yagami Posted May 27, 2016 Posted May 27, 2016 Donald Trump has agreed to debate Bernie Sanders in a debate yesterday and I think this is a brilliant move by him. I dont think Donald Trump can win in an election vs Bernie Sanders and I think he knows this also. So what he is doing is promoting Bernie Sanders by accepting this debate. It is to your advantage if you are behind in the votes to get more TV time and Donald Trump is giving that to Bernie. I believe Donald Trump wants Bernie to get his ideas out to more people and convert as many Hilary supporters to his side as possible. This way when the convention happens and Hillary gets the nomination via super delegates it will really disenfranchise people against the system. I dont think Trump has any real intention of winning the debate(although im sure he will not intentionally make a fool out of himself). Donald Trump is essentially doubling down on the fact that Hilary will win the nomination knowing that if Bernie wins the nomination the fact that he had this debate will not matter. The other part to this is that it shows how arrogant Hilary is for being unwilling to debate Bernie. It also makes Hilary like the kid no one wants to play with as she sits on the side lines. I doubt Hilary will participate as she knows Donald Trump will absolutely destroy her during a live debate. This is just a theory of course but if this is what he is thinking it's brilliant. I cant wait for this to happen. What do you think?
Libertus Posted May 27, 2016 Posted May 27, 2016 Trump will eat the old man alive. Socialists are excellent at pleasing crowds, but bad at debating, because besides from "BUT WHAT ABOUT THEEEE CHILDREEEN" they have nothing to counter. Trump's going to throw everything including the kitchen sink at Bernie. Especially that he never had a real job, can't lead and lives very well off tax payers' money, which makes him a hypocrite. Trump has won every debate he has been in, but I haven't seen Sanders go up against a skilled right wing demagogue and win - have you?
yagami Posted May 27, 2016 Author Posted May 27, 2016 I disagree. I think the arguments you made are valid but will not sway people on the left. Those are the same arguments that have always been made against people on the left. People love Bernie because he promises free stuff and I dont think anyone cares that he has no way to pay for it. In the mind of a lefty it's the principle that counts not reality. Whether Donald wins or loses the debate though isn't what I love about his decision to debate Bernie. This is another nail in the coffin against Hilary.
Libertus Posted May 27, 2016 Posted May 27, 2016 In order to gain the majority of voters, a candidate has to appeal to voters of both parties somewhat. That's why Obama ran and won not as an outright socialist but as a moderate. Your argument amounts to the majority of voters going for total socialism and I think that's not (yet) realistic. The USA still has a lot of capitalist / centrist voters who will be mobilized against Sanders if he runs. It's not (yet) France we're talking about here. But none of this has to do with a debate. Sanders has never beaten a skilled debater of the right. Trump has mopped the floor with everyone so far. It's not even a challenge, imho.
yagami Posted May 27, 2016 Author Posted May 27, 2016 Well I hope you're right. Me I am not so confident in Trump's appeal when put up against Bernie. Either way I dont think the winner of the debate matters much. It's more the message that is being sent to those that believe their vote is suppose to matter but really doesn't. Regardless of who wins the debate this is a win for Trump assuming Hilary wins the nomination. So I guess that means he really cant lose XD.
luxfelix Posted May 27, 2016 Posted May 27, 2016 It could be a good idea to use this debate to frame the key discussion points for the general election, and since both Sanders and Trump share the idea of America first (albeit different versions...?) and are running as anti-establishment candidates, it will be easier to do so without Hillary there to participate; it would turn the debate from a 1v1 to a 1v2, especially if Trump gets Sanders to participate in using the debate as an opportunity against Hillary.
youzer Posted May 27, 2016 Posted May 27, 2016 Do either candidate appeal to the middle? Isn't that going to be the deciding factor? What could a Sanders supporter hear from Trump that would change their mind? What could a Trump supporter hear from Sanders that would change their mind?
yagami Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 It could be a good idea to use this debate to frame the key discussion points for the general election, and since both Sanders and Trump share the idea of America first (albeit different versions...?) and are running as anti-establishment candidates, it will be easier to do so without Hillary there to participate; it would turn the debate from a 1v1 to a 1v2, especially if Trump gets Sanders to participate in using the debate as an opportunity against Hillary. That's a good point if Trump can get Sanders to beat up on Hilary Trump is gonna win the general. If Trump can frame the debate to show how much they have in common he is gonna win a lot more than 40% of the Sanders supporters. Also another thing Trump said this will need to be in an large arena of some sort which will be a great change from the small venues they have been using that look like they hold 200 people. We can finally get a somewhat accurate reflection of how people feel about each candidate. Albeit just a glimpse. 1
Libertus Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 Regardless of who wins the debate this is a win for Trump assuming Hilary wins the nomination. So I guess that means he really cant lose XD. Sure he can. If Trump and Bernie beat each other up so badly that they bring out each other's extreme sides, the winner is going to be Hillary, who will appear as moderate and electable. Some say that was the plan to begin with - it's not even implausible.. how else could you make voters go for another Clinton? By destroying all other options.
yagami Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 Sure he can. If Trump and Bernie beat each other up so badly that they bring out each other's extreme sides, the winner is going to be Hillary, who will appear as moderate and electable. Some say that was the plan to begin with - it's not even implausible.. how else could you make voters go for another Clinton? By destroying all other options. I seriously doubt there is a scenario where Hilary will come out the winner in this. It's one thing that people dont like your stance on something it's another when you are not trustworthy. I am mind blown as it is to see Hilary doing even well as she is. But I talked to my Dad and he said he is voting for Hilary. Although that was right after Iowa. He told me he believes that she really believes what she says. Are there really that many delusional people in the US? God I hope they are just hacking the voting machines or something. Plus she carries the stench of establishment and I honestly am not sure the value of being moderate this election. I dont see Trump as extreme but as far as normal politics are concerned he is very extreme and Bernie is on the other extreme. I feel like that has to be worth something just to be outside of the norm.
Libertus Posted May 31, 2016 Posted May 31, 2016 LEÓN KRAUZE, UNIVISION: I am sure that you know about this topic: various leftist governments, especially the populists, are in serious trouble in Latin America. The socialist model in Venezuela has the country near collapse. Argentina, also Brazil, how do you explain that failure?BERNIE SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: You are asking me questions…LEÓN KRAUZE, UNIVISION: I am sure you’re interested in that.BERNIE SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: I am very interested, but right now I’m running for President of the United States.LEÓN KRAUZE, UNIVISION: So you don’t have an opinion about the crisis in Venezuela?BERNIE SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: Of course I have an opinion, but as I said, I’m focused on my campaign.http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/05/30/bernie_sanders_isnt_interested_in_answering_questions_about_socialism_in_venezuela.html 1
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