Charity shower thought

[flazak]

Hello all, my first post

 

I recently signed up to justgiving.com where I can browse local/national/global requests for help and assistance and donate to them.

 

I have been donating and I like being able to almost personally help some people on there who genuinely through no fault of their own have fallen upon hard times and need help.

 

I then began to wonder how it would apply to the welfare state.

 

Can you image a site where a family on welfare needs to post something saying: "I need some money to buy crack, please" or "Booze running low, gotta get more fund" - Maybe: "I need your donations soon because I have had another child with my third husband and need a larger house to move into, thanks"

 

Just a showerthought I suppose.

 

Of course we don't need a site for any of that because my taxes automatically go to fund these people without my consent

 

Hello everyone

 

[AccuTron]

The site requires too much signup for me to examine.  Heck with that.  What do you find there?  The question arises about how legit any requests are, who checks them, and who checks the checkers?  What about taking the money you'd send to the site, and finding something local you can really see?

[dsayers]

Can you image a site where a family on welfare needs to post something saying: "I need some money to buy crack, please"

I wonder if crack dealers would donate a bit to keep people hooked.

[flazak]

The site requires too much signup for me to examine.  Heck with that.  What do you find there?  The question arises about how legit any requests are, who checks them, and who checks the checkers?  What about taking the money you'd send to the site, and finding something local you can really see?

 

Well I guess you just have to trust the requests on there and make sure your bullshit detector is finely calibrated

 

I suppose I could take my money to somewhere local I can really see but I can also send my money electronically to someone I can see on my computer screen, either way I am still helping someone but using different methods. Ultimately you would have to sign up and decide for yourself if something is legit or not rather than just dismiss it without looking?

[AncapFTW]

I wonder if crack dealers would donate a bit to keep people hooked.

Only to their customers, and if they'd do that, the people would have come to them in the first place.  There could be offers to help them get clean, though.

[wdiaz03]

Well I guess you just have to trust the requests on there and make sure your bullshit detector is finely calibrated

 

I suppose I could take my money to somewhere local I can really see but I can also send my money electronically to someone I can see on my computer screen, either way I am still helping someone but using different methods. Ultimately you would have to sign up and decide for yourself if something is legit or not rather than just dismiss it without looking?

 

Can you explain how one could determine a false claim from a real one? How exactly does this bullshit detector work?

 

You assume that giving money will "help" someone. Do you consider a short term solution at the expense of a long term solution "help"?

 

Is this "help" you think you are providing more about meeting a need you have rather than really ensuring your charity is put to good use?

 

I sometimes encounter beggars on the streets. Is giving them money going to help them? I always wonder if they are going to take that money and spend it on beer or drugs, is that really helping? Even if they spend it on food...that's a short term fix. how do they get off the streets and integrate into society? should they buy a rake and trade labor for money instead of begging?

 

I had a friend that would ask me for money once in a while, a few hundred here a few thousands there. for mortgage, car payment, some issue with the house...he would pay it back in a few months then ask again, in the meantime he would take vacations with the family and buy fancy stuff for the house...Wife even got a boob job. I would find out all this by a third party, he was not being honest with me at all when it came to what he needed the money for or what he did with it. Was I helping him? 

 

His issues seemed true to me, but somehow you think I could have detected the bullshit? this was face to face and over the phone convos...tone of voice maybe? length of silence? And you claim to be able to detect lies on a written form? used of capital letters? to many long words? 

 

I don't pretend that I can beat a bullshitter at his bullshit when this is what they do for a living. Is like having the arrogance that one could feel a leech or a mosquito attach to one's skin to suck one's blood, these things have evolved to be stealthy and trick their host. Even if you do feel them the damage has already been done. The same way scam artists are excellent at what they do.  

 

I'm on the camp that people's money problems are rarely solved with money. Problems are more complex and I don't pretend that throwing money at them is going to solve them.

 

Your thoughts?

[Spenc]

One idea from the time I got interested in reading US history of the Founding Fathers and that era was that Benjamin Franklin had proposed no federal government employees could receive a salary for their 'service' in government.  The general tone of the historical mention of this is that the other men greatly respected Franklin and so gave him the soap box to make his case and they humored him in a bit of debate but they all thought it was a ridiculous idea.

 

I've thought about it in terms of the Iraq war veterans or IRS workers, etc.  They are incentivized with being plucked out of poverty, traveling the world, making friends (bonding like brothers), free college and 5 years of salaried employ after graduation.  And the cause is not even just or helpful to the standard american, in fact their work is quite detrimental.  Imagine if instead of collecting a wage and pension and health care that they had to go in to some charity and interview with someone responsible for private funds who wants to ensure that they 'deserve' to be compensated for their so-called service!

 

Or in the case of an IRS worker, who the hell would subscribe to a monthly Paypal contribution to the IRS Workers SUpport Fund, or some such charity?

[tele]

Can you explain how one could determine a false claim from a real one? How exactly does this bullshit detector work?

 

You assume that giving money will "help" someone. Do you consider a short term solution at the expense of a long term solution "help"?

 

Is this "help" you think you are providing more about meeting a need you have rather than really ensuring your charity is put to good use?

 

I sometimes encounter beggars on the streets. Is giving them money going to help them? I always wonder if they are going to take that money and spend it on beer or drugs, is that really helping? Even if they spend it on food...that's a short term fix. how do they get off the streets and integrate into society? should they buy a rake and trade labor for money instead of begging?

 

I had a friend that would ask me for money once in a while, a few hundred here a few thousands there. for mortgage, car payment, some issue with the house...he would pay it back in a few months then ask again, in the meantime he would take vacations with the family and buy fancy stuff for the house...Wife even got a boob job. I would find out all this by a third party, he was not being honest with me at all when it came to what he needed the money for or what he did with it. Was I helping him? 

 

His issues seemed true to me, but somehow you think I could have detected the bullshit? this was face to face and over the phone convos...tone of voice maybe? length of silence? And you claim to be able to detect lies on a written form? used of capital letters? to many long words? 

 

I don't pretend that I can beat a bullshitter at his bullshit when this is what they do for a living. Is like having the arrogance that one could feel a leech or a mosquito attach to one's skin to suck one's blood, these things have evolved to be stealthy and trick their host. Even if you do feel them the damage has already been done. The same way scam artists are excellent at what they do.  

 

I'm on the camp that people's money problems are rarely solved with money. Problems are more complex and I don't pretend that throwing money at them is going to solve them.

 

Your thoughts?

I think it's quite perceptive that you point out that the "help" may indeed be for the helper to make themselves feel better than anything the helpee may get.

 

Surely the best help anyone could get is to live in a free society free from the "assistance" of the govt and justgiving.com dosn't help with that.

[flazak]

Can you explain how one could determine a false claim from a real one? How exactly does this bullshit detector work?

 

You assume that giving money will "help" someone. Do you consider a short term solution at the expense of a long term solution "help"?

 

Is this "help" you think you are providing more about meeting a need you have rather than really ensuring your charity is put to good use?

 

I sometimes encounter beggars on the streets. Is giving them money going to help them? I always wonder if they are going to take that money and spend it on beer or drugs, is that really helping? Even if they spend it on food...that's a short term fix. how do they get off the streets and integrate into society? should they buy a rake and trade labor for money instead of begging?

 

I had a friend that would ask me for money once in a while, a few hundred here a few thousands there. for mortgage, car payment, some issue with the house...he would pay it back in a few months then ask again, in the meantime he would take vacations with the family and buy fancy stuff for the house...Wife even got a boob job. I would find out all this by a third party, he was not being honest with me at all when it came to what he needed the money for or what he did with it. Was I helping him? 

 

His issues seemed true to me, but somehow you think I could have detected the bullshit? this was face to face and over the phone convos...tone of voice maybe? length of silence? And you claim to be able to detect lies on a written form? used of capital letters? to many long words? 

 

I don't pretend that I can beat a bullshitter at his bullshit when this is what they do for a living. Is like having the arrogance that one could feel a leech or a mosquito attach to one's skin to suck one's blood, these things have evolved to be stealthy and trick their host. Even if you do feel them the damage has already been done. The same way scam artists are excellent at what they do.  

 

I'm on the camp that people's money problems are rarely solved with money. Problems are more complex and I don't pretend that throwing money at them is going to solve them.

 

Your thoughts?

 

First of all I am operating on the fact that there are still lots of good, honest, needy human beings out there.

 

Therefore I think it comes down to how much you can trust someone and how much you can trust in your own instincts. I realise actually meeting someone before helping them to assess their 'claim' will mean I am much better informed than reading about their woes on a computer screen but how far do you want to go. It is possible to meet someone and you do not get to know them well enough to get past their public facade and into their innermost thoughts and feelings, so you don't really meet them, you just meet the polite actor that greets you for a moment. Maybe I should get to know the claimant for years first so I can reach a conclusion that 100% for certain they require my money or efforts...

 

Ain't nobody got time for that !

 

I work 9 hour days and enjoy my free time so I give to charity and I don't want to go through some agonizing screening process first. I trust my instincts and if for some unfortunate reason im wrong then I guess im just wrong.

[tele]

First of all I am operating on the fact that there are still lots of good, honest, needy human beings out there.

 

Therefore I think it comes down to how much you can trust someone and how much you can trust in your own instincts. I realise actually meeting someone before helping them to assess their 'claim' will mean I am much better informed than reading about their woes on a computer screen but how far do you want to go. It is possible to meet someone and you do not get to know them well enough to get past their public facade and into their innermost thoughts and feelings, so you don't really meet them, you just meet the polite actor that greets you for a moment. Maybe I should get to know the claimant for years first so I can reach a conclusion that 100% for certain they require my money or efforts...

 

Ain't nobody got time for that !

 

I work 9 hour days and enjoy my free time so I give to charity and I don't want to go through some agonizing screening process first. I trust my instincts and if for some unfortunate reason im wrong then I guess im just wrong.

 

There is nothing wrong with helping people or wanting to help people.

 

However, is that the best use of your charitable donations.

 

Giving needy people a sticky plaster doesn't stop the reasons why they are needy.

 

Why not attack the source of needy peoples problems and fight the "state".

 

Consider donating to FDR instead.

[flazak]

There is nothing wrong with helping people or wanting to help people.

 

However, is that the best use of your charitable donations.

 

Giving needy people a sticky plaster doesn't stop the reasons why they are needy.

 

Why not attack the source of needy peoples problems and fight the "state".

 

Consider donating to FDR instead.

 

I have donated to FDR as well

 

I have donated monies to people who need it due to illness or circumstances outside of their control (and FDR!) and I am satisfied I donated to the right ones, I guess that all that matters in the end. If you want to concentrate solely on fighting the state then thats your choice and if that works for you then thats great.