Is (some) karate centered self defense useless?

[A4E]

I've watched some karate centered self defense videos on youtube, and thought that it was effective advice, but now I came across this lady who says, and shows that they are useless. I will include at least one karate video below. What do you think? And do you have better advice or links? I just want to be able to defend myself adequately. Also important for the ladies in these times.

 

 

 

[shirgall]

As with other real-world endeavors, the empirical realists will be more effective than the romantic idealists.

[dsayers]

I took a little Tae Kwon Do when I was younger. I appreciated learning about things such as center of gravity and the weak points of the human body. That said, prevention goes a LOT farther than cure. Much later in life, just the act of carrying a gun altered my manner of walk and talk that made it clear to any would be assailant that I will NOT be their victim. Situational awareness and self-knowledge are the most important aspects of self-defense.

[ValueOfBrevity]

When she shows examples of popular techniques failing to stop the attack, she does the techniques incorrectly.

Ex 1: Never punch someone in the pectoral (chest muscle) like this woman. You are supposed to strike the solar plexus to cause a diaphragm spasm (loss of deep breath).

Ex 2: If someone is choking you, placing your arm between theirs like a lever, grab your other hand, and pry. The weakest part of the grip is between the thumb and index finger; you should exploit that. My question to the woman is: If a man is choking you, why would he let strike him in the face?

If you understand body mechanics, karate techniques will make sense. If you don't, they will seem superfluous. 

As an aside: all martial arts are derivative. Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do celebrates this. He values practically over tradition.

 

[Guest Gee]

Red belt black tag in Tae Kwon Do, basically black belt would of meant waiting to long.

It is all totally fucking useless. 

If you are a man and for some reason you need to know this stuff, learn to box.

If you are a woman this shit is dangerous for you because you'll think that you have some ability to defend yourself and you don't and you should of been running and screaming fire as loud as you can. Worst case scenario is you take your long nails and gouge the eyes THEN run screaming fire.

[Mister Mister]

  Traditional martial arts don't offer that much useful stuff, for several reasons.  One, is that many of the martial arts like kung fu or aikido are more mystical, and haven't tested themselves empirically against resistance, through sparring and competition.
  The styles like karate or tae kwon do that have developed through competition, are still based on fixed rules, which don't apply in a real situation.  Even in mixed martial arts, many of the most effective techniques are illegal - biting, eye gouging, shots to the groin, small joint manipulation, and so on.  I believe Krav Maga teaches many of these things.

  If you do want to go with a martial art, my understanding is that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is probably the best, as it deals with the worst case scenario of being on your back with someone on top of you.

  Otherwise, the most important thing is threat recognition and avoidance of potentially dangerous people or situations, and arming yourself.  If you do get into a situation where you feel your life is threatened, act decisively and explosively, not to punish or hurt your attacker, but to create an opening to get away and get help.

[rosencrantz]

I just want to be able to defend myself adequately.

 

There are opportunity costs to achieve that. The time you spend practicing martial arts can't be used for something else. If you have to fight against somebody who has no martial arts background, no knive, and no gun, a blue belt in Judo or Jiu Jitsu is probably more than enough. Grapplers can dictate the fight on their conditions. If there is more than one guy, if your opponent has a knive or if you feel panic RUUUUUUNNNNN and SCREEEEAAAAAM. The most effective martial arts is not to get involved in fights and to avoid dangerous situations.

[Guest Gee]

I just recalled something, your in Sweden right? Which might mean this isn't a hobby but a very real possibility.

 

Some advice on violence my father gave to me (ACE 7 so you know its the good stuff).

 

Grappling/Wrestling > Boxing > Everything else

 

But if you get into a fight chances are its not going to be 1 vs 1 so Grappling/Wrestling means going to the floor which means this guys mates are going to kicked you in the head. If you end up on the floor, you are going hospital if you are lucky.

 

So Grappling/Wrestling is off the cards and......

 

Boxxing > Everything else

 

Can't really stress this enough. If I still was practicing Tae Kwan Do or any kick boxxing and I had to fight a boxxer, I would run away and I'm ~6"2 and 115kg (me running). He's going to land several punches on my face before I even know whats happening and its game over already.

 

So learn to box.

 

So you in Sweden, and your in a fight. Its not going to be 1 vs 1, its going to be 5 vs 1. The goal is not to win vs 5, it is to win totally vs 1 and stun the other 4 long enough to get away.

 

There will, even in a group, be one guy leading this whole thing, this is the guy you need to really hurt. Before he can give the rest of his crew the confidence to pile in your going to need to make him bleed and scream. The best way to do this is to land a blow or two, grab is hair or his shirt, pull him close and then bite off part of his face. You can take his ear, nose or best of all is his eye brow. The eyebrow is best because there will be blood streaming into his eyes and he can't fight effectively any more.

So then the guy leading will be on the stumbling around screaming pain with blood running down his face. If he's not on the floor then beat him until he is but the second he's on the floor don't touch him. The remaining 4 will be stunned and you can get away.

 

(pro tip. the second you can gouge the eyes, you gouge the eyes!)

 

The reason you don't touch him on the floor is because if you do, you may provoke the 4 into helping him out and it'll make your defense in law much more tenuous (because he is objectively no longer a threat).

 

On the subject of law you need to know what to do when the police eventually turn up. That means looking into the law in your country. Also, do not talk to the police, let them arrest you, let them put you in a holding cell and do not say anything until you have a lawyer or soliciter present.

 

That said when you do have to say something your only going to say the following in response to every and any question;

 

I had an honest held belief that my life was in danger (and the life of my partner) and I used such force as was objectively and subjectively reasonable to end the threat to my life.

 

Really sorry your in a position where you feel the need to know this sort of thing bro.

 

p.s.

Have had someone threaten to stab me, followed above advice, ended up arrested (he was a mess and ended up in hospital) followed all above advice, everything was fine (but I did lose a set of clothes because they were kept as evidence).

 

Have had some break into my home whilst my girlfriend and I were asleep, followed above advice (he was a reaaaal mess, ended up in hospital) everything was fine.

 

*edit: just realised it looks like I'm saying I've had to bite face, never had to thank god! Also never ever started a fight or bullied, just those 2 times.

[ValueOfBrevity]

I'm just going to restate this because it is important:

Take a mixed class which values utility over tradition.
Martial arts are not mystical, nor are they useless.
They are traditional, which means valuing classic systems over practicality (another thing Bruce Lee warns against [be formless]).

 

 

Boxxing > Everything else
 

 

Boxing is an important martial art to learn, but you shouldn't see particular forms of fighting as 100% superior. Every strike and hold has a counter. Also, boxing is susceptible to inside fighting forms (grappling being one of them) since striking requires rotation and distance to build momentum. 

 

 

The most effective martial arts is not to get involved in fights and to avoid dangerous situations.

 

 

[A4E]

Thank you very much.

 

I am a native Norwegian. Here are the reasons I want to be able to defend myself:

 

-Aggressive people are going into my country expecting luxury lives. Those who are declined asylum will very often just vanish before they can be deported, which means no one knows where they are.

 

-Life threatening violence from a non native Norwegian against a native Norwegian was recorded on a cellphone and broadcast on youtube in a city close to me. (sentence corrected by ninja SJWs)

 

-Pepper spray is illegal to have and import.

 

-I walk outside at night around 3 times weekly.

[EclecticIdealist]

There are a number of innocuous items you might regularly take on your walks. Pepper spray may be illegal where you are, but a squirt bottle of pepper sauce likely isn't.  A knife or sword may be illegal, but a walking stick or cane with metal spikes for added traction won't get a second look. One must learn to think as the Ninja's of Japan did... most of the time, they looked like the farmers they were, but they utilized farming implements as their weapons, and they learned how to escape and evade, how to hide, run, jump, and climb (think parkour). Avoiding a fight is best, but if one must fight, do not be kind or gentle; be vicious and decisive. Seek to permanently maim or if necessary, kill as quickly and efficiently as possible. This means going after the weakest, most vulnerable targets of opportunity first, especially those which are likely to end a fight, such as the eyes, ears, nose, fingers, knees, elbows, throat, and genitals.

[DCLugi]

Bruce Lee invested his whole life in effective self defense and still carried a gun.

[A4E]

a squirt bottle of pepper sauce likely isn't.  A knife or sword may be illegal, but a walking stick or cane with metal spikes for added traction won't get a second look.

Wow, my mind was blown. Thanks. But I am thinking that a squirt bottle would be cumbersome to carry to make it available at all times. Unless there is some small effective squirt bottle that I don't know about. Like something I can have in my pocket.

 

Also the walking stick is interesting. You have inspired me to be creative though.

[shirgall]

Also the walking stick is interesting. You have inspired me to be creative though.

 

http://www.canemasters.com/

[EclecticIdealist]

Wow, my mind was blown. Thanks. But I am thinking that a squirt bottle would be cumbersome to carry to make it available at all times. Unless there is some small effective squirt bottle that I don't know about. Like something I can have in my pocket.

 

Also the walking stick is interesting. You have inspired me to be creative though.

Think "travel size" as you might use for hand soap or shampoo that you take with you in your luggage, or perhaps the smallest condiment squeeze bottle for mustard, ketchup, honey or the like, preferably one with a cap that will pop off if you squeeze hard enough, so it can be operated one handed.  make sure to practice with it a few times so you know the amount of pressure it will take, how many loads you can count on, the range, and so on.

[ValueOfBrevity]

http://www.canemasters.com/

Definitely not devaluing stick fighting, but that website looks like a bad infomercial. 

[ObserveandReport]

The only thing I have to add is, if they have a weapon and your arms are inferior, give up your possessions if you think that will satisfy them. If they have a knife, strongly consider running. If you are armed and well trained and they are not, rejoice you have the upper hand!

[ValueOfBrevity]

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[Des]

If cycling uphill, hop off, pick it up, and perform fly-swatting motion while screaming.

I think my would-be cycle-jacker was either high or jonesing, so this may not work as well on all attackers.

Cycling downhill, crash head-on (I simply put out the heel of my hand to the front of his face, but I have been cycling from age 9 to my present 6th decade of life, so some cyclists may have difficulty with doing that).

On a busy city street, karate-kick the innocent person in front of you (or his vending-stall). Does not conform to NAP, but it beats dying, and he/she is going to make the noise you can't make when in a chokehold.

Noise is important. My scream is inherently scary, and it gets attention.

Oh, and that man on the busy city street who makes the faux-sympathetic enquiry as to whether the muggers "got everything" - he's also a predator, restart the screaming.

[utopian]

I used to do cage fighting, and we sometimes had karate people come train with us. It was apparent to everyone that as soon as any grappling was involved, the karate people were at a loss. What they taught was simply too one dimensional and untested. Not to say that striking is ineffective. Anyone who thinks so needs to go watch the video of Holly Holm beating Rhonda Rousey, a renown jiu-jitsu blackbelt. Holly does this thing that does not really have a name yet, but I refer to it as a "running striker" which could be the only real effective martial art against more than one person. Still, everyone is going to make a mistake and end up on the ground some time, and you have to know how to recover from that, so jiu-jitsu is the place to start. But if you don't believe me, take it from a former seal;

 

[rosencrantz]

Holly does this thing that does not really have a name yet, but I refer to it as a "running striker" which could be the only real effective martial art against more than one person.

 

Holmes is a classical counter puncher.

[Jakethehuman]

I think everyone should know how to throw a punch