Copper_Heart Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Work, in progress... Just beforehand, I want to say that I am currently working with a counselor and my ACE Score is 6. How to set boundaries?I am timid and unassertive. I find it difficult to argue or even express my point and end up going with the flow. I am typical nice guy, manipulative. Then I reach my boiling point and I just start screaming at people in rage, because I reached a critical low of my narcissistic supply. Transformation to Mr.Hyde happened in this circumstances: mother threw a class of water in my face when a "friend" did not stop touching me - I actually told him to stop, I am not gay and I am averse to any kind of male touch, except rare pat on the back. when I dim my peers less professional then me and they do not follow my advice. I switch from manipulative to control freak. Probably mimicking my mother. Memory #1: When I was at age of 6 my mother was mocking and bullying me and my grandfather was holding both my hands so I do not punch her and she threw a glass of water into my face and they were laughing. When helpless meets boiling rage... Is there any book, apart from RTR, that could aid me in learning how to set my boundaries? I do not want become rage addict. Can you also help me with argument against "Why do you only remember bad things, what about all good things I did for you?". It is a pure sophistry because the same was not never applied to me(UPB rules). My Woe - Need to get it out of my chest I had to chose a PC for my cousin to buy. I wanted her to go to a shop and try different models out by her self, or with me if she wanted to. She said that she had no time because she was studying to hard. Enough to buy sandals with a friend, not enough to visit a IT shop just around the corner. Yesterday I called my aunt to talk about it. She said that my cousin told her that she wants to buy a PC two days ago. After searching for a week or two some models I have found had been already sold out. I repeated to my aunt what I had told to my cousin: she needs to go and take look for herself; especially if she[aunt] wants to invest well and not buy some useless toy. Again I am being told that my cousin is studying too hard, so I told her that I can do it by myself today. To that my aunt notified me that my cousin is going to buy a dress and then she goes out with her friends. I told her that it I will do it next day and call ended. But then it hit me: no time at all for a product that she will spend next few years using, because she is "studying too hard", but just enough time to do shopping and partying. I really hate when people ask me for help but I am the one who is most emotionally involved into it. I called again and said, screamed what I think about that among other things. Few things that I noticed about myself: envy could played a part in it, because my cousin is going out, while I am a loner(or just an ancap) I got to emotionally involved probably because of my nice guys syndrome and because I wanted to be important to my family. I understand that I could have just asked for money and bought any laptop I see fit without investing so much time, nerves and making a drama. More background: I was kicked out by my parents roughly a year and half ago. It was celebrated as en expulsion of Satan from Heaven, except I was a scapegoat and now my father wants me to come back, because, guess what he got his "fair share" from my mother now he is sick. At the beginning when I came to this city my cousin and my aunt would visit me on week ends and I would go to their place twice every week. My aunt wanted me to go to a local university and bullied me into doing that. Later my grandmother confessed that my aunt wanted to prove to my mother that she is better and she will deal with this swiftly. This university has one of the worst IT faculties in country and maybe in EU: class are being read from a PowerPoint -- copy paste from Wikipedia -- and there are no books. Also it has an insane level of bureaucracy: I was not assigned till the middle of the quadrimestre and then I was downgraded from 3rd course down to the first grade. Previously I studied to that I have studied in university that had at least some world recognition. Simultaneously with me starting this university course my family stopped visiting me, because they were "studying too much". When I visited them I was treated badly: always discussing male models on TV, interrupting me -- not a "sorry", but just start talking about some other issue when I am in the middle of a sentence. Generally I feet like if it does not matter if I am there or not. At some point I was talking about about history in Muslim invasion and discovery of Americas, my aunt just told me to shut up. I did quite well, obviously, before they down graded me and even made friends with some professors. I became depressed after that and I could not keep studying anymore. It was on Christmas Eve when I told that to my aunt, extremely hard emotionally for me to do that, her answer was: that then you should have your internet cut off... She later justified it like that: "Well, I have to think about money." I found some stupid excuse and left. Not so long ago my aunt went to voyage and asked me to keep an eye on my cousin. I was talking to her almost every day as promised and was offering to come and help if needed, she said no. After returning from her voyage my aunt was not calling me because she was angry that I left university and have not found job right away(I live in Spain). So I asked my cousin if it was ok for me to call, she said that "better not, cause [aunt] is angry". After few week when I told my grandfather that I feel isolated in this city. My cousin writes to me say that this is my own fault cause I neither called them, nor visited my cousin when my aunt was away. When I resent to her "better not, cause [aunt] is angry", she said some thing along the lines "haha i indeed have said that"... I feel like they are trying to feed me bullshit all the time, fog me. Usually I am very afraid of confrontation and feel extremely scarred and depressed after but now I am very much tired of this crap.
Matthew Ed Moran Posted February 13, 2016 Posted February 13, 2016 Your story about your mother mocking you, bullying you, throwing water in your face at your age of six: that is deeply sadistic. That is a smile in the face of bone grinding pain. That is an abomination of a mother, and an abomination of a family that you were born into. That is hell, and it was hell because they wanted it to be hell. They liked it that way. I want you to understand how ruthlessly sadistic these people are, because once you understand that, I think you will agree that this rage you have was absolutely necessary to defend yourself from a situation in which you were held captive by sadistic, brain-rotten, lunatics. I know it is so easy to blame yourself for being put in this situation, because that is exactly what your parents made you do, but I really had a distaste seeing you label yourself a narcissist and yourself as generally manipulative, without putting the the blame on everyone else around you for essentially asking you to be this way. This is what these people in your life want from you. They would rather have you bottle it up and then explode, because that is normal to them. That is sane to them. That makes them feel better about their own deprivations which they've been too inept, too cowardly, too morally frail to even stare in the face. If you are assertive, they will either bow or they will try and sabotage you - it's win-lose. What do you think they will do? So as long as you're around them, you're going to be in-taking the exhaustive fumes of moral deprivation, of a lack of self control, of sadism and narcissism and the depths of denial - this is all deeply terrifying. It is deeply terrifying to be around people like that. So if your expectation is to not feel rage or anger around this, then you are explicitly denying the only reason why you are not exactly like them, in my completely amateur opinion. I really appreciate you reaching out and bringing up such an important topic in your life. I am so sorry about the abuse you have shared. If your counselor is good at what she does, make the most of her! If something is wrong with the relationship in therapy, bring it up! This stuff is too important to be left only to a forum. 2
Copper_Heart Posted February 13, 2016 Author Posted February 13, 2016 Your story ... Thanks for reading the original. I hope it is less messy now. The abuse was hard. I sometimes forget how crazy it all is... I think you will agree that this rage you have was absolutely necessary to defend yourself Yes, I agree with that. It was very much useless though, I was punished for just becoming slightly angry. I get negative remarks even if I breath wrong way. I agree it is necessary, but I do not know how to deal with my rage, because it was prohibited for such a long time. How to incorporate it so to speak. seeing you label yourself a narcissist and yourself as generally manipulative To people who see latest edit, I was a bit harsher on my self in previous one. I see manipulation as another useful tool in this situation. It is a logical step to become manipulative if assertion is reprimanded. I tried to use narcissistic supply as synonym to patting on the back, saying just in case. But yes I agree with you, I am always looking for fault in my self even if treated extremely unfairly. Absolute responsibility for everything. will try and sabotage you - it's win-lose. What do you think they will do? Yeah, it is very true. I wanted to get a job instead off going to university and my father said he will kick me out if I do that. Same thing happened with my aunt... The saddest thing is that after all of that I feel a grim joy for being "fucked up", because I can fault them for it. [rage or anger] the only reason why you are not exactly like them, in my completely amateur opinion. I remember I first heard this on Stefan's podcast. Thank for reminding me. I feel more in peace with my self now. Need to write it up and remember to never forget. I really appreciate you reaching out and bringing up such an important topic in your life. I am so sorry about the abuse you have shared. Thank you for the kind word! It crazy and could out there. In fact I want to share this thread with my counselor, I hope it will be useful.
Sima Posted February 18, 2016 Posted February 18, 2016 your family hurted you a lot, mine me as well. The question which i have about evil people is: why do they feel pleasure when they do bad stuff to us? I can step in those shoes, when i used to fantasize revenging against some evil doer, then i thought i could get some pleasure for punishing them. But in this case I wanted to punish someone who did bad stuff to me. The problem I have understanding, why people do bad stuff to me with pleasure, when i didnt harm them. I did nothing bad to them. I did nothing bad to my parents , they have nothing to punish me for. The same with bullies at work. They hardly know me, but they just like to do bad things. I think they are punishing me in their mind because of projections maybe? Its also weird that victims are ashamed they were abused or bullied. Usually there was nothing they did wrong. Also Stef mentioned that majority just likes to bully those who look or are weak. They just like that. And the third thing: If you are angry , that means that self defence mechanism is on: when you are angry you can: run, freeze or fight. Stef offers to run away from abusive parents, because we dont have years of experience playing dirty in order to crush someone's soul. We just dont have the skills. Theoretically, its best to run away from your family, because your country is big, but you cant run away from state, you have to fight against, because you live in it.
neeeel Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 The problem I have understanding, why people do bad stuff to me with pleasure, when i didnt harm them. I did nothing bad to them. I did nothing bad to my parents , they have nothing to punish me for. you didnt do anything bad to them, but, they BELIEVED that what you were doing was bad to them. This is where the narcissism comes in, I guess. To them, you werent acting out of desires and needs of your own, you were acting to directly hurt them or disobey them. 1
Sima Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 i guess we are talking how people can be delusional towards other people. Most stuff they think about others are delusions. That is scary in some ways.
Copper_Heart Posted February 22, 2016 Author Posted February 22, 2016 The problem I have understanding, why people do bad stuff to me with pleasure, when i didnt harm them. I did nothing bad to them. I did nothing bad to my parents , they have nothing to punish me for. The same with bullies at work. They hardly know me, but they just like to do bad things. I think they are punishing me in their mind because of projections maybe? I agree with your projection analogy. There for example cases of mothers who tell that there 2 month old babies are selfish or man with PTSD who fall into despair/rage when they hear children's laughter. Usually people have something happened to them that makes some part of their brain go haywire. It's not like every think is fine and dandy and then they think 'time to give em taste of hell!' Its also weird that victims are ashamed they were abused or bullied. Usually there was nothing they did wrong. Also Stef mentioned that majority just likes to bully those who look or are weak. They just like that. Because being abused tells you that it is ok for society to abuse you and shutting down is a survival mechanism. And the third thing: If you are angry , that means that self defence mechanism is on: when you are angry you can: run, freeze or fight. Stef offers to run away from abusive parents, because we dont have years of experience playing dirty in order to crush someone's soul. We just dont have the skills. Theoretically, its best to run away from your family, because your country is big, but you cant run away from state, you have to fight against, because you live in it. Sadly it is not always an option, even more sad is that I squandered few opportunities. P.S. My condolences for your own problems you have with your family. It's always a sucker punch.
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