fractional slacker Posted March 27, 2016 Posted March 27, 2016 More misandry dressed up as anti "sexual harassment." I would like to punch this woman's husband for the crime of giving her children - children she will likely infect with this bigotry and prejudice. Despicable.http://www.scarymommy.com/raising-boys-sexual-harassment/ 1 1
luxfelix Posted March 28, 2016 Posted March 28, 2016 Twelve is such a fascinating age, with a wide range of behavior: While my daughter dreams she is in a Harry Potter movie and still plays with dolls, some of her classmates are dating and becoming sexually active (yes, they are, whether we want to admit it or not). Edit: r/K topic tie-in?
st434u Posted March 28, 2016 Posted March 28, 2016 Where's the misandy? The woman writing the article is completely right. In fact, I don't think that's enough. The boy (or his parents, and/or the school) should also be made to restitute the girl for sexual assault. She didn't say the same doesn't also apply if the victim is a boy and the aggressor is a girl. 1
Troubador Posted March 28, 2016 Posted March 28, 2016 Ummm I can kind of get the self defense argument, but deliberately striking the throat can easily be lethal. I'm not sure this is a proportionate response. In addition this is the precise point where girls can briefly be bigger than boys as puberty occurs earlier in females. A slap or a thump on the arm in self defense I could buy, but deliberately instructing your child to escalate to what could be lethal force is irresponsible.
fractional slacker Posted March 28, 2016 Author Posted March 28, 2016 Where's the misandy? The woman writing the article is completely right. In fact, I don't think that's enough. The boy (or his parents, and/or the school) should also be made to restitute the girl for sexual assault. She didn't say the same doesn't also apply if the victim is a boy and the aggressor is a girl. The woman author doesn't declare self defense as a universal right, a claim no one would dispute. She specifically states her daughter, and girls in general as victims of the patriarchy and sexual harassment, SHOULD use aggression against boys as first resort to a claim of "sexual harassment." In short, she is claiming violence as a moral principle by the following two quotes. from article: "She should punch him in the throat." from article: "I have also told her it is still the right thing to do." Which brings us to wonder exactly how sexual harassment can be defined. As far as I can tell it's another one of these vague, bottomless pits in which women draw from when seeking to justify aggression towards men. No doubt harassment exists, regardless the adjective you put before it. But more often than not, I would argue, the term is used as a weapon to gain advantage in a dispute. Furthermore, instructing young girls to use violence at any hint of sexual harassment, without a clear and concise definition, is reprehensible. Suggesting a combative escalation, as Troubador points out, is seriously messed up. Now imagine a man penning similar article instructing boys to violently lash out at perceived or, in fact, actual claims of sexual harassment. I wonder how many parenting blogs would champion that idea. Edit: r/K topic tie-in? Agreed. The r/K theory is applicable. However, bigotry, prejudice, and most importantly a claim of violence as virtue is what I found most problematic.
st434u Posted March 28, 2016 Posted March 28, 2016 Ummm I can kind of get the self defense argument, but deliberately striking the throat can easily be lethal. I'm not sure this is a proportionate response. In addition this is the precise point where girls can briefly be bigger than boys as puberty occurs earlier in females. A slap or a thump on the arm in self defense I could buy, but deliberately instructing your child to escalate to what could be lethal force is irresponsible. The aggressor doesn't get the benefit of claiming that the violent response perceived to be needed to stop him needs to be "proportionate". No. You initiate violence, you live with the consequences. The woman author doesn't declare self defense as a universal right, a claim no one would dispute. She specifically states her daughter, and girls in general as victims of the patriarchy and sexual harassment, SHOULD use aggression against boys as first resort to a claim of "sexual harassment." In short, she is claiming violence as a moral principle by the following two quotes. No, she was very specific about what acts of aggression were needed to justify the response she was talking about. She wasn't vague at all. 1
Troubador Posted March 28, 2016 Posted March 28, 2016 The aggressor isn't making the claim, I am. If common sense isn't applied re: reasonable force, we all lose out. Now obviously in the cut and thrust of physical altercations of course more injury can be sustained to an aggressor than you might intend, and yes that's the dice the aggressor is rolling when they start something. However if some nimrod pulls my pants down in a public place to cause me embarrassment, and I proceed to strike his neck and it crushes his trachea I've clearly gone too far. I would also call into question the assertion of the original article that this was even sexual harassment. If this is a class of 12 year olds I very much doubt there was a psychosexual element as although males can go through puberty as young as 10 that is a rare outlier, and much more likely kids acting rambunctiously. Making it "sexual harassment" overstates the case and makes it an appeal to emotion rather than reason. Instructing children to use potentially lethal acts when their all learning the correct way of behaving with one another is pure madness. I fully expect my own son will make mistakes growing up in learning how to treat people and yes any bad actions are on me to correct and make restitution for, but as parents in the name of reciprocity we all need to entertain a bit of perspective. A potential death penalty for the infraction of snapping a bra strap at the age of 12 is out of all proportion.
st434u Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 I would also call into question the assertion of the original article that this was even sexual harassment. If this is a class of 12 year olds I very much doubt there was a psychosexual element as although males can go through puberty as young as 10 that is a rare outlier, and much more likely kids acting rambunctiously. Making it "sexual harassment" overstates the case and makes it an appeal to emotion rather than reason. What does that even mean? Of course it's an appeal to emotion because it's emotions we're talking about, and we use reason to navigate our responses. Saying "they're just kids so it's not a sexual attack" is completely morally bankrupt. If anything a 12 year old girl should feel more secure that her body won't be sexually attack than an adult woman, but you're flipping it around and saying, hey, if it's a 12 year old boy that does it, it doesn't count. No, it absolutely counts and the damage is the same or possibly even more as if an adult man was doing it. In a situation like that it's perfectly reasonable to want vengeance, but not just that, the girl needs to make sure that her attacker is incapacitated. A slap in the arm is a joke, almost inciting him and other boys to continue to attack her. You need to seriously reconsider your perspectives. What if this was your daughter? Or maybe you did things like this when you were a boy and are trying to excuse your crimes by saying that it was all in good fun, or you were just trying to learn how to behave. No. A 12 year old boy is perfectly capable of understanding what he is allowed to do and what things constitute crimes against others.
fractional slacker Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 Author of article is an advocate and promoter of kid fighting. What more needs to be said. Teaching kids to fight first ,without any due process, is an automatic disqualification from good parenting club. Teaching self defense against battery or assault (AKA NAP) is something no reasonable person could disagree with.Anyone want to speculate on why the author fails to give example of when a boy can hit a girl? 1
luxfelix Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 Anyone want to speculate on why the author fails to give example of when a boy can hit a girl? Low-hanging Fruit: Political Correctness? Higher-hanging Fruit: Author's relationship with father/brother(s)?
regevdl Posted March 30, 2016 Posted March 30, 2016 When I was in H.S. a boy who sat behind be did this continually, despite me trying to resolve it directly with him and with the teacher. After I exhausted all appropriate avenues of resolution, I told him if he does it again I will hit him. The next day he did it again to call my bluff and coincidnetally my bra came undone! I was LIVID and embarrassed as hell. That is awkward age for ALL ages and I was always made fun of my 'flat chest'. But I turned around and open handed bitch slapped his face.... like HARD....it hurt the hell out of my hand I slapped him so hard.. I would have NEVER throat punched him....I agree that is very excessive and can really cause severe damage for a bra snapping but a hard slap will send a message that it won't be worth him trying anything more sinister. (meaning.... you never know if the teenager or older male will start with bra snapping and then if he sees you don't take decisive action against it might increase the harrassement) Coincidentally, I was at a college party many years later and he was there. I got too drunk and asked my friend (whom hosted the party) if I could spend the night since I wasn't fit to drive. That guy from H.S. played as the helpful friend and offered a sofa and he tried to come on to me. I kicked him in the groin and stumbled away. It was a wake up call to really be careful how much you drink even when you are AROUND friends who are looking after you. So that's why I saw...something that seems 'innocent' when they are young...if not dealt with, will manifest in these kids when they are bigger and stronger. I learned later that he was severely abused by his father. I knew the father spanked but I found out he also abused his wife my Classmate's mother) and such so It all sort of 'made sense' that he was a sadistic/predatory individual. And more than a decade later I found out he is a state-employee! sorry to add this off topic anecdote but he found me on FB and I ignored him but he private messaged me and I simply gave a cordial hello. Long story short, he was actually a 'top' student and always made good grades even if he didn't study. So when he told me he was a ranger at a national park I made the comment that it makes sense that he succeeded in the government educational system as was rewarded with a government job. He laughed and made a flirty comment about the 'good old days' of H.S. and I simply told him I am not interested in continuing any connection with him and blocked him. Even 6000 miles away an online the guy still gave me the creeps! Anyway, he and the class was stunned..clearly they had no idea why the hell I did that as they had ZERO context. The teacher didn't do much which gave me the feeling that he knew since I had approached him days earlier about the problem. So I received zero recourse from the teacher but neither did the male student as I guess the teacher felt I gave enough recourse. Looking back I'm glad and I think had I not at least calmly told the teacher wihtout really asking for his intervention, it probably saved me a lot of headache as I could have really gotten in trouble for that despite the bra-snapping if I did that and the teacher had no advance context of the issues I was having with my classmate. But I would also encourage my daughter (and son!) to state her boundaries (and if she's a minor) to let an adult know of the situation and if it persists to use physical force to stop it.
Mister Mister Posted March 30, 2016 Posted March 30, 2016 Is she also teaching her daughter how to properly throw a punch? Seems to me dangerous to teach her to pick a fight with aggressive boys who are probably stronger. She may be consuming lots of media where a hot skinny chick takes out multiple well-trained men with fancy spinning kicks, but reality isn't like that.
fractional slacker Posted March 31, 2016 Author Posted March 31, 2016 regevdl I am sorry that happened to you. No one deserves unwanted touching no matter the age or gender. That the school didn't rectify the situation after the first occurrence is inexcusable. The first job of every "school" teacher is to protect kids in the classroom. Were your parents any help to you with that situation?
regevdl Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 regevdl I am sorry that happened to you. No one deserves unwanted touching no matter the age or gender. That the school didn't rectify the situation after the first occurrence is inexcusable. The first job of every "school" teacher is to protect kids in the classroom. Were your parents any help to you with that situation? Thanks for you empathy. Actually I am and never was close to my family and would never involve them with any school situation, especially if there was any potential for me to get in trouble (even if I was in the right, they would have NEVER taken my side or stand up for me) so I felt that my physical response (after trying to handle it one on one and with the teacher) was enough restittuion because he at least didn't do that again and sort of backed off for the rest of my H.S. experience. And it sent a signal to other boys to just don't mess with me by inappropriate touching. I got verbally mocked from there forward...not often but I am sharp and witty and woudl crush them with words. lol
fractional slacker Posted March 31, 2016 Author Posted March 31, 2016 regevdl Your parents were not in your corner? %*^&^*^(%$%^$%^! I am so sorry. Glad things improved after you knocked some sense into the jerk behind you.
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