FreedomPhilosophy Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 A 28yo male who has a history of dating single mums, now dating a 40yo single mum of a 3yo child. They are in "new lover energy" and feeling very happy.This man is a child of teenage parents. What say you?
tux Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Is this a fictitious person or someone you know? You have provided few details but what you tell is interesting. That this man has a history of dating single moms is no coincidence. There could be many reasons to why he chooses them. Single moms do have a harder time to find a quality partner as their being single with kids is a big yellow/red flag. Do you think that he thinks he is not good enough for child free women? Or that he suffers form of some white knight syndrome - to "save" these single mothers or their children? 1
neeeel Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 you have 266 posts, so youve been around the forum a fair bit, and have probably watched lots of stefs videos. So, you know what the general view on single mothers is. So I am wondering, what are you wanting out of posting this? You dont give much detail, theres not much people can say other than "tsk, single mothers" 3
FreedomPhilosophy Posted January 21, 2016 Author Posted January 21, 2016 I'm wondering what motivates such men, why don't they go after single women, or could it just be that the woman is perceived as more attractive/available?
Torero Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 A 28yo male who has a history of dating single mums, now dating a 40yo single mum of a 3yo child. They are in "new lover energy" and feeling very happy. This man is a child of teenage parents. What say you? I don't know the person or more background and have no degree whatsoever in psychology so my opinion is an amateur one, but the 12 year age difference is quite extreme. That the 28-year old is the child of teenage parents may have to do with it; compensation? His own parents are then just a bit older than his girlfriend, that's quite strange in relationships. But what if he just likes to care for children, but doesn't like the baby stage? Or just has a good connection with this 40 year old lady which he hasn't with the single non-moms "available" on the dating market to him?
LancierDombre Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 I'm wondering what motivates such men, why don't they go after single women, or could it just be that the woman is perceived as more attractive/available? I think it his highly probable that he doesn't view himself as having enough self-worth to say no to that type of relationship. His judgement is also probably being corrupted by access to easy sex. Has he had any serious relationships with women in his age range? A 28-year old dating at 40-year old single mom! Somewhere in the back of his mind he's got to know that he's selling himself short and he doesn't want to confront it. He's probably afraid that if he says no to this he'll never get laid again - a bird in the bush is worth two in the hand as it were. ;-) I frankly don't know that there is anything specific that you could say but it might be productive to start asking annoying questions that he's probably hiding from. Things like: Do you want kids of your own some day? What is it that you love about her? Then challenge him on his answers like Stef does. If he were to say, "I love how intelligent and kind she is", that would be a red flag that he hasn't thought this through. How intelligent and empathetic is it to become a single mom to begin with - you can find the data about that on the podcast - or to wait until 37 to have a kid? It suggests poor planning and a lack of foresight on her part. This will cause conflict of course but if you actually care about this guy's well being you need to confront him on this woman's apparent corruption and his own corruption that is driving him to seek it out. I knew a woman who got married to a man while she was pregnant with another man's child. Both parties knew that the baby wasn't his but she got in trouble and she had this beta orbiter who had been trying to get some for years and he offered to marry her in lieu of the actual father. She ended up miscarrying and they eventually got divorced. I remember listening to this story mystified about her explanation as to why they got divorced. In her mind it was because, "he just didn't take good care of me", which translates to he wasn't spending enough money on her. I found her way of putting it really amusing because: how much was she taking care of her beta boy? I'm sure this poor guy who she married knew he was selling himself short and not acting with integrity and I'd bet he was being cheap with her out of resentment. As a result he had to go through a divorce and all that that entails. The point of the story is that if your friend's relationship with this woman continues, I bet that in the long run he's going to resent her and sabotage things. 1
inquirius Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 The gynocentricism of society has certainly done a wonderful job of manipulating the brains of men to accept an otherwise totally unacceptable situation such as young man dating a middle age single mom. No man in his right mind would ever subject himself to such a position of cuckoldry. Disgusting. 2
mahayana Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 A 28yo male who has a history of dating single mums, now dating a 40yo single mum of a 3yo child. They are in "new lover energy" and feeling very happy. This man is a child of teenage parents. What say you? Maybe this 40yo single mom has a heart of gold and lives a life consistent with the morals & values we here at FDR share. Maybe, but not likely. If this guy has a history of dating single moms, I would lean more toward the likelihood that having been raised by teenage parents, he lacks the self esteem & confidence to date quality single women. Maybe being the white night & being there to rescue this single mom gives him a sense of worth he just doesn't get elsewhere. Or, perhaps he seeks the nurturing nature that some mothers & older women possess because he never received that from his own mother as a child. In either case it is obviously dysfunctional & he would probably benefit from therapy. Just the 2 cents of a single mom. 2
FreedomPhilosophy Posted January 22, 2016 Author Posted January 22, 2016 The mothers motives are fairly clear I think, attraction to a young fit guy who she shares many common values. It does seem like he is vulnerable though, I'm not sure how much work he has done to process his childhood, but the dynamic here seems to suggest not. The woman could be somewhat exploitative in this case. I don't know how one looks at these things objectively - perhaps they are actually just a great match and really love each other authentically? How would we know this to be true or not, do all the actual circumstantial oddities really tell is something is dysfunctional? 1
LancierDombre Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 The mothers motives are fairly clear I think, attraction to a young fit guy who she shares many common values. What values do they have in common? They both like sex? What values has she been acting out in her own life that have led her to a place where she is a single mother with a 3-year-old at the age of 40? Granted, I don't know this woman but just that fact alone tells me that she hasn't taken family or the best interests of her kid that seriously. 2
mahayana Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 I don't know how one looks at these things objectively - perhaps they are actually just a great match and really love each other authentically? How would we know this to be true or not, do all the actual circumstantial oddities really tell is something is dysfunctional? The original post states that this guy has a history of dating single moms: "A 28yo male who has a history of dating single mums" It could be a coincidence that he keeps finding authentic love and great matches in women who happen to have children but the chances of that are slim. My dating history is brimming with dysfunctional relationships. All of them were useful upon examination for helping to attain greater self knowledge. I wonder if this fellow has ever stopped to ask, "Hey, I wonder why I keep falling for single moms. What happened in my past that makes me attracted to these types of women?" About a year ago I was taking some classes at a local community college and I would get the same type of guy hitting on me. It was always very young men, (some nearly 10 years younger than I) that were aware of the fact I had a small daughter yet would pursue me. My first thought was always, "what's wrong with him?!" These weren't guys looking for an easy lay, they were sweet & puppy dog-like young men. It is a very weird thing being a single mom when the first red flag you find in a man is the fact that they like you. haha
mahayana Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 Tell me about it!! Heehee, I knew there were a couple of us on the boards here.
FreedomPhilosophy Posted January 23, 2016 Author Posted January 23, 2016 Granted, I don't know this woman but just that fact alone tells me that she hasn't taken family or the best interests of her kid that seriously. She split up with the dad after making a play for the young man, they were somewhat unhappy together. And I agree with your summary that she has prioratised herself over her family. But people need to feel happy right? How long should one stay in an unsatisfactory relationship?
FreedomPhilosophy Posted January 23, 2016 Author Posted January 23, 2016 Tell me about it!! Yes please explain further. I am not at all attracted to single mother situations even if I happen to like the mum. I am interested in what motivates these men, and from the single mums perspective, what kind of man "ought" to be attracted to a single mum?
LancierDombre Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 She split up with the dad after making a play for the young man, they were somewhat unhappy together. And I agree with your summary that she has prioratised herself over her family. But people need to feel happy right? How long should one stay in an unsatisfactory relationship? If you don't have kids, you're free to go whenever you want, and sooner is probably better than later. If there's a kid involved, that's more complicated. Was there a specific complaint what you're aware of? If we're talking about verbal and physical abuse, the best thing is to get out of that situation asap; if the guy was holding up his end of things and she just had this vague feeling that she could do better, I have a much tougher time respecting that.
FreedomPhilosophy Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 If you don't have kids, you're free to go whenever you want, and sooner is probably better than later. If there's a kid involved, that's more complicated. Was there a specific complaint what you're aware of? If we're talking about verbal and physical abuse, the best thing is to get out of that situation asap; if the guy was holding up his end of things and she just had this vague feeling that she could do better, I have a much tougher time respecting that. She was unhappy with him because of his depression and some of his behaviour she didn't like, no abuse though, they are still very good friends. I think the "she could do better" is an apt description of the situation. Update is that the young guy is giving her the hot-and-cold treatment and that has been triggering her. It's asking a lot for a 28yo to commit to a single mother and that she pursued him doesn't seem like a great dynamic.
mahayana Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 I am interested in what motivates these men, and from the single mums perspective, what kind of man "ought" to be attracted to a single mum? For me I realize that as a single mom, the decisions I've made in my past have made it difficult for me to now date a "quality man". I'm not sure if I ever will meet that person but I'm certainly open to the possibility. I have listened to nearly all of Stef's videos on single moms & I wouldn't be here on the FDR boards if I wasn't in agreement with the message. I take full responsibility for my past choices & am taking whatever actions necessary to mitigate the damage caused. I absolutely understand why men would not be interested in me in the same way I am not thrilled at the thought of dating a man with kids. Having to deal with someones ex-wife/girlfriend sounds like a nightmare. He would have to have some pretty damn good qualities for me to overlook that. If I do meet someone, I would expect nothing less than for him to see my being a single mom as a red flag (I wouldn't be interested in him if he didn't). I would hope that after some intense inquiry, that person could see that the good far outweighs the bad. 1
inquirius Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 For me I realize that as a single mom, the decisions I've made in my past have made it difficult for me to now date a "quality man". I'm not sure if I ever will meet that person but I'm certainly open to the possibility. I have listened to nearly all of Stef's videos on single moms & I wouldn't be here on the FDR boards if I wasn't in agreement with the message. I take full responsibility for my past choices & am taking whatever actions necessary to mitigate the damage caused. I absolutely understand why men would not be interested in me in the same way I am not thrilled at the thought of dating a man with kids. Having to deal with someones ex-wife/girlfriend sounds like a nightmare. He would have to have some pretty damn good qualities for me to overlook that. If I do meet someone, I would expect nothing less than for him to see my being a single mom as a red flag (I wouldn't be interested in him if he didn't). I would hope that after some intense inquiry, that person could see that the good far outweighs the bad. The problem is that even in an imagination land scenario where you have somehow attained perfect self-knowledge and virtue, the child you erroneously made with a now absent father still exists. You put yourself into an impossible situation where the male authority, empathy, and influence you need is the one you can't have and that's very destructive to your child. Frankly, you chose the "alpha f*cks, beta bucks" model of reproduction and came up snake eyes, so assuming you're honest to men (which is not the case if you're receiving any kind of government benefit for your situation), you should be invisible and untouchable to single men with dignity and self-knowledge. Maybe you consider that a rather harsh statement, but I'm a guy who has lacked a father my entire life, so I figure you should know exactly the kind of mental anguish women like yourself often bring upon your children. When I think about my dad, I feel like I'm being suffocated under a blanket of numbness that I can't claw out of. I don't think single moms need any more kid gloves than the ones the media uses to make them out to be superheroes, when the reality is that the vast majority are villains. 1
mahayana Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 The problem is that even in an imagination land scenario where you have somehow attained perfect self-knowledge and virtue, the child you erroneously made with a now absent father still exists. You put yourself into an impossible situation where the male authority, empathy, and influence you need is the one you can't have and that's very destructive to your child. Frankly, you chose the "alpha f*cks, beta bucks" model of reproduction and came up snake eyes, so assuming you're honest to men (which is not the case if you're receiving any kind of government benefit for your situation), you should be invisible and untouchable to single men with dignity and self-knowledge. Maybe you consider that a rather harsh statement, but I'm a guy who has lacked a father my entire life, so I figure you should know exactly the kind of mental anguish women like yourself often bring upon your children. When I think about my dad, I feel like I'm being suffocated under a blanket of numbness that I can't claw out of. I don't think single moms need any more kid gloves than the ones the media uses to make them out to be superheroes, when the reality is that the vast majority are villains. No kid gloves needed here. I completely appreciate the honesty. I only know a handful of single moms personally but I have heard enough horror stories to believe that a lot of them are villains. I'm equally repulsed when the media puts single moms on pedestals. It sends a very destructive message and only perpetuates the welfare state and breakdown of families. "Frankly, you chose the "alpha f*cks, beta bucks" model of reproduction and came up snake eyes" That mentality is truly foreign to me and I can assure you was not the case in my situation. I think it would be an error to assume that this is the case for all single moms. My getting knocked up was purely a result of extremely poor and irresponsible decision making. I attempted to make the relationship with the father work but was not successful. (Also my fault for my poor judgement in picking a partner) As a person with an ACE score of 6 (maybe 7), I am not that shocked that I've had a history of destructive decision making. I say that not as a defense or for sympathy, but as my own recognition to the fact that when your internal GPS is flawed and the maps are wrong, you are going to take a few wrong turns. I'm crushed that it took bringing a little human into the world for me to realize this & to change course. "I'm a guy who has lacked a father my entire life, so I figure you should know exactly the kind of mental anguish women like yourself often bring upon your children. When I think about my dad, I feel like I'm being suffocated under a blanket of numbness that I can't claw out of. " I'm so sorry you went through this. It sounds terrible. I did have a two parent household but that is not always better in every case. One of my lasting memories of my father is of him shutting windows & the screen glass door so that the neighbors wouldn't hear my screams for him to help as my mother straddled herself on top of myself choking me. I'm still undoing the damages of a father who sat by in silence while his children were pummeled by his psychotic wife. I don't know if because of this past of mine I am now broken & unworthy of love. In the six years since her father & I split up, I have dated one man that lasted for maybe two months. He was what I perceived to be a good man but I had to end it because I couldn't juggle a relationship with the duties of being a mom & attending school. This was three years ago and I gotta tell you, I'm not sure if my decision to remain single is necessarily in the best interest of my daughter. (She is actually urging me to meet a nice man that likes kids and animals) I have not yet attained perfect self-knowledge & virtue, but when I get a little closer to it I just might put myself out there and be open to dating again. I don't expect to date some perfect man who has made zero bad decisions in his life, but maybe I'll meet one in a similar boat as mine who has perhaps come from a broken past but seeks a different future. 1
PatrickC Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 My albeit anecdotal experience is that they were often mollycoddled by their mothers and rather insecure around women of their own age. Often older women would approach them. So they rarely took risks with females as most men do.
FreedomPhilosophy Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 My albeit anecdotal experience is that they were often mollycoddled by their mothers and rather insecure around women of their own age. Often older women would approach them. So they rarely took risks with females as most men do. With a teenage mum, I would expect he was neglected not coddled. It's hard not to think that this would produce a tendency to seek mother replacements.
inquirius Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 "Frankly, you chose the "alpha f*cks, beta bucks" model of reproduction and came up snake eyes" That mentality is truly foreign to me and I can assure you was not the case in my situation. I think it would be an error to assume that this is the case for all single moms. My getting knocked up was purely a result of extremely poor and irresponsible decision making. I attempted to make the relationship with the father work but was not successful. (Also my fault for my poor judgement in picking a partner) As a person with an ACE score of 6 (maybe 7), I am not that shocked that I've had a history of destructive decision making. I say that not as a defense or for sympathy, but as my own recognition to the fact that when your internal GPS is flawed and the maps are wrong, you are going to take a few wrong turns. I'm crushed that it took bringing a little human into the world for me to realize this & to change course. No, it IS the case in your situation, and here's why: 1. You had sex with a man that your subconscious instincts lusted after, as most women do. 2. You had his child and he left. 3. Any man that fills that role is not only the wrong man for the job, but is demeaned and insulted to be supporting, in any way, a child that is not his own. Whether or not you were aware of the term I use is irrelevant, because it's the reality of your situation. ALL single mothers who date inherently lower the value of whoever they date because of the new man's relationship to the mother's child and because of the quality of sex. That is, even if you're dating just for sex, the common perception is that women who have given birth have looser vaginas than those who have not (exercises and age of motherhood determines how true that is). Be it a casual or long-term relationship, single mothers are lower value than women who are not single mothers. The only roughly fair deal would be the exact situation you say you aren't "thrilled about," i.e., "dating a man with kids." The fact that you say, "I am not thrilled at the thought of dating a man with kids," really proves to me that you consider yourself higher value than a man of the exact same circumstances, and that's misandry whether you intended it to be or not. The reality is that you are lower value than a single man with no children, which is why you are having a hard time finding single men with no children; you are about the same value as a single father, which is who you should really consider dating. And that is only if that single father proves himself to be a good person.
Walter E. Strong Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 "Do you think that he thinks he is not good enough for child free women? Or that he suffers form of some white knight syndrome - to "save" these single mothers or their children?" I suspect that "saving" single mothers has a lot to do with relieving them of their sexual frustrations!
FreedomPhilosophy Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 That is, even if you're dating just for sex, the common perception is that women who have given birth have looser vaginas than those who have not (exercises and age of motherhood determines how true that is). Be it a casual or long-term relationship, single mothers are lower value than women who are not single mothers. I find these remarks odd, looser vagina tends to mean that sex lasts longer and can move into deeper and more satisfying states. Young women with tight pussy just make one cum sooner. And how does one objectively define value? There is much more to attraction than reproductive value. Some men value a woman who is experienced or may have other qualities that most other women don't have. People are going to weigh up the whole package, not just age and parental status. Some people are exceptional in other ways. I value maturity, emotional wellness and sexual positivity which are qualities I don't experience in a lot of women.
mahayana Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 No, it IS the case in your situation, and here's why: 1. You had sex with a man that your subconscious instincts lusted after, as most women do. 2. You had his child and he left. 3. Any man that fills that role is not only the wrong man for the job, but is demeaned and insulted to be supporting, in any way, a child that is not his own. 1. NO, this was not at all the case. I honestly wasn't attracted to the guy physically. He was a nice guy that had been pursuing me for years. I wanted to break the cycle of disastrous relationships & decided to give it a shot with someone who was very different from what I'd typically date. (That obviously didn't work out well) To me this is irrelevant though. 2. agree 3. That's fine if that is your opinion, it's just very different from mine. Even if I didn't have a child, I would never consider it demeaning or insulting to date a man w/children. Who said anything about supporting? My child only relies on two people to support her & that is her father & I. Her needs are very well taken care of. ""Frankly, you chose the "alpha f*cks, beta bucks" model of reproduction" What I took from your model of reproduction is that you are insinuating I fucked an alpha & expected a beta to foot the bill. I've never been or wanted to be supported by any man & I don't expect to change anytime soon. I respect your opinion that single moms have lower value than that of non-single moms. I have a different way of quantifying relationship value & mine just doesn't deduct points for past actions so long as the individual recognizes their errors & has taken steps to rectify the situation. "The only roughly fair deal would be the exact situation you say you aren't "thrilled about," i.e., "dating a man with kids." The fact that you say, "I am not thrilled at the thought of dating a man with kids," really proves to me that you consider yourself higher value than a man of the exact same circumstances, and that's misandry whether you intended it to be or not." Ha, I'm an admitted misogynist (working on this) but the misandry certainly wasn't intended. When I said I'm not thrilled to date a man with kids I specifically meant the part about having to deal with the ex in our lives. The majority of single dads I've come across have terrible relationships with their exes & seem to have endless drama. I'm definitely not expecting single men to be interested in me (although the majority that have asked me out are single) I really have no expectations whatsoever. ALL single mothers who date inherently lower the value of whoever they date because of the new man's relationship to the mother's child and because of the quality of sex. That is, even if you're dating just for sex, the common perception is that women who have given birth have looser vaginas than those who have not (exercises and age of motherhood determines how true that is). Be it a casual or long-term relationship, single mothers are lower value than women who are not single mothers. I don't think I agree with you on the lowered value due to quality of sex part. I would lump a loose vagina in with physical preferences regardless of whether the woman had a kid or not. There are plenty of factors that contribute to quality of sex that have nothing to do with child birthing. I'm really not familiar enough with postpartum vaginal elasticity (vaginal elasticity is my new favorite word) to know whether this is a common occurrence!
inquirius Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 I find these remarks odd, looser vagina tends to mean that sex lasts longer and can move into deeper and more satisfying states. Young women with tight pussy just make one cum sooner. And how does one objectively define value? There is much more to attraction than reproductive value. Some men value a woman who is experienced or may have other qualities that most other women don't have. People are going to weigh up the whole package, not just age and parental status. Some people are exceptional in other ways. I value maturity, emotional wellness and sexual positivity which are qualities I don't experience in a lot of women. Uh, sex can last pretty long with tight women, assuming you exercise some self control, and it's satisfying all the time. Do I really need to get into the visceral reasons of why tight women are more sexually satisfying than loose women? I mean, unless you're hung like a fire hose and literally can't have sex with normal birth canals, I don't see the appeal of loose vaginas. Who knows, maybe you're the next Jonah Falcon. Even if I accept your notion that there's value in attraction outside of reproduction, there's certainly none in being a single mom. Single moms in particular are immaturity, emotional sickness, and sexual negativity in action, because a woman with those reverse qualities would not put herself at risk for pregnancy with someone she either doesn't know well enough, or knows is unreliable. And Mahayana, part of the problem with this single mother based society is the exact fact that people are so easily forgiven for their past mistakes. Forgiveness means nothing to women in particular, because even making a massive, permanent screw up like being a single mom is forgivable in their mind, and that is because they do not empathize with the plight of their own child. Imagine that you are your child and consider if he or she would want to be in a single parent "family" or a real family. You say she's "very well provided for," but that's bullshit unless you are living with the father and the father is doing the job of being a father. And by the definition of being a single mother, that is not happening, and your child is not well provided for in that extremely important way. This isn't even touching upon the fact that single mothers are huge recipients of welfare and benefits, which is an act of aggression towards the citizens of whatever nation you happen to live in. Yet another evil that single mothers disproportionately commit, among so many others, and you all wonder why Stefan, I, and rational people view single mothers with such disdain. 1
mahayana Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 And Mahayana, part of the problem with this single mother based society is the exact fact that people are so easily forgiven for their past mistakes. Forgiveness means nothing to women in particular, because even making a massive, permanent screw up like being a single mom is forgivable in their mind, and that is because they do not empathize with the plight of their own child. Imagine that you are your child and consider if he or she would want to be in a single parent "family" or a real family. You say she's "very well provided for," but that's bullshit unless you are living with the father and the father is doing the job of being a father. And by the definition of being a single mother, that is not happening, and your child is not well provided for in that extremely important way. YES, I agree with you on this. When I said she is well provided for I meant financially. Any man I potentially date in the future wouldn't have to wonder if I was using him to support my child. I realize the damage being done to her as a result of being without a father on a daily basis. This is my fault. I don't take this lightly, sorry if I portrayed myself as if I did. "you all wonder why Stefan, I, and rational people view single mothers with such disdain." It might seem like a conflict of interest with me being a single mom myself but I fully understand the destructiveness single motherhood plays on society. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't in agreement with those views. 3
inquirius Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 YES, I agree with you on this. When I said she is well provided for I meant financially. Any man I potentially date in the future wouldn't have to wonder if I was using him to support my child. I realize the damage being done to her as a result of being without a father on a daily basis. This is my fault. I don't take this lightly, sorry if I portrayed myself as if I did. "you all wonder why Stefan, I, and rational people view single mothers with such disdain." It might seem like a conflict of interest with me being a single mom myself but I fully understand the destructiveness single motherhood plays on society. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't in agreement with those views. Ultimately, you as a single mother have no reason to care whether or not a conflict of interest exists between your values and your actions, if you accept any government benefits for your position. In that case, you are the aggressor and use the threat of violence of the state to take what you need from other working citizens, like myself. I think I've said my piece; single mothers are low status, they lower the status of the men they date, they use the might and violence of the state to subsidize their terrible decisions, and they form the foundation for a society that is more violent and callous than before. Add in the potential for poor sex, and I don't see any redeeming factors as to why a single man with no children can, in informed conscience, date a single mom. Thinking with the big head instead of the little head is not very hard in this case. 1
Frosty Posted January 28, 2016 Posted January 28, 2016 I'm wondering what motivates such men, why don't they go after single women, or could it just be that the woman is perceived as more attractive/available? I think the same thing that motivates the average man to go after the average woman. Loneliness, desire for intimacy, desire for sex. I like that Stefan tends to back men who are going their own way as a rational choice, and I like that he see's there are good women out there, but the whole rational philosophy thing is a lonely game because I'd argue that the good men interested in this kind of thing out weigh the good women. Bottom line is that not everyone can have a good partner it's just not mathematically possible, as a global strategy for men to work on themselves to make themselves attractive to good women, all you face is ever increasing expectations and goals as you're pitted against other men doing the same. So people settle rather than being lonely, I see it all the time around me with friends. It seems like we discuss in the FDR community how to find good people and what to look for, but what I don't see is people discussing the bigger picture that until we can raise most people are rational and interested in philosophy and self improvement there's a limited supply of good these people and some people are forced to either settle or go without and human biology tells us most people will settle. I consider myself lucky that I'm a stoic person who can handle living alone and without contact from the other sex, I do have friends who pretty much fall apart without another half and that has to be an awful burden, especially if you're the guy who ends up with the older women who are divorced and struggling to raise children alone. 2
FreedomPhilosophy Posted January 29, 2016 Author Posted January 29, 2016 Bottom line is that not everyone can have a good partner it's just not mathematically possible, as a global strategy for men to work on themselves to make themselves attractive to good women, all you face is ever increasing expectations and goals as you're pitted against other men doing the same. That's what I see, women who have a high sense self worth have a high level of expectations for their partners. The bar rises for men all the time, expectations increase for men, but it seems to lower for women. The time where men just had to have an income and basically be a nice guy is gone. Now the expectation is for a sort of new age superman. Meanwhile the old ideas of what a woman needed to be, loyal to her family, hard working and faithful to her partner have all gone - replaced by what? What is the corresponding new age woman - some kind of feminist, ethical slut or what? 1
AccuTron Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 Heehee, I knew there were a couple of us on the boards here. I learn something new every day....
Copper_Heart Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 ... you all wonder why Stefan, I, and rational people view single mothers with such disdain. I doubt that if Stefan has a "such disdain" about single mothers if he did he would not host a self-knowledge talk show. You on other hand have a strangely grim desire to rub it into a person who already agreed with you, judge an in divide by statistics and reproach her for every sin she had or had not committed. Single motherhood will not be solved by pouring boiled oil onto peoples heads. There is nothing "reasonable" about your attitude, if not fervently religious. Reasonable would be try to understand why she did that, how to prevent that in the future and how to alleviate damage that was done for the children. At some point bashing has to stop. What about you? Why do you have such a strong emotion? 1
inquirius Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 I doubt that if Stefan has a "such disdain" about single mothers if he did he would not host a self-knowledge talk show. You on other hand have a strangely grim desire to rub it into a person who already agreed with you, judge an in divide by statistics and reproach her for every sin she had or had not committed. Single motherhood will not be solved by pouring boiled oil onto peoples heads. There is nothing "reasonable" about your attitude, if not fervently religious. Reasonable would be try to understand why she did that, how to prevent that in the future and how to alleviate damage that was done for the children. At some point bashing has to stop. What about you? Why do you have such a strong emotion? Address my exact arguments, or I will not have a discussion with you. I do not answer to strawmen.
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