Define "Friend"

[bschu]

My dad challenged me with this question when I was young and I found it a worthy question.

 

"What is a friend exactly?" He asked, because I kept mentioning "a friend" who was causing me grief. As I learned the lesson, and as we all learn this lesson (I am confident), we come to find that a friend is not always what the naive mind thinks it to be. Just because someone is spending time on you, giving you attention, listening to you, and such - does not always mean they have the best intentions for you.

 

Observing this lesson, I moved on in my life "choosing who I liked and deciding to be THEIR friend FIRST" with the ambitions of being there for them, giving them my tolerance, opening myself to them without fear, and in general giving them all of the things that I would expect from a friend myself. All the while, realizing that the only way I could ever cause someone else to be a friend of mine, was to hope and pray that by standing by these values someone might catch the signal and do the same in return.

 

This simple lesson taught me so much. I have traveled and lived in so many places now confidently knowing this simple difference between - what I consider to be - a true friend and a potential user (exploiter, etc).

 

But obviously the rabbit hole goes much deeper. I have chosen some strange friends and run into problems, going down with them into their odd spirals. We also find the type of friend who can only accept and not give in return.

 

And now. Isn't it back to the original, petty matter of "give and take equality". Well.. if we are counting dimes and pennies, I guess we are in business as usual again, and there is nothing quite loving or friendly about that, is there?

 

Then there is the question about countless people who might actually "have me in their prayers" (so to speak), but never really interact with me. Does that count? They probably support me from afar, but I wouldn't know.

 

And why did we need friends to begin with? Are you an adult thinking "Haha, this stuff about friends, that's good for children, my wallet and fridge are full, job done!"... really? So you don't want a listening ear? You don't want a trusting society to live in?

 

Friends.

 

Definition?

 

Thoughts?

 

[thebeardslastcall]

I've been thinking about this topic a little myself recently and the simple definition I seemed to be coming to was something like this: Those who share similar values and inclinations. This is a sort of mutual love and respect had not by thought, but because the two of you are naturally aligned towards mutual benefit. Then on a higher level would include people you also get along well with and enjoy their company and interactions with them are generally pleasant and desired on both sides. Sets the bar far higher than most people who toss it around with the slightest acquaintances and are more inclined to vanities and manipulations. Anyone who claims to have tons of friends almost inevitably has a low bar, which says much of them. There are some people whom are friendly and may be friends, but you won't know until you get to know them better. Many people also will confuse you by being 'kind' and 'helpful' to you, but also to your enemies, in which case they are not true friends because in your company they help or pretend to help you and outside of your company or otherwise they hurt you. Friends do not spite each other or aid those with antithetical values as that would show them to be against your values and to not share your values but to be playing all sides as if they are tolerant and kind when they are nothing of the kind. To have values is to have standards and to be without standards, 'kind to all' is to have no standards and to be aligned with none and unkind to all but the wicked.

[madman]

great question. I've talked to friends about moving to the mountains. my concern of course is where will I then find new friends. I need to be challenged. not because i'm lazy or anything but rather to be my best, to enjoy life fully, to experience vitality. if I have fun by myself does it really count? it doesn't really feel like fun to me. i can have fun by myself but then i need to share that with someone. I need people to share with to get the most out of life. isolation does not bring me happiness. neither does false intimacy or false relationships. I've had those all my life.

right now friends fit into a couple of catagories. I have friends who love me and have my back but are on a different path. I have friends who are on a similar path but i'm not sure they're on the same journey. in other words I have friends who say they are after self awareness but i question their ability to be honest cuz they're still practicing magical thinking.

friendship has to be reciprocal. it is exploitation otherwise. i believe friendship is a response to virtue as is love. if i am virtuous. otherwise what is called friendship is normally exploitive. always win lose instead of win win just in a tit for tat way. what you said about keeping score. i payed this time so you can pay next. that's tiresome. i listened to your boring blather now you have to listen to mine. as opposed to being really excited to see someone. how bout we see each other when we want, if we want, cuz we want. that's honest. that's freedom. that's invigorating. Stefan taught me life is short. it's my favorite quote and i stole it fair and square. i tell people regularly that life is short and if' i'm not having a wonderful time I've got shit to do. i'm not obligated to maintain any false relationships. no unchosen obligations.  

[Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit]

I've also been thinking a lot about friendship lately.

 

My best friend (and arguably only real friend) was telling me today that he was listening to a Stef podcast this morning and there was an offhand comment made about how most people do not share their thoughts and feelings, so if you do do this, you're not just friends, but "intimate friends". My friend was shocked by this because he says he always wants to talk about thoughts and feelings but as he thought about all the people in his life, he realised that none of them ever ask about his thoughts or feelings, even though he always asks them. I also find myself wanting to ask people their thoughts and feelings, but I rarely do because people would get so annoyed with me for it.

 

My husband is of the "don't need any friends, don't have time for friends" sort of guy. He finds my desire for close friendships very weird. He thinks my best friend and I talk way too much about intimate things and says that goes beyond what friendship is. Now, I don't know how seriously to take him because, as he has no friends himself, I figure what does he know about it? He's certainly no expert on it, anyway.

 

But I do have to wonder because I find it so incredibly hard to find friends who want to be open and honest with me. I have no interest in or use for friends who just want to hang out. I don't have the time or energy for maintaining such meaningless relationships in my life, so I tend to only pursue and make time for serious friendships. But most people seem to be happy with casual friends only and I really don't understand it. So maybe I'm the one who is clueless about friendship?

 

That said, to me, friendship means enjoying the other person's being, appreciating who they are, seeking to understand them, wanting to be there for them. It's not about what they can do for you, it's about just wanting to love someone who deserves your love and share their company because they brighten up your life. I think people who want the same as me, though, are few and far between, so I'm pretty cynical about friendship these days.