Sharing Childhood Trauma Through Music

[MysterionMuffles]

A couple weeks ago, a friend of mine and I were in the chat room talking about musicians writing lyrics that touch upon personal dysfunctions, particularly their childhood trauma. 

 

I shared this song by Korn called Daddy, and it's basically about how the lead singer Jonathan Davis was molested by a family member, and when he told his parents, they didn't believe him and thought he was joking. Take a listen at your own discretion, it is quite painful. The rest of the band didn't know what the song was about until he recorded the vocals in the studio and witnessed him breaking down crying and screaming, almost sounding like the child he was when the molestation occurred. They kept the track recording and the last few minutes of him wailing are heartbreaking. This song was so painful for him that for a long time he would refuse to play it live because he wouldn't want to break down during a gig.

 

 

My friend's position was that it seems like an uncalled empathy dump for Jonathan Davis to unload all his pain onto potential listeners of this song and many other Korn songs containing expressions of lifelong struggles. My position was that I think these emotions need to be expressed for the catharsis of the artist, as well as inform people of the many dangers of life such AS child molesters and uncaring parents.

 

On one hand, I can see how manipulative and traumatic it could be to share such a painful story in a song as intense as this, but on the other hand, I think listeners need to be aware of the artist's experiences so that they know such ills occur in the world, and that they can be better people to help prevent such ills. 

 

What are your thoughts?

[Matthew Ed Moran]

Hey RJ I'm interested to hear what others have to say. To be honest, I tried playing the song again to see if I felt the same way I did last time - which was horrified - and I did. I got through maybe 20 seconds last time, and this time I stayed to hear maybe 40. 

 

The distaste I have for the song is that I think it is an inappropriate way to talk about childhood trauma as severe as his. And by inappropriate, I basically mean I personally found it inappropriate. To me music is about controlling someone else for a few minutes, taking them on a ride. Sometimes it can be pleasurable and interesting, and other times it can be enlightening if the song is really good (like realistically depicts a situation people are unaware of and which would be important for them).

 

The thing about this song is I feel like he is intentionally trying to horrify me in the most graphic and obscene ways (his voice inflection which is alien and creepy, his speaking of eating flesh, how he apologizes to his mother). I don't feel like he is trying to create a positive interaction for the listener. And the fact that he basically flagellates at the beginning to say he is sorry to his mother for speaking about it, I think does not send a consistent or healthy message to listeners. I personally couldn't bear listening to any more than I did, but on the other hand I have listened to FDR shows which discuss childhood trauma, and I feel either relieved or a healthy invigoration. I can't remember a time where I felt so horrified that I didn't want to continue listening. And I basically think that is the forum, with a tender and empathetic person, where childhood trauma should be discussed in detail, otherwise to me I think it's unhealthy way to deal with abuse and I would consider this song an empathy dump since the purpose as I can glean is to horrify the listener. 

 

Let me know if you disagree with any of that and I'm interested to hear what others have to say so I know if I'm responding to the song differently than others. It was a good topic for you to bring up

[shirgall]

Seems appropriate to this thread,

[MysterionMuffles]

I think I'm starting to see what you mean, Matt. The opening line, he is excusing his mother who did not believe him about the molestation, and then he spends the rest of the song crying victim while also at the same time kind of "playing as" the molester in the verses in their POV. It's confusing without the explanation of exactly what the song is about, you could easily mistake it as he was actually raped by his parents, or that he has his own desire to molest children. 

 

Perhaps if there was an emphasis on how unforgivable and damaging it was for him and maybe stuck to his own POV for the lyrics, this could have been a more powerful song that brings attention to such a heinous act. While I empathize with his victimhood, now that I listen to it more deeply, especially with that opening  acapella to contrast, he really does not have an objective view of what happened if he's the one asking for forgiveness.

[Anuojat]

Two musics/songs come strikingly to mind:

 

Other side of the mountain (Better known as "The day Mom died")

 

Who am I?:

[Jot]

[myclippedwings]

mm, I think that the artist's attempt is to finally extinguish their painful emotions by expressing them through music, but sadly this doesn't work as they aren't integrating and understanding their pain.

 

It almost feels like the artists are crying for understanding from their audience 

[Will Torbald]

mm, I think that the artist's attempt is to finally extinguish their painful emotions by expressing them through music, but sadly this doesn't work as they aren't integrating and understanding their pain.

 

It almost feels like the artists are crying for understanding from their audience

While it might seem that way, I can tell you from my personal experience that it isn't so. I am not a musician but I have made music as a therapeutic method to integrate my emotions. I didn't know that's why I was doing it at the time, but there are moments when the creative process of writing and composing something new requires the process of self knowledge in order to understand what is it you're trying to create. After the piece is finished there is enormous catharsis and healing, when done from that perspective. Regular and simple composing just for an aesthetic product doesn't result in that, but that's precisely what distinguishes mere singers from real artists.

[myclippedwings]

While it might seem that way, I can tell you from my personal experience that it isn't so. I am not a musician but I have made music as a therapeutic method to integrate my emotions. I didn't know that's why I was doing it at the time, but there are moments when the creative process of writing and composing something new requires the process of self knowledge in order to understand what is it you're trying to create. After the piece is finished there is enormous catharsis and healing, when done from that perspective. Regular and simple composing just for an aesthetic product doesn't result in that, but that's precisely what distinguishes mere singers from real artists.

I agree, I remember Alice Miller saying that she "owes" her emotional awakening to "spontaneous" painting.

She used painting to connect to her emotions, so I think it can go both ways as you say. It seems like art can either be used to pursue your emotions and your truth, or to repress them further and try to vicariously heal through it "intellectually" without the emotional experience that brings understanding.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

I think you both make good points. I think with the song in the OP, I have thought about it and want to correct myself about one point. I don't think I can say it is unhealthy from an outside perspective. And since health is kind of a relative thing, I can imagine situations in which it might be healthy to create a song like that. Something I have learned from interviews and studies shared by FDR is that for people who have underwent significant, nearly unbearable trauma, isolation and the need to conceal that trauma from others can be extremely volatile and harmful. For instance in the ACE study, there was an example of a woman who was overeating, even in her sleep, because was such a primal drive in her to look "ugly" so she would not be at risk of sexual molestation. I think part of that example was how she was able to put off the eating compulsion for some significant period of time simply after mentioning to one of the doctors about her past sexual abuse (hopefully I'm not confusing two different people, but it's contained in the Interview section of the Bomb in the Brain series).

 

So it sounds like, with how intense his emotions were, that this was something which was still very isolated in him and that maybe it was healthy to get it out...

 

But my skepticism is strong about one point, and that is how self flagellation is not healthy for the long term and it is really quite obscene. It is the ultimate surrender to the abuser, a manipulation of your own will to crush it. To say that you seek forgiveness from your mother for speaking about something so horrible which she was responsible for causing, to me that is a a giant lash of a whip against your own soul and I don't appreciate it him doing that to himself because it hurts to the extent I want to empathize with him about his experience. I don't want to say the child does not deserve to be heard, and that he is in debt to his mother for even speaking about it, I want to flog the mother with a terrified anger that she inflicted on him. Maybe that is radical of me, but I think my rage wants to fight off such a dastardly notion that he presents. 

 

BTW I've heard from Daniel Mackler who did reports on Alice Miller that she apparently still had significant presence of trauma in her life, which is not to discredit her, but apparently she had mental breakdowns even towards the end of her career (and from her son's account was a pretty horrible mother). I'm not sure how important that is compared to her body of work and knowledge, but it doesn't seem insignificant. (you can see Mackler's claim in his interview with Stefan)

 

I personally have never tried expressing emotions through art.. I do think it can be helpful to create something without criticism though.. I know I personally lost out on a lot of creativity in my youth with arts and crafts since I was forced to be quite self critical. I can see how reliving those moments but with my own developed sense of self to enjoy my creative work might be put at ease some of the significance of those memories, but that's just a thought I have. One thing that I think is interesting is that music is usually intended for an audience, and usually it is made to be pleasing in some way to listen to. I think the great challenge in producing art that is honest is that you can't let the audience dictate what you say, or how you say it. If you want to be vulnerable, you have to be willing to "let go" a bit, see what comes out no matter how raw and unprocessed it is. With music, you usually are practicing and repeating bits a lot, and I wonder how that would make honest and emotional music difficult since the musical process can tend to be structured and managed.

[MysterionMuffles]

Stefan once made the claim that self-knowledge kind of ruins art, and I think that could be true or untrue depending on the artist. For instance, it seems like Jonathan Davis is still angry about a lot of things in his life and not much of Korn music has had a positive message. Just angry ranting, so in his case, I don't think he has gained much self-knowledge from his catharsis. It's like a perpetual kind of catharsis. But then there are bands like Bring Me the Horizon who started off very heavy, noisy, and angry, and 10 years later are not only choosing to ditch the growling and screaming, but also lightening up their lyrical content as well as the instrumentation crowding. They have taken to the idea of less is more and I think in Oliver Sykes (lead singer of BMTH)'s case, he has gained self knowledge from the years of cathartic music production. He used to be addicted to ketamine and has gone to rehab to kick the habit. In interviews the band has stated that when you lack skill, musician's fall into temptation of covering it up with speed and aggression, and so they've held back in their recent release That's the Spirit.

 

In my experience, my art production has said a lot about my feelings and philosophies as if each piece is an encapsulation of that era of my life. Where I took noisy, horribly structured screamo music, with overly abstract lyrics, I can see that back then I valued verbiage and ambiguity more than accessibility and having a potent message in my music. I would go against the conventional mainstream grain of writing songs with the typical structure of verse chorus verse chorus bridge, and do something entirely in that I may even opt out on even HAVING a chorus in my songs. I've since adapted a little more simplicity in my music so that it's accessible, but not so simple that I don't showcase my skill. I still have my unique structures, but at least there's a catchy chorus to break the several sections apart, and the growling and screaming is gone in favour for clear melodic vocals. My explanation doesn't do it enough justice, but if I ever feel confident about sharing my old recordings and if I can find them, I might share the comparisons.

 

For now though, I'd like to show examples of Bring Me the Horizon of how even their last two records are an example of using their catharsis to actually transcend their old baggage and moving towards something more accessible without abandoning their musical integrity.

 

This is from Sempiternal, their 2013 release. Notice the overuse of harsh vocals, while containing some hint of melody in it. This was the perfect middle ground between Oli Syke's transition from screamer to singer. I'm actually too embarrassed to show anything else before Sempiternal because the vocals were much more harsh and less refined. This song Sleepwalking, I would believe, is about his experiences of being under the influence of drugs. I could be wrong, but I get that impression because when I used to smoke a lot of weed, it did feel like I was sleepwalking and that my "skin was smothering me" at times.

 

 

And now this is from their 2015 release That's the Spirit. Oli has now chosen to use clean vocals predominantly and spare the harsh vocals when it's time for emphasis. So he's still shedding some of his darkness little by little, but the music is clearly starting to change for the brighter in terms of content and mood. Throne, I think, is a tribute to the idea that what doesn't kill you could only make you stronger. I find empowerment in this song because I feel like I can honour my pain and let it strengthen me if I choose a mindset of determination.

 

 

And to those who shared videos please elaborate, if you can, on what the lyrics/music means to you and how it relates to the topic. I'd appreciate it!

[Matthew Ed Moran]

That's an interesting post, RJ.

 

I've been watching a bit of Daniel Mackler lately (I really like him) and he uses the word dissociation a lot, and I think I'm grasping what it means perhaps in my own personal, amateur way.

 

I would define dissociation as a form of managing our own internal states to meet the needs of others.

 

The opposite of dissociation, is integration, which is when we allow our internal states to inform us of our own needs, irrespective of what others desire from us.

 

(these are my definitions)

 

As children, we learn to dissociate often, because directly expressing our internal states is punished. We learn to meet the needs of our parents, because we want to continue existing more than anything else. If we must manage our own needs to mirror theirs, we will, because we want to survive. It is the most healthy thing to do given the circumstances.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So it makes sense from this perspective what music is. Music is a form of dissociation. It is a contained and conveniently wrapped part of ourselves, which usually there is more to than the song lets on.

 

And therefore it would be no coincidence that we connect with music when we are younger, because at that time dissociation is more necessary to stay healthy. We feel invigorated or satisfied to successfully meet the needs of our parents. It is a tragedy. At the same time, it is necessary and unavoidable given our parents' choices.

 

If we can fit a part of ourselves to a song, that is more healthy than ignoring it altogether.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Everything we do is a form of communication, so it makes perfect sense to me when you say your music shows what you were feeling and thinking in your past. The details of a song, and what we particularly connect to in it, give us invaluable information about our past and how we were desperately trying to remain healthy, when we look back with self knowledge. And therefore it tells us what our parents were doing to us, and how we found it necessary to dissociate from our own emotions, to meet their needs.

 

Dissociation is not a dirty word. It is not something we should necessarily scorn. And it is never healthy or unhealthy itself. I think it is the degree to which we dissociate which is important. Do we have an identity and are we working towards expressing it? Or are we pandering to those around us in everything we do?

 

Dissociation is how we adapt to our family of origin, and our society, and to the egos they created in our minds.

 

And if we pursue integration, if we pursue to find our true emotions that we were forced to dissociate from, there will still be places and times when we will need to dissociate from our emotions, because we live in a society where we are forced to meet the needs of others sometimes. But hopefully as adults we can find healthy ways to dissociate when it is necessary.

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

Therefore, I think there is a lot of truth about a person contained in a song... But never the whole truth..

[myclippedwings]

That's an interesting post, RJ.

 

I've been watching a bit of Daniel Mackler lately (I really like him) and he uses the word dissociation a lot, and I think I'm grasping what it means perhaps in my own personal, amateur way.

 

I would define dissociation as a form of managing our own internal states to meet the needs of others.

 

The opposite of dissociation, is integration, which is when we allow our internal states to inform us of our own needs, irrespective of what others desire from us.

 

(these are my definitions)

 

As children, we learn to dissociate often, because directly expressing our internal states is punished. We learn to meet the needs of our parents, because we want to continue existing more than anything else. If we must manage our own needs to mirror theirs, we will, because we want to survive. It is the most healthy thing to do given the circumstances.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So it makes sense from this perspective what music is. Music is a form of dissociation. It is a contained and conveniently wrapped part of ourselves, which usually there is more to than the song lets on.

 

And therefore it would be no coincidence that we connect with music when we are younger, because at that time dissociation is more necessary to stay healthy. We feel invigorated or satisfied to successfully meet the needs of our parents. It is a tragedy. At the same time, it is necessary and unavoidable given our parents' choices.

 

If we can fit a part of ourselves to a song, that is more healthy than ignoring it altogether.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Everything we do is a form of communication, so it makes perfect sense to me when you say your music shows what you were feeling and thinking in your past. The details of a song, and what we particularly connect to in it, give us invaluable information about our past and how we were desperately trying to remain healthy, when we look back with self knowledge. And therefore it tells us what our parents were doing to us, and how we found it necessary to dissociate from our own emotions, to meet their needs.

 

Dissociation is not a dirty word. It is not something we should necessarily scorn. And it is never healthy or unhealthy itself. I think it is the degree to which we dissociate which is important. Do we have an identity and are we working towards expressing it? Or are we pandering to those around us in everything we do?

 

Dissociation is how we adapt to our family of origin, and our society, and to the egos they created in our minds.

 

And if we pursue integration, if we pursue to find our true emotions that we were forced to dissociate from, there will still be places and times when we will need to dissociate from our emotions, because we live in a society where we are forced to meet the needs of others sometimes. But hopefully as adults we can find healthy ways to dissociate when it is necessary.

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

Therefore, I think there is a lot of truth about a person contained in a song... But never the whole truth..

Oh my god, you nailed it with this post!

[Matthew Ed Moran]

Elliott Smith's "Between the Bars" fits this category really well. It's a dark and sad song
 
People you've been before that you don't want around anymore
who push and shove and won't bend to your will
I'll keep them still
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4cJv6s_Yjw

Going to edit in some analysis when I get the chance