Homeschooling

[Jaeger]

I'm interested if anybody on this forum homeschooling their kids and what you are doing.  

 

I have eight kids so I'm trying to find some sort of  curriculum that can cover all the ages and all the subjects.  About the only subject I found a good curriculum is math ,we are using teaching text books.  My wife was unschooled as a child so for the most part that is what we have been doing.  While I like unschooling for some subjects, for math, science and history I would prefer a little more structure. A lot of the stuff out there is christian based, and I'm not a big fan of creationism.

 

Any ideas would help.

 

Thanks Paul

[algernon]

Have you looked into the Ron Paul curriculum? http://www.ronpaulcurriculum.com/

 

I've heard good things but have not personally looked into it (yet).

 

I was homeschooled my entire childhood, I can emphatically say most of it was a waste of time. Much beyond the basics to an uninterested student, it is all memorized, regurgitated then forgotten.

 

I've looked into the trivium concept of learning, I plan on researching it more as my daughter gets closer to "school" age. My goal with her is to find what she is interested in and then learn all of the details of whatever it may be, and how it might work, which will lead to other avenues of interest and continued learning.

 

From an essay on the Trivium -

 

 

“What use is it to pile task on task and prolong the days of labor, if at the close the chief object is left unattained? It is not the fault of the teachers–they work only too hard already. The combined folly of a civilization that has forgotten its own roots is forcing them to shore up the tottering weight of an educational structure that is built upon sand. They are doing for their pupils the work which the pupils themselves ought to do. For the sole true end of education is simply this: to teach men how to learn for themselves; and whatever instruction fails to do this is effort spent in vain.” http://www.gbt.org/text/sayers.html

[Jaeger]

Thanks algernon.  I will look into Ron Paul's curriculum.  I'll keep you all posted on what I find.   Love the quote too.  That is exactly what I want to teach my kids, how to learn for themselves.

[tasmlab]

We homeschool our kids.  From what I can tell, the curriculum seems mostly to be "Minecraft". ;-)

[Jaeger]

We homeschool our kids.  From what I can tell, the curriculum seems mostly to be "Minecraft". ;-)

lol.  My kids are expert in that subject too. 

[Matthew Ed Moran]

I agree, teach them to learn. Don't just tell them conclusions, as that is inherently authoritative and boring.

 

In the early years it seems children will learn most of what they need to simply by witnessing you model the value of learning in your time with them. One on one conversations are always great and you can gently introduce math, science, writing or anything else in your daily activities. Have them make a grocery list and estimate the costs is just a simple idea.

 

I think the most important thing is to model the value of learning to them. Adults don't learn for the sake of learning; they learn because it will improve their lives. Either it will teach them a useful skill, or it is inherently enjoyable and worth investing in.

 

I am skeptical of the word "school" for children, since school of any kind seems so antithetical to learning. School seems to be this made up term where learning is separated from living, because in school you're learning for the state, not for yourself.

 

If you do lessons from the book, do not even bring the text into the mix. You should get a grip on the material beforehand, and then plan a day at a walking trail or something fun and interesting. Give them a list of things to be aware of, and then you could test them the next day or at the end of the week about the maths or science that were present in their very experience.

 

I imagine taking my kids on a walk, explaining the biology, the ecosystem, and easily making a math problem out of the accounts of animals or plants you witness.

 

Simple fun and carefree things when they are young, and as much individual attention as possible, will model the value of learning, which they will then adopt and be more curious to explore independently (but still with your involvement since you should be the expert with more experience they can rely on) learning on their own with increasingly advanced topics.

 

I have a 125 or 130 IQ and school was miserable for me because I felt tremendous pressure and criticism. I have a deep seated hatred for the lie I was told and which caused me endless anxiety and depression, which was that school had a fucking thing to do with anything other than pleasing my masters. When high school ended and I realized there was no oncoming train that would hit me because I failed practically every class I'd taken beforehand years in a row (and dropped out to get a GED), I was stunned. I was stunned to realize the possibilities were endless for me to be successful, and that I had 18  years stripped from me, and was put through an emotional holocaust, only to find out none of it was necessary, and that it was the opposite of necessary.

 

I feel very strongly and hateful of what I was put through, given my talents and standardized test scores, which indicated I was in the top 2% of all students by the time I was in kindergarten or first grade. All that meant for me was that I was told I was lazy and defiant on the report cards when I couldn't bare the boredom of the "schooling" they tried to force on me.

 

Hopefully sharing how damaging that institutional pressure was for me will encourage you to think about making it less like school and more like productive living (in the sense that the child feels personal accomplishment and enjoyment but is also challenged).

 

Oh, also make sure to negotiate and offer them extra goodies (like more choice over their lessons or just a nice time with Dad) if there is something specific you want them to learn. But individual attention and as much choice as possible are key.

 

I think you'll do great and I really admire the consideration you're giving to your children. The true heroes are the peaceful parents as Stefan said.

[Jaeger]

In the early years it seems children will learn most of what they need to simply by witnessing you model the value of learning in your time with them. One on one conversations are always great and you can gently introduce math, science, writing or anything else in your daily activities. Have them make a grocery list and estimate the costs is just a simple idea.

 

I think the most important thing is to model the value of learning to them. Adults don't learn for the sake of learning; they learn because it will improve their lives. Either it will teach them a useful skill, or it is inherently enjoyable and worth investing in.

I agree kids learn by example and being a good model for them is paramount.  Thank you for reminding me about the importance of one on one time.  Me and my wife seem to focus more on the younger ones.  I do try to take each of my kids individually out to eat or to do something fun with them once a month.  That time I never thought about as educational.  You are so right the things we do everyday can be educational.  I guess my problem I want to separate  school time from the rest of the day.  Most likely because that was how public school indoctrinated me.

 

I am skeptical of the word "school" for children, since school of any kind seems so antithetical to learning. School seems to be this made up term where learning is separated from living, because in school you're learning for the state, not for yourself.

"Free range learning" may be a better term?  Which is really probably just a form of free play.

 

If you do lessons from the book, do not even bring the text into the mix. You should get a grip on the material beforehand, and then plan a day at a walking trail or something fun and interesting. Give them a list of things to be aware of, and then you could test them the next day or at the end of the week about the maths or science that were present in their very experience.

 

I imagine taking my kids on a walk, explaining the biology, the ecosystem, and easily making a math problem out of the accounts of animals or plants you witness.

 

Simple fun and carefree things when they are young, and as much individual attention as possible, will model the value of learning, which they will then adopt and be more curious to explore independently (but still with your involvement since you should be the expert with more experience they can rely on) learning on their own with increasingly advanced topics.

I think that is a wonderful Idea.  There is a couple of nature trails not to far from where I live.  One of them is shorter so would be ideal for the younger ones, while the longer one would be Ideal for the older ones.

 

I have a 125 or 130 IQ and school was miserable for me because I felt tremendous pressure and criticism. I have a deep seated hatred for the lie I was told and which caused me endless anxiety and depression, which was that school had a fucking thing to do with anything other than pleasing my masters. When high school ended and I realized there was no oncoming train that would hit me because I failed practically every class I'd taken beforehand years in a row (and dropped out to get a GED), I was stunned. I was stunned to realize the possibilities were endless for me to be successful, and that I had 18  years stripped from me, and was put through an emotional holocaust, only to find out none of it was necessary, and that it was the opposite of necessary.

 

I feel very strongly and hateful of what I was put through, given my talents and standardized test scores, which indicated I was in the top 2% of all students by the time I was in kindergarten or first grade. All that meant for me was that I was told I was lazy and defiant on the report cards when I couldn't bare the boredom of the "schooling" they tried to force on me.

 

Hopefully sharing how damaging that institutional pressure was for me will encourage you to think about making it less like school and more like productive living (in the sense that the child feels personal accomplishment and enjoyment but is also challenged).

Wow.  I think you just described my junior high and high school years.  I remember back in the 80's in my high school 60% of a grade was based on home work.  While I would get A's on the tests I would never do my homework so I ended up getting D's or F's.  I also did well on the standard test that California required.  My junior year, the last year I went to high school,  I got 5 F's and an A.  The A being in Art which was mainly done in class.  I got the lazy word a lot from my teachers as well.  My theory was if I already know the material why do I need to waste my time doing busy work.   I went and and took the California High School Proficiency Exam (CHSPE)  which is basically the GED that you can take as a minor in California so instead of staying in high school I was able to start at the local Junior College.  The grades there were almost exclusively based on the tests and major projects so I didn't have to do a bunch of busy work.

 

Oh, also make sure to negotiate and offer them extra goodies (like more choice over their lessons or just a nice time with Dad) if there is something specific you want them to learn. But individual attention and as much choice as possible are key.

I think free choice is very important.  That was my main turn-off about school was the lack of choice.  You have given me a lot of things to think about and I sure appreciate it. Tomorrow is our weekly family meeting so I think I'll write down some of my thoughts and see what the kids think.

 

I think you'll do great and I really admire the consideration you're giving to your children. The true heroes are the peaceful parents as Stefan said.

Thank you so much for the kind words and the words of confidence.  The feeling is mutual.

[SarahHurn]

I'm home with my two children 8 and 4 and we don't use a curriculum, but go with the unschooling model/philosophy. It's working fantastically and the kids are happy and interested in all sorts of things and we just love sharing our days together. Forcing a curriculum on your children will likely create power struggles, win-lose situations and do damage to the relationship. Unschooling is about trusting children and their natural curiosity and want for learning, it doesn't need to be forced. With information at our fingertips with the internet it seems ludicrous that children are still forced to memorise facts and dates at school. I've found that once my children find a passion it's a case of 'get out the way' because they won't stop until they've exhausted it and this is where good unschooling parenting comes into it too, where you can partner with your child so they can get the most out of their interests and introduce new ideas they maybe hadn't thought of.

Done right, unschooling produces very closely bonded families. All the best!

[Jaeger]

Hi Sarah,

 

Thank you so much for replying.   I'm really happy to hear you are unschooling.   I am slowly realizing that kids learn at their own pace and in their own way.  I was at first worried about some of their math skills but have come to the realization its not right for me to expect my right brained kids to be left brained.  My son who is 16 doesn't really enjoy math but loves writing and drawing and comes up with some of the most amazing designs of things he would want to build in the future.  His 11 year old sister is exactly the same way and when they get together they will write stories then illustrate them.  My 14 year old daughter loves math she will do 4 lessons a day.  She finished one year course in 6 months and is now working on the next year.  She aspires to learn medicine and will watch courses on anatomy.  She draws diagrams of lungs, heart and other organs.  You are correct about them finding passion in what they learning.  Their desire to learn is contagious in fact it was one of the contributing factors that made me want to learn more about anarchism/libertarianism.  That led me to FDR that lead me to peaceful parenting and now self knowledge.

 

You are correct about the bond that is formed not just with us as parents but as siblings also.  They all play together regardless of age.  My 16 year old son will make up games for his 2 and 4 year old brothers.  I'm amazed at the patience he has with his siblings.  In public school they force kids into classes with kids their same age so they never learn how to associate and play with kids of different ages.  Once we pulled all our kids out of school a couple of years ago and the bickering in our home decreased tremendously.   We actually pulled my son out 4 years ago but the 3 oldest girls we kept in public school.  Myself being a product of public school I had to unschool myself in this process.  Luckily my wife and mother-in -law have been a big help in bringing me around.

 

I was diagnose with Meniere's disease about 8 years ago so have been working from home most of those 8 years.  My wife is a stay at home mom so my kids have been lucky to have both of us home during the day.  Why I hate my disability, and wouldn't wish it on anybody, I would not trade the last couple of years at home with my kids.  I also want to add as I have shown interest in their dreams and desires they have reciprocated with a desire to learn what I'm interested in.  For example my 16 and 14 year wanted to go with me to a meet-up with Voluntaryists of Dallas.  They learned more about anarcho-capitalism and even bitcoin.  The next day my son researched bitcoin and wrote a paper on it, so I was really stoked.  It was an hour drive each way to the meet-up so the conversation was just outstanding and I really think we created a great bond.

 

For those who are interested my family it consist as follows:

 

Me       45     Work from home dad.  I code for a living mainly working with back-end interfaces.

wife     38     Stay at home mom.

son      16     Loves minecraft, reading, writing and art.  Wants to be an inventor.  Also wants to do his own you tube show.

daughter 14     Loves ferrets, math, anatomy , science in general, singing and running.

daughter 11     Loves foxes ( wants to live in a state that allows them as pets), ferrets, reading, writing and art.  she wants to be a writer. 

​daughter  9     Loves animals in general,  wants to be a veterinarian when she grows up.  she is very tender-hearted and will consul who ever is sad or hurt.

daughter  7     Very artistic.  She made a full size doll house out of copy paper staples and tape.  she also loves foxes and ferrets.

son       4     Loves puzzles and already wants to learn how to read and count.  He will probably be like me and his 14 year old sister and be very left brain.

son       2     He loves outdoors and throwing balls.  Most like his mom especially like some of his uncles (Wife's brothers).  He will probably be the athlete in the family.

daughter  5 mo. Loves her daddy, definitely a daddy's girl.

[SarahHurn]

Hey Jaeger, your kids all sound very intelligent and interesting. It will be great as my kids grow to witness how their interests develop organically.

 

 

A bit about my background: I was bought up in a closed fundamentalist Christian group which my husband and I started detaching from 8 years ago. I had a very strange and abusive childhood. I was stuck for 6 years before I read an unschooling book by Dana Martin and started listening to FDR about the same time (2.5 years ago). Something instantly attracted me to both and it was only a matter of weeks before I pulled my then 6 year old daughter from school. We have worked hard to bring our family back together after some really hard times as we left the relgion, and after listening to FDR and getting more into philosophy, leaving our families too who are all apart of this very damaging group.

As I've been trying to define my values for the first time, without the involvement of religion, I've found FDR to be a life line, I have learnt how to think more logically about many things in my life like parenting and marriage and finances. The unschooling group is good for the ideas but some other suggestions I'm finding conflict with my new values and with philosophy.

If you don't mind me asking, how long have you been listening to FDR?

Best regards,

Sarah

Jaeger, I'm also sorry to hear about your disease, I googled it as I didn't know what it was. It's great you can see the positives like being able to stay home, despite their being negatives too I'm sure.

[Jaeger]

Sarah,

 

I'm so sorry about the abusive childhood.  I can only imagine the turmoil that was caused by leaving your church and family.  I'm glad to hear that you and your husband have survived the fallout.  I can only imagine that it has made you stronger as a couple and as parents.

 

I haven't heard of Dana Martin so I googled her name with unschooling.  I did see a Dayna Martin come up.  Is this who you meant?  She seems very interesting.  An anarchist too.

 

I started listening to Stefan a little less than a year ago.  I happened upon him while researching anarcho-capitalism.  The peaceful parenting concept he promoted just resonated with me so I wanted to learn more.  I'm just now starting on my journey of gaining self-knowledge and learning more about philosophy.

[SarahHurn]

Yes, wrong spelling on my part, it's Dayna Martin, yes that's who I meant. She hosted one of the FDR call in shows in March 2013.

 

//I'm just now starting on my journey of gaining self-knowledge and learning more about philosophy.//

 

That's great, I am too.

 

I'm so grateful to have found this path by people willing to speak up from experience and from having a passion for peaceful parenting.

[Frederik]

I agree, teach them to learn. Don't just tell them conclusions, as that is inherently authoritative and boring.

 

In the early years it seems children will learn most of what they need to simply by witnessing you model the value of learning in your time with them. One on one conversations are always great and you can gently introduce math, science, writing or anything else in your daily activities. Have them make a grocery list and estimate the costs is just a simple idea.

 

I think the most important thing is to model the value of learning to them. Adults don't learn for the sake of learning; they learn because it will improve their lives. Either it will teach them a useful skill, or it is inherently enjoyable and worth investing in.

 

I am skeptical of the word "school" for children, since school of any kind seems so antithetical to learning. School seems to be this made up term where learning is separated from living, because in school you're learning for the state, not for yourself.

 

If you do lessons from the book, do not even bring the text into the mix. You should get a grip on the material beforehand, and then plan a day at a walking trail or something fun and interesting. Give them a list of things to be aware of, and then you could test them the next day or at the end of the week about the maths or science that were present in their very experience.

 

I imagine taking my kids on a walk, explaining the biology, the ecosystem, and easily making a math problem out of the accounts of animals or plants you witness.

 

Simple fun and carefree things when they are young, and as much individual attention as possible, will model the value of learning, which they will then adopt and be more curious to explore independently (but still with your involvement since you should be the expert with more experience they can rely on) learning on their own with increasingly advanced topics.

This! I love it! Wonderful.

 

Fuck schooling, make life a constant learning experience that it really is!

 

It's so funny that I only saw at the end that it was you who wrote that post, while reading I thought "This is great stuff, this guy has figured it out! What a great guy. His children must be the happiest kids ever!" It's interesting to me that I assumed you were a dad, overreading the "I imagine". I think that speaks to your potential as a future father, to "understate" quite a bit

 

I am very sorry to hear about your schooling experience, though. It is truly heartbreaking what millions of natural geniuses like you have to go through in the modern gulags of the state! No way my kids will ever even come close to one of those scary buildings blocks, let alone one of those horrific maniacs who manipulate and break wonderfully kind and curious souls five days a week!

 

I really liked reading this thread. Thanks for starting and sharing to all

[Jaeger]

Yes, wrong spelling on my part, it's Dayna Martin, yes that's who I meant. She hosted one of the FDR call in shows in March 2013.

 

//I'm just now starting on my journey of gaining self-knowledge and learning more about philosophy.//

 

That's great, I am too.

 

I'm so grateful to have found this path by people willing to speak up from experience and from having a passion for peaceful parenting.

Yes I noticed she has been on quite a few times.  I really like what she has to offer.  I'm actually considering  contacting her for consultations.  I love how she combines it with peaceful parenting.  I feel like I'm so far behind the 8 ball on parenting.  I wished I jumped on the unschooling from the beginning.  I cant turn back time so all I can do is rectify what I'm doing wrong and pay restitution to any of  my kids that I have harmed in any way as a parent, and keep moving forward in my pursuit of self knowledge.  I have a feeling peaceful parenting will be much easier after that.

 

This! I love it! Wonderful.

 

Fuck schooling, make life a constant learning experience that it really is!

 

It's so funny that I only saw at the end that it was you who wrote that post, while reading I thought "This is great stuff, this guy has figured it out! What a great guy. His children must be the happiest kids ever!" It's interesting to me that I assumed you were a dad, overreading the "I imagine". I think that speaks to your potential as a future father, to "understate" quite a bit

 

I am very sorry to hear about your schooling experience, though. It is truly heartbreaking what millions of natural geniuses like you have to go through in the modern gulags of the state! No way my kids will ever even come close to one of those scary buildings blocks, let alone one of those horrific maniacs who manipulate and break wonderfully kind and curious souls five days a week!

 

I really liked reading this thread. Thanks for starting and sharing to all

I agree Mathew has some of the best and most enlightening posts.  As do you  .  

[Matthew Ed Moran]

Thank you I appreciate the feedback. 

[AncapFTW]

Hi Sarah,

 

Thank you so much for replying.   I'm really happy to hear you are unschooling.   I am slowly realizing that kids learn at their own pace and in their own way.  I was at first worried about some of their math skills but have come to the realization its not right for me to expect my right brained kids to be left brained.  My son who is 16 doesn't really enjoy math but loves writing and drawing and comes up with some of the most amazing designs of things he would want to build in the future.  His 11 year old sister is exactly the same way and when they get together they will write stories then illustrate them.  My 14 year old daughter loves math she will do 4 lessons a day.  She finished one year course in 6 months and is now working on the next year.  She aspires to learn medicine and will watch courses on anatomy.  She draws diagrams of lungs, heart and other organs.  You are correct about them finding passion in what they learning.  Their desire to learn is contagious in fact it was one of the contributing factors that made me want to learn more about anarchism/libertarianism.  That led me to FDR that lead me to peaceful parenting and now self knowledge.

 

You are correct about the bond that is formed not just with us as parents but as siblings also.  They all play together regardless of age.  My 16 year old son will make up games for his 2 and 4 year old brothers.  I'm amazed at the patience he has with his siblings.  In public school they force kids into classes with kids their same age so they never learn how to associate and play with kids of different ages.  Once we pulled all our kids out of school a couple of years ago and the bickering in our home decreased tremendously.   We actually pulled my son out 4 years ago but the 3 oldest girls we kept in public school.  Myself being a product of public school I had to unschool myself in this process.  Luckily my wife and mother-in -law have been a big help in bringing me around.

 

I was diagnose with Meniere's disease about 8 years ago so have been working from home most of those 8 years.  My wife is a stay at home mom so my kids have been lucky to have both of us home during the day.  Why I hate my disability, and wouldn't wish it on anybody, I would not trade the last couple of years at home with my kids.  I also want to add as I have shown interest in their dreams and desires they have reciprocated with a desire to learn what I'm interested in.  For example my 16 and 14 year wanted to go with me to a meet-up with Voluntaryists of Dallas.  They learned more about anarcho-capitalism and even bitcoin.  The next day my son researched bitcoin and wrote a paper on it, so I was really stoked.  It was an hour drive each way to the meet-up so the conversation was just outstanding and I really think we created a great bond.

 

For those who are interested my family it consist as follows:

 

Me       45     Work from home dad.  I code for a living mainly working with back-end interfaces.

wife     38     Stay at home mom.

son      16     Loves minecraft, reading, writing and art.  Wants to be an inventor.  Also wants to do his own you tube show.

daughter 14     Loves ferrets, math, anatomy , science in general, singing and running.

daughter 11     Loves foxes ( wants to live in a state that allows them as pets), ferrets, reading, writing and art.  she wants to be a writer. 

​daughter  9     Loves animals in general,  wants to be a veterinarian when she grows up.  she is very tender-hearted and will consul who ever is sad or hurt.

daughter  7     Very artistic.  She made a full size doll house out of copy paper staples and tape.  she also loves foxes and ferrets.

son       4     Loves puzzles and already wants to learn how to read and count.  He will probably be like me and his 14 year old sister and be very left brain.

son       2     He loves outdoors and throwing balls.  Most like his mom especially like some of his uncles (Wife's brothers).  He will probably be the athlete in the family.

daughter  5 mo. Loves her daddy, definitely a daddy's girl.

Just wandering if he had any interest in learning programming.  I recently started looking into trying to make a game.  I'd probably release a few simple ones for free or cheap to get the practice and publicity, then try to make a more complex one to put on steam.  If you think he's interested, I could send you links to the people on youtube I'm watching to learn.  The software I'm using is also free, assuming you don't make at least 100k USD per year making games.

[Jaeger]

Just wandering if he had any interest in learning programming.  I recently started looking into trying to make a game.  I'd probably release a few simple ones for free or cheap to get the practice and publicity, then try to make a more complex one to put on steam.  If you think he's interested, I could send you links to the people on youtube I'm watching to learn.  The software I'm using is also free, assuming you don't make at least 100k USD per year making games.

Yes my son would be very interested.  

[RationalPenguin]

I was thinking of ways to teach children by using the things they like the most. Personally I learned a lot of English and a bit of math from playing Pokemon and talking about it online in my teens. I also loved chess as a child, as I still do, and I wondered if it might be possible to teach about probability using chess with questions like "How many possible legal positions are there for only 2 kings?" and "If one player has a pawn and the other only his king, what is the chance that the person with the pawn can win?"

 

How's your progress been so far?

[brucethecollie]

I am pretty new to unschooling/homeschooling.  My son and daughter are six and I just try to engage them in activities they like all day and we have discovered that while they like choosing and planning what they want to do, we all appreciate a certain level of routine and structure.  So, I get up and do the same house cleaning each morning and also keep meal times in place. I read before bed each night. That bit of structure helps me keep things running but also is limited to that because I recognize the kids like to feel free to follow their interests.

 

I can recall countless moments while growing up when I would sit in the school classroom and wish I was finishing a book at home or climbing a tree or redoing a fun science experiment or learning to cook something. As an adult, I realize it works just fine how on certain days I'm in the mood for something and that is the moment to harness that motivation and put it to use. It's harder when the moment passes. I'm sure the same happens to kids so giving them their necessities in a ritualistic kind of way (puts ones mind at ease to always know when food is coming, as one example) but then giving plenty of leeway for the random way in which kids suddenly get a light bulb moment or really want to figure something out and allowing for that to be satiated instead of interrupted seems to be working well for us so far.  I really have appreciated this thread and all the comments.

[regevdl]

My kids are in public school.  The country we are in it's virtually impossible to homeschool but I supplement with homeschooling and during the summer.  I bring that up to mention my advice is not based on some state-approved method or curriculum but I would recomment Ron Paul's home-schooling.  I also have bought the books

 

What Happened to Penny Candy
Liberty Island 

Capitalism for Kids

 

During the summer I have a curriculum to sit wit them in the morning to help them with their English, do some art and creativity/science (best in the morning hours), so some physical exercise...learning gymnastics/baseball etc and one other subject changes daily and then the rest of the afternoon they have to do whatever they like.  So it's from like 9a-12p ideally but that's just for 2 kids aged 7 and 9.