How do you know what you're passionate about?

[Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit]

How do you figure out what you're passionate about? How do you know what your purpose is in life?

 

Long story, short: I'm a people pleaser and I'm really good at convincing myself that what others want me to do is what I want to do. Inevitably, I end up burned out and feeling resentful or used.

 

I have no idea what I want to do with my life. Nothing sounds appealing or exciting. If I don't have someone else's passions or projects to latch onto, I just end up drifting and feeling depressed, which is where I'm at currently.

 

Has anyone else ever had this problem and overcome it? How did you do it?

[RichardY]

You could try travelling or backpacking, if nothing else it gives you a better perspective on things. I did some through a site called Workaway. What country do you live in?

[Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit]

I have traveled extensively for short term work assignments, holidays, and living abroad. I'm on my third expat experience, currently. While I enjoy travel to some degree, it's not something I really love, nor is it feasible for me to continue my globe trotting days anymore. I agree that it does give one perspective, though, and I have definitely learned a lot from it.

[Wuzzums]

Just answer this question, if you have "fuck you money", as in so much money you could retire and do anything you want, what would that be?

[dsayers]

How do you know what your purpose is in life?

Are you into mysticism? People don't have purposes in life.

 

Self-knowledge is what you're looking for. It will help you to understand what you feel and why and be honest about where you came from and how. Which empowers you to start making the changes, breaking free of manipulation and narrative, etc. Just know that it's not a quick fix by any means.

[EclecticIdealist]

How do you figure out what you're passionate about?

Try and many different things as you can possibly think of until you find something that really resonates with you. This might take awhile to discover. Think outside of the box about things you can try doing. Don't limit yourself to things you have done before or show a natural aptitude for.

 

How do you know what your purpose is in life?
You'll know when you discover what it is. It will be something that you can yourself enjoying doing for decades without getting tired or burned out.

 

Long story, short: I'm a people pleaser and I'm really good at convincing myself that what others want me to do is what I want to do. Inevitably, I end up burned out and feeling resentful or used.
Learn to "Just say no" when people ask you to do things. It's not your job to save people or their businesses, etc. It's your job to be the best you that you can be, and if that works for others, great. If not, their problem is not your problem.

 

I have no idea what I want to do with my life. Nothing sounds appealing or exciting. If I don't have someone else's passions or projects to latch onto, I just end up drifting and feeling depressed, which is where I'm at currently.
Depression comes from a number of different sources, but it sounds to me like you feel like you're wasting your life. It that's how you're feeling, you probably are. Pick something, pick anything that sounds the slightest bit interesting and do it. Don't commit to doing it for longer than a month. After a month, evaluate whether it truly bring you joy, or if it's just another learning experience. Move on quickly

 

Has anyone else ever had this problem and overcome it? How did you do it?

Pretty much as described above.

[Will Torbald]

I'm guilty of having similar issues, however, my insight is that there isn't a hidden desire or passion that you are unaware of. You just don't have it in you in the first place. The candle isn't lit to begin with, so you're not going to find the fire that way. You would have to focus on becoming enkindled first, and the rest of the details of what to do will come by themselves.

[bpala]

Despair

http://www.fdrpodcasts.com/#/1654/despair

[RichardY]

Long story, short: I'm a people pleaser and I'm really good at convincing myself that what others want me to do is what I want to do. Inevitably, I end up burned out and feeling resentful or used.

 

Except that you're not at convincing yourself, because you're asking the question.

 

One way of looking at things is the people you follow or work for have no purpose either. What they have and everyone has, is a Will and probably Worth and Value to varying extents.

 

I don't think there is a way to have purpose, because then you would not have freewill. What you can have is Worth and the only way you can have Worth is to know other people through friendship. You can have Value to Evil people or people with no ethics, but you can't have Worth to them.

 

I don't think everyone needs to have Worth to other people, but being social animals means that for no-one to have worth to you and visa versa leaves only a will to consume and an empty/lonely feeling, unless of course someone is a sociopath and just doesn't care less.  

 

What was it like working abroad?

[Thus_Spake_the_Nightspirit]

Thanks, everyone, for your replies.

 

-----------------------------

"Just answer this question, if you have "fuck you money", as in so much money you could retire and do anything you want, what would that be?"

 

Probably just go be a hermit somewhere. Or save/invest it. Or give it away to someone who needs it more than I do. I have no idea, really. I can't imagine I'd do anything really fun or meaningful or exciting with it.

 

Self-knowledge is what you're looking for. It will help you to understand what you feel and why and be honest about where you came from and how. Which empowers you to start making the changes, breaking free of manipulation and narrative, etc. Just know that it's not a quick fix by any means.

 

Yes, I've been working on that for a while, but I'm not really getting anywhere on this particular question.

 

Try and many different things as you can possibly think of until you find something that really resonates with you. This might take awhile to discover. Think outside of the box about things you can try doing. Don't limit yourself to things you have done before or show a natural aptitude for.
 

I have done this. I have tried so many different hobbies and activities over the years and nothing really resonates strongly with me. I've also tried many different jobs. My CV is a complete mess of hopping from one unrelated job to another. With hobbies, when I find something that seems like fun, I burn out on it in about 6 months or so and it suddenly seems like a drag. With jobs, I might stay at a job for maybe 3 or 4 years, max, usually much less, and then I move on to doing something I've never done before, rinse and repeat as I get bored of whatever it is I'm currently doing.

 

Learn to "Just say no" when people ask you to do things. It's not your job to save people or their businesses, etc. It's your job to be the best you that you can be, and if that works for others, great. If not, their problem is not your problem.
 

I'm getting better at this, but it's less an issue of not being able to say no and more an issue of, "Oh, this person has a cool idea and I have no ideas of my own, so I will just latch on to what they are doing and try to like it, too." Bonus points if I'm doing it because I want to be liked by the other person. There is very little that I've put any effort into that was my own idea made with my own interests in mind.

 

Depression comes from a number of different sources, but it sounds to me like you feel like you're wasting your life. It that's how you're feeling, you probably are. Pick something, pick anything that sounds the slightest bit interesting and do it. Don't commit to doing it for longer than a month. After a month, evaluate whether it truly bring you joy, or if it's just another learning experience. Move on quickly

 

Yup, this is why I've been constantly hopping from one thing to the next over the last decade. I feel like it is getting too late in my life now for me to still be trying to figure this out. A lot of opportunities are probably already lost to me and I'm worried I will miss the boat on the ones that still remain.

 

I'm guilty of having similar issues, however, my insight is that there isn't a hidden desire or passion that you are unaware of. You just don't have it in you in the first place. The candle isn't lit to begin with, so you're not going to find the fire that way. You would have to focus on becoming enkindled first, and the rest of the details of what to do will come by themselves. 

 

So how does one light that fire in themselves if it's not already there?

 

I pretty much agree with this and it has been my experience. My therapist started out by asking what gives me joy. This was nearly impossible for me to answer, and everything I came up with seemed ridiculous coming out of my mouth. 

 

I also have this problem. I can't think of any good answer to that question.

 

Except that you're not at convincing yourself, because you're asking the question.

 

I convince myself in the moment, usually because I'm just so eager to have some project or activity to latch onto, but then later I realise I don't really enjoy it at all. Initially, I'll convince myself that I do.

 

I don't think there is a way to have purpose, because then you would not have freewill. What you can have is Worth and the only way you can have Worth is to know other people through friendship. You can have Value to Evil people or people with no ethics, but you can't have Worth to them.

 

I don't think everyone needs to have Worth to other people, but being social animals means that for no-one to have worth to you and visa versa leaves only a will to consume and an empty/lonely feeling, unless of course someone is a sociopath and just doesn't care

 

That's an interesting way of putting it. I don't have many meaningful relationships in my life. The ones I do have seem impermanent at best. I think I usually do substitute value for worth, just because that sort of transactional exchange is a lot easier than making real friends (and seems to be the only kind of relationship most people are interested in, anyway), so going along with what they want and being excited about it seems like a good way to be accepted by them and enhance my value to them. But you're correct that it does leave an empty feeling in its wake.

 

What was it like working abroad?

 

It was interesting. I did a lot of different things and had a lot of unique experiences. It was also very stressful and lonely. I did not like being away from home so much of the time and the person I worked for was not very nice to me. I don't think I would want to do it again, even under better circumstances.

[dsayers]

Yes, I've been working on that for a while, but I'm not really getting anywhere on this particular question.

This doesn't surprise me. If my question was "where can I find a unicorn," no amount of wealth, self-knowledge, or advice from others would assist me.

[Jot]

This doesn't surprise me. If my question was "where can I find a unicorn," no amount of wealth, self-knowledge, or advice from others would assist me.

 

Although I don't ever remember Stefan referring to career/job /a way of giving value and receive money for it  as "life purpose" I think he gets close to this when he is saying, I might be paraphrasing but I doubt it, "everyone is good at something"...frankly this phrase never hit me as something that comes after some long philosophical inquiry into this problem but since Stefan does not ever tend to say random things I think there is something about this that I am not seeing.

 

I think another way he often puts it is "a talent for something".

 

What I have noticed however is that he always referred to this "gift", "talent" as something that is done for the world, for helping others. 

[youzer]

Sounds like you're not being challenged enough.

Go study to be a physician.

[dsayers]

Although I don't ever remember Stefan referring to career/job /a way of giving value and receive money for it  as "life purpose" I think he gets close to this when he is saying, I might be paraphrasing but I doubt it, "everyone is good at something"...frankly this phrase never hit me as something that comes after some long philosophical inquiry into this problem but since Stefan does not ever tend to say random things I think there is something about this that I am not seeing.

 

I think another way he often puts it is "a talent for something".

 

What I have noticed however is that he always referred to this "gift", "talent" as something that is done for the world, for helping others. 

Not that I agree that "Stef sez" is sufficient, but Stef's take on "talent" (which I agree with) is that it's a bullshit word inflicted by abusers to diminish one's hard work. Anything we are good at, we are only as good at it as we are because of the practice we've put into it. Besides, people are good at things they are not passionate about and passionate about things they are not yet good at. None of which lends credence to the idea that people have "a purpose in life," which is my primary investment in this topic.

[Jot]

Not that I agree that "Stef sez" is sufficient, but Stef's take on "talent" (which I agree with) is that it's a bullshit word inflicted by abusers to diminish one's hard work. Anything we are good at, we are only as good at it as we are because of the practice we've put into it. Besides, people are good at things they are not passionate about and passionate about things they are not yet good at. None of which lends credence to the idea that people have "a purpose in life," which is my primary investment in this topic.

 

I find your arguments against "life purpose" as something you were "meant" to be good at without flaw.

 

My question is, how would you call what Stefan chose to do with his life? At one point he was an entrepreneur....some people are entrepreneurs all their lives and seem that this is what they are more passionate and gives them most happiness, however this was not the case for Stefan, for him this was something that was not making him feel "complete"...is this just the result of him being an even better philosopher than entrepreneur?  What is that something about being a podcast philosopher that gives him the most happiness? And for other people it wouldn't? 

[AndrewV]

Some people are just lucky enough to run across it early in life (childhood) other have to put for a concerted effort to figure it out after. And even so finding it early does not mean your environment will assist in development.  I joined the army to get away from my family and later realized I drew and played with Legos cause I like Sculpture ,Architecture, Animation and Painting. I would do anything to get those five years back but alas no dice. I guess what i'm trying to say is if you don't look you wont find it and the main thing is i would have never found I love these things if I had millions of dollars. Money doesn't grant self knowledge and we all can be lazy and miss the mark.    

[Eh Steve]

Outside the box thought:  I'd make sure you aren't emotionally resistant to passion.  Passion can lead to a lot of social criticisms and ostracism etc. etc. so it could be you may have an emotional block around it.  Being nipped at by cynical or mean people can really damage passion, particularly if you're a people pleaser.

 

So I'd almost ask the question instead "What does passion feel like?"  "What does enthusiasm and commitment feel like"?  I think to me passion can be very different from "interested".  I'm much more familiar with interested but it feels much more sorta compulsive and not really that fulfilling from what I would expect passion to mean.  I'm pretty unfamiliar with passion, I think the closest I come to that is righteous outrage.

 

With happiness, enthusiasm, passion etc.  If you're a people pleaser you're gonna need to lookout for the emotional blocks around attack from others that these feelings can bring is my guess.  

 

The current theory I'm working with psychologically is that people just don't know what feelings feel like.  Like I genuinely couldn't tell you what a lot of different feelings are from an experiential standpoint.  I don't really know passion, pride, joy, relaxation, contentment, profound despair, deep belonging etc.  So one of my theories for this would be you just don't know what passion feels like.  And it may be an emotional block to it, it may be "not finding the right thing", it may be the people around you, it may be your connection to yourself, I'm not 100% sure.  But I have found it is really odd we intellectually know the definitions of all these feelings but have virtually no idea what they actually feel like.  From what I can tell from my various studies I'd try finding some way to generate that feeling.  I've only been able to do it within the context of romantic relationships to generate those new feelings, other people seem able to do so with therapists or even by themselves.  I had a lot of "what the hell is this feeling?" going on when it was happening for me, the same may be true for you in terms of passion

 

Usually I toss out this exercise, I can't speak to its validity but I'd plug being passionate into this and see what you get:  https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/47567-want-to-generate-an-emotional-insight-try-this/

 

There can also be quite a difference between passion and enjoyment.  Things I like doing versus things I feel are very very important.  It may be people pleasing will continue to be your default mode, I can't really say.  I'm an odd kind of people pleaser myself and quite familiar with the burnout/resentment stuff. It could end up being your passion is helping / pleasing the other person who is passionate about their goal.  It might not even be passion which is the issue but the burnout/resentment stuff, it could be more generic "baseline happiness / how you feel about your day" kinda stuff.  I wish I was captain inspiration and had better answers for ya I'm pretty lost in on it myself.  

 

I was asking myself this same "purpose" question about a week ago and I actually got back a really strong answer which surprised me.  "My purpose is to not die".  So now I'm back into cryonics and consider that my end game strategy which has brought me some guidance as to what I'm aiming for.  Buuuut that doesn't exactly answer a lot of questions as to what to do in the meantime.   For what its worth I think purpose and passion might end up with different answers.  And even on top of that there might be all kinds of different answers for things like "what do I enjoy, how do I want to relate, how is this relationship XYZ, etc."

 

I hope this helps, I know its a bit rambly

 

I'll be happy to read any more thoughts you have on this or chat with ya about it sometime if you like

[dsayers]

I find your arguments against "life purpose" as something you were "meant" to be good at without flaw.

 

My question is, how would you call what Stefan chose to do with his life? At one point he was an entrepreneur....some people are entrepreneurs all their lives and seem that this is what they are more passionate and gives them most happiness, however this was not the case for Stefan, for him this was something that was not making him feel "complete"...is this just the result of him being an even better philosopher than entrepreneur?  What is that something about being a podcast philosopher that gives him the most happiness? And for other people it wouldn't? 

Sorry I didn't see this sooner.

 

Why do you ask? Is the implication that if somebody cannot answer those questions, we've proven that people have pre-ordained purposes?

[Jot]

Sorry I didn't see this sooner.

 

Why do you ask? Is the implication that if somebody cannot answer those questions, we've proven that people have pre-ordained purposes?

 

I was exploring the possibility of us being pre-ordained somehow to having that one only thing that can make us fullfiled and truly happy. We can define this as one's "life purpose". Of course, the way I am using "life purpose" here is not the same way mystics and religious people use "life purpose". I do not there is any sort of grander scheme and that we come into the world with a purpose to fulfill for some kind of bigger plan. 

 

By "pre-ordained" I mean both nature and nurture. I was wondering if people are not born being already inclined towards something (due to genetics). For example, there are people who always had a secret passion for writing and even though they developed their skills in completely different areas throughout their life and never put time into developing their writing skills, at some point they give up years of career and what they did up until that point and become writers. Where does this passion come from? Why  do some people have it and others do not? Is it because due to their genes they have this urge? Or is it because of some childhood factors and experiences that led them to develop that certain passion?  Or is it both? (genes and childhood)

 

Is it due to choice? As in you choose what your values are and than the purpose is just a byproduct?

 

Or is it none?!...meaning that certain passions that people have are just random. 

 

 

So to bring up Stefan's case again. He was an entrepreneur and programmer for many years and he enjoyed it and he was good at it. However, this was not the thing that could fulfil him. It turns out that the only thing he could do professionally that was truly fulfilling for him was being a philosopher broadcaster.

 

However, there a lot of people out there who were exactly where Stefan was 20 years ago in terms of their professions but unlike Stefan some of them won't drop their careers and become philosophers. They will continue advancing in their careers and they will appear to be completely fulfilled with them being successful entrepreneurs for example. So what makes this difference? Why are there people who can be fulfilled only as long as they are singers and other philosophers? I do not think it is a function of what you are good or currently good at because we can become good at thousands of things if we choose to put the work nevertheless all but one of those things would be fulfilling for us.

[Drew.]

How do you figure out what you're passionate about? How do you know what your purpose is in life?

 

Long story, short: I'm a people pleaser and I'm really good at convincing myself that what others want me to do is what I want to do. Inevitably, I end up burned out and feeling resentful or used.

 

I have no idea what I want to do with my life. Nothing sounds appealing or exciting. If I don't have someone else's passions or projects to latch onto, I just end up drifting and feeling depressed, which is where I'm at currently.

 

Has anyone else ever had this problem and overcome it? How did you do it?

 

I have always wanted to be a healer of some kind. I remember my at my elementary school graduation, I said that I wanted to be a doctor in order to help sick people get better. As I grew older, I realized that doctors provide people with prescriptions, and the medicine is what makes people feel better. So, I changed my trajectory towards pharmacy. As I learned about the modern medical industry and the focus on treatment versus curing and lifestyle changes, I felt like that wasn't the path for me.

I still wanted to help people heal, but I was adrift regarding how I would help people to achieve that. I decided that through art I could deliver powerful messages that have been a boon in my life, and hopefully help people through that means. After awhile, some of my friends started to get involved in their own counseling practices, and I thought to myself that if they could do it and be successful, then I could too. When I decided to become a therapist, it didn't really seem like I had a choice, like I don't have anything better to be doing.

 

Of course, I doubt that would be of much help to you, but this might. During this time, I was journaling and in therapy. I was learning more about myself and healing my pains. The more that I learned about myself, the more that I grew to love, respect, and admire myself. The more worth I thought that I had, the greater challenges I believed I could and was willing to face, the more success that I had, the more that it inspired greater challenges and pursuit into self-exploration. Was there anything that stood out to you when you were a child that you wanted to be or do? Why did you want to do that? Of course, I want to say that this pursuit takes time. It took me about four years of really diving into myself to discover that I was a therapist. I know that you've been working on this process for awhile now, so I will just say that it will probably blindside you in the future. Until then, why not enjoy the ride?

[dsayers]

@Ferssitar: I don't see how anything you've said lends any credence that people have purposes in life. What is the null hypothesis?

[Eh Steve]

Purpose is a misnomer that implies a weird sort of metaphysics, I think we all get that

 

In a looser definition or a different word entirely we could say that people have things they like doing, things they are naturally good at, things that fulfill them, things that make them really happy and things that are important to them.  This can be different for each individual person

 

I'm not sure what word we would use for those things.  Self-knowledge is often kind of vague as a definition.  I think at the heart of the question is figuring out how to be happy.  And understanding that while there are some objective limitations in terms of morality, the rest is often personal to each of us and can require some insight and life experience to figure out

 

As a side note.  I really like your posts Drew.  I'm glad you've found self worth and have found a way to get satisfaction in your desire to heal others.

[Drew.]

As a side note.  I really like your posts Drew.  I'm glad you've found self worth and have found a way to get satisfaction in your desire to heal others.

 

Oh, thank you Steve. As I am sure that you have guessed, this is all just a facade to impress you =]

[Jot]

@Ferssitar: I don't see how anything you've said lends any credence that people have purposes in life. What is the null hypothesis?

 

I defined having a life's purpose as: "being pre-ordained somehow to having that one only thing that can make us fulfilled and truly happy"

 

I gave the following arguments:

 

 - "there are people who always had a secret passion for writing and even though they developed their skills in completely different areas throughout their life and never put time into developing their writing skills, at some point they give up years of career and what they did up until that point and become writers."

 

 - about Stefan "He was an entrepreneur and programmer for many years and he enjoyed it and he was good at it. However, this was not the thing that could fulfil him. It turns out that the only thing he could do professionally that was truly fulfilling for him was being a philosopher broadcaster."

 

- "However, there a lot of people out there who were exactly where Stefan was 20 years ago in terms of their professions but unlike Stefan some of them won't drop their careers and become philosophers. They will continue advancing in their careers and they will appear to be completely fulfilled with them being successful entrepreneurs for example."

 

To me those look like they point towards people having a life purpose as I defined it.

 

 

I am not sure what you are asking with "what is the null hypothesis", as far as I understand this concept the null hypothesis in this case would be "people do not have life purposes"...so this is what I was trying to disprove and I tried to do that with those examples above.