An appropriate response?

[Jakethehuman]

Hi I have recently had some personal experience with someone being basically lynched in public the whole Facebook rage and protests there was even a petition with thousands of signatures.

 

So a guy I worked with for a few months has some pretty serious issues, his father overdosed on heroin when the guy was a child, his mother was also an addict when he was born, she finally got off it but turned to alcohol instead, he spent time living on the street and recounted a story where he went to a friends house at a young age after not having ahead anything to eat for a few days, when offered food he initially declined but at the parents insistence he ended up stuffing his face like it was his last meal. After a violent youth he was arrested at age 19 for assault and served some time in jail, a few years later he spat at 4 police officers and got 4 charges of serious assault and did no jail time, which makes me think the charges were somewhat trumped up.

 

A bit over a year before I met him he had just been released from jail, I'm not sure what that was for. He told me had a sexual relationship with his parole officer who subsequently lost her job, he said she helped him get a job and start to turn his life around, at the time I met him she had cheated on him and he seemed to be going down hill. A month after I started working with him his sister commited suicide and he really hit the wall, he told me about her and it seemed it was the best relationship in his life, he talked about being depressed and not being able to work it was really a tough time. In December last year a month after his sister, his mum commited suicide. He came to work the next day and I was not aware, it amazed me he was able to function albeit certainly not at 100%. when he went to his mums house he found her suicide not and upon reading it her swallowed her bottle of prescription pills, and jumped in the car, soon after he passed out, there was no damage or harm to anything or anyone. The ambulance arrived and put him in the back and were monitoring him while unconscious.

 

He woke in the back and apparently screamed I'm going to kill you, to one of the ambos and then attacked him, leaving him with a black eye and busted eyebrow. He says he has no memory of the night. He was released on bail but lost his job, in the next few months paramedics and social media groups around the country have been calling for harsh sentencing. He was recently sentenced to 18 months with parole after 6. Social media blew up with various people demanding the maximum 14 years, many saying a life sentence and some even saying he should have died that night.

 

I shared my knowledge of the situation on Facebook and have been roundly condemned as a supporter of violence,

an idiot etc. all I said is that he deserves some empathy and jail never helped anyone. What do you think?

[Cornetto97]

Well i mean you could start with this:

 

http://www.nij.gov/topics/corrections/recidivism/pages/welcome.aspx#statistics

 

Recidivism, the most clear sign that the criminal justice system is fundamentally a complete misdirection of resources. Resources - as in tax dollars - one thing that tends to get people is when the state is not using tax dollaes efficiently. So you could couple that with the one two punch of USA spending a total of between 60-70 billion dollars a year, in 2008 alone it was at $75 billion()and the fact that it costs on average $23,876 a year to house one inmate, and 30,000 a year for inmate drug rehabilitation. But here's what'll stump them to rehabilitate that same prisoner outside prison... $8,000*.

Something like that could be used, and i mean if they are still hysterical after these stats that speak for themselves and refuse to give any empirical data supporting the claim that longer jail sentences go hand in hand with "rehabilitation" and "corrections", then i mean they're clearly not going to listen to anything else but their obnoxious self righteousness.

 

This is American stats by the way, (i assumed since majority of fdr members appear to be from USA or europe i'd just go with USA) it took me about 10 minutes to dig this up, so if you want to get some data from another country if you're not from America then it shouldn't take that long, and odds are the stats will show the same perpetual multi billion dollar production line of yo-yos that constantly come back.

 

*https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

 

()https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://cepr.net/documents/publications/incarceration-2010-06.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiiuvyhloTMAhXCxqYKHeg8BJ4QFggkMAM&usg=AFQjCNGmnzoE23ROGOJMe7F5fdsyjKximA&sig2=mkPtZkTGLltWY_L484g5kw

[chromanin]

Sounds like he experienced some psychosis, and understandably so. Tragic life. He needs treatment for likely hereditary mental health issues and grounding to something healthy. I would guess that he is potentially dangerous given how traumatized and depressed he must be, but prison obviously won't ameliorate that. Tough situation.

[Jakethehuman]

I appreciate that info, but yeah they are way beyond reading any links, one mentioned "my beloved gf" using her full name and asked how I would feel if it was her who got attacked.im getting off Facebook again.

 

My point was more wondering if I'm wrong for thinking the guy needs sympathy and what response or help he should get

[Cornetto97]

My point was more wondering if I'm wrong for thinking the guy needs sympathy and what response or help he should get

He clearly has never had anyone in his life to look up to for guidance as a youth, no one there to foster growth in his formative years. From the sound of it his mum neglected him, as many drug ridden mothers tend to do with children. The only other people it seems in his life who could impart on him anything of worth left his life on tragic circumstances. So yeah, if prison was the right way to go then he would not have served 2 prior sentences. So clearly isolating him from society, mixing him in with some much harder offenders, in an environment where corruption and illegal activities run rampant, is not working. So your deffinently right in saying this man will not in any way gain from 15 years in prison, be it any prison for that matter. So he clearly needs some intensive therapy, someone there to help him find a job, give him some accountability by earning his own money. But deffinently intensive therapy. I mean ideally he would be punished by paying damages on the person he attacked, and that's it.

[Cornetto97]

Why do you think you may be wrong in giving him sympathy? When you weigh it all up you are well within reason to suggest giving him sympathy. On one hand you have stepped back and looked at the guys situation, seen a hell hole that no one should be subjected to, and said, no prison clearly won't fix him. His upbringing and life in general has been filled with turmoil, multiple arrests and prison sentences. And you have suggested to give him some sympathy, and instead of throwing the iron fist of criminal justice in his face, you have suggested it's best to get to the cause of his behavioural tendancies, (most likely rooted in childhood), and to understand and sympathise with the fact that his life never got to a good start. The plane by the sounds of it crashed on the runway, and never really had a good chance to take off. They on the other hand are vehemently crying for the harshest of prison sentences, in a medieval style burn the witch at the stake, shoot first don't even ask questiins later (let alone before) fashion. They're attacking the pilot without the slightest thought about the actual plane itself.

 

So yeah you're justified in your response. But it is they, the one's who are just denying any examination of causality, the one's who felt so threatened by such a reasoned proposition, that they would commit to vertical attacks in an act to supress you; It is they who should question their response. You gave them your response, and a reasoned peaceful argument, and they responded in a childish manner. So i mean given the manner of their responses, it shouldn't give you pause to question whether your call for sympathy and better understanding is the right response.

 

With regards to the possible help he should get, well sympathy amd empathy would be a start. The guy has clearly rarely been given it especially by those who should be giving understanding and compassion. Intensive therapy, and introspection would also be a good place to start. He really should be intensely helped along in etablishing, and grounding some of the very traumatic experiences of his childhood in particular, and the degree to which he has felt that resonate with him as an adult And whether he feels that has provoked his criminal behaviour in some way, and fostered it even. I mean i guess it shouldn't just be all sympathy, you chose nothing, and it's everyone else's fault type thing, that would be incorrect, and would focus too much energy and possible anger towards external factors out of his control which wouldn't bring about any of the deep introspection needed to begin to help such broken development. Has that helped you out a little?

[Jakethehuman]

Why do you think you may be wrong in giving him sympathy? When you weigh it all up you are well within reason to suggest giving him sympathy. On one hand you have stepped back and looked at the guys situation, seen a hell hole that no one should be subjected to, and said, no prison clearly won't fix him. His upbringing and life in general has been filled with turmoil, multiple arrests and prison sentences. And you have suggested to give him some sympathy, and instead of throwing the iron fist of criminal justice in his face, you have suggested it's best to get to the cause of his behavioural tendancies, (most likely rooted in childhood), and to understand and sympathise with the fact that his life never got to a good start. The plane by the sounds of it crashed on the runway, and never really had a good chance to take off. They on the other hand are vehemently crying for the harshest of prison sentences, in a medieval style burn the witch at the stake, shoot first don't even ask questiins later (let alone before) fashion. They're attacking the pilot without the slightest thought about the actual plane itself.

 

So yeah you're justified in your response. But it is they, the one's who are just denying any examination of causality, the one's who felt so threatened by such a reasoned proposition, that they would commit to vertical attacks in an act to supress you; It is they who should question their response. You gave them your response, and a reasoned peaceful argument, and they responded in a childish manner. So i mean given the manner of their responses, it shouldn't give you pause to question whether your call for sympathy and better understanding is the right response.

 

With regards to the possible help he should get, well sympathy amd empathy would be a start. The guy has clearly rarely been given it especially by those who should be giving understanding and compassion. Intensive therapy, and introspection would also be a good place to start. He really should be intensely helped along in etablishing, and grounding some of the very traumatic experiences of his childhood in particular, and the degree to which he has felt that resonate with him as an adult And whether he feels that has provoked his criminal behaviour in some way, and fostered it even. I mean i guess it shouldn't just be all sympathy, you chose nothing, and it's everyone else's fault type thing, that would be incorrect, and would focus too much energy and possible anger towards external factors out of his control which wouldn't bring about any of the deep introspection needed to begin to help such broken development. Has that helped you out a little?

Very much so, I think I was just confused because he clearly made bad decisions but also I have no way of knowing what I would be like in his situation. Which is what I tried to tell the other people, they said stuff like he was "having a bad week" or "just another sob story" I knew I was right but also it is hard to push through over 100 negative comments without a single one to back me up. Gotta get used to it though thanks mate

[Canadian]

The ambulance should have had him restrained and unable to lash out.

- I knew this story was going downhill as soon as I saw "Facebook."

[Cornetto97]

Very much so, I think I was just confused because he clearly made bad decisions but also I have no way of knowing what I would be like in his situation. Which is what I tried to tell the other people, they said stuff like he was "having a bad week" or "just another sob story" I knew I was right but also it is hard to push through over 100 negative comments without a single one to back me up. Gotta get used to it though thanks mate

 

No problem, it can be quite difficult, especially when posting on social media where you are prone to the mob style, verbal gang attacks people use these days.