The Truth about Mormons

[Torero]

I wrote this post to clear up misconceptions about Mormons.

 

On what basis do you discriminate between "valid points" and "misconceptions", knowing that you can only speak for yourself or the texts Mormons use?

[Bushrat]

On what basis do you discriminate between "valid points" and "misconceptions", knowing that you can only speak for yourself or the texts Mormons use?

 

I am trying to answer all questions that are asked that are on topic to the best of my knowledge.

[Donnadogsoth]

I am trying to answer all questions that are asked that are on topic to the best of my knowledge.

 

Hi Bushrat, my question is, do Mormons believe that humans are made in the mental image of God?  Meaning, in case it's unclear, as distinct from the animals, which are not made in the mental image of God.  Thanks.

[Mike Larson]

Because of the history of violent persecution from the United States congress the majority of LDS are small government types. Unfortunately despite the horrible past LDS people are forbidden from being anarchists by the 12th article of faith. 

 

The 12th article of faith does not forbid LDS people from being anarchists. This is prudential direction given to LDS members to help them avoid getting killed by the state. The core doctrines of the LDS church are very much in support of the principles of anarchy.

[Bushrat]

Hi Bushrat, my question is, do Mormons believe that humans are made in the mental image of God?  Meaning, in case it's unclear, as distinct from the animals, which are not made in the mental image of God.  Thanks.

 

I believe that we are children of God. We are created in his image both physically and mentally as you say.

[dsayers]

I believe that we are children of God. We are created in his image both physically and mentally as you say.

How do you know? If you were to believe a boiling pot of water was room temperature, would it be safe to touch?

 

My bias is that use of the word believe amid statements of fact is hugely irresponsible.

[amreed8]

A little off topic, but I'd be curious to hear about the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seventh Day Adventists.

[csekavec]

The 12th article of faith does not forbid LDS people from being anarchists. This is prudential direction given to LDS members to help them avoid getting killed by the state. The core doctrines of the LDS church are very much in support of the principles of anarchy.

 

I suppose you might be right. Only articles #1 and #3 through #6 (and #7?)  is one required to affirm to obtain a temple recommend.  But it really does beg the question: are the other similarly worded articles only prudential direction and not essential to the LDS faith? For example the 8th:  is belief in the BoM as the word of God prudential or essential? Obviously not important enough to be included in the temple interview.

 

But the thing I really want to know is: what LDS doctrine support anarchy??

[Mike Larson]

But the thing I really want to know is: what LDS doctrine support anarchy??

 

The "doctrine" that...

 

1. Individual agency is fundamental to the entire belief system.

2. That theft is immoral. (this doctrine, alone, is sufficient)

3. That patriarchy is the eternal order of existence (which I think is antithetical to statism).

 

Also, Section 121 in the Doctrine and Covenants clearly defines the way in which legitimate power or authority is to be exercised... and that is by love, persuasion, gentleness, pure knowledge etc. (specifically stating that authority is lost the moment a person attempts to lead by means of compulsion). Again, this is in direct opposition to the nature of the state, which is specifically defined by its use of force or compulsion.

[Jaeger]

Hi Bushrat.  Thanks for the post.  I too am a Mormon and have also noticed that many assume that our beliefs fall in line with Mainstream Christianity concerning God and Hell.  In fact many of our beliefs would be down right heretical to most Christians.

 

Example we believe God has a resurrected body of flesh and bones.  Jesus Christ is God's biological Son not just another aspect of him.  He also has a resurrected body of flesh and bones. That the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit who stands as a second witness to Jesus Christ.  As a spirit he can talk directly to our spirit (heart) and give us inspiration.

 

There are two places in the Mormon afterlife that can be considered Hell like.

 

1.  Outer Darkness:  This will be the final fate for Satan and his angels as well as what we call "Sons of Perdition".  These are people who had a perfect knowledge of God and chose to follow Satan anyways.  Cain from the Bible would be an example.  He had a perfect knowledge of God even speaking to him face to face but still chose to kill his brother and "Loved Satan more than God".

 

2.  Spirit Prison:  This is a place where the spirits of the wicked go to after they die to await the Resurrection.  We believe that the severity of ones punishment will be based on how they lived.  In other words we don't believe if a man is a thief that his punishment would be the same as a murderer.  We do not believe that it is a permanent place and if one did not have a chance to learn about the gospel in this life that they will have an opportunity to do so there.  This is why us Mormons are big into genealogy as we believe if we do the temple work for our dead ancestors and that they accept the gospel that they can move from this spirit prison to paradise and be in full fellowship with the righteous there.

 

As far as spanking the Church has been very outspoken against abuse of every kind including spanking.  Unfortunately we have too many members of our church who still spank despite what the brethren say.

 

Below is a link to a talk given by one of our prophets, Gordon B. Hinckley, on the subject.  I also include an excerpt from the talk that I found most pleasing.  My favorite was about the fishing rod.

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1994/10/save-the-children?lang=eng

 

 

"In terms of physical abuse, I have never accepted the principle of “spare the rod and spoil the child.” I will be forever grateful for a father who never laid a hand in anger upon his children. Somehow he had the wonderful talent to let them know what was expected of them and to give them encouragement in achieving it.

I am persuaded that violent fathers produce violent sons. I am satisfied that such punishment in most instances does more damage than good. Children don’t need beating. They need love and encouragement. They need fathers to whom they can look with respect rather than fear. Above all, they need example.

I recently read a biography of George H. Brimhall, who at one time served as president of Brigham Young University. Concerning him, someone said that he reared “his boys with a rod, but it [was] a fishing rod” (Raymond Brimhall Holbrook and Esther Hamilton Holbrook, TheTall Pine Tree: The Life and Work of George H. Brimhall, n.p., 1988, p. 62). That says it all."

[Jaeger]

But the thing I really want to know is: what LDS doctrine support anarchy??

I found this very old article in the Millennial Star dated 1886.  It talks about the importance of self government and how that is really the only true government there is.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=RNQ_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA552&lpg=PA552&dq=Prophet+Joseph+Smith:+%E2%80%9CI+teach+them+correct+principles+and+they+govern+themselves.%E2%80%9D&source=bl&ots=XS8KOOttD3&sig=2eu253DCkuvV_7P668ccVR0etPQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjg3K_K75HLAhUI7SYKHRWwCg04ChDoAQhFMAg#v=onepage&q=Prophet%20Joseph%20Smith%3A%20%E2%80%9CI%20teach%20them%20correct%20principles%20and%20they%20govern%20themselves.%E2%80%9D&f=false

 

I also want to comment on Mormon view on the Bible, Book of Mormon and other religious text we use and how it pertains to authority from God.  We do not believe that authority can come from any book but only from God himself.  We call this authority the Priesthood.  There being two priesthoods,  the Melchizedek and Aaronic.  We do not have a paid clergy so there isn't a special Priest class in our religion.  Every man from age 12 up is given the priesthood.  So every man is his own priest so to speak.  As priesthood holders we are expected to earn our own living.  Preaching for money is considered a very big sin in Mormonism.

 

So in Mormonism the ideal society would be as follows:

 

1.  Every man would be his own Priest (No priest class).

2.  Every man would be his own sovereign  (No earthly government).

 

Teachings of Joseph Smith

Leaders teach correct principles and help those they lead learn to govern themselves.

John Taylor, the third President of the Church, reported:“Some years ago, in Nauvoo, a gentleman in my hearing, a member of the Legislature, asked Joseph Smith how it was that he was enabled to govern so many people, and to preserve such perfect order; remarking at the same time that it was impossible for them to do it anywhere else. Mr. Smith remarked that it was very easy to do that. ‘How?’ responded the gentleman; ‘to us it is very difficult.’ Mr. Smith replied, ‘I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.’”³

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, (2011), 281–91

[Bushrat]

Hey guys, thanks for the great posts on this thread.

 

I found this video that sums up almost exactly my views on government.  It was talk given by Ezra Taft Benson in 1968 while he was an Apostle in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Have a look:

 

 

Also, for those who have not read this about Mormons, once Joseph Smith was asked what we believe, here is what is response was, we call them the 13 Articles of Faith:

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul-We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.