auryn0151 Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 Stef talks a lot about how daycare is bad, and in many ways I agree: no one will care more about your kid's development than a parent, the kid gets far more 1 on 1 attention at home, lowest common denominator, minimum wage workers in daycare, etc. However, as Stef constantly reminds us, he is an empiricist. Does he (or anyone else) have actual evidence (studies) that demonstrate that the desired outcome of raising healthy children without emotional issues cannot be achieved by putting a kid in daycare and then providing great support when the kid is not in daycare. I get a lot of push-back from people saying you don't need to spend 24/7 with a baby/infant/toddler to teach them values, empathy, etc. Emotionally I push back against that, but I shouldn't do that unless the facts support it. Thanks for your help!
Matthew Ed Moran Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 "I get a lot of push-back from people saying you don't need to spend 24/7 with a baby/infant/toddler to teach them values, empathy, etc." Not spending time with your baby is not equivalent to putting your baby around 20 or more strangers for 6 hours a day without their parents. What empathy is being displayed by the parents, if they only specifically put their children in this situation and never voluntary put themselves in a room with 20 strangers without getting paid for it? This is empiricism. Studies are great, but so are arguments based on reason and evidence, such as the factors you already brought up in your post. A well done study can get a point across very quickly, but citing a study isn't the only way to be empirical. Just saying! This is just a suggestion if you were open to any sort of ideas. You could even ask them if their child has ever expressed a desire not to be at daycare but had to go; or had to stay when wanted to go home. If they answer the question honestly and it is "yes," then they are clearly admitting they do not value empathy towards children, at least when it's happening. This might not be relevant if it's 1 day a week in a great daycare, compared to 4 or 5 in an average daycare, but the general tendency to put children in daycare is the extent empathy is not being displayed for the child, and where it is actually being harmed and creating feelings of insecurity around empathizing. You know, they did set up a false dichotomy in what I initially quoted (not spending time with your baby = daycare), so that is something to at least be aware of. If you're attempting to argue against a false premise, that is not going to work no matter how many studies you have. Good luck! 2
auryn0151 Posted May 1, 2016 Author Posted May 1, 2016 Thank you all for your responses. I'll dig into those materials Michael! 1
Teiid Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 "I get a lot of push-back from people saying you don't need to spend 24/7 with a baby/infant/toddler to teach them values, empathy, etc." Not spending time with your baby is not equivalent to putting your baby around 20 or more strangers for 6 hours a day without their parents. What empathy is being displayed by the parents, if they only specifically put their children in this situation and never voluntary put themselves in a room with 20 strangers without getting paid for it? This is empiricism. Studies are great, but so are arguments based on reason and evidence, such as the factors you already brought up in your post. A well done study can get a point across very quickly, but citing a study isn't the only way to be empirical. Just saying! This is just a suggestion if you were open to any sort of ideas. You could even ask them if their child has ever expressed a desire not to be at daycare but had to go; or had to stay when wanted to go home. If they answer the question honestly and it is "yes," then they are clearly admitting they do not value empathy towards children, at least when it's happening. This might not be relevant if it's 1 day a week in a great daycare, compared to 4 or 5 in an average daycare, but the general tendency to put children in daycare is the extent empathy is not being displayed for the child, and where it is actually being harmed and creating feelings of insecurity around empathizing. You know, they did set up a false dichotomy in what I initially quoted (not spending time with your baby = daycare), so that is something to at least be aware of. If you're attempting to argue against a false premise, that is not going to work no matter how many studies you have. Good luck! Hi Matthew, great response. Thank you for your input. A little bit of constructive criticism here: Remove "just" from your vocabulary. It weakens your arguments and provides you with a weasel way out. Your arguments are strong, state them boldly. 1
saspatz Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 Relevant to this conversation - I recently posted a request for input because I am in the process of setting up a weekend daycare for no more than three children. I really want constructive ideas for making this as positive as possible.
violet Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 I think it's worth looking at studies about attachment disorders. I think the negative aspects of daycare can be directly associated with this part of human psychology. Attachment is essential for human beings because they are so vulnerable and helpless for a such a long time in the early years. Reactive attachment disorder is common in severely neglected children, such as those placed in orphanages. Such children didn't have trusting and loving relationships with caregivers in their life while they were young. It can cause lifelong emotional dysfunction, limited ability to form loving bonds as an adult, and many other serious problems. How is leaving your child in daycare any different than leaving them in an orphanage? It's a similar experience in my estimation. It's just about degree of neglect.
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