Why are trans men never discussed?

[SoCaliGirl]

Why are trans men never discussed?

 

My thoughts:

 

I have met well over 200 trans men & women in the city where I live over the last few years and in my experience the population of trans men and trans women is split quite evenly with maybe a slight majority being trans men.

 

This surprised me.

 

I had only heard about trans women in the media.

 

When I have discussed this with trans men and women, the consensus seems to be that trans men definitely "have it easier" in terms of going through the initial couple of years of 'transition' both in terms of medical HRT as well as significantly less societal disapproval/harassment/ostracizing

 

Trans men have the following HRT advantages:

 

1. HRT Alters their voice to within the average male range with no effort required.

2. HRT Gives them facial and body hair within the average male range with no effort required.

 

Trans men have the following societal advantages during transition:

 

1. During 'transition' they can wear clothing that decades ago was very segregated to men only: pants, baggier shirts, suits etc etc

 

2. During 'transition' they are often assumed to be 'butch' possibly lesbian women.

 

It definitely seems like trans women are demonized far more often in the so called bathroom debate.

 

Billboards proclaiming the dangers of "letting men in dresses" into the bathrooms with your daughters! etc

 

Yet these people don't seem to realize that if their nanny state, impossible to enforce, sex segregated bathroom law were to be passed and followed, they would actually be forcing trans men like this

 

 

 

 

into the "female restrooms" with their daughters.

 

It's interesting and I think says a lot about how our society views gender expression (or perhaps stereotypical gender expression).

 

I am very interested in what some high IQ FDR listeners think about why trans men are ignored and what that says about our society.

 

=)

[Mister Mister]

Transmisandry!

 

That's very interesting Cali.  It does seem like it's easier maybe for a trans man not to stick out.  Going through puberty as a man develops the square jaw, wide shoulders, and deep voice that is hard to reverse.  On the other hand, a woman can develop these things with testosterone therapy and get pretty close.  Though I hear the cosmetic penises are still highly problematic That lower picture though is quite remarkable!

 

  I think it also highlights how, slightly effeminate men are sexy these days, whereas manly women are not so much.  So many trans men might just seem like male-model type girly men, which is hot, but many trans women come off as kind of awkward, tall, wide-shouldered, square-jawed women, which is more difficult I think.

What do you think is a solution to the bathroom laws?  I think it's kind of blown out of proportion.  How many sexual assaults actually happen in bathrooms anyways?  You see dads bring their very young daughters into men's rooms from time to time, and nobody freaks out.  If your kid is that young and vulnerable, don't send them into a bathroom alone!  Just seems like another false issue that the market and communities would deal with, but is being made into a political issue to play identity politics and legally harass traditional conservatives.

[Donnadogsoth]

Trans men are more acceptable than trans women because men are more acceptable than women.  It's a step up status-wise for a woman to become a man, but it's a step down status-wise for a man to become a woman.  So saith Patriarchy Theory.  Can anyone gainsay this?

[wdiaz03]

I fail to see the big deal with public bathrooms. I have never seen someones genitalia in a public bathroom. You see more skin at a public beach. For all practical purposes bathrooms could be unisex. When I walk into a men's bathroom I see men facing the urinals washing their hands etc. A woman could walk right in do her business on the toilet and walk out. no big deal. It will take mature respectful people on both sides to not get disrespectful but in a few hundred years of peaceful parenting it could be accomplished. Long lines at the women's bathrooms will be a thing of the past.

[Mister Mister]

I fail to see the big deal with public bathrooms. I have never seen someones genitalia in a public bathroom. You see more skin at a public beach. For all practical purposes bathrooms could be unisex. When I walk into a men's bathroom I see men facing the urinals washing their hands etc. A woman could walk right in do her business on the toilet and walk out. no big deal. It will take mature respectful people on both sides to not get disrespectful but in a few hundred years of peaceful parenting it could be accomplished. Long lines at the women's bathrooms will be a thing of the past.

yes but where will women gossip about their dates outside the earshot of men?

[AncapFTW]

yes but where will women gossip about their dates outside the earshot of men?

Skype?

 

Actually, there have been female urinals brought to market, they were just so unpopular that they never caught on.

 

I don't really get why nudity is such a big deal, especially when you have stalls to hide it.

[SoCaliGirl]

Transmisandry!

 

That's very interesting Cali.  It does seem like it's easier maybe for a trans man not to stick out.  Going through puberty as a man develops the square jaw, wide shoulders, and deep voice that is hard to reverse.  On the other hand, a woman can develop these things with testosterone therapy and get pretty close.  Though I hear the cosmetic penises are still highly problematic That lower picture though is quite remarkable!

 

  I think it also highlights how, slightly effeminate men are sexy these days, whereas manly women are not so much.  So many trans men might just seem like male-model type girly men, which is hot, but many trans women come off as kind of awkward, tall, wide-shouldered, square-jawed women, which is more difficult I think.

 

What do you think is a solution to the bathroom laws?  I think it's kind of blown out of proportion.  How many sexual assaults actually happen in bathrooms anyways?  You see dads bring their very young daughters into men's rooms from time to time, and nobody freaks out.  If your kid is that young and vulnerable, don't send them into a bathroom alone!  Just seems like another false issue that the market and communities would deal with, but is being made into a political issue to play identity politics and legally harass traditional conservatives.

Agreed.

 

In response to bathrooms, I would simply say that private stalls are private stalls.

 

Non issue imo

 

It's the conservatives that are running around trying to pass laws in order to play bathroom police.

yes but where will women gossip about their dates outside the earshot of men?

 

Texting :P

I fail to see the big deal with public bathrooms. I have never seen someones genitalia in a public bathroom. You see more skin at a public beach. For all practical purposes bathrooms could be unisex. When I walk into a men's bathroom I see men facing the urinals washing their hands etc. A woman could walk right in do her business on the toilet and walk out. no big deal. It will take mature respectful people on both sides to not get disrespectful but in a few hundred years of peaceful parenting it could be accomplished. Long lines at the women's bathrooms will be a thing of the past.

 

Agreed.

[Mister Mister]

It's the conservatives that are running around trying to pass laws in order to play bathroom police.

 

That's not the case in many "progressive" areas, like where I live, where they are trying to pass a mandate eliminating genders from bathrooms altogether.

[Donnadogsoth]

That's not the case in many "progressive" areas, like where I live, where they are trying to pass a mandate eliminating genders from bathrooms altogether.

 

I'd love to see that happen just to spite the feminazis.

[fractional slacker]

Are gender abolitionists an offshoot of egalitarianism?

[csekavec]

There is a trans man that works the window at my local McDonalds. He's great. 

[regevdl]

Because we are suppose to believe that woman are superior..not equal...superior and that we are so superior that men want to be women and anyone that goes the other way must be delusional and sick and devient.  

 

A man turning to a woman is honorable and worthy of nobel prizes and publicity and grandeure  and great and feeds nicely into the fembot movement and the women turning to men are rapey freakshows that we need to reject (not my sentiment but the narrative we are fed)

 

I used to blindly support Trans/Les/Gay etc and I am not against it, i just take the position that I want to make sure I am not glorifying and celebrating symptoms of abuse.  I have close friends who knew long before they knew what sex was that they were 'different' and gay.  I have others who had highly dysfunctional childhoods and their 'homosexuality' is an obvious symptom of their abuse and they even admit that  but neither of us are sure if it's then cureable or reversable in those cases and society is NOT ready to even discuss that, of course.  lol

[SoCaliGirl]

That's not the case in many "progressive" areas, like where I live, where they are trying to pass a mandate eliminating genders from bathrooms altogether.

 

I can't say I am super upset by this; private stalls are private stalls. I am not sure why anyone pretends like they would be able to 'check' or 'enforce' any sort of gender segregation in bathrooms anyway...

 

There is a trans man that works the window at my local McDonalds. He's great. 

 

What makes you so sure he is a trans man?

 

Because we are suppose to believe that woman are superior..not equal...superior and that we are so superior that men want to be women and anyone that goes the other way must be delusional and sick and devient.  

 

A man turning to a woman is honorable and worthy of nobel prizes and publicity and grandeure  and great and feeds nicely into the fembot movement and the women turning to men are rapey freakshows that we need to reject (not my sentiment but the narrative we are fed)

 

I used to blindly support Trans/Les/Gay etc and I am not against it, i just take the position that I want to make sure I am not glorifying and celebrating symptoms of abuse.  I have close friends who knew long before they knew what sex was that they were 'different' and gay.  I have others who had highly dysfunctional childhoods and their 'homosexuality' is an obvious symptom of their abuse and they even admit that  but neither of us are sure if it's then cureable or reversable in those cases and society is NOT ready to even discuss that, of course.  lol

 

Yeah... the problem I see with your argument is that it is the trans women who get harassed significantly more than trans men.

 

Trans women seem to trigger some sort of insecurity in many men.

[regevdl]

I can't say I am super upset by this; private stalls are private stalls. I am not sure why anyone pretends like they would be able to 'check' or 'enforce' any sort of gender segregation in bathrooms anyway...

 

 

What makes you so sure he is a trans man?

 

 

Yeah... the problem I see with your argument is that it is the trans women who get harassed significantly more than trans men.

 

Trans women seem to trigger some sort of insecurity in many men.

 

I am not sure in which context we are speaking and want to make sure we are on the same page.  From an individual level, I am not sure who gets harrassed more so I will take your word for it.  On a social level....let's say aggregate/media narrative this might be true (and sorry..by Trans woman is that a woman who change to a man?  Or do I have it backwards?)  

 

In any case, my viewpoint was in the context of how it's unleashed in media and entertainment (aggregate perception).  You have showgirls or the entertainment business that is known for transgender or cross dress that is revered to a semi-socially acceptable level.

 

.  There is a political and social movement that is trying to jam down our throats that women are superior...not equal but superior.  As in.... Bruce Jenner the most recent example.  He is heroic and wonderful and all of this.  But how/why doesn't media and hollywood pick out any 'heroic' women who trans into men?  My argument was pointing this out that the culture-makers don't care about the women who change to men because it doesn't fit their narrative and agenda.  It's like in religions, people who convert are considered more holy than those who were 'born' into the religion.  But then if you leave the religion, it's as if you are a non-person....you either get treated like SH** or they act like you don't exist (ignore) etc.  THis is sort of how I see the issue with the transgender that there are more socially acceptable 'opportunities' for the men who change to women because of this fembot agenda to convince people women are better and ewewww..who would want to choose to be a man, etc.  if that makes sense.  I am not saying I agree with the fembots!!  good grief no!  lol  I'm just expressing my observation.

 

so maybe this plays into why on individual basis the woman are bullied more because they aren't glorified by media who shape the minds and opinions of most people (or attempts to)

[SoCaliGirl]

(and sorry..by Trans woman is that a woman who change to a man?  Or do I have it backwards?)

 

Transwoman is m2f

 

Transman is f2m

 

ie: The images above are transmen.

[csekavec]

What makes you so sure he is a trans man?

 

Because he told me when I asked him. 

 

Why does it matter if a person is talked about? Isn't normativity the whole point of being trans?

[regevdl]

Transwoman is m2f

 

Transman is f2m

 

ie: The images above are transmen.

Thanks for the clarification.  So yes..I still stand by my theory as to why.  Briefly again, the current culture is trying to ram down our throats that 'femenism' or 'equality of females' is lacking and must be equalized. (to the point that femenists need to invent problems and inequalities in order to solve them).

 

Anyway, so for that 'culture' it's insane for them to think a WOMAN would want to turn to a man so they simply under emphasis it or ignore it or down play it.  But a MAN switching to 'girl power' team...well..that fits the femenists just fine!

 

So I can appreciate your personal experience an interaction with over 200 (that number surprised me as high and I see your point in bringing this topic up).  But you mentioned they are under-represented in media and where my repsonse was trying to answer.  Within the community it was interesting what you shared as to their thoughts and perspective.  But as far as their underrepresentation in the media, it's clear the left SJW which includes the extreme femenists...aren't interested in the woman who are leaving team girl-power to be an 'icky boy' as they would see it....  basically they hate men so much that they would not want to glorify a woman who would willingly transform into the 'enemy' or the gender they perceive as the enemy.

[SoCaliGirl]

Because he told me when I asked him. 

 

Why does it matter if a person is talked about? Isn't normativity the whole point of being trans?

 

I didn't say anything about "mattering" if he is spoken about.

 

Simply asked what made you think he is trans.

 

A lot of people assume (often incorrectly) about whether or not someone is trans; that's why I asked. =)

 

As for your question/statement "Isn't normativity the whole point of being trans?"

 

I am quite sure most trans individuals would disagree with this statement.

 

It is my understanding that most trans individuals do not feel like they 'chose' to experience dysphoria or 'be trans'.

 

Some trans individuals don't mind being very open about it, many/most prefer to keep it to themselves with perhaps only closed loved ones being aware.

 

This seems to correlate with personality, pass-ability, stage of transition (assuming they transition) etc.

[Matthew Ed Moran]

I would argue there are going to be personality differences on average between a woman who wants to become a man, and a man who wants to become a woman. I would argue there are going to be differences just based on the social norms of society that trans people are basically left to rely their conception of what being the other sex is like, since they lack the fundamental biological characteristics of their chosen transition sex.

 

The social conception of the gender roles is very different. Women are given more attention when they are upset, while men are the silent workhorses. So a man who wants to become a woman is going to have to become accustomed or expecting of receiving attention when upset, and if they attention is not met they are going to feel cheated (like the general egg bearing woman does). However, I would argue society is not willing to give this attention, because the trans woman does not have eggs to justify white knighting for. But the media comes in to white knight for them, since the media's agenda is to portray anyone who isn't a white male as a victim, as a show of disregard and disrespect of the plight of males. They are doing it simply to attack the self esteem of males by denying them victim hood while in the process giving out victim hood to populations in society which are 1/100th as relevant from a population size standpoint. It has nothing to do with actual justice; it is to spite males.

 

So the type of man who wants to become a woman might have a personality that demands more attention and victim hood seeking than a woman who wants to become a man. Since the typical gender role for males is of silence in the face of pain, it wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination at all for trans men not only to be less provocative in general society, but to disregard or ignore when they are disrespected by others, since that is part of being male.

 

Anyway that's what came to me.

[Maquox]

The oligarchs benefit from the whole socialistomania that is tied to feminism. Showing trans men would make the fact that men also feel discrimination WAY too evident to maintain a calm population.

[SoCaliGirl]

The oligarchs benefit from the whole socialistomania that is tied to feminism. Showing trans men would make the fact that men also feel discrimination WAY too evident to maintain a calm population.

 

Can you elaborate on "Showing trans men would make the fact that men also feel discrimination WAY too evident" ?

[Maquox]

Can you elaborate on "Showing trans men would make the fact that men also feel discrimination WAY too evident" ?

In their world view, trans men are considered men. Their exposure would show that men must also comply to social norms which suck.

 

At least that's what I would guess, but ai might perfectly be wrong.

[SirrusDundle]

Not to mention that all the focus is on girls and women in bathrooms, which seems to bring out the "muh property" thing in a lot of tradcon men. If biological males are so dangerous, why no concern for the boys who have had to use the men's room forever? Unlike the trannies raping women trope, this is something that's happened.

[Donnadogsoth]

Not to mention that all the focus is on girls and women in bathrooms, which seems to bring out the "muh property" thing in a lot of tradcon men. If biological males are so dangerous, why no concern for the boys who have had to use the men's room forever? Unlike the trannies raping women trope, this is something that's happened.

 

Predatory homosexuals don't exist in the present media narrative.  Your boys are perfectly safe.

[Natalia]

I don’t know to which degree this is accurate, but I haven't seen anyone mention it yet. My guess is that trans men are not talked about because women don’t care or talk about trans men as much as men talk about trans women.

 

Furthermore, trans women spawn memes such as “it’s a trap!,” women don’t make memes. Trans women are featured in porn and anime, women don’t watch porn and anime. So the same does not happen with trans men.

 

Trans women are more discussed because they’re the ones who affect men, and men are the ones who discuss. It’s the same with homosexuality, nine out of ten times an homophobe will mention a gay couple instead of a lesbian one, because the former, unlike the latter, is repulsive for straight men, and men are the majority of homophobes or people discussing homosexuality in the first place. That's my guess.

[SirrusDundle]

I don't really understand the lesbian fetish so many other straight guys have. When I was growing up in the late 70s/early through mid 80s, it was not something we heard about. I'm sure it was probably a niche interest, hidden in the back rooms of certain newsstands. In fact, that was the first place i saw it manifested, in the form of a little publication called "Dykey Dormmates" or something like that. And then i didn't encounter it again until the late 90s, when it became the thing for frat bros to buy drinks for girls who would kiss each other. Anyhoo...

 

We straight guys must  be very confident people as a group, in spite of all the discouragement we face on a day to day basis. Where the less self assured would get the message that "Your services are no longer required," we hear "You can watch, and then join in, because you're so damned irresistible."

[Matthew Ed Moran]

I don't really understand the lesbian fetish so many other straight guys have. When I was growing up in the late 70s/early through mid 80s, it was not something we heard about. I'm sure it was probably a niche interest, hidden in the back rooms of certain newsstands. In fact, that was the first place i saw it manifested, in the form of a little publication called "Dykey Dormmates" or something like that. And then i didn't encounter it again until the late 90s, when it became the thing for frat bros to buy drinks for girls who would kiss each other. Anyhoo...

 

We straight guys must  be very confident people as a group, in spite of all the discouragement we face on a day to day basis. Where the less self assured would get the message that "Your services are no longer required," we hear "You can watch, and then join in, because you're so damned irresistible."

 

According to a quick google search, women are 130% more likely to watch lesbian porn than men. 

[Matthew Ed Moran]

I assume you mean on the basis of a given individual. Like, I am more likely to google lesbian porn than any other term, whereas a given man might google (bing I guess) 1,000 other things first. However, those numbers are meaningless when dwarfed by the fact that men as a collective are so much more likely to view porn, and to consume thousands of times more than women as a collective. In absolute terms, I am guessing that men consume much, much more lesbian porn than women do.

 

Unfortunately, the internet is completely cucked and my search results only care to talk about women's porn preferences. I could do some math to solve the problem. But, meh...

 

It's from Pornhub (an academic institute) statistics that women search for lesbian porn 132% more often than men (on an individual basis I'm guessing). I haven't seen the data first hand, but lesbian porn is only the 6th most searched for porn by men according to it.

 

I hear you, I wish there was more rock solid data...

 

Apparently men are 70% of the adult content market according to Risky Business, a movie about the adult entertainment industry. What that means exactly, I don't know because I haven't watched the movie.

 

Pornhub is not an academic institute, please do not go there at work.

 

Edit: Sorry recent posters for going off-topic. 

[SirrusDundle]

I would argue there are going to be personality differences on average between a woman who wants to become a man, and a man who wants to become a woman. I would argue there are going to be differences just based on the social norms of society that trans people are basically left to rely their conception of what being the other sex is like, since they lack the fundamental biological characteristics of their chosen transition sex.

 

The social conception of the gender roles is very different. Women are given more attention when they are upset, while men are the silent workhorses. So a man who wants to become a woman is going to have to become accustomed or expecting of receiving attention when upset, and if they attention is not met they are going to feel cheated (like the general egg bearing woman does). However, I would argue society is not willing to give this attention, because the trans woman does not have eggs to justify white knighting for. But the media comes in to white knight for them, since the media's agenda is to portray anyone who isn't a white male as a victim, as a show of disregard and disrespect of the plight of males. They are doing it simply to attack the self esteem of males by denying them victim hood while in the process giving out victim hood to populations in society which are 1/100th as relevant from a population size standpoint. It has nothing to do with actual justice; it is to spite males.

 

So the type of man who wants to become a woman might have a personality that demands more attention and victim hood seeking than a woman who wants to become a man. Since the typical gender role for males is of silence in the face of pain, it wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination at all for trans men not only to be less provocative in general society, but to disregard or ignore when they are disrespected by others, since that is part of being male.

 

Anyway that's what came to me.

You are probably correct, and personality differences between men who become women early in life, and those who do so late in life. This is one reason the TG movement as such is so suspect.