The Birds and The Bees Talk

[LancierDombre]

I am not a parent yet, and I'm not sure that this technically falls under "Peaceful Parenting" but it certainly has to do with parenting and I've been giving this a lot of thought lately for some reason.  What is the best way to teach a kid about sex or to explain where babies come from?

 

I think there are some general principles and objectives that we can agree to from the start:

1. You shouldn't lie about it no matter what their age  (e.g. no talk of storks)
2. However, you shouldn't get into details that aren't age appropriate either (e.g. showing college level anatomy books to 5-year-olds)
3. You should aim to impress upon the kid that this is serious business and not to be taken lightly.  Sex can ruin lives and emotionally destroy yourself or others when abused.
4. At the same time they shouldn't be left with that puritanical guilt thing (like I was to some extent).
5. By the time the kid is in their late teens they should understand the basics of sexual market value theory.
6. Both male and female teens should be taught about what quality men and quality women ACTUALLY want in a partner.
7. They should be made aware of the different types of sexual predation that can be practiced by both men an women.
8. Most importantly, your child should feel comfortable coming to you with any questions or issues that come up.

Does anybody have any disagreements, amendments, or critiques of this so far?

 

I'm still working on these ideas so I'd appreciate your feedback.

[kathryn]

One of the biggest tips I've heard is that it should be an open dialogue. "The sex talk" isn't just one talk. It's an evolving conversation that develops as the child grows.

 

I would alter number 3 and 4 slightly. The life ruining aspects you describe are frightening even to me as an adult. Impressing upon a child the seriousness of sex comes with explaining the purpose of sex: to make life. Knowing that whoever you have sex with, you have the potential to make a baby with that person. I think this should be an empowering knowledge, awe-inspiring even to think of human's power for creation in that way. 

 

But, just like Spiderman, with great power comes great responsibility. That comes from a place of inner strength rather than fear, teaching children to respect and honor the power that they have. Does that make sense?

[neeeel]

 

However, you shouldn't get into details that aren't age appropriate either (e.g. showing college level anatomy books to 5-year-olds)

 

 

 

I dont see a problem with showing college level anatomy books to 5 year olds, so maybe I am missing something? I imagine they would be intrigued and interested, by the diagrams, at least

[LancierDombre]

I dont see a problem with showing college level anatomy books to 5 year olds, so maybe I am missing something? I imagine they would be intrigued and interested, by the diagrams, at least

 

Perhaps I'm misjudging the average 5-year-old, but showing the actual mechanics of genitalia and sexual intercourse to a kid that young just strikes me as being potentially traumatizing.  It certainly makes me feel uncomfortable to think about it.  It just feels somewhat r-selected.  I know this is not a solid empirically basis but I do remember the first time I was told about how the mechanics of these things actually work, and even though I was about 10 it still really shocked and disturbed me.  I wasn't completely naive either, I knew it involved some type of touching between adult males and females but I still felt a little disgusted when I learned the whole truth.  I can only imagine that it would be worse for a 5-year-old.

 

I can't help but think that if a 5-year-old were to ask where babies come from, saying something like, "adult women grow them in their bellies with the help of adult men", would probably be enough for that age.  I could be wrong though.

[neeeel]

Perhaps I'm misjudging the average 5-year-old, but showing the actual mechanics of genitalia and sexual intercourse to a kid that young just strikes me as being potentially traumatizing.  It certainly makes me feel uncomfortable to think about it.  It just feels somewhat r-selected.  I know this is not a solid empirically basis but I do remember the first time I was told about how the mechanics of these things actually work, and even though I was about 10 it still really shocked and disturbed me.  I wasn't completely naive either, I knew it involved some type of touching between adult males and females but I still felt a little disgusted when I learned the whole truth.  I can only imagine that it would be worse for a 5-year-old.

 

 

 

 

When you said college textbooks, I assumed you meant anatomy or similar, showing the organs, muscles and structure of the body, do college textbooks really show the "nitty gritty" of sex? Showing anatomy text books of the human body would probably be of great interest to 5 year old children.

 

It just feels somewhat r-selected

 

 

What does this mean? Can the imparting of information be r-selected? 

 

 

showing the actual mechanics of genitalia and sexual intercourse to a kid that young just strikes me as being potentially traumatizing

 

 

I feel like this is your "icky" feeling, rather than anything else. You could say anything is potentially traumatizing.

 

I can't help but think that if a 5-year-old were to ask where babies come from, saying something like, "adult women grow them in their bellies with the help of adult men", would probably be enough for that age.  I could be wrong though.

 

 

 

Yes, it may be, or it may not be, If they were satisfied with that answer, then sure. If they had more queries ( and likely they would, if they had parents who were open, honest, and relaxed with their children), then I dont see why showing them good pictures of anatomy would be bad. 

 

 

I was about 10 it still really shocked and disturbed me

 

 

What was it that shocked and disturbed you?

[LancierDombre]

When you said college textbooks, I assumed you meant anatomy or similar, showing the organs, muscles and structure of the body, do college textbooks really show the "nitty gritty" of sex? Showing anatomy text books of the human body would probably be of great interest to 5 year old children.

 

I believe I've seen at least one where they show a diagram of the actual penetration.  

 

What does this mean? Can the imparting of information be r-selected?

 

Part of r-selection is the early sexualization of children or the early exposure of children to sexual themes and imagery.  According to the r/K theory proposed in "The Evolutionary Psychology Behind Politics" exposing children to sexual imagery too early in life would probably signal an r-selected environment.  That part of the theory might be false - I certainly can't prove it at this point - but I have that in the back of my mind.

 

I feel like this is your "icky" feeling, rather than anything else. You could say anything is potentially traumatizing.

 

I'm not going to deny that the idea of explaining the mechanics of intercourse to a 5-year-old makes me feel kind of icky.  When they start getting around 10 or 11, I'm more comfortable with the idea.  That's probably just because that's when I found out.

 

Yes, it may be, or it may not be, If they were satisfied with that answer, then sure. If they had more queries ( and likely they would, if they had parents who were open, honest, and relaxed with their children), then I dont see why showing them good pictures of anatomy would be bad.

 

I suppose if they ask you have a good point.  The only other alternatives would be to lie or refuse to answer the question at that point.  I just wouldn't volunteer more than that to a 5-year-old unless I was pressed for more details.

 

What was it that shocked and disturbed you?

 

You know, now that you actually have me thinking about it, I realized something.  I watched so many "stranger danger" type videos as a young kid - drilling into my head that if anyone touched me where my bathing suit covered up they were a bad person who needed to be reported on - that the idea that I'd have to do it myself at some point in the future frightened me.  I actually remember thinking through how I was going to have to explain to my future wife that I'd need to touch her there in order for us to have children.  It all seemed very dreadful to me at the time.

[algernon]

How do you think it will change a child's perception and understanding growing up on a farm, seeing animals hump on a semi regularly basis? When a bull is doing the business, there isn't much guessing to be had at what's going on... Maybe that's a good way to teach children in a less graphic age when they're younger? Animal anatomy.

 

I think perhaps it can be traumatizing and so awkward for children because that's how all of the adults around them treat it.

[Jaeger]

It was an early Saturday morning about eleven years ago.  All where asleep in the house but us adults as we made passionate morning love.  Then through the moans of my wife and my grunting we hear:  "Mommy"?  "Daddy"?  "What are you doing"?  To our horror standing next to the bed was our five year old son and and peeking behind him was his three year old sister.  So thus began our very first talk about the birds and the bees.  Trust me we were more traumatized than they were.

 

Kids have an amazing ability to be were you least expect them, so odds are after you decide to have kids something similar to this will happen to you.  I wish i could say there was one size fit all speech you can give, but some kids want the details and others are like "ewww that's gross".  We convey that sex is special and it is how babies are made so should be only done with someone you are committed to be with the rest of your life and when you are an adult.

 

I found when my wife was pregnant that was a good time to talk about the birds and the bees to the younger children.  They want to know how the baby got in mommy's tummy.  We even let them look at pictures of the fetuses at different stages of the pregnancy.

 

I plan to have my teen age kids watch Stefan's  video The Truth About Sex.  I'll let them know the statistics so they can make informed choices.  We are homeschooling them so that can be their sex ed course for the year.

 

As far as teaching your kids about quality men and women.  The best thing we can do is be a man or woman of quality, love your spouse, treat him or her with respect and understanding.  Actions speak louder than words and kids learn by example.

 

I think it is wonderful that you are thinking about this now, I wish I had before that one fateful morning.  Luckily for my son and daughter both me and my wife were raised by men and woman of quality so we were able to pass on the knowledge of what we learned. We are passing the K selected genes forward.

 

For those of us who were raised by K-selected parents (plural) then we have a pretty good example of how to raise children.  Not perfect but a good start.  We still need to learn more and we should always be learning.

 

For those who were raised by an r-selected parent (single) then you have a pretty good example on how not to raise your children.   Also how not to have sex in a responsible manner.  So you need to learn how to have a lasting relationship that is positive in nature.

 

For those who were raised by a mix couple were one parent is r and the other is K, I think you probably have it the hardest.  These couples stay together because the K is loyal and will stay with their spouse no matter what including tolerating abuse to themselves and the children.  The r stays because they get what they want which is either sex or resources.  If you take after your r selected parent you learned that you can get what you want from manipulating.  If you take after your K parent you learn that you should always give unconditionally.

 

Well I think I'm beginning to go off topic so I'll end my rant.

 

[neeeel]

How do you think it will change a child's perception and understanding growing up on a farm, seeing animals hump on a semi regularly basis? When a bull is doing the business, there isn't much guessing to be had at what's going on... Maybe that's a good way to teach children in a less graphic age when they're younger? Animal anatomy.

 

I think perhaps it can be traumatizing and so awkward for children because that's how all of the adults around them treat it.

 

 

this is exactly what I was thinking too, about farms etc. Everything is out there for small children to see and understand, and, as far as I am aware, it wasnt traumatic for farm children, it was an accepted, understood, fact of life. 

 

I also agree that the traumatizing or awkward aspect is likely to come from how the adults treat it.

 

 

Part of r-selection is the early sexualization of children or the early exposure of children to sexual themes and imagery.  According to the r/K theory proposed in "The Evolutionary Psychology Behind Politics" exposing children to sexual imagery too early in life would probably signal an r-selected environment.  That part of the theory might be false - I certainly can't prove it at this point - but I have that in the back of my mind.

 

 

I dont understand. If they are already in an r-selected environment ( Im not sure what that means? that the parents, and people they came into contact with, were r-selected?) then they are already r-selected, if the theory is true. Are you saying that, in a k-selected environment, showing anatomical diagrams, for example ( I am not talking about showing porn or anything, but diagrams of the body, how it works, what it contains, the differences between male and female bodies, where the womb is, etc), would  turn the environment r? Or that the children would become more r ( whatever that means?) . 

 

You know, now that you actually have me thinking about it, I realized something.  I watched so many "stranger danger" type videos as a young kid - drilling into my head that if anyone touched me where my bathing suit covered up they were a bad person who needed to be reported on - that the idea that I'd have to do it myself at some point in the future frightened me.  I actually remember thinking through how I was going to have to explain to my future wife that I'd need to touch her there in order for us to have children.  It all seemed very dreadful to me at the time.

 

 

That makes sense. And I can understand that it would be very confusing and troubling for you. 

[Stan Hunter]

I don't think you have to be defensive about the guilt thing in your conversations with kids. 

Keep it free and natural in your exchanges. Provide answers as they ask them, rather than say "This screwed me up, don't let it do that to you!".

A different attitude and open, honest conversations can go a long way.