Jot Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 I am having trouble understanding this concept of manipulative language...I have never actually seen this phrase anywhere else but on this forum. To me it makes sense to refer to language as only inaccurate or accurate...I don't see how it can be anything but this... For example, if I say "That guy accused me of being closed minded...and I was in fact being close minded in the situation that person was referring to...this for me it is an example of inaccurate use of language since the word "accuse" implies that he had no basis for his assertion. Now...if I am not wrong some people on here would call this "manipulative language", but then what is the difference between "manipulative" and "inaccurate"?
dsayers Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 To manipulate others is to behave dishonestly for the express purpose of altering the thoughts or behaviors of others. Manipulative language is language designed for this purpose. 1
Jot Posted February 2, 2016 Author Posted February 2, 2016 To manipulate others is to behave dishonestly for the express purpose of altering the thoughts or behaviors of others. Manipulative language is language designed for this purpose. Interesting. What you just said provokes another question... How do we know we are not projecting when we say someone is using manipulative language? As far as I can see it we have no way to tell whether someone knows that what he is saying is false/inaccurate and still chooses to use these claims/words or that person is genuinely believing that what he says is true.
shirgall Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 How do we know we are not projecting when we say someone is using manipulative language? As they say, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits..."
Jot Posted February 3, 2016 Author Posted February 3, 2016 As they say, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits..." Knowing them by their fruits is something that takes time...I am talking about someone that I have no previous knowledge of...
dsayers Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 Knowing them by their fruits is something that takes time...I am talking about someone that I have no previous knowledge of... If somebody you've just met can be suspected of using manipulative language, why would you want any further contact with them?
shirgall Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 Since I was trolling by quoting the Bible, I was hoping someone would get the joke. If somebody you've just met can be suspected of using manipulative language, why would you want any further contact with them? Indeed, with some good self-knowledge, you learn to trust your gut after a while.
Jot Posted February 3, 2016 Author Posted February 3, 2016 If somebody you've just met can be suspected of using manipulative language, why would you want any further contact with them? Because I want to know whether he is manipulative or unknowledgeable, there is a big difference between these two. I am actually more interested in this when it comes to online conversations since in real life it is much easier to read a person's intention.
Bipedal Primate Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 I am having trouble understanding this concept of manipulative language...I have never actually seen this phrase anywhere else but on this forum. To me it makes sense to refer to language as only inaccurate or accurate...I don't see how it can be anything but this... For example, if I say "That guy accused me of being closed minded...and I was in fact being close minded in the situation that person was referring to...this for me it is an example of inaccurate use of language since the word "accuse" implies that he had no basis for his assertion. Now...if I am not wrong some people on here would call this "manipulative language", but then what is the difference between "manipulative" and "inaccurate"? I think this passage does a great job of describing what online manipulation and trolls look like! Article by: Joel Patterson November 27, 2015 Curiosity is not just putting a question mark a the end of a sentence any more than love is simply uttering the statement, "I love you." Curiosity is a state of mind. It's something you feel. And it's something you can measure by a person's behavior as well, just like love. However, just like love, curiosity can be feigned for the sole purpose of manipulating you. For example, love bombing is a form psychological manipulation in order to create a feeling of unity within the group members of a cult against a society perceived as hostile. Trolls often do something that I'd like to call, "curiosity bombing" in order to create feelings of frustration within the truth teller. From my experience the curiosity is bait to get you to enter into a win-lose interaction, wherein the purpose is not to explore your ideas, but to dismiss and nit pick them into oblivion as well as to condemn you if they are the type to do that. In these interactions they are the prosecutor. You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. In their minds your're already wrong. They hold a foregone conclusion. So, no matter how well you answer a question, they simply move on to another question and another and another until you become frustrated. Like the cliche example of passive aggression wherein somebody provokes you only to then mock you. "Woah, what's going on with you? Somebody's cranky today." The goal to to frustrate you, make you feel impotent, and to deceive your heart so that you turn away from truth. What I've learned from nearly 5 years of having conversations about philosophy with people is that usually I know at the very beginning how the conversation is going to go in my gut. Now, when I have a bad feeling, I take that wisdom seriously, answer a question or two and if I get the sense things are wrong I'll say, "here's some places you can look for your answers that are far better resources than me. Take control of your learning." I mean, If you want to fish, I can show you where to fish, but I'm not going to fish for anyone. Life is short and my time is precious. Genuinely curious people will have no problem doing further research on their own accord. You couldn't stop them from fishing.... knowledge fish from the lake of philosophy....anytime? You know what I mean. [ Find more of Joel's work @ http://selfknowledgedaily.weebly.com/topics ]
Jot Posted February 4, 2016 Author Posted February 4, 2016 I think this passage does a great job of describing what online manipulation and trolls look like! Article by: Joel Patterson November 27, 2015 Curiosity is not just putting a question mark a the end of a sentence any more than love is simply uttering the statement, "I love you." Curiosity is a state of mind. It's something you feel. And it's something you can measure by a person's behavior as well, just like love. However, just like love, curiosity can be feigned for the sole purpose of manipulating you. For example, love bombing is a form psychological manipulation in order to create a feeling of unity within the group members of a cult against a society perceived as hostile. Trolls often do something that I'd like to call, "curiosity bombing" in order to create feelings of frustration within the truth teller. From my experience the curiosity is bait to get you to enter into a win-lose interaction, wherein the purpose is not to explore your ideas, but to dismiss and nit pick them into oblivion as well as to condemn you if they are the type to do that. In these interactions they are the prosecutor. You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. In their minds your're already wrong. They hold a foregone conclusion. So, no matter how well you answer a question, they simply move on to another question and another and another until you become frustrated. Like the cliche example of passive aggression wherein somebody provokes you only to then mock you. "Woah, what's going on with you? Somebody's cranky today." The goal to to frustrate you, make you feel impotent, and to deceive your heart so that you turn away from truth. What I've learned from nearly 5 years of having conversations about philosophy with people is that usually I know at the very beginning how the conversation is going to go in my gut. Now, when I have a bad feeling, I take that wisdom seriously, answer a question or two and if I get the sense things are wrong I'll say, "here's some places you can look for your answers that are far better resources than me. Take control of your learning." I mean, If you want to fish, I can show you where to fish, but I'm not going to fish for anyone. Life is short and my time is precious. Genuinely curious people will have no problem doing further research on their own accord. You couldn't stop them from fishing.... knowledge fish from the lake of philosophy....anytime? You know what I mean. [ Find more of Joel's work @ http://selfknowledgedaily.weebly.com/topics ] That is a great article...thank you very much I'll need to check his other articles too as a result. Even though I agree with every point that the article makes...I am still having the difficulty of projection...if I am not missing something is virtually impossible to tell whether someone is a troll or he is a genuinely curious person...there is nothing that stops a troll from using the exact same language a genuine person is using...it might be possible face to face because of the sub-communications, but over text you are bound to project onto him...you can never know...am I right?
Bipedal Primate Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 That is a great article...thank you very much I'll need to check his other articles too as a result. Even though I agree with every point that the article makes...I am still having the difficulty of projection...if I am not missing something is virtually impossible to tell whether someone is a troll or he is a genuinely curious person...there is nothing that stops a troll from using the exact same language a genuine person is using...it might be possible face to face because of the sub-communications, but over text you are bound to project onto him...you can never know...am I right? I think all online toxic people eventually out themselves, you just have to pay attention to their manipulative posting patterns, specifically patterns of invalidation. I made a video about outing toxic people on facebook, but I think the patterns I talk about can easily translate to other online platforms.
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