess whether I think this project will succeed.

 

I'm not saying I can prove anything, I'm saying there is data out there that makes me have doubts about how much more crime blacks commit than whites. I don't know how you can be certain of a topic when there are millions of offenses that are not even counted.  I can't accept its true that black people commit way more crime because we are missing a big amount of data. Is there anything illogical about that? I understand that blacks commit more of what that government calls crime, I'm not disputing that.

 

You're confusing graft with thug-level crime. Total false equivalence. A skimming bureaucrat cannot be compared to a home invader or a serial rapist. The latter indicates low intelligence and general incompatibility with civilization. The former is making rational choices (arguably) in order to prosper within the system as he finds it. You can change/eliminate corrupt officials by changing the system. What do you do with people who can't even understand personal space?

 

Well police literally steal the money you have without charging you of a crime under civil asset forfeiture. 200k people are being raped in prison and half the population in prison didn't do anything immoral. They arrest you and throw you in cage for being a hooker. They put you in a cage for using drugs. If you try to defend yourself you're beaten or killed. How is this false equivalence?  

[QE Infinity]

Like I said. blacks have worse access to legal crime, than other races. But when they do, they usually do even more crime.

 

When we talk about these statistics, it's not to blame one group instead of another, but to understand and to predict societies consisting of different races.

[Aaron727]

Like I said. blacks have worse access to legal crime, than other races. But when they do, they usually do even more crime.

 

When we talk about these statistics, it's not to blame one group instead of another, but to understand and to predict societies consisting of different races.

 

Yeah I haven't read any articles or studies that support that. Can you link so I can read them please?

[algernon]

I think if we do an apples to apples comparison, non-political non-government committing crime, blacks commit more crimes than other races.

 

We could also compare governments of whites, and governments of blacks.

 

I am fairly certain based on things I have read of entirely black governments, you would find equal "legal" crime (taxes etc) plus the additional "illegal" crime, embezzlement, bribes, blackmail etc., You can find instances of cities with almost entirely black governments - Detroit for example - look at the shenanigans that went on there. Some (black) Dallas city official recently was convicted of bribery or some other scandal.

 

You can look at the absolutely insane government crime rate in countries like DRC (The Congo), nothing gets done except through bribery. From things I would read it appears the entire government is corrupt, beyond the commonly accepted taxation practices of "legal" crime.

 

It seems like you are trying to arrange a situation and create a comparison that is not equal.

[fezjones]

i think per capita they coomit more crime, but the crime isnt as sophisticated as crime commited by whites lets say.  If blacks really did commit more crime and it was more sophisticated they would be the government!

[Aaron727]

You can look at the absolutely insane government crime rate in countries like DRC (The Congo), nothing gets done except through bribery. From things I would read it appears the entire government is corrupt, beyond the commonly accepted taxation practices of "legal" crime.

 

It seems like you are trying to arrange a situation and create a comparison that is not equal.

 

Yeah I understand black run governments do extremely evil things. I'm just wondering how it breaks down in america specifically. What I don't understand is why is there any distinction between government and private crime. No one has given any valid reasons why its unfair to count government crime with private crime. I get that its annoying to point this out because we don't have the numbers of government crime by race. I just don't what to go out in to the world and tell people black people do more evil things unless I can be reasonably certain its true. Conservatively violent government crime is double private violent crime. All private violent crime in america adds up to about 1 million offenses and last year the government arrested 1.5 million people for drug crimes alone.

[algernon]

Yeah I understand black run governments do extremely evil things. I'm just wondering how it breaks down in america specifically. What I don't understand is why is there any distinction between government and private crime. No one has given any valid reasons why its unfair to count government crime with private crime. I get that its annoying to point this out because we don't have the numbers of government crime by race. I just don't what to go out in to the world and tell people black people do more evil things unless I can be reasonably certain its true. Conservatively violent government crime is double private violent crime. All private violent crime in america adds up to about 1 million offenses and last year the government arrested 1.5 million people for drug crimes alone.

 

You have to use the commonly accepted definition among people you are talking to, if you tell someone you just smoked a fag (be honest, what came to mind?), most people don't know that is slang for cigarette. Whenever we are talking about crime statistics, we are not referring to widely accepted governmental practices. Yes the government commits a crime in the truest sense through taxation (etc etc etc) and force, but when talking about crime rates most will not comprehend.

 

If you only want to talk about America

What is the population of blacks (Hint - 12%)? What percent of violent crime is committed by blacks? 84%

What percentage of government organizations have blacks compared to the overall percentage in the country? Here's a hint.

 

(Edit - Chart formatting didn't work) Source - http://www.dol.gov/_sec/media/reports/blacklaborforce/

Characteristics of employment - Blacks - Whites

 

%Working in the public sector -    19.3   -  14.2

 

Doesn't this make the entire argument invalid? Wouldn't this statistic actually enforce the counter argument?

[Aaron727]

You have to use the commonly accepted definition among people you are talking to, if you tell someone you just smoked a fag (be honest, what came to mind?), most people don't know that is slang for cigarette. Whenever we are talking about crime statistics, we are not referring to widely accepted governmental practices. Yes the government commits a crime in the truest sense through taxation (etc etc etc) and force, but when talking about crime rates most will not comprehend.

 

 

Well when I'm talking to freedomain radio listeners I'm assuming most people are anarchists so I don't think its incorrect to use this definition of crime.

 

 

 

If you only want to talk about America

What is the population of blacks (Hint - 12%)? What percent of violent crime is committed by blacks? 84%

What percentage of government organizations have blacks compared to the overall percentage in the country? Here's a hint.

 

(Edit - Chart formatting didn't work) Source - http://www.dol.gov/_sec/media/reports/blacklaborforce/

Characteristics of employment - Blacks - Whites

 

%Working in the public sector -    19.3   -  14.2

 

Doesn't this make the entire argument invalid? Wouldn't this statistic actually enforce the counter argument?

 

Thanks, I appreciate you sharing that info. It definitely helps the counter argument. I think because of my hatred for cops and because of the shear number of crimes they commit, I want to remain skeptical. I understand that the data we do have points to black people committing more crimes. Thanks again for your reply and sorry for the late response.

[ProfessionalTeabagger]

I'm curious about the real crime statistics in America. In 2014 the police stole more money than burglars under the guise of civil asset forfeiture. They can steal your money without charging you of a crime and claim you have to prove its not stolen. You have the BLM stealing land all over the country. The politicians are taking kickbacks and taxing the shit out of people so they can give themselves raises. If crime is counted as humans committing evil against other humans are black people really topping the charts?

If you want include such state actions and programs as crime then you have to include welfare. That would vastly increase the black crime rate. 

[Libertus]

Receiving welfare or taking it from someone? The second is done by the state. Don't blame the recepients.

[Kevin Beal]

Blacks make up a disproportionate number of federal jobs.

They also make up a disproportionate number of TSA agents.

They have disproportionately fewer police jobs.

Blacks are almost proportionately represented in congress.

 

But really, who cares? Is it simply the statement "blacks commit more crimes on average" that seems to be the problem? Are people going to hear that and then justify bringing back jim crow? Seriously, why does it matter? I don't see black people on the street and run away screaming.

 

If we just take police officers alone, Hispanics are overrepresented by about as much or more than whites, so you're still incriminating a minority using that logic, it's just not blacks.

 

And if you're talking about police officers specifically, they make up 350 out of a 100,000 people, which is tiny. The number of criminals is something like 10 times that by the standard sort of definitions, and you are arguing for expanding that definition, so even more people. There are 513,200 elected officials in the US, which is a much smaller number, who don't seem to be overwhelmingly white, anyway. But then there are 3 million federal employees who are disproportionately black, who may or may not fit your definition of a criminal.

 

And this is a hugely unverifiable matter anyway. Is it all police? Is it only the police who threaten violence beyond carrying a weapon and engaging people as a police officer? Are white cops more likely or less likely to make those kinds of threats? I was unable to find any data on perpetrator's race, myself. I suspect that they don't exist.

 

By all the standard sorts of definitions, blacks a disproportionate amount of crime, and there's no reason I can think of as to why that wouldn't transfer into any other category of criminal you can think up. The causal factors seem to be the same across most categories of crime, immorality.

 

The actual number of violent criminals in the US is low and dropping, so it's obviously not something where you just go "oh, he's black, then you can't be here". That is, unless we include spanking and hitting children as violent crime and that has a significantly higher approval rating among blacks. So, why stop at police officers? Parents make up a gigantically higher part of the population, after all.

 

But to reiterate, I don't care who's committing the most crime except insofar as we can do something about it and prevent recurrence. If dismantling the race baiting narrative places increased responsibility on the people being violent and takes it away from the mythical white patriarchal enslavement class, then I think that's a wonderful thing.

[Aaron727]

And if you're talking about police officers specifically, they make up 350 out of a 100,000 people, which is tiny. The number of criminals is something like 10 times that by the standard sort of definitions, and you are arguing for expanding that definition, so even more people. There are 513,200 elected officials in the US, which is a much smaller number, who don't seem to be overwhelmingly white, anyway. But then there are 3 million federal employees who are disproportionately black, who may or may not fit your definition of a criminal.

 

 

 

I think its important to focus on police because they are directly committing violent crime and in much higher numbers than private criminals. its really hard to know who is to blame in a wide array of government jobs but with police its clear cut. Police directly use violence against peaceful  people. Also its not my definition of a crime.

 

 

And this is a hugely unverifiable matter anyway. Is it all police? Is it only the police who threaten violence beyond carrying a weapon and engaging people as a police officer? Are white cops more likely or less likely to make those kinds of threats? I was unable to find any data on perpetrator's race, myself. I suspect that they don't exist.

 

By all the standard sorts of definitions, blacks a disproportionate amount of crime, and there's no reason I can think of as to why that wouldn't transfer into any other category of criminal you can think up. The causal factors seem to be the same across most categories of crime, immorality.

 

 

In general the police arrest people for doing nonviolent things. If you're a cop, black or white you're an evil person doing evil things just like a criminal. Do u think its unfair to paint them all with the same brush? We don't need lists of what cops did what all we need to know is that they are police, that is enough to condemn them. I would assume that white and black officers arrest non violent criminals at the same rate so if there are more white cops they are doing more evil things. Do you think that is a stupid assumption?

 

I wonder if in general criminals with higher iq go into policing and politics but maybe if you have a lower iq you are committing crimes at the street level. This could be one reason they don't transfer into other categories of criminal. That being said there are a decent amount of black politicians. I'm not really sure.

 

The actual number of violent criminals in the US is low and dropping, so it's obviously not something where you just go "oh, he's black, then you can't be here". That is, unless we include spanking and hitting children as violent crime and that has a significantly higher approval rating among blacks. So, why stop at police officers? Parents make up a gigantically higher part of the population, after all.

 

But to reiterate, I don't care who's committing the most crime except insofar as we can do something about it and prevent recurrence. If dismantling the race baiting narrative places increased responsibility on the people being violent and takes it away from the mythical white patriarchal enslavement class, then I think that's a wonderful thing.

 

 

I agree that spanking should be counted as violent crime and I do understand that blacks are hitting their kids a lot.  Thank you for bringing this up.

 

Why don't you care? If one race does commit more crime than another doesn't it puzzle you? I agree that the whole white enslavement class bullshit has gone too far. Its just weird to me that anarchists talking to other anarchists don't think we need to take into account the most dangerous powerful criminals in the world.  I can defend myself against a street thug but i cant defend against the police or the state.  I wonder do you give police the excuse of ignorance or do you hold them responsible for their actions?

[Kevin Beal]

Do I think that something is immoral no matter what uniform they are wearing? Yes. You made this a racial issue. I'm responding to that.

 

Your argument goes something along the lines of:

 

1. White people make up a disproportionate majority of the police force.

2. The police force commit the majority of violent crime.

3. White people occupy positions (because of a relatively higher IQ, or for other reasons) that are criminal but which don't make it into crime statistics because it's socially reinforced

4. Therefore white people are the more violently criminal race

 

I already stated that this reasoning is more damning of hispanics than whites, which you did not acknowledge, which is interesting. But let me respond to this logic behind: to be in the police is automatically threatening violence.

 

Not all police people make arrests. Not even most. Most work in supporting roles and are morally equivalent to anybody else who supports officers making arrests, politicians, meter maids, judges, etc. We don't know the racial distribution between these different roles. Blacks could be overrepresented in that capacity for all we know.

 

The fact that it is socially supported and is regarded as a moral obligation changes the nature of the crime. It is not insignificant that you and I would far prefer to be harassed by a police officer than other kinds of violent criminals. Even anarchists who fully understand that behind every law is a gun are perfectly willing to harass police officers, call them names and do what would in any comparable situation see them get their asses beaten by some thug, if not worse.

 

The bully on the playground threatens violence in order to steal lunch money from the other children, but clearly we would not include this in the same category of violent crime as a rapist or murderer. The severity of the offense is significant, so comparing a police officer who's never used direct violence to a gangbanger who's actually sticking guns in people's faces is not comparing apples to apples. One is clearly more violent.

 

If we are going to come to a conclusion as to which is the most violent race, we need to focus at least some of our attention on the most violent crimes. As shown in the presentation above, blacks and hispanics are overrepresented.

 

I say I don't care which race is the most violent because I don't care. I don't have a compelling reason that makes me care. If it were asians which fit the standard I provided, that fact alone wouldn't matter to me.

 

It seems like there are two conversations happening simultaneously that are muddying things. First, are the police and government criminals? And second which race is most violent?

 

If you treat the second as if it were the first, then it makes debate difficult because they are different questions. It would be same-ish if you were right in speculating that whites make up more and just get away with it more, but you haven't provided sufficient evidence of this highly unverifiable claim, as I have shown.

 

The fact that it is so unverifiable and you don't acknowledge that your logic is even more damning of hispanics, and that you just pay quick lip service to spanking makes me wonder why there is the implication that whites are the most violent. It seems like you started with the conclusion, to me. It doesn't make you wrong, obviously, it just comes off like confirmation bias. And why? My guess is white guilt. Of course, I could be wrong about that. If we're speculating about things, that's my speculation.

[TheRobin]

If you're curious about government crimes, have you looked at how corrupt and criminal governments are in "black" nations (like African countries, where the whole government and police is mostly or completely inhabited by black people)?

I think that would be a much better comparison than trying to squeeze out numbers on mixed nations with mixed racial groups. (Although of course, cross-country comparisons have other problems as well)

[Walter E. Strong]

 

 

"So not even counting wars and taxation there is a lot of crime going on in the american government. Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I can tell the people working in the agencies that commit these crimes are overwhelming white. So when we look at crimes being committed in america why should I ignore this data?"

 

White collar crime has almost always been treated more lightly than blue collar crime.  It shouldn't be that way but life ain't fair.

[Aaron727]

Alright kevin, first let me start of by saying I do acknowledge hispanics are largely involved in the police force, at least as much as white people. I apologize if me not mentioning that was annoying. I didn't address it because it didn't seem relevant to me. Blacks seem to be underrepresented in policing and that is what I am focusing on. To be fair I should of said whites and hispanics are more often cops.

 

Do we know how many cops make arrests vs the cops that just sit behind a desk or are you speculating about that? Its fine to speculate i'm just curious.

 

Wrong is wrong and I don't excuse anyone just because something is socially supported. Even mainstream statists don't buy into the whole "I was just following orders" they hold people accountable when they think wrong has been done. To be honest with you I would rather have an altercation with a thug than a police officer. I can defend myself from a robber or murderer relatively easily but with the police I have to submit because even if I can get away or take down the cop I have the entire might of the state hounding me. If you're lucky enough to live somewhere where you can carry a gun, police are your primary danger not criminals(at least in my view). Also if you do get captured by police its possible that you will have a record for the rest of your life which is much worse than having your wallet stolen or being beaten. You don't even have to break the law, the police can arrest you whenever they choose. In my view the most dangerous violent crime is the crime that is impossible to defend against. Lets be clear arresting a nonviolent person is violent crime. It is not unfair to compare arrests of nonviolent people to violent crime because police are threatening your life for doing nothing wrong. I would bet that very few violent criminals murder just to murder, they usually have an objective and don't care about hurting people that get in the way.Just like the police. 

 

I would agree that if we want to find the truth we have to focus on where the most dangerous crime is taking place and in the highest numbers.  So if millions of offenses are being committed by police that is where we need try and get the data. As I have said before in this thread there were only a million instances recorded of violent crime in 2014. On record the police commit much more than that every single year

 

I haven't made any claims about which race is the most violent. All I have done in this thread is express my doubt that blacks commit more than other races and given the reasons why. I'm trying to say that we first need to accept that the police and government are criminals before we can know the truth about crime. I don't have any white guilt, I just hate white people as much as all the other races and In my opinion we need more data before we can make claims. 

[DaveR]

But crime is not counted as humans committing evil against other humans, so what is the practicality of your question?

 

And is the fact that blacks commit the most private crime, collect the most welfare, and abuse their children most often not indication enough?

 

I agree with the first part. Certain lines of work blacks are over-represented in (prostitution, pimping, narcotic distribution) have been criminalized, although IMO, are not inherently evil, whereas other lines of work (money counterfeiting/banking) that whites/Jews are over-represented in, that have not been criminalized (and are actually given legal protections), are indeed evil. 

 

I don't see welfare collection as a evil, as it is taken (evil) and received (not evil) by two different parties. One must also consider overall in welfare terms, its not black males who cost the most, but little old white ladies who refuse to die. A white woman will typically outlive a black male by 10 years. Thats at least 10 more years healthcare and pensions...a far greater cost than whatever black males receive. It would also be interesting to break child abuse down to class levels. Is it a 'black thing' or a 'poor thing' 

 

It is thus very sad to see the Black Lives Matter Crowd go "F*** the Police" (the enforcers of unjust laws) rather than "F*** the politicians" (the actual creators of unjust laws). The police actually do a very racially blind job of law enforcement. Yes, there are anti-black officers, but generally, given the degree to which they are monitored, put their politics behind their job. Its not their fault the laws are created to target the black demographic. 

[Matthew Ed Moran]

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear in my first post, and if it has led to more confusion than an accurate portrayal of my concern with this thread.

 

My concern with this thread is that it is attempting to divert attention away from important moral concerns, by creating a false dichotomy which attempts to muddy a clear moral issue with something that is not related at all.

 

The clear moral issue is that private blacks are committing crimes at a rate far higher than other private citizens, and that they are committing violent crimes against other races at a disproportionate degree. Plainly, black people are on average murdering white people a lot more than white people are murdering black people. This is not a moral issue per se, it is a race issue. If you are confused why FDR is trying to bring truth and valid perspective to issues of race, it is because the media and social mainstream have concocted a false narrative about the nature of race in society. The common narrative is that there is a staggering moral concern which has its roots in a racist history of slavery and oppression of whites against blacks, and that this concern was not only valid when slavery existed, but it is still valid today. Whites are oppressing, harming, and institutionally being racist against blacks; This is the mainstream narrative, and it is a specifically racial narrative.

 

Is this your understanding of the present situation, or am I supposed to somehow believe that your post is completely unaware of this and completely misunderstanding what the truth about crime and other presentations are aimed at? Because if your post is about something completely different, than what I am wondering is why do you even care? You are asking about statistics of all the evil committed in the world by race. Besides seeming like a useless endeavor, it is also probably an impossible endeavor. Which leads me to ask, do you know what we are about here at FDR? We tend to take moral considerations pretty seriously, and so we are empirical and invest time in what we can change to make society more moral. Usually it is not FDR-like to focus on things which aren't empirical or aren't even clear as to why they are important.

 

Now to the issue: the mainstream narrative, which is specifically racial, is completely false and destructive. It is also not indiscriminately destructive, but it is specifically targeted destruction against white, western society. White western society is by far the closest any society has become to being free market, philosophical, and moral. Are you beginning to anticipate the danger now? So what is up with your question? Why is it important, how is it practical, and are you aware of what FDR is trying to accomplish with its videos which are about race?

[Aaron727]

The clear moral issue is that private blacks are committing crimes at a rate far higher than other private citizens, and that they are committing violent crimes against other races at a disproportionate degree. Plainly, black people are on average murdering white people a lot more than white people are murdering black people. This is not a moral issue per se, it is a race issue. If you are confused why FDR is trying to bring truth and valid perspective to issues of race, it is because the media and social mainstream have concocted a false narrative about the nature of race in society. The common narrative is that there is a staggering moral concern which has its roots in a racist history of slavery and oppression of whites against blacks, and that this concern was not only valid when slavery existed, but it is still valid today. Whites are oppressing, harming, and institutionally being racist against blacks; This is the mainstream narrative, and it is a specifically racial narrative.

 

I agree and accept everything in this quote.

 

 

Is this your understanding of the present situation, or am I supposed to somehow believe that your post is completely unaware of this and completely misunderstanding what the truth about crime and other presentations are aimed at? Because if your post is about something completely different, than what I am wondering is why do you even care? You are asking about statistics of all the evil committed in the world by race. Besides seeming like a useless endeavor, it is also probably an impossible endeavor. Which leads me to ask, do you know what we are about here at FDR? We tend to take moral considerations pretty seriously, and so we are empirical and invest time in what we can change to make society more moral. Usually it is not FDR-like to focus on things which aren't empirical or aren't even clear as to why they are important.

 

My post has nothing to do with the intended purpose of the truth about crime presentation. Its not impossible to figure this stuff out, If enough people wanted the numbers of police officers or government officials by race those numbers could easily be collected. Also I'm not asking about the stats of the whole world just America. I accept we don't have those numbers right now but so what? I want to express my doubts in a public forum, is that so weird? 

 

I don't care about what behavior is FDR or not FDR. Yes it's great to focus on the things in life that you personally can change but its fine to speculate or be curious or have doubts or even just discuss things that you yourself cannot change. If you would like to talk about all the actions in my life I have taken to make the world a more free place we can but that is not the subject of this thread.

 

I will try clear it up for you, If one race does commit more crime than another I find that very interesting and want to know why. I think its possible that races that have higher intelligence on average may be better at hiding their crime by doing it legally. Maybe that isn't true and maybe blacks commit more crime in government and policing as well. The vast majority of violent offences are committed by government employees mostly by police. If I want to know the truth about crime among the races I am very uncertain because the majority of offenses are not even counted. 

 

 

Now to the issue: the mainstream narrative, which is specifically racial, is completely false and destructive. It is also not indiscriminately destructive, but it is specifically targeted destruction against white, western society. White western society is by far the closest any society has become to being free market, philosophical, and moral. Are you beginning to anticipate the danger now? So what is up with your question? Why is it important, how is it practical, and are you aware of what FDR is trying to accomplish with its videos which are about race?

 

This is your issue not mine. I sympathize with your position but its not the topic of this thread and I have no argument against it. One important thing to come out of this is several people think its unfair to compare violent private crime to the violent crime committed by police everyday, I think that is revealing and helps me understand how others view the state. Seeking truth is important because its the truth, do you need another reason?

[Mister Mister]

Most of your questions are addressed very well in the Truth about Crime presentation.  Have you watched it?

 

 

I will try clear it up for you, If one race does commit more crime than another I find that very interesting and want to know why. I think its possible that races that have higher intelligence on average may be better at hiding their crime by doing it legally. Maybe that isn't true and maybe blacks commit more crime in government and policing as well. The vast majority of violent offences are committed by government employees mostly by police. If I want to know the truth about crime among the races I am very uncertain because the majority of offenses are not even counted. 

  Yes to some extent that is true.  Although, the propensity for violence and fraud is demonstrated to be more common among lower IQ peoples, there is the rare case of the high IQ sociopath, who are certainly the most dangerous people there are.  You bring up a good point that governments steal more than private criminals.  You mentioned police civil asset forfeiture, but far outweighing this of course is taxation, deficit spending, and central banking.  In this way, a tiny amount of mostly white men can steal more than millions of black men.  All this is worth pointing out.  But it's also a distraction from the issue at hand.  Blacks are not doing well in America because of A) Corporal Punishment B) Welfare and Father Absence C) The race-baiting narrative which blames all black dysfunctions on racism and privilege.  If you want to help, these are the areas, in my opinion, that have to be talked about.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

"Its not impossible to figure this stuff out, If enough people wanted the numbers of police officers or government officials by race those numbers could easily be collected."

 

You asked which race is committing the most acts of evil, not which race makes up the majority of police officers. If you had data on the racial breakdown of the police, this would not tell you how many acts of evil each race is committing as a part of the police. Police deal with many valid complaints. You're free to care about this, but I don't so I will respectfully not return to this part of the conversation. I already know the government is immoral, and I already know whites on average are the largest victims in the USA of this immorality, so I don't see any reason why the racial breakdown of the police would be important to me, unless white officers/governments were specifically targeting blacks. Interracial disputes I think are much more important, especially when one race is excused from their wrongdoing against another race, which is the definition of a genocide.

 

"I want to express my doubts in a public forum, is that so weird?"

 

No, it's annoying from my perspective. It'd be different if you had a criticism of how the private crime statistics are counted. If your criticism is that private crime statistics don't include public crime statistics, then it is a bit sleazy to say you're looking for the "real" crime statistics and then only show examples of public crime. Maybe it was an honest mistake. 

 

"I will try clear it up for you, If one race does commit more crime than another I find that very interesting and want to know why."

 

So I take it you have not seen the Bomb In The Brain series? Maybe start there if you missed it, it's definitely a fascinating topic and I agree with your curiosity about it! But it has been dealt with in many discussions of child abuse and its link to both the state and private crime.

 

"The vast majority of violent offences are committed by government employees mostly by police."

 

So more violent offences are committed by government employees than by parents who abuse their children? I'm not sure that's true. I also am not sure police are murdering more than private citizens are. My guess is they are not.

 

So I have put my finger to the pulse of my concern with this thread, and I asked myself why would I care about the racial breakdown of public crime? Why would I care about the racial breakdown of private crime? I would care about these things in only two ways. In the first place, I would care if there was a prevalence of crime which wasn't directly linked to child abuse. If whites and blacks were abused the same, yet blacks committed more crimes than whites, then I would find that interesting and important for the future of a free society.

 

What I care even more about than that thought, is if the private crime were interracial, and if one race were specifically committing crimes against another race at a very high rate. It would be even more important to me if these crimes were being excused against one race, and being inflated about another. For instance, white people are often blamed for black deaths, poverty, workplace performance (or lack of), and yet the truth is that not only are white people not responsible for these things, but they are actually being victimized by other races in the form of black-on-white murders, muslim refugee rapes, illegal immigration job market flooding, welfare payments to all other races. This stuff is not talked about, and that really fucking terrifies me. I don't want to see a genocide against white people in europe and America, but it's clear the start of this has already passed. White people are being institutionally silenced about these horrible acts, by the media, by governments, by other races. So I'm not interested in what race makes up the proportion of the government. Not compared to other things, since I already know the state is evil and have arguments for it. What I think needs focus now is the genocide against white people, it is really a dire subject for me. If you want to question "do black people really commit more crime," maybe a more useful way to ask it would be to add the phrase "against whites." Then we'd actually be talking about something I can definitely see as relevant. But if there is relevance to the topic you brought up, I'm missing it and that may be my fault, but of course you're free to be curious about whatever you like.

 

Edit: Sorry if I implied that if I don't think something is relevant, that you should therefore take that as a criticism of your post. I will leave my post as is to see if you can get any value from it, but obviously I want to focus on facts and objectivity and not my subjective opinions wherever it is possible, so I regret and apologize anywhere I might not be doing that in favor of sharing my subjective feelings/opinions about what you wrote.

[Aaron727]

You asked which race is committing the most acts of evil, not which race makes up the majority of police officers. If you had data on the racial breakdown of the police, this would not tell you how many acts of evil each race is committing as a part of the police. Police deal with many valid complaints. You're free to care about this, but I don't so I will respectfully not return to this part of the conversation. I already know the government is immoral, and I already know whites on average are the largest victims in the USA of this immorality, so I don't see any reason why the racial breakdown of the police would be important to me, unless white officers/governments were specifically targeting blacks. Interracial disputes I think are much more important, especially when one race is excused from their wrongdoing against another race, which is the definition of a genocide.

 

You were saying its impossible to figure this stuff out so I was just providing a starting point to try and get to the truth. If we did get the stats of police by race it wouldn't be absolute proof, i'm just saying it would give us some idea. If it turns out that the vast majority are not black as some of the data suggests that would be interesting seeing as blacks commit much more violent private crime. Another good starting point would be looking into the break down of the DEA and CIA specifically. Maybe once all the data was collected it would turn out there are tons of black police and my entire argument is pointless. I'm just trying to make the case that my position is falsifiable and that its also possible to prove. 

 

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/30/white-people-are-more-likely-to-deal-drugs-but-black-people-are-more-likely-to-get-arrested-for-it/ Here is an article that shows blacks end up in jail or arrested more often. Also the reason why the racial break down of police is important is that it reveals different problems with violence in the races  and how that violence shows itself.  I think its important.

 

No, it's annoying from my perspective. It'd be different if you had a criticism of how the private crime statistics are counted. If your criticism is that private crime statistics don't include public crime statistics, then it is a bit sleazy to say you're looking for the "real" crime statistics and then only show examples of public crime. Maybe it was an honest mistake. 

 

Yeah I understand its annoying. People tend to get pretty annoyed when you express doubt but are uncertain of the answer or solution. Yes my criticism is that the stats don't include all crime statistics and in this thread I have compared the number of reported private crimes vs the number of confirmed crimes that police have committed. It was also pointed out that spanking needs to be included as well, I completely agreed with them and gave my thanks for bringing it up. If you think that's sleazy, fine but I don't.

 

 

 

So I take it you have not seen the Bomb In The Brain series? Maybe start there if you missed it, it's definitely a fascinating topic and I agree with your curiosity about it! But it has been dealt with in many discussions of child abuse and its link to both the state and private crime.

 

 

 

Its been many years but yes I have watched the bomb in the brain series and its great.  I get that violence is rooted in child abuse but everyone abuses their kids so why is one race more violent than another? You could make the case that because blacks spank more they do violent things but then why aren't there more blacks in policing or the military? Wouldn't they be drawn to those jobs at much higher rates than other races? Could it be that other races abuse their kids as much but they just do it in different ways and as a result the effects show up differently? Pure speculation, I'm just thinking out loud. 

 

 

 

"So more violent offences are committed by government employees than by parents who abuse their children? I'm not sure that's true. I also am not sure police are murdering more than private citizens are. My guess is they are not."

 

 

yeah thats true, it should go parents who abuse their kids, government employees, then what the state defines as crime. Police threaten to murder at the highest rates but they don't actually have to murder very often. As I have made the case before in this thread, if you arrest a nonviolent person for doing nothing immoral you have just threatened someones life. I think thats obvious. Not only do they threaten your life but they will hold you in bondage for years for doing nothing wrong.

 

 

 

What I care even more about than that thought, is if the private crime were interracial, and if one race were specifically committing crimes against another race at a very high rate. It would be even more important to me if these crimes were being excused against one race, and being inflated about another. For instance, white people are often blamed for black deaths, poverty, workplace performance (or lack of), and yet the truth is that not only are white people not responsible for these things, but they are actually being victimized by other races in the form of black-on-white murders, muslim refugee rapes, illegal immigration job market flooding, welfare payments to all other races. This stuff is not talked about, and that really fucking terrifies me. I don't want to see a genocide against white people in europe and America, but it's clear the start of this has already passed. White people are being institutionally silenced about these horrible acts, by the media, by governments, by other races. So I'm not interested in what race makes up the proportion of the government. Not compared to other things, since I already know the state is evil and have arguments for it. What I think needs focus now is the genocide against white people, it is really a dire subject for me. If you want to question "do black people really commit more crime," maybe a more useful way to ask it would be to add the phrase "against whites." Then we'd actually be talking about something I can definitely see as relevant. But if there is relevance to the topic you brought up, I'm missing it and that may be my fault, but of course you're free to be curious about whatever you like.

 

 

I think that most of your concerns are valid. I'm not so sure about a genocide against white people but definitely there are a bunch of white people being blamed for things they had nothing to do with. What really fucking bothers me is that you have a bunch of white police threatening the lives of peaceful people and all people do is make excuse for the god damn cops. You have all these black lives matter morons running around saying stupid shit about cops and now people are reacting to that saying oh well the police are not really that bad, well yes they are that bad but just not for the reason the left usually talks about. No one ever excuses private criminals but when it comes to police everyone is suddenly spineless and pulls out bullshit to excuse police for their immoral actions. Where are the anarchists shaming white people for being cops? No one is saying well there seems to be a problem in the white community with policing(maybe the left is saying that but not for the reasons i'm talking about here). They are more than happy to point out blacks committing more violent crime but it doesn't even matter to them that the vast majority of violent crime isn't even counted and we have no clue how it breaks down racially. No one is asking why is one race more often police than another. That bothers me. I understand that this may not be important to you but I think both our concerns are relevant, at least to me. 

 

One other question for you, I'm just curious have you ever been discriminated against for being white? I know it happens, just never met anyone who has. I lived in an all white community growing up so it really helped me being white. The few minority's that lived in my city were treated very poorly at least behind their backs, sometimes to their faces. The examples I have of white discrimination are from news articles but it would be interesting to talk to someone who has experienced it.

 

 

 

Edit: Sorry if I implied that if I don't think something is relevant, that you should therefore take that as a criticism of your post. I will leave my post as is to see if you can get any value from it, but obviously I want to focus on facts and objectivity and not my subjective opinions wherever it is possible, so I regret and apologize anywhere I might not be doing that in favor of sharing my subjective feelings/opinions about what you wrote.

 

Haha, This really made me laugh I have spent this entire thread speculating and giving my thoughts, you don't need to apologize to me.