Thoughts on the European Union?

[Cruiser]

Fellow Anarcho capitalists, what are your thoughts on the European Union?

 

The European Union started off as a economic union between western countries, freedom of movement of goods, people, capitals and services. Now they've become a political union whose goals are to continue expending the EU, to create a common EU army and identity. Eventually to become a federalized Europe or a super state.

 

[RichardY]

A multitude of rulers is not a good thing let there be one ruler, one king (Or no king). quote from Aristotle (heard it on Civ4, PC Game).

 

If countries are to stay in Europe then why have national parliaments? Why not allow provinces or counties in Europe the right to breakaway in theory. 

[Hecatonchire]

Same reason we have state legislatures and courts in America.

 

A multitude of rulers is not a good thing let there be one ruler, one king (Or no king). quote from Aristotle (heard it on Civ4, PC Game).

 

If countries are to stay in Europe then why have national parliaments? Why not allow provinces or counties in Europe the right to breakaway in theory. 

[RichardY]

Same reason we have state legislatures and courts in America.

 

Which I think is a better legal system (Common Law and Equity Law) in terms of being less evil and more materially productive less parasitic than European Napoleonic or Germanic Civil Law.

[rosencrantz]

Which I think is a better legal system (Common Law and Equity Law) in terms of being less evil and more materially productive less parasitic than European Napoleonic or Germanic Civil Law.

 

Why?

[dsayers]

being less evil

Can you define evil? I see it as being digital (the deliberate violation of property rights), so I don't think the phrase "less evil" makes sense.

 

The European Union started off as a economic union between western countries, freedom of movement of goods, people, capitals and services.

I don't think this is true. Freedom doesn't involve enumeration. The enumeration is the forceful infringement of freedom. You and I are free to chat here. We don't have to form something called the FDR Union in order to do this.

[RichardY]

Can you define evil? I see it as being digital (the deliberate violation of property rights), so I don't think the phrase "less evil" makes sense.

 

Evil(digital) as the deliberate violation of Property Rights, established under the homesteading principle. "less evil" yes I agree it doesn't make sense, I will instead say a lesser degree of evil or the potential for a lesser degree of evil.

 

Common Law allowing the establishment of precedents by a jury, the population is more likely to get what they accept as just. Equity Law removing more legal power from the Head of State, therefore making it harder for the Head of State to be an Absolute Monarch or declare themselves as Dictator under Emergency Powers.

[Mister Mister]

Yes I don't know that much about it, but I assume it was always about greater, more consolidated, centralized power, particular over banking and currency, and the breakdown of national borders.

[Guest Gee]

Put your tinfoil hats on lads. EU is CIA op.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/1356047/Euro-federalists-financed-by-US-spy-chiefs.html

[Libertus]

As a principle anarcho-capitalist, who can also think like a pragmatist, I'd say, the more centralized government power becomes, the worse it gets for the people in practice, and the further removed from individual liberties the situation becomes.

 

individual -> groups -> districts -> cities -> states -> countries -> EU -> world government

[aviet]

It is possible that the EU has run its course. In response to the British referendum on continued membership, several other countries have come forward to say they want to renegotiate their membership deal, i.e. repatriate powers. It is also looking increasingly likely that other nations will have a membership referendum in the next few years. Particularly if Britain leaves.

For the last two decades in particular, the EU has worked, by forcing out agendas created by unelected bureaucrats. Many people felt that resistance to the EU was largely hopeless during that time. But now its like the curtain has come down and the is a growing realisation that business as in usual in Brussels is not possible.

As a result of the EU's widely unpopular and failed policies, there is a growing rise of nationalism and epic collapse of the left that have cheerleaded these failed policies in the nation states. See: https://i.imgsafe.org/292d718.png

In response to the backlash against its diktats, the EU has sought to do what it has always done: use uncertainty to increase its power. It now wants to add over 100 new citizens from countries with huge reported crime rates and low development and says it will fine Eastern European member states 250,000 EUR for each 'refugee' they refuse to take.

The level to which the bureaucrats have pushed Eastern Europe away in one year is astounding.

My take on one of the issues:
 

Those who like to virtue signal by giving the thumbs up to unlimited immigration are woefully uninformed. Come to Eastern Europe and you will find that freedom of movement is held in as much disdain as it is in Britain. People wonder why they should fork out so much money to educate their children and teach them English, only for them to make a bee line for Western Europe, the US etc. at the earliest opportunity. The population of Bulgaria is decreasing at about 0.75% a year. Its approaching a 25% decline from its peak little more than 25 years ago. All throughout Southern and Eastern Europe, people talk of the brain drain as much as Brits talk about the ridiculous levels of uncontrolled immigration, which the government has now admitted they have no idea how much it is and was probably over 800,000 incomers last year. And those that want to complain on limiting immigration as an assault on the connected world, try visiting the many ghost villages and practically uninhabited villages in Bulgaria. In 2014 5% of people left Kosovo for Western Europe. When everyone in the region is allowed into the EU, expect double-digit percentage drops in nation's populations within a few years. This is not a connected world, but a disconnecting world, in which, soon, Western Europe will have to bail out the pension schemes of many countries because they have taken those who would have paid for them. And the idea that importing people from these countries into Western Europe to help pay for pensions is pure insanity. Other than having to bail out Eastern Europe's failed pensions. What is it going to be like in 2100, when the population of Britain is 100 million and still the pension schemes need more people to prop them up? 

 

The EU is a thoroughly irresponsible organisation that cares more for its completely undemocratic march to the United States of Europe than it does in building up its member states. Bulgaria is literally run by mafia. The country is completely rigged at the expense of its development, but the EU does not care so long its mafia is compliant with EU expansionism.

 

And that is just the argument from an eastern perspective. If you look at a recent large study of the IQs of British students, it found that the average IQ of native Brits is 102. If you take native Brits out of the equation, the average IQ drops 9 points to 93 - on par with Bulgaria. If you also take out Hindus, Sikhs and Chinese (who also have an average IQ of 102), the average IQ drops a full 10 points to 92. IQ studies have shown again and again that lower than average IQs in a society have much higher incidences of things that are bad, like crime, unemployment, divorce etc.

 

Continuing on IQ, the IQ of young Eastern Europeans is generally much higher than their parents as a result of better education, but if they (particularly the brightest) are continually siphoned off, the development of Eastern Europe will be crippled.

[Cuffy_Meigs]

The European Union started off as a economic union between western countries, freedom of movement of goods, people, capitals and services. Now they've become a political union whose goals are to continue expending the EU, to create a common EU army and identity. Eventually to become a federalized Europe or a super state.

 

This is often stated by opponents of the EU (of which I am one) however I believe if you read the founding treaty (Treaty of Rome) it is clear that there was never any intention to restrict the EEC (as it was called then) to be just an economic union. Even a glance down the table of contents screams political union.

[aviet]

A further thought. If you look at other unions in which people were forced together:

Yugoslavia
The Soviet Union
The Roman Empire
The Ottoman Empire
The Persian Empire

The British Empire

All of them failed. It took some of the more ancient ones considerably more time to fail due to the education-level and manner in which they were enforced. However, national identities were able to survive even after over 1,000 years of occupation. If anything, occupation seems to make national identity all the stronger, for obvious reasons.

[RichardY]

If anything, occupation seems to make national identity all the stronger, for obvious reasons.

 I'm not so sure, there's not many Cornish Speakers in England.

[aviet]

 I'm not so sure, there's not many Cornish Speakers in England.

I think this is a deviation from the norm and the United Kingdom would be something to learn from if you did want to create a union of disparate people - who don't speak the same language etc.

 

But if you look throughout Europe and the rest of the world, it is obvious forcing disparate people into a Union has generally ultimately been unsuccessful. When there was a common link like language between peoples, such as France, Spain, Germany and The Netherlands, it was easier to create a union.

[Guest Gee]

>Posts link to article citing evidence that the EU is a CIA meme.

 

>No responses.

 

Cool.

[RichardY]

>Posts link to article citing evidence that the EU is a CIA meme.

Probably is. Though it doesn't connect with me much on an emotional level, which I think is the challenge to changing things for the better. Might be why A-List football players and actors are paid so much and are effective when used for propaganda to a point.

[Libertus]

"What's an Ancap's stance on the EU?" and "how did the EU come to be?" are different, even if related, questions.