Where to start an Anarchist "country"/territory

[AncapFTW]

I thought of a few ideas on how we could start one form scratch instead of trying to convert an existing country into an anarchist model, where there would be a large amount of resistance.

 

1) Buy land from a country, with the fact that it is sovereign territory being specified in the deed.  I suggest either Canada, Russia, or Greenland, as they are sparely populated and have large areas of land they don't use.  This would give you legitimacy in the view of other countries.  This might necessitate the formation of a minarchist government, though the constitution could speculate that the government must be periodically (I suggest every five years) ratified by a popular vote or it loses power and has to sell off all of its assets to the people.  Also, you could join the UN temporarily to gain more legitimacy.

 

2) Settle Antarctica.  The problem (or possibly the benefit) of this is that by treaty no country can colonize it, so depending on how the other nations see you, you could either be breaking the treaty or protected from invasion by it.

 

3) Seasteading.  Either a floating city or an underwater city.  This would be expensive, but you would have access to underwater resources such as oil and ores, which may be plentiful.  Major problems include the engineering issues and the fact that homesteading would be expensive until the tech caught up.

 

4) Native American reservations have special treatment under US Law, and it may be possible to get one of them to help you in some way.  Maybe if they bought the land with your money, then made it a territory?  You would still be subject to some US laws, such as only being able to sentence people to up to 3 years in jail, but their could be a work around such as indentured servitude, though it's illegal in the US, so I'm not sure how legal it would be.  I'd have to research this.

 

Does anyone have any other ideas how it could be done, or do you see any other pros/cons with any of these ideas?

[dsayers]

Does anyone have any other ideas how it could be done?

Yes. Accept that people cannot exist in different, opposing moral categories, live your values, and cut toxic people out of your life. Welcome home!

 

Setting out to accomplish the impossible is just a way of avoiding what will actually work for YOU in YOUR life.

[AncapFTW]

Yes. Accept that people cannot exist in different, opposing moral categories, live your values, and cut toxic people out of your life. Welcome home!

 

Setting out to accomplish the impossible is just a way of avoiding what will actually work for YOU in YOUR life.

When you live in a society in which toxic people can and will force themselves into your life at the point of a gun, that isn't entirely possible.  This topic is about how to create a new society in which those people don't exist.

 

You are assuming that it is impossible without proof or even an argument as to why it is impossible.  Sounds like a way of avoiding the idea to me, almost as if you aren't seriously considering it.

[Laforge]

Focusing mainly on step #1, I really feel attracted to your idea. The "Liberland project" is pretty close to what you're describing though that is not attractive to me due to the small and expensive space. Am i correct in comparing this idea to Adam Kokesh's current homesteading project?

I see some big hurdles though. What if... what if some really evil people within the group decide to:
- work for other people within the group and NOT pay a 21% tax to the host country?
- completely ignore building codes, disallow police on their roads, don't register firearms, smoke weed in public,...?

Unfortunately i think the current world would simply halt the project when these "criminal manifestations" begin.
 

[AncapFTW]

Focusing mainly on step #1, I really feel attracted to your idea. The "Liberland project" is pretty close to what you're describing though that is not attractive to me due to the small and expensive space. Am i correct in comparing this idea to Adam Kokesh's current homesteading project?

 

I see some big hurdles though. What if... what if some really evil people within the group decide to:

- work for other people within the group and NOT pay a 21% tax to the host country?

- completely ignore building codes, disallow police on their roads, don't register firearms, smoke weed in public,...?

 

Unfortunately i think the current world would simply halt the project when these "criminal manifestations" begin.

 

That's why it would have to be specified that it was sovereign territory.  Otherwise, you're doing little more than starting a new city or state/territory.  No one cares if another country lets its own citizens do things that are illegal in the first country.  Just think of all of the human rights violations people ignore in other lands.  minor laws like drug offenses would be meaningless.  Now, if Canada caught people exporting cocaine into their country through Ancapistan they might have problems with it, but they could deal with it by arresting the offending people.  If they entered Ancapistan they'd have to arbitrate the extradition.

[RichardY]

1) Although you could buy land in the country, you would still be subject to the country's laws. If by some chance you were able to obtain exemptions from the laws, you would still be faced with the task of building a self sufficient community with a living standard people would accept. Very few communities in my opinion can do this, I am thinking the Hutterites and Amish in Canada and the USA or the Volga Germans in Russia, although many of them fled back to Germany I think during or before the Russian Revolution, many Ukrainians homesteaded the west of Canada, to avoid Stalin.

 

2) Again living standard, plus international arguments of who gets a slice of the Antarctic mineral wealth, assuming technology is advanced enough to make it viable.

 

3)Living Standard and Technology, there is however an abandoned Oil rig called Sealand, but again you would be faced with Living Standard plus possible legal issues. I'm not sure how viable Rapture is at the moment, maybe there is some company mining underwater mineral deposits or using energy from volcanic vents, it would be interesting to see in person.

 

4) The Native American Reservation option would not be Ideal, in Navajo territory in the USA no alcohol is allowed and many of the reservations from what I know are in areas of more marginal land or sometimes in flood risk areas in Canada. Some tribes are also very corrupt with the Chief receiving money from the government as “Restitution” to which he decides who will have and have not. There are probably some that do very well for themselves more legitimately, it was interesting to see in a supermarket near Monument Valley that the Native Americans have cards to obtain a discount.

 

In Canada I was surprised to learn that many of the Native Americans are exempted from some taxation, including alcohol and tobacco, they also have special privileges on fishing rights and some cast nets across the rivers, eat a few fish and discard the rest, which are now dead. They are also allowed advertisements on the roadside, not allowed to regular citizens (Vancouver Island). The Royal Canadian Mounted Police are also not allowed to enter a reservation from what I have heard ( maybe there are exceptions) even in a case an Indian Chief committing Rape.

[AncapFTW]

If you buy the land from Canada, couldn't you buy the supplies you'd need to build it in Canada?  There are probably mining/pipeline/lumberjack cities that already do his to model this after.   It may take a while to stabilize to the point where your exports equal your imports in value, but with enough investments it should work.

 

Power would be the main problem, as it can't be bought in bulk and shipped in, but you could probably pay to run a line from Canada or run on generators in the beginning.  A 30kw diesel generator could power a small town of a few dozen people.

[rosencrantz]

 I suggest either Canada, Russia, or Greenland, as they are sparely populated and have large areas of land they don't use.

 

There is a reason sparely populated is sparely populated.

[RichardY]

Its quite possible you could start a community in Canada. Just talking about British Columbia, much of the land has small rivers which could be damned to supply ample Hydro Electric, they export cheaper to the USA than Canadians. Unfortunately there is also a granted Government Monopoly to British Hydro, they decide who dams the Rivers. If you want to lumberjack (death rate is high), there are quotas for cutting logs that are purchased from the state at extortionate cost, might be a reason why the men on the TV show axemen have to work hard and fast.

I think you might be allowed to grow food still, but there are laws on selling it

 

If you embrace buddy Jesus, the Mennonites or Hutterites might take you in, they have various compounds and from what I have heard one of them only buys within there own community. You can sing Kumbaya my Lord as the rest of the World or at least Europe goes up in flames    Kind of appeals to me the simple lifestyle, beautiful landscape, maybe I could fake believing in God or cut out a section of my brain.

[AncapFTW]

Could micro-hydro dams work, as they don't require you to dam the river? Also, if you just cut enough trees to supply the area with building materials, do you still need a license?  Maybe you could let an existing company do it in exchange for them giving you a percentage of the trees back in lumber.

[dsayers]

When you live in a society in which toxic people can and will force themselves into your life at the point of a gun, that isn't entirely possible.  This topic is about how to create a new society in which those people don't exist.

 

You are assuming that it is impossible without proof or even an argument as to why it is impossible.  Sounds like a way of avoiding the idea to me, almost as if you aren't seriously considering it.

So... People willing to claim ownership over you would interfere with you living your values, but not with you trying to move half way around the world to live someplace else? And by moving to this someplace else, you make it so that aggression no longer exists?

 

Yes, I can see that one of us isn't seriously considering things.

[AncapFTW]

So... People willing to claim ownership over you would interfere with you living your values, but not with you trying to move half way around the world to live someplace else? And by moving to this someplace else, you make it so that aggression no longer exists?

 

Yes, I can see that one of us isn't seriously considering things.

It's easier to herd a sheep if it's in the field than when it escapes.  Also, they have provisions in place for sheep to leave the farm, which they have to abide by somewhat or risk frightening the remaining sheep.  So, yeah, they won't bother you as much after you leave.

 

No, you make it so that the people you surround yourself with have similar values to yours, will respect your views, and won't try to use violence to make you comply with their demands.  If no one is there, then the people will have to move in, and if you have a population of anarchist in the area before people start immigrating, they are much more likely to at least respect the idea of anarchy.

 

Thanks for admitting it.