Alin Posted April 18, 2016 Posted April 18, 2016 Hey. I've been a donator for the show untill recently when I stopped because I need money to move alone and finally escape hell. This question is for people here who have done therapy. Are there any tips/recommendations you would give, when picking an effective one? Should we talk about childhood? If he doesn't, does that mean it won't help and I should move on? How can I tell if he's an effective therapist or not without wasting money? I really don't know Thx for help
shnugwa Posted April 18, 2016 Posted April 18, 2016 Great question, Alin! I'm sorry to hear that your situation is presently hellish, but from my personal experience with pursuing self-knowledge and therapy, you're on track in seeking help to transform your life for the better. Congratulations! Now to answer your question... 1) Trust your gut If you feel as though your therapist isn't genuinely interested in helping, if he's apparently disconnected from his own emotions, or if she's otherwise sending shivers down your spine, honor your gut assessment and continue your search. I was lucky enough to strike gold in finding my first therapist, but I've had plenty of friends who've gone through several. They routinely say that they could tell within the first couple of meetings that the therapy wasn't going to be beneficial; usually they could tell in their very first interaction / gut reaction. 2) Prepare a list of important questions to as your potential therapist Don't be afraid to bring thought-provoking or challenging questions, either! "What is your definition of closure?" "How do you know when you've healed from trauma?" "How do you know when a relationship with one's parents isn't salvageable?" These are off-the-cuff examples, but I'm sure you get the general picture: ask IMPORTANT questions that will offer you a glimpse into the mental framework of your therapist. Does his or her values align with yours? Great, the potential for a relationship exists. Do they conflict? Talk about it if you think it's worth your while, but otherwise continue the search! The value added from this tip is two-fold: For one, you get to save yourself time by seeing where potential conflict in values lie in the first meeting, rather than 2 months down the road. Second, you're setting the standards high for both yourself and your therapist, who'll know to bring his or her A-game when dealing with a properly prepared client! 3) Start Journaling. I wish I had started journaling as soon as I began therapy. I didn't, but the process of journaling my thoughts down after a session, and in between sessions allows me to stay grounded and connected to my higher self. It allows me to prevent negative patterns of behavior and overall is a net positive in my life. Stef made a great video which I used to help think of questions for my first therapist, check it out: Here's a free resource for finding IFS therapists! http://www.selfleadershipfoundation.org I think that you're off to a great start, asking these important questions on such a helpful platform as these boards! I hope you'll find valuable feedback that sets you on the path towards well-being and success. Best of luck, Alin! 2
Kevin Beal Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 There's a podcast on this very topic called FDR1927 How to Find a Great Therapist! Fellow board member Max Tsymbalau wrote an article about this too. I have some thoughts on this myself, having had a very successful therapy experience. I'll just assume for brevity's sake that you are dealing with some of the same sorts of issues that I was dealing with, and because they're pretty common (poor self esteem, depression, anxiety, aimlessness, self doubt, etc). ------------- Trust is #1 The research seems to show that the school of therapy a therapist comes from is not a very important consideration when compared to the relationship you have with the therapist. It's really important that you are able to establish a lot of trust with the therapist. Reconnecting with long denied or emerging aspects of yourself is really difficult work and you don't want to have doubts about your therapist's motives or competence because that is going to pull you farther away from yourself. When we develop relationships with people, we internalize aspects of their personality and we anticipate what they will say or do. If they demonstrate a desire for you not to be your authentic self in any way, you will become less of your authentic self when you're around them, without even thinking about it. You don't want that with your therapist. That's especially difficult if that's something you experienced when you were younger and it had a negative impact on your life. Be Fearless Ask for what you want, be ready to say what you don't like, express skepticism if it's there. You are paying them, and if you aren't satisfied with their service, then you need to say so. And even more than that, this is the best way to establish trust in the relationship. As you learn to have productive, healthy disagreements and practice this kind of assertiveness, you will either build a ton of trust really quickly and get the most for your money, or you will find out quickly that you can't trust them and go interview other therapists. Obviously, the therapist has more experience with working on mental health, and you wouldn't be there if they weren't an authority on the subject, but if you don't understand why they say or suggest what they do, you're not going to learn how to be your own therapist nearly as quickly. Don't be a jerk, obviously, but be curious and get the knowledge you need to make therapy work for you. Be Self Directed Some people seem to think that if they go into therapy, they get some kind of points that they can redeem for self knowledge and happiness. Simply showing up means nothing; you've gotta take yourself and your future happiness seriously. (You develop this quality over time with the help of your therapist). It serves as a constant reminder that you are worth the effort, that the quality of your life is important. Your unconscious will pick up on this and lend you creativity and insight. It keeps therapy interesting and useful because you have more skin in the game. Also, your therapist will appreciate it because you'll be clearer on what you want and what is/isn't working for you. You are doing and not just absorbing. People who just receive insight and don't put principles to work in their own lives don't grow. Actions speak, words only kind of do, sometimes. Your unconscious will take your actions more seriously than your words too. You will be more goal oriented. Having some kind of measure of success and being mindful of whether or not you achieve it will improve your self esteem. Having a sense of control over your life is extremely important for self esteem. Beware Therapists have their own issues and may f*ck up in whatever way in the relationship. If talking about it increases the level of trust, and it humanizes them in your mind, then that's exactly what you want. If they don't own up to their mistakes, then that's something which will fester and reduce the level of trust in the therapeutic relationship. You may develop romantic feelings for your therapist. This is actually pretty common and it's called "romantic transference". For a lot of people, therapy is the first place where we experience deep levels of emotional intimacy and that can be confusing or awkward. Just know that you aren't alone. Be fearless and talk about it with your therapist because it's sure to develop trust. There are a lot of bad therapists out there. Trust your gut. If you only grow more doubtful as you try to establish trust, then that is probably because the therapist isn't a good one. There are a lot of therapists out there who have processed very little of the reasons they were drawn to the profession in the first place, and are there to reenact some past relationship in their heads with you as their emotionally absent or narcissistic father. Some therapists may want to keep you there to make money. So, being self directed as possible guards against this. If you suspect this may be happening, or are concerned with how long it's taking, definitely, absolutely bring that up with them! You will have trouble bringing things up. Do it anyway. If it's important for trust in the relationship or important for your future health and happiness, then you owe yourself that. ------------- If you want to talk about childhood stuff, then that's a perfect interview question! You are paying them, so the topic is largely up to you. If you want to achieve closure about childhood grief/trauma, then that's a perfectly respectable and reasonable thing to ask for. It helped me a great deal to talk about it, if only to de-stigmatize it and see if I was crazy for feeling the way I did, or think what I do about it. The best thing you can do at this stage is trust your gut. There are too many things that could be interpreted either way given a certain context. They may say that talking about childhood is not helpful for you at this time, and that may be true or it may be cowardice on their part; it depends. I suggest preparing a bunch of questions for the interview and paying close attention to how you feel when they respond. Here are a few questions that I asked: How do you feel about the prospect of me vomiting up a lot of grief and anxiety all at once in the conversation? Is there a place for breaking contact with family members, esp. parents? Have you had much success counseling people with depression and anxiety? How do you determine success? etc. 5
MrVitaminP Posted May 12, 2016 Posted May 12, 2016 I have read multiple of these threads that have come up over time. And, I have listened to the linked podcasts/videos. I have read through the linked articles and blog posts. It seems like good advice. But, most of it seems to be oriented on finding out if the therapist you've selected is a good one or at the very least what you should ask to find that out. Yet, in my area there are literally hundreds of therapists. They have lots of fancy credentials. Where does one even start? How can I narrow down the list? Do I need to contact them one by one and try them out to see if there is a fit or is there a quicker/easier way to seperate the wheat from the chaff?
The Invisible Gorilla Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 Bessel van der Kolk (2014) offers some helpful advice in his recent book, The Body Keeps the Score. Choosing a Professional Therapist The training of competent trauma therapists involves learning about the impact of trauma, abuse, and neglect and mastering a variety of techniques that can help to (1) stabilize and calm patients down, (2) help to lay traumatic memories and reenactments to rest, and (3) reconnect patients with their fellow men and women. Ideally the therapist will also have been on the receiving end of whatever therapy he or she practices. While it’s inappropriate and unethical for therapists to tell you the details of their personal struggles, it is perfectly reasonable to ask what particular forms of therapy they have been trained in, where they learned their skills, and whether they’ve personally benefited from the therapy they propose for you. There is no one “treatment of choice” for trauma, and any therapist who believes that his or her particular method is the only answer to your problems is suspect of being an ideologue rather than somebody who is interested in making sure that you get well. No therapist can possibly be familiar with every effective treatment, and he or she must be open to your exploring options other than the ones he or she offers. He or she also must be open to learning from you. Gender, race, and personal background are relevant only if they interfere with helping the patient feel safe and understood. Do you feel basically comfortable with this therapist? Does he or she seem to feel comfortable in his or her own skin and with you as a fellow human being? Feeling safe is a necessary condition for you to confront your fears and anxieties. Someone who is stern, judgmental, agitated, or harsh is likely to leave you feeling scared, abandoned, and humiliated, and that won’t help you resolve your traumatic stress. There may be times as old feelings from the past are stirred up, when you become suspicious that the therapist resembles someone who once hurt or abused you. Hopefully, this is something you can work through together, because in my experience patients get better only if they develop deep positive feelings for their therapists. I also don’t think that you can grow and change unless you feel that you have some impact on the person who is treating you. The critical question is this: Do you feel that your therapist is curious to find out who you are and what you, not some generic “PTSD patient,” need? Are you just a list of symptoms on some diagnostic questionnaire, or does your therapist take the time to find out why you do what you do and think what you think? Therapy is a collaborative process—a mutual exploration of your self. Patients who have been brutalized by their caregivers as children often do not feel safe with anyone. I often ask my patients if they can think of any person they felt safe with while they were growing up. Many of them hold tight to the memory of that one teacher, neighbor, shopkeeper, coach, or minister who showed that he or she cared, and that memory is often the seed of learning to reengage. We are a hopeful species. Working with trauma is as much about remembering how we survived as it is about what is broken. I also ask my patients to imagine what they were like as newborns—whether they were lovable and filled with spunk. All of them believe they were and have some image of what they must have been like before they were hurt. Some people don’t remember anybody they felt safe with. For them, engaging with horses or dogs may be much safer than dealing with human beings. This principle is currently being applied in many therapeutic settings to great effect, including in jails, residential treatment programs, and veterans’ rehabilitation. Jennifer, a member of the first graduating class of the Van der Kolk Center,23 who had come to the program as an out-of-control, mute fourteen-year-old, said during her graduation ceremony that having been entrusted with the responsibility of caring for a horse was the critical first step for her. Her growing bond with her horse helped her feel safe enough to begin to relate to the staff of the center and then to focus on her classes, take her SATs, and be accepted to college.24 (p. 213-215) van der Kolk, B. (2014). The body keeps the score: Brain, mind, and body in the healing of trauma. Penguin.
Danske Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 Some people don’t remember anybody they felt safe with. For them, engaging with horses or dogs may be much safer than dealing with human beings. This principle is currently being applied in many therapeutic settings to great effect, including in jails, residential treatment programs, and veterans’ rehabilitation. Jennifer, a member of the first graduating class of the Van der Kolk Center,23 who had come to the program as an out-of-control, mute fourteen-year-old, said during her graduation ceremony that having been entrusted with the responsibility of caring for a horse was the critical first step for her. Her growing bond with her horse helped her feel safe enough to begin to relate to the staff of the center and then to focus on her classes, take her SATs, and be accepted to college.24 (p. 213-215) van der Kolk, B. (2014). The body keeps the score: Brain, mind, and body in the healing of trauma. Penguin. The fact that people reach adulthood having only bonded with fucking ANIMALS fills me with such rage.
The Invisible Gorilla Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 The fact that people reach adulthood having only bonded with fucking ANIMALS fills me with such rage. You reminded me of this: https://youtu.be/ERP4hI7c7NE?t=36 1
Alin Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 Thank you for these great answers they help enormously. I have one more question. Should I ask these questions on the phone, before meeting the therapist and then determine if he's a fit, or ask during the session? I suggest preparing a bunch of questions for the interview and paying close attention to how you feel when they respond. Here are a few questions that I asked: How do you feel about the prospect of me vomiting up a lot of grief and anxiety all at once in the conversation? Is there a place for breaking contact with family members, esp. parents? Have you had much success counseling people with depression and anxiety? How do you determine success? etc. If they don't agree with breaking with abusive parents, or acknowledge that this is where our issues stem from, should I stop the conversation right there or go on?
Kevin Beal Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 Thank you for these great answers they help enormously. I have one more question. Should I ask these questions on the phone, before meeting the therapist and then determine if he's a fit, or ask during the session? If they don't agree with breaking with abusive parents, or acknowledge that this is where our issues stem from, should I stop the conversation right there or go on? Great questions! I would ask on the phone if they will let you (they may not want to go into too much detail before meeting), but sooner the better, I think. Unless it's a simple factual matter, such as the fact that childhood has behavioral effects on adulthood, then I wouldn't be listening for the "right" answer. Whether or not you should break from your parents – for example – is a complicated matter, and the therapist is not likely to say one way or the other for certain; at least not without a lot of knowledge about your history first. You should listen to your gut. The truth is often messy and requires a lot of context in order to give meaningful answers. When I did my first trial session, I didn't know what to make of my therapist's answers to my questions, but it was clear that she had given these things a lot of thought, and it piqued my curiosity. I was skeptical, but also very interested in exploring it more. It ended up being a highly transformative and enjoyable therapeutic relationship. That's what I think anyway. Other people may have found it helpful to approach it differently. 1
Alin Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 Great questions! I would ask on the phone if they will let you (they may not want to go into too much detail before meeting), but sooner the better, I think. Unless it's a simple factual matter, such as the fact that childhood has behavioral effects on adulthood, then I wouldn't be listening for the "right" answer. Whether or not you should break from your parents – for example – is a complicated matter, and the therapist is not likely to say one way or the other for certain; at least not without a lot of knowledge about your history first. You should listen to your gut. The truth is often messy and requires a lot of context in order to give meaningful answers. When I did my first trial session, I didn't know what to make of my therapist's answers to my questions, but it was clear that she had given these things a lot of thought, and it piqued my curiosity. I was skeptical, but also very interested in exploring it more. It ended up being a highly transformative and enjoyable therapeutic relationship. That's what I think anyway. Other people may have found it helpful to approach it differently. I see, thanks. A lot of them have websites, so I'm checking there first. You don't have to dig too much apparently, some of them tell you upfront. Look at this post I have found on a "therapist" website: "One day you will understand your parents. You will actually accept the injustice inherent in a parent-child relationship. Whether they offered too much or too little, nothing is enough for life in itself is not enough. Through the eyes of maturity you will understand that everyone is the depositary of their own past, that parents themselves are the result of what happened to them, that paren'ting wasn't a science as it is today, that it's nobody's fault but at the same time everyone's fault, that the past cannot be changed and that forgiveness is inevitable." Next.
Kevin Beal Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 "One day you will understand your parents. You will actually accept the injustice inherent in a parent-child relationship. Whether they offered too much or too little, nothing is enough for life in itself is not enough. Through the eyes of maturity you will understand that everyone is the depositary of their own past, that parents themselves are the result of what happened to them, that paren'ting wasn't a science as it is today, that it's nobody's fault but at the same time everyone's fault, that the past cannot be changed and that forgiveness is inevitable." Eewwww!! I sometimes forget how bad some therapists are. I don't even know where to begin... Forgiveness is inevitable; resistance is futile; you will assimilate! 2
Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit Posted June 3, 2016 Posted June 3, 2016 A therapist I know (who is also an FDR fan, so coming from a like-minded perspective), has a blog post about choosing a good therapist, which you might find useful: https://philosophicaltherapist.com/2016/06/03/five-things-to-consider-when-choosing-a-therapist/
cherapple Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 Here's my contribution to this topic. Published on www.selfknowledgedaily.com How to Find a Good Therapist The Search for Honesty, Kindness and Other Important Traits When you begin the work of self-growth, you won’t be in the best position to recognize helpful people. That’s why you need a therapist to begin with — to improve your ability to relate to yourself and others, and to grow life skills. As the Minimalists like to say: “You can’t change the people around you, but you can change the people around you.” One of the most important people you can choose to bring around you is your therapist. A problem may arise, however, if (for example) you had to adapt to your childhood by manipulating your parents to get your needs met. If your parents didn’t allow you to express your needs openly and honestly, but instead manipulated you to suppress yourself for their convenience, you’ll have a hard time recognizing manipulative habits in others, including in a therapist. In fact, you’ll actually be more likely to go toward such people because you’ve learned competence in dealing with them, and like everyone, you want to be competent. And you want to be competent in finding someone who will help you grow more competent! The Catch-22 How do you break out of this catch-22? You’ll be at least partially blind to the maladaptive traits you most need to see. You’ll be unconscious of them in yourself, you’ll be unconscious of them in friends, lovers, and people you choose to work with, and you’ll likely be blind to them in potential therapists. This can be scary. Therapy and self-growth can throw our whole world into question. How do we learn to stop bringing the wrong types people around us? What if we have already surrounded ourselves with the “wrong” people? What do you do when the person in question is a therapist with years of experience, a formal education, and authoritative letters behind his or her name? Can you trust yourself to decide which therapist to hire? “Get back to your simple lived experience. … When you have that level of perspective, that level of sinking into the base evidence of your senses and what you’ve actually lived through in life, it’s … like you’re sailing through fog and that’s a very powerful thing.” — Stefan Molyneux Telling Points In my early experiences of therapy, I felt a lot anger, fear, and sadness during sessions and I was either terrible at expressing myself — because I so rarely had the opportunity — or I pretended I didn’t feel anything. Yet this habit of self-suppression was one of the things I most wanted to overcome. Many of us have been forbidden to feel anger or express it as children, so this can be a major telling point with therapists. How do they handle anger? How will they handle it when you cry? Are they curious about difficult feelings, do they discuss feelings in accepting ways, or do they reject, deny, ignore, and suppress — while denying their own avoidant behavior? A therapist’s reaction to your genuinely difficult feelings will tell how much self-work have they done, how well they handle their own emotions, how aware of themselves they are, and how much self-knowledge they’ve achieved. If you carry large amounts of grief, anger, and even rage at having to suppress yourself in order to earn “love” as a child, you need a therapist who knows better than you both how to express difficult feelings and how to be curious about them. Most of all, you need a therapist who will sit calmly with discomfort — his and yours. You want one who will express himself and meet his own needs assertively. You want one who will interact with you in a kind, open, positive, and honest way, so you can learn those same skills. The Therapist’s Job The therapist you hire takes on the job of substitute parent, providing an example of treating you well. Your goal with therapy is to learn to treat yourself well, in the ways your parents either failed or chose not to. Regardless of the reasons your parents might give for their harmful actions, even while many therapists say otherwise, therapy is not the time to “forgive.” It’s your parents’ responsibility to earn your forgiveness. It’s up to them whether they try. Your responsibility to yourself lies in handing their responsibility back to them so you no longer have to carry what doesn’t belong to you. Therapy is the time to understand and accept the ways in which your parents harmed your ability to care for yourself, so you can grow in the areas where they stopped you from growing. A good therapist approaches you from the position of experience as an adult who has grown beyond their own parents (whatever that means for them) and shows you how to re-parent yourself in three areas of need: emotional, mental, and physical. No therapist is strong in all three areas. They may be strong in empathy, but weak in philosophy and clear mental thinking. They may ignore physical presentations of trauma and only approach you mentally. They may spend your sessions pulling the authority card and giving advice. They may even lack curiosity about your feelings and actively disregard your needs. —"Are you for real?" At first, the worst therapists may be difficult to avoid, if they treat you poorly in ways you’re used to. This happens all too often! But it isn’t necessarily a bad thing because you are free to learn from the experience and—as opposed to when you were a child — fire the jerk, and keep looking. How to Find Good People More Quickly You may not choose well the first time. The good news is that you have philosophy to help you find the better therapists. I went from therapist to therapist with little progress throughout my adult life. The experiences were often so disappointing that eventually I refused to see a therapist for a period of ten years, resolving that I could be kinder to myself than trained professionals could. Since incorporating philosophy into my self-growth tools, I’ve worked with six different counselors, therapists and coaches and I finally gained traction. With the last two, I’ve experienced 100% win-win interactions. Philosophy helped me begin to learn what to look for, to have the courage to say “no” to people who didn’t meet my needs, and to eventually find confidence in saying “yes.” Your goal is to find a therapist who, when you think of working with them, you think, “Hell yeah!” In the words of Derek Sivers: “If it isn’t a hell yeah, it’s a no.” As long as I kept discounting my own experiences and trusting everyone else over myself, I couldn’t achieve a “hell yeah” in just about any area of my life. I lived to please everyone but myself. Only you can know when you’ve found your “hell yeah” therapist. A Few Tips Before you schedule your first session, ask for a free 30 minutes of the therapist’s time in a phone call. Hire them only when you observe the following—or your version of this list: They say “yes” to an introductory phone call. They show genuine curiosity and ask you empathetic questions about what you’re looking for. They are open about their own life-long process toward self-growth. The best therapists will share rock-bottom moments from their own life. They answer with openness to questions about their childhood and their past and present relationships with their parents. It may be terrifying to ask such personal questions, but remember that you are paying them. You can ask anything! The worst they can do is become defensive or say they don’t want to answer, and this may give you exactly the type of information you’re looking for. Their level of openness regarding their own childhood may be the most telling in how valuable they will be to your growth. How much assertiveness do they display in expressing their own needs in the therapeutic relationship? How do they handle any timing issues in the call? How do they bring up issues of scheduling and payment? Are they friendly and forthcoming about what they expect from you, if you hire them? Do they ask directly what you’d like from them? Finally, do they have an online presence? Google them. Look on the internet for evidence of their level of integrity. This final tip has perhaps helped me the most. Not every therapist will have, nor want, an online presence, but if they are confident about their abilities, in this day and age, I believe having some kind of online identity is a must. It shows they have more to offer than just their credentials. The most recent therapist and coach with whom I’ve worked have been the ones I’ve had the most fulfilling relationships with. I hired them because they generously and publicly displayed their capacity for a positive relationship with themselves. Finally, you want to hire a person who demonstrates success in both accepting and transcending their own worst moments of life. Their empathy level for themselves is a good indication of how well they will welcome you and invite the true you. The person who has successfully gone where you want to go is the one who will go there with you. 1
Frederik Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 I found the following video enormously helpful. It includes answering the question of how to find a great therapist, but also a ton of other aspects that I find important when it comes to psychotherapy. 1
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